Which combo of players would you prefer with #4 and #10.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I went with Thibs and Davis. I'm also incredibly intrigued my Davis. He just seems like a total monster. Would love to have him on the dline. I admit, I like flashy picks with first rounders like WR but hey, we have two now, so why not take a shot at this beast. 

If we're taking J. Davis though, I'd much rather go the route of pairing him with a pass rusher to take even more eyes away. You don't want to count on just Lawson being your most impactful outside rusher. If he fails, then we're back to guys like Huff and the scraps. 

If we took Davis, I swear Quinnen better have a good year and beating all his one on ones. 

 

I was just being a jerk in response to people being jerks but obviously, I'd love a bad ass WR.  What fan wouldnt?  And yeah, clearly it would help Zach Wilson but this draft doesnt offer that player in the top 10, IMO.  And you dont force the issue because of desire.  That's not prudent.  And the good news is, there are going to be very solid options that are not that big of a drop off from the 1st round guys at the top of the 2nd.  If the Jets pulled Thibs, Davis, Burks, McBride?  How is that a failure to support Z. Wilson? lmfao  Not to mention, having a better defense gives Zach more opportunities, better field position, and who knows, protecting leads, will all in turn, help support Z. Wilson!

I voted Thibs/Davis as well.  I think the Thibs stuff is draft fatigue.  I think pairing him with Davis in this draft would be the fastest way to immediately improve a historically bad defense, especially when you look at how Sale's D worked in San Fran.  The rotation of; JFM, Lawson, Thibs, Martin, Solomon w/ Davis, Q.Will, Rankins, Sheppard rotation - would be ridiculously hard to manage for any OL.  And again, the trickle down effect to Mosley and Quincy in the secondary would be immense. 

Look, I'm not going to be pissed if the Jets disagree and take G. Wilson at #10 or whoever they like, I just dont see it and I dont think any of those dudes are top 10 worthy picks IMO and I dont think the difference between the names being mentioned at the top of the 2nd are really that far from the dudes that are being mentioned as the first WR's to be taken.

 

[Warfish]

4 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I'm all in on Jordan Davis, not only do I think he provides the biggest impact...

What impact do you project Jordan Davis would have on the 2022 Jets, especially as it relates in terms of wins/losses, and overall Defensive rankings (defensive production) for the team?

Quote

....but now I want it to happen so that the "omg another DT" and the "omg they failed to support Wilson because I want someone who scores TD's" simple minded casual fan crowds cry on draft night.

That's seems pretty toxic.

Quote

I was just being a jerk in response to people being jerks but obviously, I'd love a bad ass WR.  

[Chrebetfan80]

On 4/4/2022 at 8:44 AM, JiFapono said:

Naturally as we get closer to draft day, I'm starting to waiver a little bit on my current stance of take Sauce at 4 and Johnson at 10.   While I love both players, I'm starting to wonder if that's the best possible picks to improve the Jets.  While yes, I do think you're getting the best player in the draft, Sauce and possibly the best edge in Johnson, I do wonder if it's the most optimal pairing and/or what happens if that scenario doesnt play out for the Jets?

Here are few combo's, I love that I think could drastically improve the Jets defense.  Sorry to those who wanted to see offense here.  I dont see the value, so I'm looking to improve a historically bad defense with the first 2 picks and looking at offense in rounds 2-5.

Option 1:  #4 Thibs and #10 J. Davis

The more and more I think about the presence of J. Davis on this Dline, the more and more I'm intrigued.  Think about what his presence does for Q. Will.  How many more 1 on 1 situation is he in?  Teams will have to double J. Davis.  He's unblockable. Think about what Vita Vea does for Tampa's defense and imagine possibly a more dominant presence, think about the trickle down effect this has on JFM, Lawson, Thibs and then more important, Mosley and Quincy are in attack mode vs. react mode, making more plays at or around the LOS vs. 5+ yards down field.  

Option 2: # 4 Walker and #10 J. Davis

Simple.  Same thought as above, just a different player at #4.

Option 3: # 4 Sauce and # 10 J. Davis

Say the draft falls; Hutch, Thibs, Walker - leaving the Jets with their favorite 3 edge rushers off the board.  Since I'm not taking a T at 4, this IMO, forces the Jets hand into taking Sauce, which is great.  Again, probably the best player in the draft.  However, this pushes up JJ because the top edge rushers are now limited.  So, again, I'm taking J. Davis here.

Option 4: #4 Sauce and # 10 Devin Lloyd

Top 3 edge off the board before 4.  J. Davis and JJ are off the board at 10.  The Jets are looking who in this scenario?  Hamilton? Stingley?  Ewww.  **** that.  Give me this years possible Micha Parson.  Lloyd was an absolute monster at Utah.  He could be a long term replacement for Mosley when he comes off the books.  In this scenario; maybe the Jets can find a penetrating DL player late ie; Wyatt, Carter, maybe even a player on Ojabo.

Option 5: #4 Sauce and # 10 Jermaine Johnson 

This is my current wish but I'm not 100% sure that the options above arent better fits for the Jets.  That said, I think is a very realistic scenario with how I anticipate the draft falling.  

5 is the most likely outcome provided Thibs goes top 3.  If he doesn't then its thibs at 4 and let the chips fall where they may at 10.  Thats been my gut feeling for a while now. 

It's going to be a very interesting first 10. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

What impact do you project Jordan Davis would have on the 2022 Jets, especially as it relates in terms of wins/losses, and overall Defensive rankings (defensive production) for the team?

That's seems pretty toxic.

I was just ribbing you guys back, you both deserved it for being jerks and derailing the thread.

Robert Saleh took over a bottom 5 defense in San Fran. The following year when Saleh had Bosa and Ford, he had a full compliment to deploy his rotation and they were a top 10 defense.  The key was he had a monster on the line that made everything click.  Deforest Buckner.  When Deforest Buckner left for the Colts the following season, the 49'ers dropped to middling defense.  Consequently, the Colts went from a middling defense to a top 10 defense.  I think Davis alone, definitely improves this defense but the combo of him and a pass rusher, could be what does take this team to a top 10 caliber D.

I cant predict what that means in the W category, way to many factors go into that equation but I think for the Jets overall, as a team, benefit more from Davis than they would any of the WR's and the impact he'd have on defense, would be much more than that of a rookie WR for the offense.

 

[Warfish]

41 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I was just ribbing you guys back, you both deserved it for being jerks and derailing the thread.

All other things aside, I honestly wasn't trying to "derail".  Just wanted to express my view of priorities (Simple minded tho it may be, lol).

41 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Robert Saleh took over a bottom 5 defense in San Fran. The following year when Saleh had Bosa and Ford, he had a full compliment to deploy his rotation and they were a top 10 defense.  The key was he had a monster on the line that made everything click.  Deforest Buckner.  When Deforest Buckner left for the Colts the following season, the 49'ers dropped to middling defense.  Consequently, the Colts went from a middling defense to a top 10 defense.  I think Davis alone, definitely improves this defense but the combo of him and a pass rusher, could be what does take this team to a top 10 caliber D.

I cant predict what that means in the W category, way to many factors go into that equation but I think for the Jets overall, as a team, benefit more from Davis than they would any of the WR's and the impact he'd have on defense, would be much more than that of a rookie WR for the offense.

Thanks, appreciate the more in-depth and expanded viewpoint.

[Jet_Engine1]

7 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Cool.  Well the fun things about this exercise, is there were 2 options you could have chose that didnt include Jordan Davis.  And nowhere in my post did I say he was the best player int he draft.  So instead of making a stupid post with a stupid point all with the effort to be a wise ass for no reason, just pick the option that doesnt include a DT.  

I get what you're asking, but in no way do I want a draft that takes 2 players in Defense up top.  At all. And those were the choices. The fact that Davis was in 3/5 of the selections and your comments on him led me to believe you are desperately hoping the Jets select him.

 

We have made these mistakes before, and very recently.... I just can't stomach the thought of trying to rebuild the '85 Bears in 2022 while thinking drafting 2 O Linemenand a 2nd round 5'8 receiver last year was enough to build a modern NFL offense

 

IF the Jets were to go D with a first rounder, I would want one of the edge guys.  But as of right now, while Moore has promise and we actually have some Average Starter level TEs for a change the WR corps is still pathetic imo. 

 

Like him or not,  we are stuck with Wilson for a few years. If we want him to develop and to have a competent offense,  it is imperative to select a player with #1 Receiver potential. 

 

Sorry I triggered you. I'm just tired of seeing the team make the same mistakes over and over, which triggered me. 

 Whatever. 

 

 

[Beerfish]

5.

I'll have an absolute fit if the jets draft Jordan Davis.  It would immediately tell me that Douglas has no fing clue and we are 100% totally doomed.

[JustInFudge]

37 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I get what you're asking, but in no way do I want a draft that takes 2 players in Defense up top.  At all. And those were the choices. The fact that Davis was in 3/5 of the selections and your comments on him led me to believe you are desperately hoping the Jets select him.

 

We have made these mistakes before, and very recently.... I just can't stomach the thought of trying to rebuild the '85 Bears in 2022 while thinking drafting 2 O Linemenand a 2nd round 5'8 receiver last year was enough to build a modern NFL offense

 

IF the Jets were to go D with a first rounder, I would want one of the edge guys.  But as of right now, while Moore has promise and we actually have some Average Starter level TEs for a change the WR corps is still pathetic imo. 

 

Like him or not,  we are stuck with Wilson for a few years. If we want him to develop and to have a competent offense,  it is imperative to select a player with #1 Receiver potential. 

 

Sorry I triggered you. I'm just tired of seeing the team make the same mistakes over and over, which triggered me. 

 Whatever. 

 

 

Cool, well than this thread, wasnt for you.  There was no need to come in and troll it with stupidity. 

And just because you think drafting DL was a mistake in the past, doesnt mean it a mistake this year.  Particularly in the case of Davis who is a full blown literal freak.   That's a ridiculously narrow minded approach and if that is your logic, what position should the Jets draft?  They suck at drafting, period.  That includes every position.

As I've said ad nauseum at this point, you dont force stupid decisions out of desire.  We all want an explosive offense and a sexy WR  It's fun!  They're fast and they catch ball and jump high and score TD's!!! Yay!!!.  We all want to support Wilson.  The problem is, there isnt one.  And the good news is, there is no rule that says the only way it can be done, is with a ton 10 pick. I've shared a million examples of why this is completely faulty and actually very dangerous logic. 

Whatever your face

[Jethead]

I'm still in the Edge/WR camp. But, having Gardner and Davis (Ngata) as consolation prizes is not bad. I'm hoping for Thibs/Wilson btw.

[Jethead]

Just not sure Davis has the makeup to fit the Vea/Ngata/Buckner mode. If the Jets think he's that calibre of player then 10 is a very reasonable place to pick him. I'm not sure he showed that kind of intensity at UGA.

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Just not sure Davis has the makeup to fit the Vea/Ngata/Buckner mode. If the Jets think he's that calibre of player then 10 is a very reasonable place to pick him. I'm not sure he showed that kind of intensity at UGA.

He's definitely cut from the same cloth, no doubt.  That type of size and athleticism is rare.  And while I get your concern, I think the numbers of him on the field vs. off the field for UGA says he's every bit of the impact player of those guys were in college. 

[JustInFudge]

43 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

5.

I'll have an absolute fit if the jets draft Jordan Davis.  It would immediately tell me that Douglas has no fing clue and we are 100% totally doomed.

Wha?  Why? 

[RedBeardedSavage]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I was just ribbing you guys back, you both deserved it for being jerks and derailing the thread.

Robert Saleh took over a bottom 5 defense in San Fran. The following year when Saleh had Bosa and Ford, he had a full compliment to deploy his rotation and they were a top 10 defense.  The key was he had a monster on the line that made everything click.  Deforest Buckner.  When Deforest Buckner left for the Colts the following season, the 49'ers dropped to middling defense.  Consequently, the Colts went from a middling defense to a top 10 defense.  I think Davis alone, definitely improves this defense but the combo of him and a pass rusher, could be what does take this team to a top 10 caliber D.

I cant predict what that means in the W category, way to many factors go into that equation but I think for the Jets overall, as a team, benefit more from Davis than they would any of the WR's and the impact he'd have on defense, would be much more than that of a rookie WR for the offense.

 

I'd also piggeyback on this 

• Our rush defense was terrible last year and Jordan Davis is uniquely excellent in that area
• With the hire of McDaniels in Miami and New England's recent emphasis on a power run game, that's two divisional opponents where Davis changes the game-script significantly in our favor - we're not afraid of Tua or Mac on third and 6+

And then there's just the baseline of drafting freaks. Davis' combine showed he was a freak. And admittedly, I didn't watch Georgia save for their playoff run last year, but goddam he looked dominant against Michigan and Alabama - he's not just a combine hero is the point. 

[Beerfish]

49 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Wha?  Why? 

1.  Davis is not a pass rusher.

2. Davis is more of a NT than a DT

3. Saleh plays a heavy rotation scheme, thus our #10 pick in the draft will be playing 55% of the snaps on D if he is lucky.

4. Our bizarre scheme splits the dline very wide thus negating the ability of a true run stuffer to clog.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

21 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

1.  Davis is not a pass rusher.

2. Davis is more of a NT than a DT

3. Saleh plays a heavy rotation scheme, thus our #10 pick in the draft will be playing 55% of the snaps on D if he is lucky.

4. Our bizarre scheme splits the dline very wide thus negating the ability of a true run stuffer to clog.

I think there's some validity to points 1 and 2, but it's hard to say for me if he's not able to be a one gap guy because of his athletic profile. Yes, he served more in the NT capacity in college, but usage doesn't mean he can't penetrate because he showed an ability to do so in college. He's raw from a technique perspective and I think that was apparent in his tape.

In terms of points 3 and 4 I think you're starting to let your opinion against the system affect how the Jets are realistically going to handle personnel. D-line is vital to the system and it sounds like they're going to be allocating premium resources into it, which if you're committing to this system seems pretty necessary. The usage argument never stopped the 49ers from drafting the way they do and I think they've been very clear that they are going to be emphasizing personnel on both lines.

You're obviously entitled to prefer a different system, but realistically they're running this for as long as Saleh and JD are here together so it's probably inevitable that you're going to hate the personnel moves they end up making in my opinion.

[Rhg1084]

If JD takes Thibs and Davis he just turned this Dline into a super unit. AFC east is loaded with talent right now and the only way to slow down these offenses is to put pressure on them. Having a Dline consist of Lawson, Q, J Davis, Thibs and JFM would be nearly unblockable. Would give the likes of Tua and Mac fits. Josh Allen would be running for his life. I would personally take Jordan Davis at 10 > Sauce or any of the WRs. 

[Beerfish]

20 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I think there's some validity to points 1 and 2, but it's hard to say for me if he's not able to be a one gap guy because of his athletic profile. Yes, he served more in the NT capacity in college, but usage doesn't mean he can't penetrate because he showed an ability to do so in college. He's raw from a technique perspective and I think that was apparent in his tape.

In terms of points 3 and 4 I think you're starting to let your opinion against the system affect how the Jets are realistically going to handle personnel. D-line is vital to the system and it sounds like they're going to be allocating premium resources into it, which if you're committing to this system seems pretty necessary. The usage argument never stopped the 49ers from drafting the way they do and I think they've been very clear that they are going to be emphasizing personnel on both lines.

You're obviously entitled to prefer a different system, but realistically they're running this for as long as Saleh and JD are here together so it's probably inevitable that you're going to hate the personnel moves they end up making in my opinion.

Look at the snap counts from last year, guys like Quinnen were less than 60%.  Also look at the jets Dline, unless they totally change from what they did last year, the players were split so wide from each other it made it easy for an olineman to just get in the way to make a block.

Hey Davis will be a very good player for some teams in the this league, just not us.

We have been drafting run stuffers for 15 years and it makes little difference.

 

[Rhg1084]

My perfect draft day scenario is 

4) Thibs

10) Jordan Davis 

35 and 38 packaged to move up and grab whatever WR is falling (London, Wilson, Burks, Williams, Olave) 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

1.  Davis is not a pass rusher.

2. Davis is more of a NT than a DT

3. Saleh plays a heavy rotation scheme, thus our #10 pick in the draft will be playing 55% of the snaps on D if he is lucky.

4. Our bizarre scheme splits the dline very wide thus negating the ability of a true run stuffer to clog.

1.  You're not drafting him to rush the passer.  That's why in the options I provided included pass rush options.

2.  Maybe but I dont think he's limited in the fashion you clearly do.  He'll be able to penetrate.  Absolutely.  

3.  Maybe, maybe not but a rotation is exactly that, a rotation.  Saleh's best years coaching D was when he had, Bucker, Armstead, Bosa, Ford.  It's what makes the D click.

4.  Disagree and you're looking at this in a vacuum.  It's not just about his ability to stop the run, it's how his presence on the field, improved every aspect of Georgia's D.  He makes everyone's job around him easier.  He forces a double team and free's up everyone else. 

[Jet_Engine1]

5 hours ago, JiFapono said:

 Whatever your face

[Jet_Engine1]

OK, so I voted. I voted for Gardner and Lloyd, but would be ok with Gardner and JJ.

 

A 6'3 corner that moves like a guy 5" shorter is one he'll of a Wild Card on the field, and while we are desperate for Edge, we're also equally desperate at LB. 

 

So yeah, either of those choices would be acceptable in the proposed nightmare scenario. 

 

And if Trey Burks is still on the board at 20 or later, jump up with our 2's or a 2 & 3 or whatever and grab him. London is trash, we already have 2 Tight Ends. Burks will be a monster in the Offense. A bigger Deebo. 

 

We already have small and fast, we have a big route runner, we're ok at slot. 

 

Get the Tank.

 

 

[Dwight Englewood]

Thibs and Linderbaum 

[derp]

I wanted to bump this since I didn’t think it was thread worthy but it kind of fits in here - I don’t think it’s a premium position so I’m not sure to what extent they’d do it at 4 or 10 but Devin Lloyd is not being discussed enough, similar to how we were talking about Davis not being discussed enough earlier in this thread.

Plus athlete, plus character, plus production, fits the mold of linebacker Saleh has brought in (safety to linebacker) he’s just already made the conversion instead of needing to make it in the pros, he’s a legitimate top ten guy in some rankings, linebacker play was a problem last year, and similar to Fatukasi they haven’t replaced Jarrad Davis yet. That could be a stylistic thing but he could step right in, learn from Mosley for a year, and be the guy at linebacker. Positional value and age are the questions with him. I could see him being a target if they trade down or a target if he slides and they move up with one of the 2’s.

[JustInFudge]

On 4/12/2022 at 4:08 PM, derp said:

I wanted to bump this since I didn’t think it was thread worthy but it kind of fits in here - I don’t think it’s a premium position so I’m not sure to what extent they’d do it at 4 or 10 but Devin Lloyd is not being discussed enough, similar to how we were talking about Davis not being discussed enough earlier in this thread.

Plus athlete, plus character, plus production, fits the mold of linebacker Saleh has brought in (safety to linebacker) he’s just already made the conversion instead of needing to make it in the pros, he’s a legitimate top ten guy in some rankings, linebacker play was a problem last year, and similar to Fatukasi they haven’t replaced Jarrad Davis yet. That could be a stylistic thing but he could step right in, learn from Mosley for a year, and be the guy at linebacker. Positional value and age are the questions with him. I could see him being a target if they trade down or a target if he slides and they move up with one of the 2’s.

Crazy that it was for JJ!!!