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GVR: I'm an at or above average guard in the NFL.


Barry McCockinner
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2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

No.  I think I've clearly stated my premise but I guess I'll try it this way.

Right now, GVR is an average G in the NFL.  100%.  He has played in the NFL for 8 years.  He's on his 3rd team.   If the Jets need him to step in and start 3-5 games, he could do so and hold his own.  Yes, he'd probably get blown up on a play or 2 but that's why he's not a starter.  That's why he's not a good player.  And guess what, he's not saying he is and I'm not saying he is.  He's saying he's at or above, average  and I agree.  If GVR was cut tomorrow, he'd be signed before the start of the season by another NFL team. Now when you put all that together, I'd say his career is above average and he's currently, clearly, an average NFL guard. 

The good news is, hopefully, the Jets wont have to rely on GVR for much because JD has recognized this concern with GVR and he not only addressed it mid-season by signing LDT but he addressed it majorly this offseason by signing Tomlinson. 

So what you’re saying is you and Joe Douglas think GVR is an above average starting guard. Omg just wow, man.

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Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

So what you’re saying is you and Joe Douglas think GVR is an above average starting guard. Omg just wow, man.

He's average but above average as back up if he had to start, he could but he'd be below average but if he didnt have to start at all he'd be above average to good but if played for a team that with a different scheme his average could increase to above average assuming said scheme fit his strengths which are average but good enough to be above average as a back up on average team with an average OL.

I dont think I can explain this any better, so I really hope this is the last time.

 

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3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

He's average but above average as back up if he had to start, he could but he'd be below average but if he didnt have to start at all he'd be above average to good but if played for a team that with a different scheme his average could increase to above average assuming said scheme fit his strengths which are average but good enough to be above average as a back up on average team with an average OL.

I dont think I can explain this any better, so I really hope this is the last time.

 

There’s roughly a 0 % chance GVR meant to say any of this.  He meant above average starting guard, dude.  

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34 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

No.  I think I've clearly stated my premise but I guess I'll try it this way.

Right now, GVR is an average G in the NFL.  100%.  He has played in the NFL for 8 years.  He's on his 3rd team.   If the Jets need him to step in and start 3-5 games, he could do so and hold his own.  Yes, he'd probably get blown up on a play or 2 but that's why he's not a starter.  That's why he's not a good player.  And guess what, he's not saying he is and I'm not saying he is.  He's saying he's at or above, average  and I agree.  If GVR was cut tomorrow, he'd be signed before the start of the season by another NFL team. Now when you put all that together, I'd say his career is above average and he's currently, clearly, an average NFL guard. 

The good news is, hopefully, the Jets wont have to rely on GVR for much because JD has recognized this concern with GVR and he not only addressed it mid-season by signing LDT but he addressed it majorly this offseason by signing Tomlinson. 

Honestly, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.  I do not think GVR is an average NFL Guard.  I do not believe he should be on an NFL roster - at this point in his career.

I do believe, he's had an above average NFL career - as you noted, just staying in the league this long is clearly an a testament to that.

But no point is beating a dead horse here...

And yes, completely agree on the good news.  I think it's unlikely he'll on the Jets opening day roster.

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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

He's average but above average as back up if he had to start, he could but he'd be below average but if he didnt have to start at all he'd be above average to good but if played for a team that with a different scheme his average could increase to above average assuming said scheme fit his strengths which are average but good enough to be above average as a back up on average team with an average OL.

I dont think I can explain this any better, so I really hope this is the last time.

 

So you think he's like barely a notch below a HOF player in his prime. You, GVR himself, and Joe Douglas (who added a probowl guard as a smokescreen, I reckon). :) 

In all seriousness, it seems pretty plain to me what Douglas did, and I posted it at the time. He saw plenty of good/playoff/championship teams with not merely at least one weak link on the OL, but at least one low-priced veteran starter and/or lower-round pick, and it didn't sink the whole team. So he put together a competition of a mid/low-round draft pick and a few lower-ranked starters (but starters nonetheless) to compete to be kind of the dipsh**s, with the idea/hope that one would emerge and he could then fill a guard slot (or two) without burning big cap room or upper 1st round draft picks. 

GVR has been a starting guard for years. If that was so easy then surely 4 backups and camp fodder shots in the dark would've robbed him of his roster spot - and before that, his starting spot - year after year.

I don't think much of him myself, but one doesn't have to think much of a former starter who's now relegated to backup behind an upper 1st rounder + a probowl FA. The idea is itself laughable, that everyone here laughing at his comment is some expert on all NFL backup guards on every team enough to make an assessment that he's in the bottom-55 or bottom 35 or whatever. Especially when most of these backups never see the field because, absent mid-game injury, OL are on or off the field positions not on and off positions. 

It's doubly laughable when he and others have been chiefly blocking for two young QBs who've over-held the ball in the pocket like they think getting pressured & sacked is worth points. Not every play, of course, but enough to expose those weaker starters like himself. If you put him on a line with the other end of the spectrum at QB (e.g. Brady) who gets rid of it zip-zip before the pressure reaches him? Well he still wouldn't be an above-average starter but you'd think he was a far shrewder acquisition by a GM who astutely knows where to sink limited team resources. Blocking for one who holds it for like a second longer (without being a super-scrambler like some of the recent passers with RB skills), with weaker targets who take longer to get open, will expose most of these linemen. 

The false equivalence not reconciled is that being a below average starter at his position doesn't therefore equal below-average NFL player at his position.

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