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Defensive Line / Edge Prospects 2022


THE BARON
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Flame me for starting this thread if you care to, but I was compelled to express this now, given that there is continuing indication that the Jets may draft a defensive line / edge prospect with their # 4 pick.  The two prospects now being spoken about most in connection with the Jets are Kayvon Thibodeaux and Teavon Walker.

That would be a monumental mistake.  

ALL of the defensive line prospects including the aforementioned AND Aidan Hutchinson are absolutely underwhelming.  Thibodeaux may even be a bust.

Ickey, Sauce, Hamilton & London would all be MUCH better picks than Thibs or Walker.  Even at number #4, I'd rather have them take London or Hamilton over ANY of the defensive line prospects in this draft.

Even Chris Olave or Garrett Wilson would be a more valuable pick at number #4 vs. the defensive line stiffs in this draft.

I LOVE the FA moves that JD has made this year, but if he takes one of the defensive lineman / edge prospects at #4 and passes up on valuable players like Sauce or Ickey, I'm going to drive my head through a wall.  

 

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36 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Edge rushers are overrated and suspect and the crop is thinner than people think.

Oline is good early but really drops off.

Wr' has some depth but is not overwhelming

A few nice CB's.

This is a depressing draft talent wise.  (all my opinions of course)

Agree.  Though, I think even though there are no amazing prospects, there are quite a few solid prospects.  I think a lot of production is going to come out of the first three rounds of this draft.  Just few if any elite game changers. 

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18 minutes ago, PepPep said:

If you give no reasoning behind your opinion you are discrediting yourself. 

Fine, this is what you think. But can you back it up with any analysis? Or you just wanted to start a thread for the sake of starting a thread?

GIF by Saturday Night Live

Eye test while watching highlights, reading reviews, looking at stats.  

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18 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Eye test while watching highlights, reading reviews, looking at stats.  

I agree that Ekwonu and Gardner are particularly unique top end talents who could very well end up being the best players in this draft. I'm actually going to throw Devin Lloyd in there, who doesn't seem to get enough love because he's 'stiff' lol, but will probably end up being one of the best LBs in the NFL within 2-3 years. 

However, I also know that Thibs, Walker, JJ and even Karl. are guys who (warts and all) can develop into high impact 10+ sack a season NFL edge rushers (if not Myles Garrett, Von Miller, HOF types) and that is worth a top 10 pick, even if its the #4 overall. 

Again, it will depend on who the Jets love. do they love Ekwonu and Gardner over one of those other pass rushers? Do they think Walker is too perfect of a fit to pass up? 

*Side note: I completely disagree about London. Don't know why he gets so much love. I would not touch him with a top 10 pick. That's JMHO. 

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5 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

You mean the baron will not give a dissertation on the subject? Oh my

Thibs - Horrible against the run.  Injury issues.  Character issues.  If anything, a third down player.

Travon Walker- No initial burst.  Plays like a stiff mummy.  Can't close in on and catch the QB or RB in the backfield even when running free.   If anything more of an end in a two gap 34.  Not the one gap 43 guy the Jets would like in that defense. 

Either of these picks would be monumental stupidity with Sauce, Ickey, London or Hamilton on the board. 

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1 minute ago, PepPep said:

I agree that Ekwonu and Gardner are particularly unique top end talents who could very well end up being the best players in this draft. I'm actually going to throw Devin Lloyd in there, who doesn't seem to get enough love because he's 'stiff' lol, but will probably end up being one of the best LBs in the NFL within 2-3 years. 

However, I also know that Thibs, Walker, JJ and even Karl. are guys who (warts and all) can develop into high impact 10+ NFL edge rushers (if not Myles Garrett, Von Miller, HOF types) and that is worth a top 10 pick, even if its the #4 overall. 

Again, it will depend on who the Jets love. do they love Ekwonu and Gardner over one of those other pass rushers? Do they think Walker is too perfect of a fit to pass up? 

*Side note: I completely disagree about London. Don't know why he gets so much love. I would not touch him with a top 10 pick. That's JMHO. 

I dig.  Great post.  Could all be exactly as you say.  Only time tells, but at the moment, without hindsight, Thibs and Walker look like landmines to avoid regardless of who's left on the board. 

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12 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I agree that Ekwonu and Gardner are particularly unique top end talents who could very well end up being the best players in this draft. I'm actually going to throw Devin Lloyd in there, who doesn't seem to get enough love because he's 'stiff' lol, but will probably end up being one of the best LBs in the NFL within 2-3 years. 

However, I also know that Thibs, Walker, JJ and even Karl. are guys who (warts and all) can develop into high impact 10+ sack a season NFL edge rushers (if not Myles Garrett, Von Miller, HOF types) and that is worth a top 10 pick, even if its the #4 overall. 

Again, it will depend on who the Jets love. do they love Ekwonu and Gardner over one of those other pass rushers? Do they think Walker is too perfect of a fit to pass up? 

*Side note: I completely disagree about London. Don't know why he gets so much love. I would not touch him with a top 10 pick. That's JMHO. 

Also wanted to add.   With my wanting Ickey, I am presuming from the position that Becton is not going to work out.  I could be wrong and Ickey would not be a smart pick with Becton on the roster.  We can think and reason, but we dont know what the Jets coaches/brass knows at this point.  From what I cans see/hear/read from my chair, I dont think Becton is going to be a player.  Again.  I could be WAY wrong.  

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8 minutes ago, slats said:

If he takes a safety at #4, I’ll drive your head thru a wall. 

Ha !  

Understand fully and appreciate the sentiment.  Considering how I rate Thibs and Walker, I'd rather have the ND S over either of those two, even thought I'd rather have Ickey or Sauce at # 4 as the ideal.

Also... Suppose they take safety Hamilton and they trade him to Seattle for three # 1 draft picks ???

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2 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Flame me for starting this thread if you care to, but I was compelled to express this now, given that there is continuing indication that the Jets may draft a defensive line / edge prospect with their # 4 pick.  The two prospects now being spoken about most in connection with the Jets are Kayvon Thibodeaux and Teavon Walker.

That would be a monumental mistake.  

ALL of the defensive line prospects including the aforementioned AND Aidan Hutchinson are absolutely underwhelming.  Thibodeaux may even be a bust.

Ickey, Sauce, Hamilton & London would all be MUCH better picks than Thibs or Walker.  Even at number #4, I'd rather have them take London or Hamilton over ANY of the defensive line prospects in this draft.

Even Chris Olave or Garrett Wilson would be a more valuable pick at number #4 vs. the defensive line stiffs in this draft.

I LOVE the FA moves that JD has made this year, but if he takes one of the defensive lineman / edge prospects at #4 and passes up on valuable players like Sauce or Ickey, I'm going to drive my head through a wall.  

 

 

At this point, I think the best players in the Draft (regardless of position) are Hutchinson, Ikwonu, Sauce, Hamilton and Thibodeaux.  I don't see any WR as a Top 5 player in this Draft overall.

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Edge rushers are overrated and suspect and the crop is thinner than people think.

Oline is good early but really drops off.

Wr' has some depth but is not overwhelming

A few nice CB's.

This is a depressing draft talent wise.  (all my opinions of course)

This draft is loaded with DBs. Absolutely loaded.

Safeties

Kyle Hamilton, ND 

Lewis Cine, Georgia 

Jaquan Brisker, PSU

Daxton Hill, Michigan 

Jerby Joesph, Illinois 

Nick Cross, Maryland

Bryan Cook, Cincinnati 

Markquese Bell, Florida A&M

CBs

Trent McDuffie 

Sauce Gardner 

Derek Stingley Jr.

Andrew Booth Jr.

Kalir Elam

Kyler Gordon 

Jalon Pitre

Roger McCreary 

This is the main reason why 2nd and 3rd tier DBs (mostly safeties) like Mathieu and Terrel Edwards are still on the market. 

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10 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

This draft is loaded with DBs. Absolutely loaded.

Safeties

Kyle Hamilton, ND 

Lewis Cine, Georgia 

Jaquan Brisker, PSU

Daxton Hill, Michigan 

Jerby Joesph, Illinois 

Nick Cross, Maryland

Bryan Cook, Cincinnati 

Markquese Bell, Florida A&M

CBs

Trent McDuffie 

Sauce Gardner 

Derek Stingley Jr.

Andrew Booth Jr.

Kalir Elam

Kyler Gordon 

Jalon Pitre

Roger McCreary 

This is the main reason why 2nd and 3rd tier DBs (mostly safeties) like Mathieu and Terrel Edwards are still on the market. 

If Rex was running the draft, he'd come away with 7 db's 

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37 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

This draft is loaded with DBs. Absolutely loaded.

Safeties

Kyle Hamilton, ND 

Lewis Cine, Georgia 

Jaquan Brisker, PSU

Daxton Hill, Michigan 

Jerby Joesph, Illinois 

Nick Cross, Maryland

Bryan Cook, Cincinnati 

Markquese Bell, Florida A&M

CBs

Trent McDuffie 

Sauce Gardner 

Derek Stingley Jr.

Andrew Booth Jr.

Kalir Elam

Kyler Gordon 

Jalon Pitre

Roger McCreary 

This is the main reason why 2nd and 3rd tier DBs (mostly safeties) like Mathieu and Terrel Edwards are still on the market. 

Loaded with names, how many of these guys are vastly better than other years?

There are vet safeties every year that show up and go cheap.  DBs are devalued in this league these days even more than previously.

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1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

Thibs - Horrible against the run.  Injury issues.  Character issues.  If anything, a third down player.

Travon Walker- No initial burst.  Plays like a stiff mummy.  Can't close in on and catch the QB or RB in the backfield even when running free.   If anything more of an end in a two gap 34.  Not the one gap 43 guy the Jets would like in that defense. 

Either of these picks would be monumental stupidity with Sauce, Ickey, London or Hamilton on the board. 

Please post one scouting report, agreeing with your assessment of Walker. 

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7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Loaded with names, how many of these guys are vastly better than other years?

There are vet safeties every year that show up and go cheap.  DBs are devalued in this league these days even more than previously.

Not sure I agree with this.  Safety and slot/nickel CB I agree but top outside CB's make similar money to top interior DL and aren't that far behind Left Tackles.  The rule changes have hurt, but GM's are still paying big bucks for these guys...

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4 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Not sure I agree with this.  Safety and slot/nickel CB I agree but top outside CB's make similar money to top interior DL and aren't that far behind Left Tackles.  The rule changes have hurt, but GM's are still paying big bucks for these guys...

Money wise sure but in helping you actually win games?  The best CB in the game got roasted in the playoffs last year.  The salary thing is still a left over from a previous era. 

Now this league goes in cycles as the people that run it are clueless re rules and enforcement so CBs might once again be super important.

It's still nice to have good to great CBs don;t get me wrong but rule sets and offensive systems have really cut down on how important they are.

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3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Edge rushers are overrated and suspect and the crop is thinner than people think.

Oline is good early but really drops off.

Wr' has some depth but is not overwhelming

A few nice CB's.

This is a depressing draft talent wise.  (all my opinions of course)

I can see some people complaining if JD takes OL, but as you have stated, the talent at the top this year for the positions we really need can be had in the middle or even bottom of the 1st. I won't be upset if JD chooses Ekwonu, or Cross, because I believe both could be gone at 10. I also won't be upset if he trades down if possible and gathers a few more 2nd and 3rd round because I believe we need more than just 4 players.

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5 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

An elite run defender, who is raw as an edge rusher. That's not a stay away from Walker scouting report. USA describes him as a dominant Georgia defender, and a top 10 pick. Do better.

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3 minutes ago, genot said:

An elite run defender, who is raw as an edge rusher. That's not a stay away from Walker scouting report. USA describes him as a dominant Georgia defender, and a top 10 pick. Do better.

My eyes tell me is not a good edge rusher.  He looks more like a mummy than an edge rusher.  You wanted reports, you got them.  And one of them is damn near exactly what I described him as. 

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40 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

My eyes tell me is not a good edge rusher.  He looks more like a mummy than an edge rusher.  You wanted reports, you got them.  And one of them is damn near exactly what I described him as. 

Lol. And this mummy, who runs 4.51 40 at 272lbs is a sure fire top 5 pick. Did you watch the championship game????

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19 minutes ago, genot said:

Lol. And this mummy, who runs 4.51 40 at 272lbs is a sure fire top 5 pick. Did you watch the championship game????

The Jets don't need a run stuffing *mummy*.   They need an elite 3 down edge rusher.  There is no such thing to be had in this draft.  Hence, draft Sauce or Ickey at #4

 

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12 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

The Jets don't need a run stuffing *mummy*.   They need an elite 3 down edge rusher.  There is no such thing to be had in this draft.  Hence, draft Sauce or Ickey at #4

 

Mummy's don't test the way Walker did. I asked you if you watched the championship game. If you did, you would have noticed Walker beating Neal on a regular basis and forcing errant throws. Is he raw as a pass rusher. Yes. Does he have the athletic skills to be an i.mpact rusher at the next level. He'll yea. How is his work ethic. Does he love football. Will he put the work in to learn what it takes to be an impact rusher as a DE, in the NFL. I say yes. 

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13 minutes ago, genot said:

Mummy's don't test the way Walker did. I asked you if you watched the championship game. If you did, you would have noticed Walker beating Neal on a regular basis and forcing errant throws. Is he raw as a pass rusher. Yes. Does he have the athletic skills to be an i.mpact rusher at the next level. He'll yea. How is his work ethic. Does he love football. Will he put the work in to learn what it takes to be an impact rusher as a DE, in the NFL. I say yes. 

"

From one of my links as requested by you

"Below-average get-off playing inside or outside.

Very limited bend in his lower half.

Works with elevated pad level and a lack of fluidity.

Dull pursuit burst in space.

Not threatening as an edge-to-edge rusher.

Struggled to displace Alabama OT Evan Neal's outside hand with force.

Lethargic getting from move to move.

Will need scheme help as NFL rusher."

I DONT WANT THE MUMMY.  

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1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

"

From one of my links as requested by you

"Below-average get-off playing inside or outside.

Very limited bend in his lower half.

Works with elevated pad level and a lack of fluidity.

Dull pursuit burst in space.

Not threatening as an edge-to-edge rusher.

Struggled to displace Alabama OT Evan Neal's outside hand with force.

Lethargic getting from move to move.

Will need scheme help as NFL rusher."

I DONT WANT THE MUMMY.  

Yea. That is the only report with that assessment.  Guess what.  He scouted one game. His report sucks. Maybe you should mail that report to all 32 NFL teams. I promise every single one have a high 1st rd grade on Walker.

 

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1 hour ago, genot said:

Yea. That is the only report with that assessment.  Guess what.  He scouted one game. His report sucks. Maybe you should mail that report to all 32 NFL teams. I promise every single one have a high 1st rd grade on Walker.

 

No problem, Mrs Walker.  

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4 hours ago, THE BARON said:

"

From one of my links as requested by you

"Below-average get-off playing inside or outside.

Very limited bend in his lower half.

Works with elevated pad level and a lack of fluidity.

Dull pursuit burst in space.

Not threatening as an edge-to-edge rusher.

Struggled to displace Alabama OT Evan Neal's outside hand with force.

Lethargic getting from move to move.

Will need scheme help as NFL rusher."

I DONT WANT THE MUMMY.  

scooby doo walk GIF

Oh, you're getting the Mummy...

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9 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Edge rushers are overrated and suspect and the crop is thinner than people think.

Oline is good early but really drops off.

Wr' has some depth but is not overwhelming

A few nice CB's.

This is a depressing draft talent wise.  (all my opinions of course)

I honestly think Gardner and Hutchinson are the only true Top 5 maybe even Top 10 picks in this entire draft. Some players like Travon Walker are getting pushed up beyond all reason.

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Remember when the experts nailed 

mayfield/Rosen/Darnold/Allen/Jackson?

nobody has any idea what these guys will be. 
 

if they did the bust rate in the top  10 picks would be 5%

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Draft is tough.  We want edge and wide receiver in top two picks and expect immediate pro bowl type contributions.  But it does feel like there are no sure things at 4 or 10, since weak top end talent and no QBs at the top of draft pushing quality non QBs down.  Usually you want pro bowl potential in top 10, but the range of potential outcomes for edge and WR might be solid player in Top 10, jag or bust.  Ironically there will likely be pro bowl RBs, LBs in this draft taken outside of the top 10 or even 1st round.

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