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If Hutch and Thibs go #1 and #2, then if no WR is worthy of #4, then the pick should be CB Sauce


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Is this the 10th thread with the same theme?  I would not expect the Jets to draft a CB at 4.  Most NFL teams would not draft a CB at 4. The Jets, running a SF style defense, when SF has not drafted a CB early in many years, are not likely to draft one in the 1st round, let alone at 4.  Throw in the DJ Reed signing and I just don't see it (or want it).  Take Walker or a WR or a OL. 

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21 hours ago, doitny said:

WR and Edge are the top 2 position that we need. we cant mess that up cause of "Worthiness".

you do realize that drafting Sause will bench our best CB from last year in Hall right? cause Reed just signed for 11 mil a year so he isnt going to sit. and MC2 played the slot well all year.

and Hill is too good to bench so when you have to trade one of the top players on your team to make room for a draft pick then thats a bad move.

Yes, until we have one of our starting CBs go down for an extended period and the next in line is a big drop off. That is what I have seen ruin many of Jet seasons.

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23 hours ago, UnknownJetFan said:

If Hutch and Thibs go #1 and #2(Based on Lions link below them looking at Thibs extensively), then if no WR is worthy of #4, then the pick should be CB Sauce since we really have to have the CB position as good as possible to stop all the great WRs and QBs throwing to them in the Division and Conference. The next best Edge after those top 2 may also not be worthy of the #4 pick especially if Sauce is ranked much higher. We can then take BAP of either Edge or WR at #10. This all assumes we do not trade down with either pick, or trade away #10 for a WR.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/07/dan-campbell-kayvon-thibodeaux-pretty-special-on-tape/

Excellent post UJF. I keep going back and forth with various prospects as to who the Jets should choose. Then I see another video clip or read a comment and Im like "Yeah, that makes sense too." . As good as Gardner may be,  I just dont see Douglas/Saleh going CB. Saleh's defense is more focused on the DLine rather than CB. Factoring in that we just signed a starting caliber CB in Reed, Bryce Hall has developed nicely and would be a real solid CB 2, and Michael Carter II had an excellent rookie season at slot, and Echols to sub in and out looks pretty solid to me. If we draft Gardner at #4 he has to start, no? Who would be your odd man out? In this scenario it would seem to be Bryce Hall.  If Hutch and Thibs go #1 and #2 and we cannot trade out then I may start to have to seriously think of taking Travon Walker at #4.  Walker gives us a versatile DE/Edge that Saleh/Douglass seem to like ( see John Franklin Myers) and then either Karlaftis/Jermain Johnson, or trade down at 10. I can see a nice rotation of John Franklin Myers, Quinnen, and Travon Walker on the inside. Being that Saleh rotates his D Line often the  scenario of  Carl Lawson, Huff and Karlaftis/Jermain Johnson starts to make more sense for me also (in this moment anyway before I watch the next video that changes my mind again) 

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How's this for a Bitonti style take:

JD takes a tackle at 4. First because he's obsessed with the line. And also because it's way easier and cheaper to draft Fants replacement then to extend him. 

The jd Jets never find the bag to reward players. JFM and Ryan griffin are the only ones. He's not going give Fant 15th per he's just not 

 

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7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

How's this for a Bitonti style take:

JD takes a tackle at 4. First because he's obsessed with the line. And also because it's way easier and cheaper to draft Fants replacement then to extend him. 

The jd Jets never find the bag to reward players. JFM and Ryan griffin are the only ones. He's not going give Fant 15th per he's just not 

 

How many players in the past 5 years have you wanted to reward?

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59 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

How many players in the past 5 years have you wanted to reward?

Does Jason Myers sneak under the 5 year mark? The Jets legit have lost games due to not being able to have reliable PK

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2 hours ago, GangGreened said:

Lol I truly think some of you like his nickname more than the actual player 

 

What are your Sauces for this bold claim?  Hopefully not an old Manish Mehta sauce.  

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45 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Does Jason Myers sneak under the 5 year mark? The Jets legit have lost games due to not being able to have reliable PK

A kicker, man? If that’s it, not sure I agree with your perspective. 

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16 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

A kicker, man? If that’s it, not sure I agree with your perspective. 

i guess it depends on whether one believes winning games is important, or if being a tank commander for high draft picks is more important

JD's treatment of the PK position is possibly the worst in franchise history  - honest - think about it. Kaare Vedvik legit lost that buffalo opening day game, by himself. He missed an XP and FG and they lost by four. 

Alex Kessman was signed before the Eagles game and he was benched/fired before halftime. Ive never in my decades of watching football have seen a HC lose faith in a PK that quickly 

in between these two names there have been like 6 other terrible PK, one worse than the next - Greg Zuerlein by the way is assed out (he missed 22 kicks in the last 2 seasons for Dallas) and Eddy Piniero has no range. 

most of the time the Jets are trying to lose or tank out so it doesn't matter but winning teams have good special teams.  

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Does Jason Myers sneak under the 5 year mark? The Jets legit have lost games due to not being able to have reliable PK

Do you follow the NFL or just the Jets?  Myers has been a below average kicker his entire except for two seasons - the one year with the Jets and 2020 with Seattle. He did not deserve or perform to the level of the contract Seattle gave him.  Bad example.  Is there really any former Jets player with another team that anyone can honestly say the Jets made a mistake in letting him go?  Demario Davis is the only one that comes to mind.  

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30 minutes ago, bitonti said:

i guess it depends on whether one believes winning games is important, or if being a tank commander for high draft picks is more important

JD's treatment of the PK position is possibly the worst in franchise history  - honest - think about it. Kaare Vedvik legit lost that buffalo opening day game, by himself. He missed an XP and FG and they lost by four. 

Alex Kessman was signed before the Eagles game and he was benched/fired before halftime. Ive never in my decades of watching football have seen a HC lose faith in a PK that quickly 

in between these two names there have been like 6 other terrible PK, one worse than the next - Greg Zuerlein by the way is assed out (he missed 22 kicks in the last 2 seasons for Dallas) and Eddy Piniero has no range. 

most of the time the Jets are trying to lose or tank out so it doesn't matter but winning teams have good special teams.  

And these games that were lost in 2020 and 2021 cost the Jets what exactly?  A kicker is extremely important when a team is competitive. Claiming the Jets lost a few games in the past two seasons because of bad FG kicking means that instead of winning 2 and 4 games respectively, the Jets would have won 4 and 6 instead?  Whoop de damn do.  When kicking costs the Jets a playoff spot or game, you have a legitimate gripe.  Otherwise it's a complaint that is made for the sake of complaining.  

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On 4/7/2022 at 2:38 PM, UnknownJetFan said:

If Hutch and Thibs go #1 and #2(Based on Lions link below them looking at Thibs extensively), then if no WR is worthy of #4, then the pick should be CB Sauce since we really have to have the CB position as good as possible to stop all the great WRs and QBs throwing to them in the Division and Conference. The next best Edge after those top 2 may also not be worthy of the #4 pick especially if Sauce is ranked much higher. We can then take BAP of either Edge or WR at #10. This all assumes we do not trade down with either pick, or trade away #10 for a WR.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/07/dan-campbell-kayvon-thibodeaux-pretty-special-on-tape/

Yes.  Sauce at 4 and London at 10

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4 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

And these games that were lost in 2020 and 2021 cost the Jets what exactly?  A kicker is extremely important when a team is competitive. Claiming the Jets lost a few games in the past two seasons because of bad FG kicking means that instead of winning 2 and 4 games respectively, the Jets would have won 4 and 6 instead?  Whoop de damn do.  When kicking costs the Jets a playoff spot or game, you have a legitimate gripe.  Otherwise it's a complaint that is made for the sake of complaining.  

This is endless rebuild talk. 

Bull.

every win is a step toward a winning program 

every loss reinforces the bad habit of losing

Losing players expect to lose. Winning players expect to win. 

It's not something the players can just turn on and off.

I have a feeling we'll find that out this year, the hard way. They can't just be like: "Ok it's winning time, so start winning"

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12 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Do you follow the NFL or just the Jets?  Myers has been a below average kicker his entire except for two seasons - the one year with the Jets and 2020 with Seattle. He did not deserve or perform to the level of the contract Seattle gave him. 

Myers may not have lived up to his contract but the guys the jets have been employing aren't worth 1 penny 

 

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

This is endless rebuild talk. 

Bull.

every win is a step toward a winning program 

every loss reinforces the bad habit of losing

Losing players expect to lose. Winning players expect to win. 

It's not something the players can just turn on and off.

I have a feeling we'll find that out this year, the hard way. They can't just be like: "Ok it's winning time, so start winning"

Good try.  The Jets did not make a mistake by letting Myers go.  Douglas was trying to find a young kicker who could be here for 10-15 years. It didn't work out. Now we have two veterans competing in camp.  

This argument doesn't hold true in the NFL.  Every season is unique.  Late season wins don't carry over into next year.  Why do 50% of playoff teams fail to make the playoffs the following season ?  Haven't those team established a winning culture?  Winning 5-6 games instead of 2-4 means absolutely nothing.  

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11 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Not a nightmare at all, as much as I like Sauce.

Take Ickey at 4 and London or Hamilton at 10

Two top 10 picks and the team gets kinda sorta maybe better?

not acceptable.  There has to big big improvement 

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3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Myers may not have lived up to his contract but the guys the jets have been employing aren't worth 1 penny 

 

But that wasn't the point you were making. You were arguing that the Jets don't sign their own players to extension or second contracts and when called to give an example, you  went with Myers.  So now you pivot, or try to pivot to "JD can't pick kickers."  

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Just now, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

But that wasn't the point you were making. You were arguing that the Jets don't sign their own players to extension or second contracts and when called to give an example, you  went with Myers.  So now you pivot, or try to pivot to "JD can't pick kickers."  

Well JD can’t pick kickers, so that’s a good move.  
 

Amendola having a long and successful career elsewhere wouldn’t surprise me btw.  Moving on from him for guys who couldn’t kick and extra point was fun though.  

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On 4/7/2022 at 12:38 PM, UnknownJetFan said:

If Hutch and Thibs go #1 and #2(Based on Lions link below them looking at Thibs extensively), then if no WR is worthy of #4, then the pick should be CB Sauce since we really have to have the CB position as good as possible to stop all the great WRs and QBs throwing to them in the Division and Conference. The next best Edge after those top 2 may also not be worthy of the #4 pick especially if Sauce is ranked much higher. We can then take BAP of either Edge or WR at #10. This all assumes we do not trade down with either pick, or trade away #10 for a WR.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/07/dan-campbell-kayvon-thibodeaux-pretty-special-on-tape/

4. JJ II

10. G Wilson

Both have seemingly good character, the requisite athleticism, play positions worthy of large investments and have very high floors. 

I understand the Sauce love, and he might be a better prospect than both of these guys, but he's just a cornerback and I don't think corners are premium anymore. After the Reed signing, I'd rather just keep throwing day 3 picks at CB and seeing what sticks. 

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Does Jason Myers sneak under the 5 year mark? The Jets legit have lost games due to not being able to have reliable PK

Games? We lost regimes over it. If Vedvik was a semi competent kicker we beat the bills week 1 in 2019 and it’s a different season

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27 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

But that wasn't the point you were making. You were arguing that the Jets don't sign their own players to extension or second contracts and when called to give an example, you  went with Myers.  So now you pivot, or try to pivot to "JD can't pick kickers."  

it's not a pivot. They should have signed Myers at his price. I'd rather the Jets sign a good player and pay a little extra for him than spent vet minimum on 7 guys over 3 years, and still not have a kicker. I'm OK with the slight overpay when it directly translates into wins. 

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30 minutes ago, Dwight Englewood said:

Games? We lost regimes over it. If Vedvik was a semi competent kicker we beat the bills week 1 in 2019 and it’s a different season

Kaare Vedvik has been on five NFL teams practice squads since then and is now trying to make the Saskatchewan Roughriders

 

 

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5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's not a pivot. They should have signed Myers at his price. I'd rather the Jets sign a good player and pay a little extra for him than spent vet minimum on 7 guys over 3 years, and still not have a kicker. I'm OK with the slight overpay when it directly translates into wins. 

And around and around we go.  Myers is not a good kicker. He is a below average kicker.  NFL kickers on average convert about 85% of FGs and 94% of XPs.  Myers has been in the NFL for 7 years.  He has never averaged 94 % of XPs and he was below average on FGs for all but 2 of his 7 NFL seasons. One of those "outlying" seasons was 2018 with the Jets.  He was putrid for Jacksonville in 2017 and was bad again in 2019 after he left the Jets (when they smartly didn't make him the highest paid kicker in the NFL).  He had another terrible season in 2021.  He is not a good player.  He is not an average player. He is a tremendously inconsistent  and below average kicker.  So your original point that the Jets should have paid to keep him is just plain wrong.  And it wasn't a slight overpay.  He became the highest paid kicker in the NFL in 2019 after a career year with the Jets .  

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1 minute ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

And around and around we go.  Myers is not a good kicker. He is a below average kicker.  NFL kickers on average convert about 85% of FGs and 94% of XPs.  Myers has been in the NFL for 7 years.  He has never averaged 94 % of XPs and he was below average on FGs for all but 2 of his 7 NFL seasons. One of those "outlying" seasons was 2018 with the Jets.  He was putrid for Jacksonville in 2017 and was bad again in 2019 after he left the Jets (when they smartly didn't make him the highest paid kicker in the NFL).  He had another terrible season in 2021.  He is not a good player.  He is not an average player. He is a tremendously inconsistent  and below average kicker.  So your original point that the Jets should have paid to keep him is just plain wrong.  And it wasn't a slight overpay.  He became the highest paid kicker in the NFL in 2019 after a career year with the Jets .  

We have to agree to disagree. Jason Myers is a very good NFL kicker. He's above average due to his clutchness, he hits game winning field goals every season. He's got a long of 61. 

Is he the best PK? no he's not Justin Tucker. Did he have a rough start to 2021? yes but then he bounced back. The dude hit 37 straight field goals for Seattle before his slump in 2021

the Jets found this Pro Bowl PK and let him go for money reasons. Meanwhile the Jets are literally losing games directly because of Alex Kessman and Kaare Vedvik. Yes they should have paid him to win games. 

I'm probably not going to argue this all day with you because your initial assumption of Jason Myers sucks is flat out wrong. We can't have a discussion when I say the sky is blue and you say it's red.  

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24 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

no impressive edge guys in this draft and the can get a wr at 10 or 2nd round

Like the jets I haven’t had my draft meeting yet. Not all the information is in. 
 

I’ll see what my scouts say 

 

The 2 positions I gave were for 4 and 10 btw 

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