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If Hutch and Thibs go #1 and #2, then if no WR is worthy of #4, then the pick should be CB Sauce


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6 minutes ago, Larz said:

Like the jets I haven’t had my draft meeting yet. Not all the information is in. 
 

I’ll see what my scouts say 

 

The 2 positions I gave were for 4 and 10 btw 

Again.   ANY of the edge rushers that are being spoken about as potential 1st round picks are ones to stay clear of.  Thibs would not even be on my draft board until round 3

Also.   I dont believe any of the WRs in this draft are worth a number 4 pick, but there are many that are going to be available for the Jets in round 2 and 3.  And those may very well work out better than London or Olave. 

 

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4 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Again.   ANY of the edge rushers that are being spoken about as potential 1st round picks are ones to stay clear of.  Thibs would not even be on my draft board until round 3

Also.   I dont believe any of the WRs in this draft are worth a number 4 pick, but there are many that are going to be available for the Jets in round 2 and 3.  And those may very well work out better than London or Olave. 

 

That’s your opinion 

your suggested picks just on position alone are a disaster. Doesn’t even show a basic understanding of the systems the  jets run and the current roster. 

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

We have to agree to disagree. Jason Myers is a very good NFL kicker. He's above average due to his clutchness, he hits game winning field goals every season. He's got a long of 61. 

Is he the best PK? no he's not Justin Tucker. Did he have a rough start to 2021? yes but then he bounced back. The dude hit 37 straight field goals for Seattle before his slump in 2021

the Jets found this Pro Bowl PK and let him go for money reasons. Meanwhile the Jets are literally losing games directly because of Alex Kessman and Kaare Vedvik. Yes they should have paid him to win games. 

I'm probably not going to argue this all day with you because your initial assumption of Jason Myers sucks is flat out wrong. We can't have a discussion when I say the sky is blue and you say it's red.  

Last year Myers had one of the worst FG% among starters.

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

This is endless rebuild talk. 

Bull.

every win is a step toward a winning program 

every loss reinforces the bad habit of losing

Losing players expect to lose. Winning players expect to win. 

It's not something the players can just turn on and off.

I have a feeling we'll find that out this year, the hard way. They can't just be like: "Ok it's winning time, so start winning"

The Rams in 2017 had like 12 starters return from 2016. They went from 4-12 to 11-5.

The Jets will probably have around the same amount of returning starters, more or less. 
 

If the Jets aren’t bringing back players or rewarding them as you say, what makes you think that it’s the same team? You’re contradicting yourself. 

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1 hour ago, Larz said:

That’s your opinion 

your suggested picks just on position alone are a disaster. Doesn’t even show a basic understanding of the systems the  jets run and the current roster. 

I dont agree.   Sauce and Hamilton would be an ideal for the System Saleh runs.  Ickey would also be ideal as all NFL teams need an elite left tackle and Becton may very well be a dead end.  If Becton actually pans out, you can always put him on the right side.

There are no super stars in this draft.  What you need to make a priority of is character and intangibles.  You never go wrong drafting on those priorities if there are no flat-out stars.  

The disaster would be pissing away a first round pick on an edge rusher prospect that sucks because your team does not already have one.  Wishing your way into filling a positional need on your roster is the best way to blow the draft out of your ass.

 

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On 4/7/2022 at 1:47 PM, Jet Nut said:

I'd draft Sauce even if Thibs is sitting there.

We need a corner and Sauce could be a R Sherman for us next to Hall.   

Then you can go EDGE or WR with the 10th pick

I’d be fine with Sauce if we go edge at 10 and go get a WR by getting back into the first. 

Hall will be fighting with Carter for slot or used as depth if you draft Sauce. DJ Reed is the current #1 corner on this team. 

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1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

I dont agree.   Sauce and Hamilton would be an ideal for the System Saleh runs.  Ickey would also be ideal as all NFL teams need an elite left tackle and Becton may very well be a dead end.  If Becton actually pans out, you can always put him on the right side.

There are no super stars in this draft.  What you need to make a priority of is character and intangibles.  You never go wrong drafting on those priorities if there are no flat-out stars.  

The disaster would be pissing away a first round pick on an edge rusher prospect that sucks because your team does not already have one.  Wishing your way into filling a positional need on your roster is the best way to blow the draft out of your ass.

 


we’re assuming sauce is gone  you suggested Hamilton  

In this defense you could have the legion of boom, but without pass rush it’s toast. 
 

ulbrich said “if the QB gets to his 2nd, 3rd read, this defense struggles “

Hamilton over a pass rusher just isn’t smart 

The main knock on Ickey is pass pro sets and technique so yeah let’s take him at 4. 
 

im done lol.  You think thibs is a 3rd rounder but want ickey and Hamilton 

are you trolling?

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5 minutes ago, Larz said:


we’re assuming sauce is gone  you suggested Hamilton  

In this defense you could have the legion of boom, but without pass rush it’s toast. 
 

ulbrich said “if the QB gets to his 2nd, 3rd read, this defense struggles “

Hamilton over a pass rusher just isn’t smart 

The main knock on Ickey is pass pro sets and technique so yeah let’s take him at 4. 
 

im done lol.  You think thibs is a 3rd rounder but want ickey and Hamilton 

are you trolling?

Nope.  Hamilton. Ickey and or London will not be busts.  Thibs may very well be one.  I want the Jets to draft a player that will contribute for a decade.  You want them to waste a first round pick on a probable bust.  Are you trolling ?

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On 4/7/2022 at 5:05 PM, BornJetsFan1983 said:

What Cb Hall or Reed do you feel is not up to the job? necessitating the need for sauce? trying to understand your thought process here? is it that or maybe you just think we need depth? what is it, why would you spend the 4th pick on a CB?

Hall. Without a doubt. He was a great find for where he was drafted, and can provide great depth, but in a division as stacked with QB / receiving talent, you need both a strong pass rush and ability to cover.

Too lazy to pull some numbers, I'll just quote this article, which sums up my thoughts so well:

Man vs. zone coverage

The Jets are a zone-heavy defense, but it’s in man coverage where Hall has been at his best.

Hall’s man coverage grade of 75.8 ranks sixth-best out of 106 qualified cornerbacks at PFF (95th percentile). His zone coverage grade of 62.7 ranks only 73rd out of 106 corners (31st percentile).

Hall has been just as good at playing the ball in both forms of coverage – he has the fifth-best forced incompletion rate in man coverage (25.0%) and second-best in zone coverage (21.2%) – but the problem is that he has given up four touchdown passes in zone coverage, tied for the position lead with Bashaud Breeland (who was just released by Minnesota).
 

Big plays allowed and created

The main blemish on Hall’s resume is the disparity between the number of big plays he gives up and the number of big plays he makes.

Hall has been credited with allowing five touchdowns this year, tied for the eighth-most among cornerbacks. He is tied for fourth in most touchdowns allowed without recording an interception.

In addition to having only one interception across 108 career targets, Hall also does not have any forced fumbles or fumble recoveries in his career. So, while his overall coverage consistency is excellent, he is a net-negative in the big-play department, giving up a decent chunk of scores without producing the takeaways to make up for it.
 

So, is Hall a “No. 1” cornerback?

At the very least, Hall is proven that he is undoubtedly a quality starting outside corner in the NFL. That’s for certain.

But should the Jets pencil in Hall as their long-term top cornerback and completely ignore looking for an even better player at the position?

As of right now, probably not.

Hall remains in the “very good” range right now – he’s not quite “great” or “elite” just yet. To get there, he’ll need to sharpen his run defense, lessen his touchdown susceptibility, and increase his takeaway production.

Considering Hall’s current limitations, if the Jets think they can get their hands on a cornerback who does have an elite level of talent, be it through free agency, a trade, or the draft, they should certainly go for it.

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40 minutes ago, GangGreen Machine said:

I’d be fine with Sauce if we go edge at 10 and go get a WR by getting back into the first. 

Hall will be fighting with Carter for slot or used as depth if you draft Sauce. DJ Reed is the current #1 corner on this team. 

Not so sure Reed is the the #1, its close though but Hall might have more room to develop.  

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2 hours ago, xJayce said:

Hall. Without a doubt. He was a great find for where he was drafted, and can provide great depth, but in a division as stacked with QB / receiving talent, you need both a strong pass rush and ability to cover.

Too lazy to pull some numbers, I'll just quote this article, which sums up my thoughts so well:

Man vs. zone coverage

The Jets are a zone-heavy defense, but it’s in man coverage where Hall has been at his best.

Hall’s man coverage grade of 75.8 ranks sixth-best out of 106 qualified cornerbacks at PFF (95th percentile). His zone coverage grade of 62.7 ranks only 73rd out of 106 corners (31st percentile).

Hall has been just as good at playing the ball in both forms of coverage – he has the fifth-best forced incompletion rate in man coverage (25.0%) and second-best in zone coverage (21.2%) – but the problem is that he has given up four touchdown passes in zone coverage, tied for the position lead with Bashaud Breeland (who was just released by Minnesota).
 

Big plays allowed and created

The main blemish on Hall’s resume is the disparity between the number of big plays he gives up and the number of big plays he makes.

Hall has been credited with allowing five touchdowns this year, tied for the eighth-most among cornerbacks. He is tied for fourth in most touchdowns allowed without recording an interception.

In addition to having only one interception across 108 career targets, Hall also does not have any forced fumbles or fumble recoveries in his career. So, while his overall coverage consistency is excellent, he is a net-negative in the big-play department, giving up a decent chunk of scores without producing the takeaways to make up for it.
 

So, is Hall a “No. 1” cornerback?

At the very least, Hall is proven that he is undoubtedly a quality starting outside corner in the NFL. That’s for certain.

But should the Jets pencil in Hall as their long-term top cornerback and completely ignore looking for an even better player at the position?

As of right now, probably not.

Hall remains in the “very good” range right now – he’s not quite “great” or “elite” just yet. To get there, he’ll need to sharpen his run defense, lessen his touchdown susceptibility, and increase his takeaway production.

Considering Hall’s current limitations, if the Jets think they can get their hands on a cornerback who does have an elite level of talent, be it through free agency, a trade, or the draft, they should certainly go for it.

My very simple response is as a 1 he did much better than should be expected from him and after that as a cb2 if he played as last year would be more than serviceable, but I'm under the impression he got better and learned and think he is an average CB2 making him perfect opposite Reed

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If the pass rusher we draft get less than 5 sacks in his first year he will be labeled a bust and we will scream about it.  

CB, Edge, Wide Receiver, Tackle are all premium positions that can impact the game and help generate wins.

I have an opinion and preference but ultimately am hoping whoever we pick doesn’t bust.  Every Jets fan will be ecstatic if our first two picks are at premium positions, play well, and turn into great players.  

Saleh and Douglas are joined at the hip, have a solid process, and with luck, that hopefully delivers two premium players, at premium positions.  

if either of the first two picks don’t hit there will likely be a riot but it’s the nature of the beast… we’re not the only franchise with a terrible list of first round busts although since we’re Jets fanatics it’s feels that way. 

If it doesn’t work out, hopefully it won’t be bc we took a non-premium position or DT in the first round.  The biggest first round decision was made last year at QB.

Trust Saleh and JD… and root for it to work out

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BTW - if Saleh and JD select a CB at 4 over an available edge, that means Saleh thinks that Sauce will add more to his scheme vs the edges available at 4.  

I’m going to go out on a limb and say Saleh should know what’s best for his scheme.  The pick at 4 could help settle the internet debate on whether his current  scheme/ plan for the Jets could benefit from a high end CB.

Can’t wait!

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On 4/7/2022 at 5:09 PM, Hex said:

And Wilson and London tear their ACLs one day before the draft?

That might be okay. Jets really struggle getting the right receiver (although EM looks like a stud) They have a really bad track record in recent years. Although Wilson looks like a no-brainer. Williams is not far behind (he's worth a shot late first, early second--if he lasts that long).

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11 hours ago, Gramsci said:

Suspicious if Deebo would be as successful without Shanahan. He has a very specific role in that offense. 

This trade would scare me. 

Similar offense. Stud player who has got up to speed with the NFL game. He's going to be really good anywhere. Unique talent.

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We have a defensive system that is not predicated on Press Man Coverage, it thrives off pressure from the front 4...

This type of Cover 3 defense we play is notorious for plugging in mid round picks who can get the job done

We have a CB in Bryce Hall that proved he can be a starter

We just gave a long term deal to DJ Reed who can play outside CB 

We are extremely thin at DL, Lawson will hopefully back but no clue what he has left coming off of an Achilles tear 

We will likely have at least 2 worthy Pass Rush prospects to choose from when we're at pick 4, not to mention an OLinemen as well....

 

 

Don't understand the logic from some of yall but hey LOL......

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2 hours ago, Barton said:

Drafting Sauce does not move the needle at all. Jets need to grab blue chip talent for the offense, for once. 

Disagree there... QBs were able to completely dissect the secondary all day long. Getting someone who can take away a receiver, create some turn-overs, help get off the filed would be huge. Not always playing from behind would be a big lift as well.

Couple different ways to get there

  • Improve coverage
  • Improve pass rush

This team needs talent on both sides of the ball. They'll take whomever they feel provides the most value. That may very well be a CB with the 4th overall pick (especially if their preferred options at pass rush are off the board).
 

Taking Oline does nothing for the team next year (maybe in 2 years if they move on from Fant (if he plays well, there's no need to move on from him, extend or franchise him, and saying you need to draft a tackle at 4 in case Becton gets hurt is a terrible waste of an opportunity to improve your team).

Taking WR at 4 when equivalent talent can be found all the way into the 2nd round is not a good allocation of resources (ie - it's been stated on multiple occasions there is not a single WR that has really distinguished themselves over the rest of the class this year, such as a Ja'Marr Chase did last year); there's depth in the WR group in this draft class, but not that high end talent. WR may help move the needle, but it may do so from the second round.


 

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If Hutch and Thibs go #1 and #2(Based on Lions link below them looking at Thibs extensively), then if no WR is worthy of #4, then the pick should be CB Sauce since we really have to have the CB position as good as possible to stop all the great WRs and QBs throwing to them in the Division and Conference. The next best Edge after those top 2 may also not be worthy of the #4 pick especially if Sauce is ranked much higher. We can then take BAP of either Edge or WR at #10. This all assumes we do not trade down with either pick, or trade away #10 for a WR.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/07/dan-campbell-kayvon-thibodeaux-pretty-special-on-tape/
Trade back or Ekwonu
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On 4/8/2022 at 1:25 PM, Gramsci said:

Suspicious if Deebo would be as successful without Shanahan. He has a very specific role in that offense. 

This trade would scare me. 

My concern would be more about injury risk.  I realize that's a risk to any player but the cost of acquiring and paying Deebo would make it extra worrisome.  

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22 hours ago, xJayce said:

Taking WR at 4 when equivalent talent can be found all the way into the 2nd round is not a good allocation of resources (ie - it's been stated on multiple occasions there is not a single WR that has really distinguished themselves over the rest of the class this year, such as a Ja'Marr Chase did last year); there's depth in the WR group in this draft class, but not that high end talent. WR may help move the needle, but it may do so from the second round.

There could easily be a huge run on WRs in the 1st round though.  So how much will be available to us in the 2nd round?

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2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

There could easily be a huge run on WRs in the 1st round though.  So how much will be available to us in the 2nd round?

My question is, is taking the best wr in the draft (let’s assume wilson) at 4, even if he’s #8 on your board, is this more important for wilson and getting wins than taking an edge at 4 or cb?  I’m not necessarily advocating going wr at 4, I’m posing the question that maybe wr at 4 and edge at 10 is better than pulling a mccagnan and sticking to draft boards and going defense 2x.

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18 hours ago, Dunnie said:
On 4/7/2022 at 2:38 PM, UnknownJetFan said:
If Hutch and Thibs go #1 and #2(Based on Lions link below them looking at Thibs extensively), then if no WR is worthy of #4, then the pick should be CB Sauce since we really have to have the CB position as good as possible to stop all the great WRs and QBs throwing to them in the Division and Conference. The next best Edge after those top 2 may also not be worthy of the #4 pick especially if Sauce is ranked much higher. We can then take BAP of either Edge or WR at #10. This all assumes we do not trade down with either pick, or trade away #10 for a WR.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/07/dan-campbell-kayvon-thibodeaux-pretty-special-on-tape/

Trade back or Ekwonu

This!

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4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

There could easily be a huge run on WRs in the 1st round though.  So how much will be available to us in the 2nd round?

You're asking me to quantify your hypothetical? :) They have to go with the value they see in their board. But taking a lesser prospect because there's a need is questionable team building. You end up with a lot of mediocrity. I'm not saying we should just take whomever is BPA at that point, but should factor in how they see talent a positional value.

My thoughts are KT > Sauce > JJ > Best wr

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14 hours ago, xJayce said:

You're asking me to quantify your hypothetical? :) They have to go with the value they see in their board. But taking a lesser prospect because there's a need is questionable team building. You end up with a lot of mediocrity. I'm not saying we should just take whomever is BPA at that point, but should factor in how they see talent a positional value.

My thoughts are KT > Sauce > JJ > Best wr

Nope.  I was asking a rhetorical question.

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