Pauline: Jets thirsty for Trevor Penning at 10.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

He is the one who reported last year the Jets culture was still toxic under Saleh.  Still no evidence of this

[varjet]

JD loves Penning.  He is who you picked if we traded down, like with the Saints for multiple mid-1st round picks.

Listening to the PFF Mock Draft this morning, which made sense, ALL of the decent WRs will be gone in the first round.  There will not be much at 35.  The Jets need to leave the 1st round with a WR that fits this system.   If they are picking Penning at 10, that means they don't like the EDGEs at 4 and don't want to spend a 4 on Sauce.  

The Steelers should be trading their first and second rounds this year and first next year for Malik Willis at 4.  

[sec143dmf]

29 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

What could you get for Becton right now though?

I doubt a first.  Maybe a 2nd, likely a 3rd.  Or something like a 3rd and 5th.

If you're going to draft a T at 10, then you should probably just pull the trigger on a deal like that.

Lucky to get a 6th round pick at this point. 

[Jet_Engine1]

26 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Trevor Penning eats football

And EVERYBODY went to his birthday party.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

What is the evidence?  The Jets stunk last year and injuries were still a huge issue .. no doubt about that but doesn’t mean the culture was toxic. 

You selectively ignored his Free Agency gems.

I will bet Pauline himself $5k that this doesn’t come to fruition.  It makes no sense with the holes the Jets have on the roster.

 

[Barry McCockinner]

I'm going to be sick if we take a T in the first round. I am big on o-line but we don't need to have a first round pick insurance policy at T. 

[derp]

 

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Just not seeing how spreading info about possibly using pick 10 on the fourth OT is beneficial to the Jets, though.

I mean, third OT right? But there’s a tackle drop off after Penning, a lot of tackle needs across the league, and Seattle needs more picks and trades down a lot on draft day. If a team wants a tackle and feels they need to come up ahead of the Jets to get him, better non tackles slip to pick 10. And with the Giants almost certainly taking one and Carolina firmly in play as well there’s a chance  there’s a run on tackles and a team (Chargers?) gets antsy and wants to move up. Don’t think the teams after the Jets are threats for them to be a team to trade with, but maybe. If you don’t want a tackle is probably good to have four tackles go top nine.

All that said there are so many unknowns in the tackle position right now there are a bunch of different perspectives Douglas could have that you can logic yourself into it almost making sense…but just almost. After Morgan Moses was adequate at RT for $5M and with two guys who have played LT well in the NFL, there’s an argument for flipping Becton if they don’t want him…but then trade down in the second round and take Abraham Lucas or something. They don’t need a top ten pick at right tackle, even if that’s what the Giants are about to do.

I do think Douglas gets so many deals to work because he picks up the phone, and I doubt he’s hanging up when teams ask about Becton. But I don’t think two years of rookie deal are worth spending a higher pick than you get on an unknown and penciling him in as a starter, certainly don’t think they get higher than ten for Becton, probably important to have Fant extended if you’re moving him, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if they do something like the Lucas pick anyway to push him and as insurance but trading him without a steady replacement and trading him for less than you spend on his replacement are both pretty wild ideas. Just seem too far out there for Douglas. More like run your own Madden franchise stuff. Or things you’d do if you didn’t have a second year QB who struggles against pressure. It’d be very different if they signed a steady veteran “backup” right tackle. Wanting four tackles off the board before ten makes more sense to me.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, varjet said:

JD loves Penning.  He is who you picked if we traded down, like with the Saints for multiple mid-1st round picks.

Listening to the PFF Mock Draft this morning, which made sense, ALL of the decent WRs will be gone in the first round.  There will not be much at 35.  The Jets need to leave the 1st round with a WR that fits this system.   If they are picking Penning at 10, that means they don't like the EDGEs at 4 and don't want to spend a 4 on Sauce.  

The Steelers should be trading their first and second rounds this year and first next year for Malik Willis at 4.  

Travon Walker at 4 and Penning at 10 would be Saleh’s dream draft. Yes sir/no sir guys whom he never has to worry about or deal with.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Or Becton as part of a package for DK?

Was gonna say this. If we’re trading Becton, use him as a piece in a big trade like that. Make it worthwhile. 
 

Get DK. Get Penning. Get Thibs. Get NASTY

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

What is the evidence?  The Jets stunk last year and injuries were still a huge issue .. no doubt about that but doesn’t mean the culture was toxic. 

You selectively ignored his Free Agency gems.

I will bet Pauline himself $5k that this doesn’t come to fruition.  It makes no sense with the holes the Jets have on the roster.

 

The Jets absolutely tried to sign Jensen and they tried to sign ZaDarius Smith both in 2019 and 2022.

[maury77]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Travon Walker at 4 and Penning at 10 would be Saleh’s dream draft. Yes sir/no sir guys whom he never has to worry about or deal with.

That draft would cause Douglas to get fired, so it’s kinda my dream draft as well in a very perverse way

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, derp said:

 

I mean, third OT right? But there’s a tackle drop off after Penning, a lot of tackle needs across the league, and Seattle needs more picks and trades down a lot on draft day. If a team wants a tackle and feels they need to come up ahead of the Jets to get him, better non tackles slip to pick 10. And with the Giants almost certainly taking one and Carolina firmly in play as well there’s a chance  there’s a run on tackles and a team (Chargers?) gets antsy and wants to move up. Don’t think the teams after the Jets are threats for them to be a team to trade with, but maybe. If you don’t want a tackle is probably good to have four tackles go top nine.

All that said there are so many unknowns in the tackle position right now there are a bunch of different perspectives Douglas could have that you can logic yourself into it almost making sense…but just almost. After Morgan Moses was adequate at RT for $5M and with two guys who have played LT well in the NFL, there’s an argument for flipping Becton if they don’t want him…but then trade down in the second round and take Abraham Lucas or something. They don’t need a top ten pick at right tackle, even if that’s what the Giants are about to do.

I do think Douglas gets so many deals to work because he picks up the phone, and I doubt he’s hanging up when teams ask about Becton. But I don’t think two years of rookie deal are worth spending a higher pick than you get on an unknown and penciling him in as a starter, certainly don’t think they get higher than ten for Becton, probably important to have Fant extended if you’re moving him, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if they do something like the Lucas pick anyway to push him and as insurance but trading him without a steady replacement and trading him for less than you spend on his replacement are both pretty wild ideas. Just seem too far out there for Douglas. More like run your own Madden franchise stuff. Or things you’d do if you didn’t have a second year QB who struggles against pressure. It’d be very different if they signed a steady veteran “backup” right tackle. Wanting four tackles off the board before ten makes more sense to me.

I keep seeing Cross at OT3. I guess the Jets could try to get someone to bite on a trade up for Penning, but who would that be for? To push Stingley down the board? My thought is that Penning showed up to the Senior Bowl, looked like a professional right tackle, and showed up to the interview with a lunch pail in hand. 100% the type of character guy that Saleh has prioritized.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I keep seeing Cross at OT3. I guess the Jets could try to get someone to bite on a trade up for Penning, but who would that be for? To push Stingley down the board? My thought is that Penning showed up to the Senior Bowl, looked like a professional right tackle, and showed up to the interview with a lunch pail in hand. 100% the type of character guy that Saleh has prioritized.

I think Jets had Cross as OT1 for them. Idk if thats changed. 

[slimjasi]

13 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I'm going to be sick if we take a T in the first round. I am big on o-line but we don't need to have a first round pick insurance policy at T. 

Agreed. 

I will be pretty disappointed if we take a tackle with one of our first two picks. 

I have no problem adding another developmental OT prospect later in the draft, but it's just not a big enough need for us. You can make an argument OL is the strength of the team right now. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Hughes made an interesting comment on his podcast a few weeks ago when answering a question about possibly acquiring JC Tretter. He said the Jets were looking to get “nastier” up front and Douglas and/or Saleh felt like they had some soft guys playing along the OL. Not that Becton has the rep of being soft, but the one thing you read about Penning is that he’s a savage. Feels like they should try to flip Becton for picks and stop hoping he matures, especially if you’re in a position to replace him with a high-level player who’s ready to go to war with you.

The bold would have been before they picked up Tomlinson, though, no? Then again, they've also kept GVR on and re-signed backups McDermott & Feeney, so it'd be odd if the "soft" moniker is referring to any of those 3. Plus they also were allegedly making efforts to re-sign LDT, too, but it's possible he turned down the offer because it was only to be a backup (where they'd then cut GVR). 

Plus while he was needed far more than expected, Moses was merely fine (I'd have been ok bringing him back as a backup, but not as the starter again). I don't know that Moses is soft, though. More like he lacks the finesse & quickness to handle edge rushers, but he was a solid run blocker, and (like with LDT) it's doubtful they'd have wanted him back in a starting capacity so it's unsurprising if they were holding off making any offers unless he couldn't land a starting role. I'd prefer him at $5MM to McDermott at $2MM, though it may not have been that simple: these guys want to start.

Referring to Becton as soft hardly needs elaborating after missing 16+ games last year (and the tapping out thing from before Saleh got here).

However...while Fant took right to playing LT, in terms of not surrendering sacks, when it comes to run blocking I have this image of Fant trying to catch a butterfly on his finger. Despite his size, the last thing he is is a nasty/punishing run blocker. Much to the surprise - and/or dismay - of most here, I think in the event they do pick up a new tackle he's as likely to be the odd man out than Becton, who's also 7 years younger, locked up for longer, has far higher upside as an all-around performer, and for $5.5MM in new money for the next 2 seasons combined (vs. Fant's $28MM for the next 2 seasons, if he's tagged next year). 

It could be telling that Fant hasn't been extended yet (plus Fant's recent tweet - I forget the exact wording but iirc it was something like What's a brother gotta do? - might indicate he's aware he might not be in their future plans, or that they're not willing to commit to him longer term until after seeing what happens in the draft). Plus while he is coming off a career year, too many GMs fall into that trap of expecting an outlier season to become the new baseline going forward (not to mention he's been no ironman himself), and getting stuck with a contract they'd soon love to rescind. Saleh stated publicly Becton wasn't just going to get the LT job handed back to him. All of us (understandably) assumed that meant competition with Fant, and it probably did mean just that back when he said it, but it might still hold true coming up but with a different player competing with him for the starting LT job.

I've no idea what Fant's trade value is, though. He does have this year at very cheap for a starting veteran LT, and then can be tagged next year (OTC estimates it'll be just under $18MM), without a commitment needed until after this season's over. He also turns just 30 this summer (not old for an OLman). 

My own strong preference is to leave this situation alone for the year so they can focus on other positions up top, plus just sign better veteran tackle depth than McDermott/Edoga, which is very much still out there, and draft a developmental OT in a mid-round pick. I still wouldn't be shocked with any of the 3 possibilities (drafting a rd 1 tackle and moving on from Fant; drafting a rd 1 tackle and moving on from Becton; not drafting a tackle until day 3 and sticking with Fant/Becton for this year). 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

The Jets absolutely tried to sign Jensen and they tried to sign ZaDarius Smith both in 2019 and 2022.

How do you know this?  I’ve followed free agency closely and didn’t see any meaningful or credible 2022 reports on this.  Just BS conjecture.

ZaDarius Smith was sitting there for the taking for a good number of days and wasn’t crazy crazy expensive.

I’d love to see the reporting if you have.

Listen, if we didn’t have the holes we have I think this strategy might make sense.  But given our holes and the investment in Becton, I just don’t think it makes sense.  JD has proven to be pretty logical to date so this would be a move that seems to be a poor use of draft capital and a very early acknowledgement of defeat in Becton.  I mean the guy is still holding out hope for Perine, A Davis, the 3rd round Edge from Florida (his name escapes me), Mims, …

Lastly, I still love your posts and think you are funny as sh*te!

 

 

[IndianaJet]

38 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’ve read and heard in a few places that the Jets staff was deeply in love with Penning at the Senior Bowl

That's true...I've read and heard that too...about Penning and a number of guys at the Senior Bowl.  But I haven't heard anything that then turns that love of the player into a pick at #10.

This could just be Pauline putting some pieces together and coming up with his own version of a rumor.

 

[Grandy]

PENNING10

[Jet Blast]

24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Travon Walker at 4 and Penning at 10 would be Saleh’s dream draft. Yes sir/no sir guys whom he never has to worry about or deal with.

I'd sign up for that IF we have already traded for a young, talented #1 WR.

 

[FootballLove]

JD is a trench warfare general. 2 of our top 4 picks will be in the trenches. We are far from done there. And to me, Fant is the guy to be traded, not Becton. Fant is on his last year and hasn't signed an extension (yet). But keeping Fant for 2022 while a rookie T like Penning (or Ekwona or Neal) learns is not terrible. If the great D prospects are gone at 4 (Hutch, Jermaine Johnson, Sauce) fixing his Oline for the next decade has to be very appealing to a GM like JD. Only way he waits until 10 to address his oline crisis is if one of those good D guys are still there at 4, especially Hutch or Jermaine. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

As a reminder to all, huge needs that need to be solved over a third tackle:

1. Edge

2. WR

3. LB— does anyone remember the LB play from last year .. plus we lost Cashman’s 5 snaps per year.  Need to prepare to replace Mosley post 2022 (and in doing so save $16m+ on next year’s cap hit)

4. DT to stop the run.  We supposedly lost out on Jones from SF as a replacement for Fatukasi

5. Possibly Safety although I personally would put insurance OT above this

 

[Augustiniak]

25 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Travon Walker at 4 and Penning at 10 would be Saleh’s dream draft. Yes sir/no sir guys whom he never has to worry about or deal with.

Jermaine johnson at 4.  

[Sperm Edwards]

35 minutes ago, Drums said:

I think it can be insurance on Becton and Fant. Becton might not work out, in which case, he slides in. On the other hand, Becton could work out, and then Fant walks in FA and he slides in there. Fant has to duplicate his good year last year too, that’s a hope not a guarantee (and I’ve been a Fant supporter since day 1). 

But a top 10 pick just for depth/insurance? Sign a veteran FA for depth at $5MM (give or take a few), and draft an additional starter in the top 10. There are still veteran tackles left who were productive, recent starters who can play either tackle position.

Absent a rookie getting injured unexpectedly, a top 10 pick on the OL must be a full time starter immediately on day 1, or you've badly over-drafted him. 

Any of the three - Fant, Becton, or a top 10 pick - is too much investment to stash any one of these healthy, starting LTs as mere depth/insurance. It's not like you can use them situationally as they're brought along, like a WR or any position on defense.

If they take a tackle in the top 10 it'd have to come along with flipping Fant or Becton and then still should be signing a better veteran than McDermott/Edoga for depth.

I'd hate using a high 1st round pick on merely OL depth. Hate, hate, hate.  

[NIGHT STALKER]

57 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

As hard as I am on Becton, I'm nervous to let him go.  His ceiling is Ogden.  

And his basement is Tony Mandarich.

[derp]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I keep seeing Cross at OT3. I guess the Jets could try to get someone to bite on a trade up for Penning, but who would that be for? To push Stingley down the board? My thought is that Penning showed up to the Senior Bowl, looked like a professional right tackle, and showed up to the interview with a lunch pail in hand. 100% the type of character guy that Saleh has prioritized.

Ah I misinterpreted and thought you meant OT4 on the Jets.

Four tackles in the top nine, you’d need two non Gardner/Hutchinson/Walker/Thibodeaux prospects to go in that group with them to get one of the guys we’re talking about at four to be there at ten. It’s not that weird. Couple QB’s, Hamilton, Stingley, Wilson. Or maybe they want Jordan Davis. Or to ensure one of the WR’s slips. There are a lot of potential avenues.

The character can mesh all they want and the asset management component of it will still never make sense. They might have loved the punter’s character too but they’re not taking him at ten. For all of Douglas’ faults he hasn’t really done anything crazy or reckless, and all of his first round picks have walked into serious roles. Even the proposed Hill trade didn’t require giving up a first round pick. The tenth pick on a backup at a non premium position would be wild, and having a guy who played FCS football replace a guy who’s played tackle at the NFL level capably to protect a quarterback we know struggles with pressure would also be wild. Especially if you’re getting less in return for the known commodity.

Theres maybe a we aren’t extending George Fant so Penning’s the LT of the future and we can get a first round pick from the Saints/Chargers for Becton so we’ll do that scenario but that’s requires several leaps and an insurance policy if Penning isn’t ready - keeping in mind that while some people appreciated Penning’s intensity at the Senior Bowl he lost reps - that they don’t have. It’s too complex of a scenario to play out IMO, and I think that fans are buying into it is indicative of why it’s a good smokescreen that maybe gets a team to bite. I don’t doubt he wants a tackle, I do doubt he does it at ten. But I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again.

I guess also kind of to your point about why Williams is risky for Douglas because of the ACL, Penning at ten is the riskiest prospect in the draft for Douglas. You’ve got a bad team with a young quarterback and you’re either a) redshirting the tenth overall pick or b) giving up on the guy you took 11th overall two years ago to bank on a guy jumping from FCS football to the NFL to protect the guy you spent the second overall pick on last year enough that he looks well. There’s a Penning gets Wilson killed scenario that gets Douglas very fired that no other pick has - setting aside the chance Becton has a resurgence in his new home. Very different if not for the young QB or if Becton was expiring soon or if you’re getting a better asset for Becton than you’re spending on Penning, but none of those is the case.

[section314]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Hughes made an interesting comment on his podcast a few weeks ago when answering a question about possibly acquiring JC Tretter. He said the Jets were looking to get “nastier” up front and Douglas and/or Saleh felt like they had some soft guys playing along the OL. Not that Becton has the rep of being soft, but the one thing you read about Penning is that he’s a savage. Feels like they should try to flip Becton for picks and stop hoping he matures, especially if you’re in a position to replace him with a high-level player who’s ready to go to war with you.

Agreed. Let some other team be in charge of giving him his participation trophies.

[Barton]

Yup been thinking this for a while.

Take a WR at 4 and Penning at 10.

Trade Becton for a 2nd and 3rd rd pick and call it a day. 

[Asymmetrical]

I remember reading some pushback to the Penning Senior Bowl hype, can't remember where exactly, that all the nastiness gushing was the result of him basically tackling guys after the whistle and it LOOKED super impressive because they weren't throwing flags in drills. No idea if it was true or means anything but it does remind me of the type of thing that would trick post 2010 Rex teams. 

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I certainly can see Penning fitting the Jets wish list.

I think both Douglas and Saleh want a roster full of sh*t kickers.  Penning certainly fits that.  

I just personally can’t swallow taking a backup at 10.  Then again, maybe they are confident they could move Becton.

They can also keep Becton as depth.  He's on a rookie deal.  

Yes...It SUCKS we are considering another top 10 pick for OL.  That said, I would rather admit early that an improvement on Becton can happen rather than play him for five years and watch Wilson decline because of it.

[docdhc]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Hughes made an interesting comment on his podcast a few weeks ago when answering a question about possibly acquiring JC Tretter. He said the Jets were looking to get “nastier” up front and Douglas and/or Saleh felt like they had some soft guys playing along the OL. Not that Becton has the rep of being soft, but the one thing you read about Penning is that he’s a savage. Feels like they should try to flip Becton for picks and stop hoping he matures, especially if you’re in a position to replace him with a high-level player who’s ready to go to war with you.

This has to be pure speculation. JD or Saleh would never tell a reporter that their OL guys are soft. They will give Becton at least this year to prove himself. He has too much potential to cut bait now. 

[CanadaSteve]

29 minutes ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

And his basement is Tony Mandarich.

And there is ZERO proof of that.  Attitude wise, drug-use wise....or anything else. 

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Hughes made an interesting comment on his podcast a few weeks ago when answering a question about possibly acquiring JC Tretter. He said the Jets were looking to get “nastier” up front and Douglas and/or Saleh felt like they had some soft guys playing along the OL. Not that Becton has the rep of being soft, but the one thing you read about Penning is that he’s a savage. Feels like they should try to flip Becton for picks and stop hoping he matures, especially if you’re in a position to replace him with a high-level player who’s ready to go to war with you.

Fant was just a JAG this time last year.

On last year of contract

played on a team with rookie everything.....did teams really need to sack Zack or sit back in nickel and let him throw because JETS were always behind?

Fant is average and over 30.

 

if this would happen which I would not be appose to

Becton

Tomlinson

McGovern

AVT

Penning

 

would be bad ass assuming Penning is real deal, Trade Fant maybe get something back and sign another back up.

 

 

[Integrity28]

The only 1 of the 4 top OT we haven’t been connected to is Neal. Otherwise, I’ve read we’re interested in Icky, Criss and now Penning.

[Adoni Beast]

20 minutes ago, Barton said:

Yup been thinking this for a while.

Take a WR at 4 and Penning at 10.

Trade Becton for a 2nd and 3rd rd pick and call it a day. 

Or hang onto Becton + Fant and trade whichever loses out in camp before the trade deadline.

[Green Ghost]

That 2020 draft is the gift that just keeps giving.

Thank you Joe Douglas. Thank you.