Jump to content

Pauline: Jets thirsty for Trevor Penning at 10.


T0mShane
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

The only 1 of the 4 top OT we haven’t been connected to is Neal. Otherwise, I’ve read we’re interested in Icky, Criss and now Penning.

Are you saying we are going after Criss and Cross?!  Damnn

In all honesty, I do believe the Jets will go after an OT, but wait until top of round 2 where they will get a LB as well.  Edge + WR makes too much sense in round 1.  Obviously trades can change everything.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

How do you know this?  I’ve followed free agency closely and didn’t see any meaningful or credible 2022 reports on this.  Just BS conjecture.

ZaDarius Smith was sitting there for the taking for a good number of days and wasn’t crazy crazy expensive.

I’d love to see the reporting if you have.

Listen, if we didn’t have the holes we have I think this strategy might make sense.  But given our holes and the investment in Becton, I just don’t think it makes sense.  JD has proven to be pretty logical to date so this would be a move that seems to be a poor use of draft capital and a very early acknowledgement of defeat in Becton.  I mean the guy is still holding out hope for Perine, A Davis, the 3rd round Edge from Florida (his name escapes me), Mims, …

Lastly, I still love your posts and think you are funny as sh*te!


 

 

Graziano and Jeremy Fowler both reported that the Jets were in on Jensen. As for Smith, I now realize I admittedly read that bit from Pauline, which obviously doesn’t help me here. I would say that Pauline clearly has sources inside the Jets scouting community and has demonstrated that over the years.

42 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The bold would have been before they picked up Tomlinson, though, no? Then again, they've also kept GVR on and re-signed backups McDermott & Feeney, so it'd be odd if the "soft" moniker is referring to any of those 3. Plus they also were allegedly making efforts to re-sign LDT, too, but it's possible he turned down the offer because it was only to be a backup (where they'd then cut GVR). 

Plus while he was needed far more than expected, Moses was merely fine (I'd have been ok bringing him back as a backup, but not as the starter again). I don't know that Moses is soft, though. More like he lacks the finesse & quickness to handle edge rushers, but he was a solid run blocker, and (like with LDT) it's doubtful they'd have wanted him back in a starting capacity so it's unsurprising if they were holding off making any offers unless he couldn't land a starting role. I'd prefer him at $5MM to McDermott at $2MM, though it may not have been that simple: these guys want to start.

Referring to Becton as soft hardly needs elaborating after missing 16+ games last year (and the tapping out thing from before Saleh got here).

However...while Fant took right to playing LT, in terms of not surrendering sacks, when it comes to run blocking I have this image of Fant trying to catch a butterfly on his finger. Despite his size, the last thing he is is a nasty/punishing run blocker. Much to the surprise - and/or dismay - of most here, I think in the event they do pick up a new tackle he's as likely to be the odd man out than Becton, who's also 7 years younger, locked up for longer, has far higher upside as an all-around performer, and for $5.5MM in new money for the next 2 seasons combined (vs. Fant's $28MM for the next 2 seasons, if he's tagged next year). 

It could be telling that Fant hasn't been extended yet (plus Fant's recent tweet - I forget the exact wording but iirc it was something like What's a brother gotta do? - might indicate he's aware he might not be in their future plans, or that they're not willing to commit to him longer term until after seeing what happens in the draft). Plus while he is coming off a career year, too many GMs fall into that trap of expecting an outlier season to become the new baseline going forward (not to mention he's been no ironman himself), and getting stuck with a contract they'd soon love to rescind. Saleh stated publicly Becton wasn't just going to get the LT job handed back to him. All of us (understandably) assumed that meant competition with Fant, and it probably did mean just that back when he said it, but it might still hold true coming up but with a different player competing with him for the starting LT job.

I've no idea what Fant's trade value is, though. He does have this year at very cheap for a starting veteran LT, and then can be tagged next year (OTC estimates it'll be just under $18MM), without a commitment needed until after this season's over. He also turns just 30 this summer (not old for an OLman). 

My own strong preference is to leave this situation alone for the year so they can focus on other positions up top, plus just sign better veteran tackle depth than McDermott/Edoga, which is very much still out there, and draft a developmental OT in a mid-round pick. I still wouldn't be shocked with any of the 3 possibilities (drafting a rd 1 tackle and moving on from Fant; drafting a rd 1 tackle and moving on from Becton; not drafting a tackle until day 3 and sticking with Fant/Becton for this year). 

As always, this all makes absolute sense and is the logical, practical path forward, but this is the Jets we’re talking about, and the drafting of Becton was pre-Saleh and Saleh seems dead-on committed to filling the roster team-first grit guys, even if it means getting a less talented player at a spot. Kind of Mangini-esque in that way. As for Douglas’ stake in this, he gets to flip Becton for more picks (or a player?), and he also takes a win in finding Fant in free agency and getting him for three years relatively cheaply. If Saleh—hypothetically—doesn’t want Becton here, would Douglas tell him tough luck? 
 

RE: the Hughes comment on Tretter, I believe it was two episodes ago, so after the Tomlinson signing, but he was citing the Jets general preferences for the OL going into this off-season, so technically it could pre-date Tomlinson. It was more a reference as to why they’d keep McGovern over Tretter.

16 minutes ago, derp said:

Ah I misinterpreted and thought you meant OT4 on the Jets.

Four tackles in the top nine, you’d need two non Gardner/Hutchinson/Walker/Thibodeaux prospects to go in that group with them to get one of the guys we’re talking about at four to be there at ten. It’s not that weird. Couple QB’s, Hamilton, Stingley, Wilson. Or maybe they want Jordan Davis. Or to ensure one of the WR’s slips. There are a lot of potential avenues.

The character can mesh all they want and the asset management component of it will still never make sense. They might have loved the punter’s character too but they’re not taking him at ten. For all of Douglas’ faults he hasn’t really done anything crazy or reckless, and all of his first round picks have walked into serious roles. Even the proposed Hill trade didn’t require giving up a first round pick. The tenth pick on a backup at a non premium position would be wild, and having a guy who played FCS football replace a guy who’s played tackle at the NFL level capably to protect a quarterback we know struggles with pressure would also be wild. Especially if you’re getting less in return for the known commodity.

Theres maybe a we aren’t extending George Fant so Penning’s the LT of the future and we can get a first round pick from the Saints/Chargers for Becton so we’ll do that scenario but that’s requires several leaps and an insurance policy if Penning isn’t ready - keeping in mind that while some people appreciated Penning’s intensity at the Senior Bowl he lost reps - that they don’t have. It’s too complex of a scenario to play out IMO, and I think that fans are buying into it is indicative of why it’s a good smokescreen that maybe gets a team to bite. I don’t doubt he wants a tackle, I do doubt he does it at ten. But I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again.

I guess also kind of to your point about why Williams is risky for Douglas because of the ACL, Penning at ten is the riskiest prospect in the draft for Douglas. You’ve got a bad team with a young quarterback and you’re either a) redshirting the tenth overall pick or b) giving up on the guy you took 11th overall two years ago to bank on a guy jumping from FCS football to the NFL to protect the guy you spent the second overall pick on last year enough that he looks well. There’s a Penning gets Wilson killed scenario that gets Douglas very fired that no other pick has - setting aside the chance Becton has a resurgence in his new home. Very different if not for the young QB or if Becton was expiring soon or if you’re getting a better asset for Becton than you’re spending on Penning, but none of those is the case.

Personally, I think the big risk for Douglas is that Becton was on his best behavior in 2020, and the Becton they got last year was more in line with who Becton is, especially now that he’s rich. Prior to the injury, he was getting beat like a drum all through camp. Wasn’t the rap on him coming out that he’d be a poor fit in a zone blocking scheme? It could just be that Becton doesn’t work in this offense and Fant does. I would absolutely not draft Penning if Fant and Becton are on the roster the day of the draft, but if you can flip Becton for picks (or DK?), why not? I think they’re at the stage of this rebuild where they’re still purging guys who don’t fit and replacing them with players who will placate the coaching staff. IMO, getting Becton out of here while he still has value would be the right move. If he goes to Seattle and dominates, I don’t think anyone will care, assuming Penning is a viable right tackle and the return for Becton is solid.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

And there is ZERO proof of that.  Attitude wise, drug-use wise....or anything else. 

Wow, you really took my post out of context.  My post was referring to the post made by someone saying that Becton's ceiling was Ogden which is high up on the scale of OT's.  So, I took the opposite end of the scale and said the basement was Mandarich.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, docdhc said:

This has to be pure speculation. JD or Saleh would never tell a reporter that their OL guys are soft. They will give Becton at least this year to prove himself. He has too much potential to cut bait now. 

Saleh just spent nine months watching Becton get fat and consciously avoid playing football for the New York Jets, all the while getting pestered by beat reporters over why Becton hasn’t been practicing. Do we think that Saleh was cool with that or what? This was Mike Garofolo back in January on the Becton situation:

“Only played one game this year. Had that knee injury and was expected to miss a little more than a month and then just missed the rest of the season. It was kind of a mysterious deal. Here's my understanding in speaking to sources familiar with what happened here. He was having issues. Obviously the knee did not come along as quickly as they had hoped. And then what happened was, because he wasn't able to do the kind of things that he needed to do to get into rehab and get back in shape, he put on weight. Weight has been an issue with Becton. We knew that coming into the draft, we knew that coming into his NFL career. This is something where he's going to have to continue to rehab that knee, he's going to have to get back in shape. The Jets are hopeful that he will be back in shape, ready to go physically and mentally for the start of OTAs, but we'll see how that goes.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

Wow, you really took my post out of context.  My post was referring to the post made by someone saying that Becton's ceiling was Ogden which is high up on the scale of OT's.  So, I took the opposite end of the scale and said the basement was Mandarich.  

Yeah but wasn't Mandarich's ceiling Jonathan Ogden as well (even though he predated him)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I would guess you could get a pretty hefty return for him. He’s a legitimate left tackle, and after Penning comes off the board, the tackle class falls off to Tyler Smith and Bernhard Raimann. Someone with a late first would probably bite.

if i was a opposing GM i would ask you if he is so legitimate then why dont YOU keep him? your trying to sell me on that he is a 1st rd talent. well then the 1st rd draft pick you get to replace him isnt much of an upgrade. so for you to replace him after 2 years, for you to use another 1st rd pick on LT instead of the gaping holes you got at WR and Edge tells me that you think Becton is a fat, lazy, injury prone SOB. im not giving up a #1 for that

how about a 3rd and a hefty garbage bag full of apples? is that a HEFTY enough return for you? lol

i cant wait for this draft to happen cause all these predictions that he uses another 1st rd pick on the OL are driving me crazy. 

Tom you make fun of how long this rebuild is taking and this post is the exact reason why. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Saleh just spent nine months watching Becton get fat and consciously avoid playing football for the New York Jets, all the while getting pestered by beat reporters over why Becton hasn’t been practicing. Do we think that Saleh was cool with that or what? 

Yeah, but if Saleh is on Twitter, he saw Becton (as soon as the season ended) promise big things for next year!

Verdict: Becton stays

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Or hang onto Becton + Fant and trade whichever loses out in camp before the trade deadline.

Trading the guy after he loses out in camp is dealing him at a low point of his value.

And nothing about Becton says the Jets can count on him next year. Nothing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

“Penning could come off the board as early as No. 10 to the New York Jets. I’ve been reporting since the Senior Bowl that Penning is a favorite of general manager Joe Douglas. As we spoke about during last week’s edition of the Draft Insiders, the saga with Mekhi Becton continues.

Jets coaches have confided to several players the team will go offensive tackle early in the draft. Whether early means the fourth selection, 10th pick, or the top of Round 2, I cannot tell at this point.”

Wtelf?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I'm going to be sick if we take a T in the first round. I am big on o-line but we don't need to have a first round pick insurance policy at T. 

I would hate it too. That said, I want Becton gone, and if we can get a decent return on him in a trade I’m okay (not thrilled) to draft OL again.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, derp said:

That’s a risk you mitigate with a Morgan Moses type backup, not the tenth overall pick though. And there weren’t questions about Becton running outside zone, at his best he’s big and mobile not big and lumbering.

And again, assuming Penning is a viable right tackle is a hefty assumption. I’d also argue you want more than a “viable” right tackle with the tenth overall pick, too, given it’s not really a premium position. And you’re ignoring the whole young QB jump from FCS thing.

I know you’re all in on the they want team first grit guys thing - I’d note that Penning much like a lot of the guys they added last year is very much an excellent athlete - but the above is stuff you need to ignore to make this make sense and they’re very real, practical things you’re ignoring. It doesn’t make sense.

Look at it this way: you’re the GM of a football team that’s about to win six games next year and your seat is fairly warm. Which situation would you rather go into 2022 with?:

A. Mekhi Becton coming back off of a catastrophic 2021 pre-season and a mysterious knee injury who is getting bumped to right tackle, where you pray he’ll stay healthy and motivated for 17 weeks.

-or-

B. Trevor Penning, a bulldog, starting at right tackle with a pack of extra draft picks and/or a receiver you acquired in the trade for Becton. 


If my interest was self-preservation, I’m not risking my job on Becton staying healthy or motivated. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Look at it this way: you’re the GM of a football team that’s about to win six games next year and your seat is fairly warm. Which situation would you rather go into 2022 with?:

A. Mekhi Becton coming back off of a catastrophic 2021 pre-season and a mysterious knee injury who is getting bumped to right tackle, where you pray he’ll stay healthy and motivated for 17 weeks.

-or-

B. Trevor Penning, a bulldog, starting at right tackle with a pack of extra draft picks and/or a receiver you acquired in the trade for Becton. 


If my interest was self-preservation, I’m not risking my job on Becton staying healthy or motivated. 

It’s not A or B, though. If you’re interested in self preservation, you need an insurance policy for either. They got through last year just fine with an insurance policy they picked up in June.

You’re also, intentionally or not, ignoring that you have more draft capital in scenario A than B, because the 10th pick on Penning is going to cost you more than whatever draft capital you’re getting for Becton.

I sign or draft the insurance policy and take more draft capital and the guy who’s actually shown he can play well at the NFL level instead of the guy coming from the FCS and switching sides. Like 11/10 times, it’s not close.

  • Upvote 1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, derp said:

It’s not A or B, though. If you’re interested in self preservation, you need an insurance policy for either. They got through last year just fine with an insurance policy they picked up in June.

You’re also, intentionally or not, ignoring that you have more draft capital in scenario A than B, because the 10th pick on Penning is going to cost you more than whatever draft capital you’re getting for Becton.

I sign or draft the insurance policy and take more draft capital and the guy who’s actually shown he can play well at the NFL level instead of the guy coming from the FCS and switching sides. Like 11/10 times, it’s not close.

Fair enough, but I think your premise relies on Becton being the Becton from 2020 and not the one he was last summer, which is a monster gamble. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Just not seeing how spreading info about possibly using pick 10 on the fourth OT is beneficial to the Jets, though.

because every GM has to be saying that there is no way JD can draft a OL for a 3rd year in a row. never happened in NFL history. the Jets biggest needs are WR and Edge. so if another team wants one they have to get in front of the Jets. 

so JD puts out there he wants an OL at 4. now he puts out there he wants one at 10. so when we dont draft an OL at 4 teams will think for sure we will take one at 10 and not try to trade with Seattle to get in front of us to get the WR they really want.

imagine how sucky it would be if someone trades up to 8 or 9 and takes the WR we wanted to pick at 10. maybe now that they think we really want an OL they wont trade up and we get our WR. 

we can only hope JD is this smart and he is using this as a smokescreen and not seriously considering an OL for the 3rd year in a row.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, doitny said:

because every GM has to be saying that there is no way JD can draft a OL for a 3rd year in a row. never happened in NFL history. the Jets biggest needs are WR and Edge. so if another team wants one they have to get in front of the Jets. 

so JD puts out there he wants an OL at 4. now he puts out there he wants one at 10. so when we dont draft an OL at 4 teams will think for sure we will take one at 10 and not try to trade with Seattle to get in front of us to get the WR they really want.

imagine how sucky it would be if someone trades up to 8 or 9 and takes the WR we wanted to pick at 10. maybe now that they think we really want an OL they wont trade up and we get our WR. 

we can only hope JD is this smart and he is using this as a smokescreen and not seriously considering an OL for the 3rd year in a row.

I likewise don’t think it’s smart to say “I need to plug a hole at receiver” and then decide to do that at pick 10. It would seem that Douglas agrees considering the outright desperation he’s displayed in trying to trade for one. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Saleh just spent nine months watching Becton get fat and consciously avoid playing football for the New York Jets, all the while getting pestered by beat reporters over why Becton hasn’t been practicing. Do we think that Saleh was cool with that or what? This was Mike Garofolo back in January on the Becton situation:

“Only played one game this year. Had that knee injury and was expected to miss a little more than a month and then just missed the rest of the season. It was kind of a mysterious deal. Here's my understanding in speaking to sources familiar with what happened here. He was having issues. Obviously the knee did not come along as quickly as they had hoped. And then what happened was, because he wasn't able to do the kind of things that he needed to do to get into rehab and get back in shape, he put on weight. Weight has been an issue with Becton. We knew that coming into the draft, we knew that coming into his NFL career. This is something where he's going to have to continue to rehab that knee, he's going to have to get back in shape. The Jets are hopeful that he will be back in shape, ready to go physically and mentally for the start of OTAs, but we'll see how that goes.”

Agree with this but my point still stands. They’ll give Becton this year at least to prove himself. Also still speculation that Saleh thinks he’s soft because he’d never say that to a reporter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Fair enough, but I think your premise relies on Becton being the Becton from 2020 and not the one he was last summer, which is a monster gamble. 

I respectfully disagree. Your premise is relying on a guy who played FCS football being good enough in pass protection as a rookie at a position he didn’t play in college - it’s not always easy for guys to flip sides - to protect a young quarterback. I think you’re underrating the risk associated with penciling Penning in as a starting right tackle.

I don’t know if it’s been clear through the posts, but I could absolutely see them giving up on Becton. But a pragmatic GM, which I think Douglas is for all his faults, does that to invest less in a right tackle, not more, and does it with a guy he knows can play at the professional level - or with a veteran quarterback playing behind him. Penning doesn’t not fit all of that, he fits none of it.

I see it as monster gamble versus monster gamble. And if I’m playing monster gamble versus monster gamble, I’ll take the extra draft capital and the guy who we at least know can play at this level.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Fair enough, but I think your premise relies on Becton being the Becton from 2020 and not the one he was last summer, which is a monster gamble. 

the question you have to ask is, is douglas willing to bet his job on becton becoming good and protecting Wilson’s blind side?  As you’ve noted, no doubt saleh is sick of the becton saga as well.  I would not be surprised if they went ekongwu at 4, dealt becton and then drafted JJ or karlaftis and then you have eliminated the problem and brought in 2 more saleh guys.  I just don’t think douglas is willing to risk Wilson’s development suffering b/c douglas is stubborn on becton.  

  • Upvote 1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I likewise don’t think it’s smart to say “I need to plug a hole at receiver” and then decide to do that at pick 10. It would seem that Douglas agrees considering the outright desperation he’s displayed in trying to trade for one. 

Trading for a wr makes sense on various levels, but assuming he’s unable to, i still think it’s not all that likely they take one at 10.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

Another reason why mims is likely out as well, but i don’t think wr is going to be drafted in the first round.  I think it’s easier to see a scenario where the jets go edge/OL in round 1 and douglas has a trade in place for becton.  And then wr in round 2.

This defense is abysmal. They need to fix the defense. The OL is fine for now. There are good options at guard, center and tackle in round 3-4-5 to fortify the OL. JD needs to focus on Edge, LB, CB, S, DT. In other words, every defensive position. Sauce, Lloyd, Muma, McDuffie, Thibs, Walker, Cine, Pitre,. We have 4 picks in the top 38. JD needs to clamp down and get 4 of these guys. The only guy I’d go with at 35 or 38 on offense is Christian Watson WR. Defense defense defense. Or do you guys need to see the video replay against the Colts last year. 💁🏻‍♂️

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As long as Becton is on the right track we don't have the luxury or need to make this kinda pick. Unless we make a trade for a WR without costing a 1st rounder, those picks are needed for other things. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Trading for a wr makes sense on various levels, but assuming he’s unable to, i still think it’s not all that likely they take one at 10.  

Berrios and Mims are our WR 3 and 4. i think 10 WRs will be gone by rd 2. 

WR is the 2nd most important position next to QB, not OL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Barton said:

Yup been thinking this for a while.

Take a WR at 4 and Penning at 10.

Trade Becton for a 2nd and 3rd rd pick and call it a day. 

You had me in the first half. Penning would be a Fant replacement. 

As for this player, he's everything you want out of a tackle, physically, except for the penalties. He had 34 at UNI. Not all of them were personal fouls he's also prone to holding. To put this number into context, Ikey, Neal and cross all had under 10 penalties in their career. 

With the taunting rules in the NFL he could be a problem. I have him as a Solid Rd 1st grade, held back by penalty concerns 

certainly seahawks at 9 are in play. And the Jets could be too. Even though I see him as more of a mid to late Rd 1 rather than a top 10 player. It only takes one team to fall in love 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

You had me in the first half. Penning would be a Fant replacement. 

As for this player, he's everything you want out of a tackle, physically, except for the penalties. He had 34 at UNI. Not all of them were personal fouls he's also prone to holding. To put this number into context, Ikey, Neal and cross all had under 10 penalties in their career. 

With the taunting rules in the NFL he could be a problem. I have him as a Solid Rd 1st grade, held back by penalty concerns 

certainly seahawks at 9 are in play. And the Jets could be too. Even though I see him as more of a mid to late Rd 1 rather than a top 10 player. It only takes one team to fall in love 

 

I guarantee you if the Jets draft Penning or another O-tackle in the 1st rd that it will not be for replacing Fant. Becton would be a goner.

Interesting stat on the penalties, bit. That is extremely high. Penalties from your Olineman are drive killers. That's a terrible #.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...