I still want Defense. The data says I’m wrong.

[jetstream23]

Maybe I’m different here. I’m willing to open my mind and admit I need to move my needle some more…and I’ll even start a thread about it.

Some good data here from Joe Caporoso…

 

With that said, I will still suggest that this particular Draft is one in which the defensive talent trumps the offensive talent, especially early…. and especially at positions of particular need and premium value for the Jets like Edge.

Feels like at least 2, but maybe 3 of those top 4 picks should be D. But again, it’s an offense driven league.

 

 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

They’ll need to build an elite offense and Wilson has to be the goods to be competitive in the AFC. That being said, this system is built on playing from ahead, which means they have to lean into that with ball control on offense and a horde of edge rushers. At a minimum, they can’t keep playing from behind like they did last year. 

[jetsons]

DEFENSE WINS ... Super Bowls ... As they have the Majority of the time & as seen in the last 4.

[Hex]

3 minutes ago, jetsons said:

DEFENSE WINS ... Super Bowls ... As they have the Majority of the time & as seen in the last 4.

But offense wins playoff games, so it's a trade-off

[jeremy2020]

I'm curious how many of the top 10 offenses also had bottom 10 defenses. I think the offense is more important, but having a wet paper towel for a defense isn't great either. 

 

I guess you can look at this way.. no matter what the Jets do.. it's likely a badly needed upgrade. 

[jetstream23]

22 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

I'm curious how many of the top 10 offenses also had bottom 10 defenses. I think the offense is more important, but having a wet paper towel for a defense isn't great either. 

 

I guess you can look at this way.. no matter what the Jets do.. it's likely a badly needed upgrade. 

Maybe it comes down to being a “game changing” D? What if you give up yards, you give up 1st downs, you give up a 9 play drive….BUT when it matters you have the disrupters at Edge or CB to force that sack, that fumble, an interception that flips the script?

I think the most important statistic I’m going to look at this year is turnover differential. Not just how many turnovers the Jets force and not just how many we commit with interceptions by Zach or fumbles, but the differential +/- should really show whether this team has learned to be functional on offense and disruptive on defense.

[The Crusher]

43 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

They’ll need to build an elite offense and Wilson has to be the goods to be competitive in the AFC. That being said, this system is built on playing from ahead, which means they have to lean into that with ball control on offense and a horde of edge rushers. At a minimum, they can’t keep playing from behind like they did last year. 

Take an edge rusher twice day 1 and once day 2. All we hear is Saleh defense needs pass rush ……

 

 

 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

@jetstream23 = @DefenseWinsChampionships85 ?

[peekskill68]

This feels a bit like believing something to be true and then mining the data to support it.  I think he needs to look at multiple years (with current offense friendly rules) to see if this holds up consistently.  Also, just with the eye test, it felt to me like Miller, Donald and the 7 sacks were more influential in the Rams victory than Stafford and Kupp...

[LAD_Brooklyn]

When it comes to the draft, I'm all about premium positions and All-Pro potiential from non premium positions. 

What I'm about to say sounds prehistoric, however we have to align a better defense and running game around Wilson. We don't have balance lineman. Besides Fant who's the opposite, most of our guy scale more so as better run blockers then pass blocker. Shanahan and the 9ers finished top 5 in rushing attempts. Jets were dead last and yes the score dictated us pass more. So we have to keep the game close with a competitive defense. I'll be the last one to get on one for mocking a day 2 RB. 

[doitny]

we dont need a top 10 defense. we just cant have the worst defense. 

WR should be taken in rd 1. the other 3 picks have to be defense. i might make an exception if we really like a RB in rd 2. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

47 minutes ago, jetsons said:

DEFENSE WINS ... Super Bowls ... As they have the Majority of the time & as seen in the last 4.

In 19/20, the Chiefs defense was slightly above average. They won because of Mahomes/Kelce/Hill.

In 20/21, the Bucs defense was slightly above average. They won because they had Brady/Godwin/Evans/Fournette.

Those Bucs weren't a playoff team the year before they added Brady/Gronk. 

You obviously need some semblance of a defense to win a super bowl and you need your defense to step up in the playoffs. But offense wins in the NFL. No team is trading their elite offensive players for help on Defense 

[JohnnyLV]

A defensive mindset is hard coded into Jets fans brains. They will always think defense wins games and super bowls. It is obvious that offense is more important than defense. I did a post a long time ago that showed that with 1 or two outliers every team that wins a super bowl or even gets there yet people here want to cling to the exceptions. They want to give all the credit to Donald while ignoring their offense which was 10th in yards and 8th in scoring. And in fact, LA did not win because of defense as much as they lost because they could not contain one player in Donald.

To be honest all the focus on defense by Jets fans in this draft pisses me off a bit because we have gone down this road before and yet they want to go down the same idiotic path of drafting a QB and then working on the defense. I hope Douglas is not stupid enough to do this. This year needs to be about Zach as well IMO.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

@jetstream23 = @DefenseWinsChampionships85 ?

<INSERT You Sunovabich GIF>
 

lol

[jetstream23]

49 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

When it comes to the draft, I'm all about premium positions and All-Pro potiential from non premium positions. 

What I'm about to say sounds prehistoric, however we have to align a better defense and running game around Wilson. We don't have balance lineman. Besides Fant who's the opposite, most of our guy scale more so as better run blockers then pass blocker. Shanahan and the 9ers finished top 5 in rushing attempts. Jets were dead last and yes the score dictated us pass more. So we have to keep the game close with a competitive defense. I'll be the last one to get on one for mocking a day 2 RB. 

You might be my new best friend. lol

What did the Jets do on offense in free agency?

Added an OG (from San Francisco’s rushing system).

Added 2 TEs. Both of whom can catch a football, but are not elite guys at catching a football. Well-suited to block in the rushing game.

Yes, they pursued Tyreek Hill to be the dynamic game changer. But what they have executed so far shows what they want to be. We want to rush this damn football and then have Zach make three or four key passes that go to the bank!

By the way, part of the reason you add a guy like Tyreek Hill is to keep those safeties honest and deep. That opens the running game.

[Bungaman]

3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

I'm curious how many of the top 10 offenses also had bottom 10 defenses. I think the offense is more important, but having a wet paper towel for a defense isn't great either. 

 

I guess you can look at this way.. no matter what the Jets do.. it's likely a badly needed upgrade. 

I wonder if there's a healthy spread - say a top ten offense and a top 15 defense - that gives one the best chance of making the playoffs and/or the SB. And when the disparity starts to make a big difference, Historically, it would also be interesting to see how all time great defenses - like the '85 Bears, '86 Giants, 2000 Ravens (who went for five games w/o an offensive touchdown) - and great offenses, fared when doing it mostly on their own.  

[LIJetsFan]

My thinking has been evolving.  I don't care what order JD does it in but I want DE, LB, WR, RB with our first 4 picks.  After that maybe one more D player, DT, and the rest to shore up the OL & WR depth. 

I hate to say it but our roster will still be incomplete this year but def on the improve. I feel we'll be pretty active during the 53 cut down mini draft period.  That team will still need depth players and the mini draft will help.            

[Bungaman]

1 minute ago, LIJetsFan said:

My thinking has been evolving.  I don't care what order JD does it in but I want DE, LB, WR, RB with our first 4 picks.  After that maybe one more D player, DT, and the rest to shore up the OL & WR depth. 

I hate to say it but our roster will still be incomplete this year but def on the improve. I feel we'll be pretty active during the 53 cut down mini draft period.  That team will still need depth players and the mini draft will help.            

You speak my mind. 

[Larz]

Stop me if you’ve heard this before, but to win, the jets have to hide the QB, so the best bet is defense and a running game. 

[jetsons]

5 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

In 19/20, the Chiefs defense was slightly above average. They won because of Mahomes/Kelce/Hill.

In 20/21, the Bucs defense was slightly above average. They won because they had Brady/Godwin/Evans/Fournette.

Those Bucs weren't a playoff team the year before they added Brady/Gronk. 

You obviously need some semblance of a defense to win a super bowl and you need your defense to step up in the playoffs. But offense wins in the NFL. No team is trading their elite offensive players for help on Defense 

Completely Wrong

[jamesr]

We won't have a top 10 defense however many players we draft on that side out the ball. But we simply cannot be a bottom of the league defense and expect anything but misery.

If we could field an average defense in 2022 it would make a huge difference.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Dunnie]

Stop me if you’ve heard this before, but to win, the jets have to hide the QB, so the best bet is defense and a running game. 

I agree completely... until this team grows up and can protect a franxhise QB so he doesnt need to run for his life every play they will lose.

So yeah Edge, WR, WR, OL, OL, OL, OL, OL, OL, OL, RB

[Warfish]

While some balance is needed, the modern NFL is entirely about Offense.  Offense is what wins.

With that said, fielding the worst Defense in Franchise history will always lead to a pathetic record.

As will fielding the worst QB in the NFL.

So really, we just need competence, on D, on O, at QB, before we can start thinking about winning titles and if Offense or Defense is 'better' for trying to win those.

[bla bla bla]

10 hours ago, doitny said:

we dont need a top 10 defense. we just cant have the worst defense. 

WR should be taken in rd 1. the other 3 picks have to be defense. i might make an exception if we really like a RB in rd 2. 

I like WR in round 1 but I prefer it in a trade up into the tail end of the first. Only WR I may consider in the top 10 is Jameson Williams

[The Crusher]

48 minutes ago, Warfish said:

While some balance is needed, the modern NFL is entirely about Offense.  Offense is what wins.

With that said, fielding the worst Defense in Franchise history will always lead to a pathetic record.

As will fielding the worst QB in the NFL.

So really, we just need competence, on D, on O, at QB, before we can start thinking about winning titles and if Offense or Defense is 'better' for trying to win those.

I think you are correct on that one. Least kind of hope you are. Pretty sure that’s what we sawin the approach to free agency so far. Getting guys on either side of the ball to bolster the positions that were painfully and obviously well below NFL competency. Sans QB, but for now we have to be somewhat patient for another season or two as long as he shows a continuing grasp of the offense and even a mild approach to mastery. Like to see his protect the ball safe play continue with some of his inherent ability to throw deep provide much needed chunk plays. 
 

I’m a draft dunce but I have to assume we see the same well balanced approach to competency during the draft. At least I’d like  to, though I realize we have gone heavy O last couple drafts. Might see little tug of war between Saleh and Douglas on D line/edge vs MOAR O line! Hard to say. 
 

I think the rest of the draft will be balanced and an attempt to approach competency similar to free agency. 

[Adoni Beast]

I don’t think we can ignore defense but those resources need to be for EDGE, CB, FS only in the early rounds.

Save your IDL, ILB, and “edge setting” OLB talk for another team.

Rush and hit the QB, have playmakers in secondary and dump everything else into offense.

[Augustiniak]

38 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I don’t think we can ignore defense but those resources need to be for EDGE, CB, FS only in the early rounds.

Save your IDL, ILB, and “edge setting” OLB talk for another team.

Rush and hit the QB, have playmakers in secondary and dump everything else into offense.

Positional value matters so much, we’ve seen how gms can waste prime resources on DT and S and never improve the team.  I think the biggest question in the draft for the jets is what they do at wr.  It’s clearly a need and a prime position in the nfl.  But the top end talent may not be here.  They could easily have a meat and potatoes draft and go edge/OL or edge/cb and come away with talented players.  Yet the team may benefit most by simply drafting garrett wilson and making it easier for the qb, even if the draft board suggests otherwise.

[mattg]

Bottom line. We need both. If u can't score points, u can't win. Funny how that works. This team looked embarrassingly inept on offense most of the time. At the same time, the defense was equally as pitiful at times. Need playmakers on both sides. Just my 2 cents

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, bla bla bla said:

I like WR in round 1 but I prefer it in a trade up into the tail end of the first. Only WR I may consider in the top 10 is Jameson Williams

A team with as many holes as we have and we're still trading up in a draft where we have 4 premium picks?

[TuscanyTile2]

36 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Positional value matters so much, we’ve seen how gms can waste prime resources on DT and S and never improve the team.  I think the biggest question in the draft for the jets is what they do at wr.  It’s clearly a need and a prime position in the nfl.  But the top end talent may not be here.  They could easily have a meat and potatoes draft and go edge/OL or edge/cb and come away with talented players.  Yet the team may benefit most by simply drafting garrett wilson and making it easier for the qb, even if the draft board suggests otherwise.

If we don't make a trade for an impact WR, I think we're definitely going to take a WR high in this draft.  JD is not going to leave Zach with not enough weapinz to work with in his 2nd year.  

[Raideraholic]

13 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

I'm curious how many of the top 10 offenses also had bottom 10 defenses. I think the offense is more important, but having a wet paper towel for a defense isn't great either. 

 

I guess you can look at this way.. no matter what the Jets do.. it's likely a badly needed upgrade. 

If you don’t have top 15 Qb you’re screwed. It’s doesn’t matter what you have on defense , or offense.

[Wit]

It all comes down to the QB and a half decent defense. Thats why they get paid obscene amounts of money.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Seems to me the top edge rushers are in the top 6 of this draft.  We also need a WR which can be had after our pick at 4.  I'm still sticking to an edge at 4 and a WR at 10.  Now, if we pick a CB or OL at 4, all bets are off on what the plan is.

[slimjasi]

13 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Take an edge rusher twice day 1 and once day 2. All we hear is Saleh defense needs pass rush ……

 

 

 

If we are going defense heavy, this is the approach I favor. 
 

bring back the sack exchange 

[FidelioJet]

9 minutes ago, Wit said:

It all comes down to the QB and a half decent defense. Thats why they get paid obscene amounts of money.

Sure, but I think that's a given.

This is about what else to do with the team.  Do we focus on surrounding him with a strong OL and weapons or build a defense to keep games close.

IMHO - You do everything you can to support your QB.   There's also reason WR's are now getting $30mm a year.

QB's need help to thrive.