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Building a team doesn’t take a decade


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53 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I agree that they need to start showing results this season, but acting like what he had in 2019 equates to a full season is a ******* joke.

If you mean "acting like he had a full offseason in 2019 is a ******* joke", I'd agree with you.

I'm not really sure what point you or others are trying to make with the pedanticism. 

Regardless of what you wish to think about his first season as the employed GM of the NY Jets, it will not change anything being discussed here. 

It does not change anything in re: to looking at the 2022 season or his evaluation after this coming season ends.

So what's the point exactly?

53 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

He has had 3 free agency periods and 2 drafts.  By the end of the season he will have had 3 of each.  You can judge him on that

We will.  As will, very likely, the Johnsons.

53 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

FWIW, I have akways said it does not take long to overhaul a team.  IMO 3 years is enough to completely overhaul a roster - so 2022 should be 100% on Joe Douglas.  

Yes, 2022 is entirely, 100% on Joe Douglas.

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1 hour ago, PepPep said:

Sounds like you are obsessed with JD drafting O-line LOLOL 😂

Thats all you seem to talk about.

What if Mims ended up being a stud? Or how about this. What if JD DID draft a WR in Rd. 1 like you wanted- but that WR was Mims! Would it really matter? What if half the team wasn't on IR last year and the Jets were actually pushing for the playoffs last year? Or if Zach's development was just a bit quicker than expected and he burst onto the scene his rookie year. 

My point is, the Jets bad record has nothing to do with them drafting O-line early. Whiffing on some key positions in the draft? Sure. Not being able to get key FAs? Maybe. JD is building through the draft and he is building the trenches. Makes sense. He will do it until he gets it right. For the record- he added (and hit on) a WR in Rd. 2 and he added (and hit on) a RB in Rd. 4 last year. And one of his biggest signing this year was a WR- even if it was just to retain Berrios. Point is- he ponied up for a versatile slot WR who has chemistry with Zach. 

ALSO I think you can expect an Edge and WR at #4 and #10 so you can relax! haha

i have been obsessed since the season ended and people started talking about drafting one in rd 1 for the 3rd year in a row. the more i look into that the more disturbing it got.  history and the current NFL shows nobody wins like this.

even if Mims was a stud there are still tons of holes and OL is a waste of a 1st rd pick. any other position would bring us closer to winning.

they dont throw the ball, Catch or Run with it. they dont try to tackle the guy with the ball, or sack him or INT it. all they do is block the guy in front of him. and all you have to do to negate him is throw 2 guys at him cause one will get your QB.

OL are a dime a dozen. we had a good OL last year with one 1st rd pick. so does the rest of the NFL.

yeah he hit on a WR and RB who are both NOT #1s. and im not talking about the round they were picked in. 

and your not paying 2 OL big money so why keep drafting them early. 

sorry to keep posting like this but when you do the research and see the numbers and then see people here tell you that we cant live if Becton gets hurt and a 3rd rd pick has to replace him or that the draft says we have no choice but to draft OL again cause there the only  "worthy" ones to be drafted there it gets you a little crazy. lol

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, slats said:

They changed the rules after they entered the league. They were given a ridiculous head start with the expansion draft that year. It was pretty absurd. JD took over an expansion level roster with a terrible coach in place and no expansion draft at all. 

We've had a 62 year head start 😆 

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2 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

Do you believe Saleh and Lafleur were instrumental in influencing the 2021 draft?

Yes   Absolutely. And Gase was influential in the 2020 draft. But that’s neither here nor there. JD owns all of the personnel decisions from June of 2019. This is third full free agent and college draft. In my opinion It will be telling if he drafts Williams in the first round. If he does JDs seat isn’t hot in ownership eyes and they will let him fulfill at least 5 of the 6 years on his contract 

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16 minutes ago, slats said:

They changed the rules after they entered the league. They were given a ridiculous head start with the expansion draft that year. It was pretty absurd. JD took over an expansion level roster with a terrible coach in place and no expansion draft at all. 

And completely whiffed on his tone setting first draft. 

 

This will be his 3rd draft, the honeymoon is over. If they are uncompetitive again, it's going to get uncomfortable. 

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6 minutes ago, slats said:

They changed the rules after they entered the league. They were given a ridiculous head start with the expansion draft that year. It was pretty absurd. JD took over an expansion level roster with a terrible coach in place and no expansion draft at all. 

Yep.   Those two teams came in togther and had it fairly easy.  The Browns were an "expansion team" in 1999 and they have had 3 winning seasons since.  They have only had a positive point differential twice and both times by under 25 points.   The Texans didn't have a winning season for 8 years (Kubiak's 4th) and didn't make the playoffs for 10.

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9 hours ago, rtnelson said:

Wildcard this place goes nuts.

In the hunt late and most of us are happy.

Mediocre football, and we're not happy.

Bad team, bad season, high draft pick and we're all fed up.

And the wheel of time takes another turn.

 

The wheel wills and the wheel weaves. 

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Ok.  Then what.  

Presumably they fold the team, and launch an expansion team somewhere else.

Oh sorry, I presumed that wasn't a serious question, so I gave an equally unserious answer.

They hire a new GM and that GM hires his new Head Coach, presumably.  Pretty standard business.

But I wouldn't expect that to happen till after 2023, no matter what happens in 2022, if I were being honest.

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JD has been here for part of 2019, all of 2020, 2021, and part of 2022. We are still pretending that he didn't sign a six-year deal with the understanding that this process was going to be slow and arduous. Even with the hiccup of the 2020 draft, JD has positioned this team for current and future success. Idzik was awful, but he was at least trying to start a re-build. Maccagnan spent all of the money that Idzik freed up for a "competitive re-build" that was neither competitive or a re-build once the 2016 season started. The idea that the Jets have been re-building for 10 years is intellectually dishonest. JD came in and started an actual re-build the team and SOJs are complaining. Our previous GM gave a fix-n-flip effort and left the team with a money pit. I won't dare to tell anyone to be patient, but to deny that JD isn't moving the franchise forward is being disingenuous. 

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12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Presumably they fold the team, and launch an expansion team somewhere else.

Oh sorry, I presumed that wasn't a serious question, so I gave an equally unserious answer.

They hire a new GM and that GM hires his new Head Coach, presumably.  Pretty standard business.

But I wouldn't expect that to happen till after 2023, no matter what happens in 2022, if I were being honest.

 

And what quality of GM do you expect the Johnson's to be able to hire, given that their prior 2 hires were John Idzik and Mike Maccagnan?  

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10 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

It is amazing how much devotion this guy has inspired with a poor record off the field and a worse one on it.

His 2020 offseason was an absolute debacle that set this team back. 

2021 was better but still more misses than hits to this point. 

If we start losing early in 2022 I think we're going to be reminded just how fickle this fanbase can be. Anything less than 5 wins and he's out. 

LOL, he unloaded Adams for 2 1sts and Darnold for a 2nd, and you are foolish enough to want him fired before he even gets to draft 2 out of those 3 players? How dare JD not already get elite production from players that aren't on the team yet? Fire him!!

 

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And what quality of GM do you expect the Johnson's to be able to hire, given that their prior 2 hires were John Idzik and Mike Maccagnan?  

Sorry, are you making a "keep JD forever" argument here, it's really quite hard to suss out the point you're trying to make.

If, in the hypothetical, JD fails to produce a winning team in 2022 and 2023 and is fired, then I "expect" the Johnsons will hire whatever GM they think is best from the available candidates, same as they did when they hired JD himself.

Why, what would you "expect"?  Do you think JD is the greatest GM in history, and no one could possibly be hired that could do better?

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

If you mean "acting like he had a full offseason in 2019 is a ******* joke", I'd agree with you.

I'm not really sure what point you or others are trying to make with the pedanticism. 

Regardless of what you wish to think about his first season as the employed GM of the NY Jets, it will not change anything being discussed here. 

It does not change anything in re: to looking at the 2022 season or his evaluation after this coming season ends.

So what's the point exactly?

We will.  As will, very likely, the Johnsons.

Yes, 2022 is entirely, 100% on Joe Douglas.

The point I am making is that the GMs "season:" is the offseason.  He had a mini-draft. That's it.  Rmember when you used to make fun of Tanny for talking about that?  We will judge him on the 2022 team because he had 3 offseasons to assemble it.  The fact that they hired him in 2019 was only relevant to him getting his staff in place for the 2020 offseason.  Saying he's had 4 years or acting like he had 3 years last year is silly.  He will have been here three years when June 7 rolls around.  

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4 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Trades have been elite

1st draft Bad

2nd Draft good

That pretty much makes him the 2nd best GM this franchise ever had and some of you clowns want him gone so we can hire the next Idzik. 

With the exception of a couple of years of Rex, this franchise has been a dumpster fire since Parcells.  This isn't a 49ers worst-to-first type rebuild.  This isn't even the Bengals or Browns.  This is genuinely one of the worst run franchises in professional sports.  The entire infrastructure from the back office to what we see on the field each Sunday has had to be gutted and rebuilt...

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34 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Sorry, are you making a "keep JD forever" argument here, it's really quite hard to suss out the point you're trying to make.

If, in the hypothetical, JD fails to produce a winning team in 2022 and 2023 and is fired, then I "expect" the Johnsons will hire whatever GM they think is best from the available candidates, same as they did when they hired JD himself.

Why, what would you "expect"?  Do you think JD is the greatest GM in history, and no one could possibly be hired that could do better?

 

The Johnson's didn't hire Douglas.  Adam Gase did.  The Johnson's merely sign his checks.

My argument would be we might as well let Douglas finish out his contract at a minimum, because indeed, the Johnson's will not be able to hire a better caliber GM than Douglas.  In fact, far from it, because they have no idea what they're doing, and no self-respecting candidate with options will choose the Jets.

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10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The point I am making is that the GMs "season:" is the offseason.  He had a mini-draft. That's it.  Rmember when you used to make fun of Tanny for talking about that?  We will judge him on the 2022 team because he had 3 offseasons to assemble it.  The fact that they hired him in 2019 was only relevant to him getting his staff in place for the 2020 offseason.  Saying he's had 4 years or acting like he had 3 years last year is silly.  He will have been here three years when June 7 rolls around.  

Ok.  Does this change anything whatsoever?

After 2022, JD will be evaluated and judged, by Fans surely, and likely by the Ownership.

If he produces another losing lopsided uncompetitive team in 2022, his job will be in danger. 

Probably not fired (as noted above, I personally think that wouldn't happen till after 2023 at the earliest).

So, does all this herp-a-derp about three years vs. four years make any difference in this? 

I'd say "nope", none whatsoever.  Carry on.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

My argument would be we might as well let Douglas finish out his contract at a minimum, because indeed, the Johnson's will not be able to hire a better GM than Douglas.

Well, ok.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion.  

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Well, ok.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion.  

Yes and this is a message board where people express their opinions, primarily regarding the New York Jets.  Thanks for reminding me and everyone else that this is a place where people can indeed express their opinions.

You could have just not responded, you know.  lol.  

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1 hour ago, CSNY said:

Yes   Absolutely. And Gase was influential in the 2020 draft. But that’s neither here nor there. JD owns all of the personnel decisions from June of 2019. This is third full free agent and college draft. In my opinion It will be telling if he drafts Williams in the first round. If he does JDs seat isn’t hot in ownership eyes and they will let him fulfill at least 5 of the 6 years on his contract 

I get the feeling that JD and Saleh have been assured that they are safe this season and it's OK for them to play to the long game building the team.

#4 - Gardner #10 Williams

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14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes and this is a message board where people express their opinions, primarily regarding the New York Jets.  Thanks for reminding me and everyone else that this is a place where people can indeed express their opinions.

You could have just not responded, you know.  lol.  

Why would I do that when this is a message board where people express their opinions, primarily regarding the New York Jets?

I expressed an opinion. 

And that opinion is that your opinion, specifically that in the instance of a poor 2022, the Jets "will not be able to hire a better GM than Douglas" so should retain him for his entire contract, is, in my view, pretty weak.  Since you seem to want it spelled out for you.

Seems like I'm right in line with the stated purpose of this forum.  As you define it.  Lol.

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11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The point I am making is that the GMs "season:" is the offseason.  He had a mini-draft. That's it.  Rmember when you used to make fun of Tanny for talking about that?  We will judge him on the 2022 team because he had 3 offseasons to assemble it.  The fact that they hired him in 2019 was only relevant to him getting his staff in place for the 2020 offseason.  Saying he's had 4 years or acting like he had 3 years last year is silly.  He will have been here three years when June 7 rolls around.  

He deserves the heckles from the peanut gallery for kicking the can on Gase and Darnold because otherwise we wouldn't still be trying to figure out what year it is. At the same time, the track record he has established is one of at least doing way fewer openly stupid things than anybody else who's had the gig in who knows how long. Continuity for sake of seeing where that takes us seems reasonable enough.

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21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Why would I do that when this is a message board where people express their opinions, primarily regarding the New York Jets?

I expressed an opinion. 

And that opinion is that your opinion, specifically that in the instance of a poor 2022, the Jets "will not be able to hire a better GM than Douglas" so should retain him for his entire contract, is, in my view, pretty weak.  Since you seem to want it spelled out for you.

Seems like I'm right in line with the stated purpose of this forum.  As you define it.  Lol.

 

Well, everyone is allowed to express their opinion I suppose.  

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Ok.  Does this change anything whatsoever?

After 2022, JD will be evaluated and judged, by Fans surely, and likely by the Ownership.

If he produces another losing lopsided uncompetitive team in 2022, his job will be in danger. 

Probably not fired (as noted above, I personally think that wouldn't happen till after 2023 at the earliest).

So, does all this herp-a-derp about three years vs. four years make any difference in this? 

I'd say "nope", none whatsoever.  Carry on.

Not sure why you're bitching to me.  I agree the 3 years vs 4 is not a huge deal.  Doesn't mean I have to accept inaccuracy.  Is there anybody on the planet saying that Douglas deserves a pass because he has only been here 2 or 3 years? 

The fact is, he does seem to be playing the long game.  Whether it is working or not remains to be seen, but considering the moves made you;'d have to be pretty dim to insist on a 2015 style winning season.

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Doesn't mean I have to accept inaccuracy.

Nothing I have said has been inaccurate.  

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Is there anybody on the planet saying that Douglas deserves a pass because he has only been here 2 or 3 years? 

Yes, several.

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The fact is, he does seem to be playing the long game.

Yes.  It appears the Owners have given him a longer leash than most new GM's get.  

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Whether it is working or not remains to be seen

2 wins with Gase.  Then 4 wins with Saleh.  

6-27 if you prefer to only judge him by 2020 and 2021.

We'll see what 2022 brings.  

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you;'d have to be pretty dim to insist on a 2015 style winning season

Heaven forbid.

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44 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

He deserves the heckles from the peanut gallery for kicking the can on Gase and Darnold because otherwise we wouldn't still be trying to figure out what year it is. At the same time, the track record he has established is one of at least doing way fewer openly stupid things than anybody else who's had the gig in who knows how long. Continuity for sake of seeing where that takes us seems reasonable enough.

I don't care about people heckling him.   What exactlhy was he supposed to do about Gase and Darnold?  I don't even know what to make of that statement.  Gase supposedly had a hand in getting him hired.  He took over a horrible team and went 7-9.  There was no way they were getting out from under him for 2020.  The mistake with Gase was hiring him in the first place and Douglas was not aroundf for that.  Not sure what you wanted them to do at QB for 2020 either.  You had to stay with Darnold.   There was some reason to think he could turn it around and Jordan Love was the only one left when they were on the clock.  Rivers, Bridgewater, Cam Newton?  Winston?  Mariota? Which one of thise was a good idea? 

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Just now, Origen said:

God I hope we go 0-17 and don't fire anyone just to make everyone with all the insider knowledge go bonkers because NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING.

Yeah, that would be a great reason to want to 0-17.  You win this thread.

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14 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yeah, that would be a great reason to want to 0-17.  You win this thread.

It's the little things that bring me joy, and there is nothing better than people's proclamations of certainty going up in smoke.

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A GM working together with good coaches should have a team heading in the right direction in about 2 years, maybe 3.  JD/Saleh+ only had one year.

But the GM can show competence by his round 1 and 2 picks.  Those ain’t looking great for JD.

JD could have held onto Darnold and built a team ready for the replacement QB.  Instead he picked Wilson.  So if Wilson is as bad this year as he was last year, that could be the end for him.  JD also choose Becton over Wirfs and effectively Mims over Claypool and others.   His best first round pick was a G picked earlier than usual.  The team really has to nail this draft, and unfortunately for them it will not be an easy draft to nail.  

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