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Building a team doesn’t take a decade


mfmartin
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1 hour ago, slats said:

So now they’re as bad as us in a shorter period of time?

The Jets are nearly unparalleled in long term ineptitude.  😆 

 

Detroit Lions and Cleveland are our peers. If not for Namath, we ARE Detroit. 

I'd your cool with how this is all going, I'm happy for you. I'm tired of garbage, bullsh*t, uncompetitive Football.  

 

JD and his handpicked HC and QB need to sh*t or get off the pot. Looking hapless this season simply can't be tolerated again,  theoretical rebuilds or not. 

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On 4/12/2022 at 4:52 AM, New York Mick said:

Anything less then 5 wins and they need to start over again. 

Really? Like how Gase won 7 and steadily regressed down down down. I give JD 3 years to get us in playoffs. He inherited a CFL roster with overblown contracts and was hired GM AFTER the draft. Brilliant. And wasn’t allowed to pick his own HC. Give it a few. He’s in the right track. 

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14 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

LOL, he unloaded Adams for 2 1sts and Darnold for a 2nd, and you are foolish enough to want him fired before he even gets to draft 2 out of those 3 players? How dare JD not already get elite production from players that aren't on the team yet? Fire him!!

 

Haha.

It's pretty sad that all of his best moves have relied on the absolute idiocy of other GM's. Everyone on the planet knew the Darnold, Adams and Herndon deals were a joke the moment they were made. This speaks far more to their desperation and incompetence than anything else. 

The moves he's made where he's relied on nothing but his own ability to evaluate have been atrocious. Between every free agent signing and every draft pick there's a lot more failures than hits. In fact the only four we can confidently say look like good value are Fant, Hall, Moore and Carter and he's extremely fortunate the latter two fell like they did. 

Kalil, Griffin, Perriman, Jenkins, Desir, Van Roten, Feeney (twice), Curry, Jarrad Davis, Cole, Rankins

Look at that list. That's almost $60m spent on genuine trash - Cripples and losers. Not even JAG's - every one of the above was an actual hindrance on the field if they even made it there. You'd think we're running a make-a-wish with some of those contracts. His big free agency moves - McGovern, Corey Davis, Lawson - Either disappointments or injured. All of that money spent and only George Fant has been a hit. That is terrible by absolutely any measure.

His 2020 draft has been atrocious. A literal non factor in their second season. Obvious moves not taken by a GM who was trying to be too cute. In the middle rounds where teams really find their quality depth we got Zuniga, Morgan and Perine. The latter of which is our worst draft pick since Hackenberg. Sabotage.

The pick they've invested everything in - Zach Wilson - Literally couldn't have looked much worse in 2021. Bottomed out in almost every statistical category after being anointed the starter on day one. Clearly pushed into action before he was ready but we were so confident in Mike White. Until Mike White had to play when we desperately scrambled to sign a vet. Wilson needs almost unprecedented improvement to become a long term viable option or he'll be out after two years. 

Anyone pretending this guy has been anything but a resounding failure to this point is delusional. You have people pretending like rebuilds take 5 years in the NFL when we've seen the Bengals go from worst to almost first in two f*cking years. It's almost impressive how badly he botched the 2020 offseason. That was an opportunity to take a real step forward and we went backwards. People made up their minds with Douglas and are having a hard time accepting the reality right in front of their eyes. 

The cult will keep defending him but if things go as badly as a I suspect they will in 2022 then his support will very quickly erode. His record on the field is atrocious. His signings and draft picks have been atrocious. There is nothing that you can point to that would inspire confidence in him going forward.

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JD is not perfect but he's the best GM we've had in a long time... I get the impatient people wanting WINS NOW, however with the worst roster on the planet, when JD signed, it was going to take him a while to turn it around. This team will start to win if JD gets this draft correct. That will at least be a 2 draft foundation to start to compete. The key is Wilson, if he has it or he doesn't. If he does we have a chance, if he doesn't we don't and will have to yet again find a QB.

The AFC just got stronger with all the offseason trades, so it's not going to be easy, but if you don't like the way JD is going about it, yes minus a few draft head scratchers in 2020 (everyone has them), then there's no hope for you lol...

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7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

7D04D24E-6A82-4EF8-AD9F-989B97B3A083.jpeg

Yea, that was a long time, wished he would have gotten a chance... I believe even though Tanny was GM in title, Mangini was the defacto GM.  Like him a lot. But JD is the best since him.

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1 hour ago, 68JET11 said:

Yea, that was a long time, wished he would have gotten a chance... I believe even though Tanny was GM in title, Mangini was the defacto GM.  Like him a lot. But JD is the best since him.

Mangini sucked. Easily one of the worst coaches in team history, with a legacy that lives only because Brett Favre refused to run Brian Schottenheimer’s playbook. There’s a reason he hasn’t had a legit sniff at a real job since he painted over Jim Brown’s mural in Cleveland. He’s the epitome of failed Belichick assistants. 
 
This allegedly “great” GM also peed his pants and drafted Vernon Gholston when Beli traded up right behind him. And don’t forget the boar hunter, or Ron Jaworski’s favorite QB ever. His cult is probably the strangest thing in all of Jetland. 

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15 hours ago, slats said:

I never said I was glad, but I live in the reality where Joe Douglas is running the show, Saleh is his head coach, and Wilson is his QB. Rather than bitching about them, I’ll root for them.

It's odd perhaps, but some folks are actually capable of doing more than one thing, and are able to hold two separate-but-related thoughts in their heads at once.

Rooting for, and also being critical in evaluation, are not mutually exclusive actions.

15 hours ago, slats said:

This is a crappy franchise we’ve chosen.

Should be the Forum's title header tbqh, lol.

15 hours ago, slats said:

Quality people generally don’t want to come here.

Hmmmm.....

15 hours ago, slats said:

JD and Saleh are probably the most respected people we’ve had in their respective positions since Bill Parcells.

Nope, Rex Ryan was far more respected when he got here than Saleh was when he got here.  Tannenbaum was more respected than JD.  

15 hours ago, slats said:

I’m giving them a chance.

Do we have a choice?  If we say "I'm not giving them a chance" does it mean anything? 

Seems like this is sorta empty rhetoric really.  We all have no choice but to "give them a few more chances", given it isn't up to us, lol.

15 hours ago, slats said:

For me, it beats the hell out of banging my head against the wall clamoring for something that isn’t happening.

I think you think people who want X or Y or Z to happen feel more pain about it that they do.  It's actually quite painless.  For example:

"I, Warfish, would like to draft Wilson at WR at pick @10".

Pain free so far.  And if it doesn't happen, pretty much pain free still.  No "head banging"....unless Metallica comes on randomly my iPod, of course.

15 hours ago, slats said:

I want results this year, too.

I for one have no doubt that you do.  

15 hours ago, slats said:

I want to see a big jump from both Zach and Saleh.

We all do.  In fairness, not really anywhere to go but up when you're the lowest rated QB in the NFL, and win 4 games fielding the worst Defense in Franchise History.

So it's already looking up!  No way they're both repeating those feats in 2022, surely.

15 hours ago, slats said:

I want JD to nail this draft. But while people here are already drawing their line in the sand with these guys, it’s likely that this is probably gonna be another rough year w/l-wise. And I doubt that the Johnsons have an o/u on wins that leads to them cleaning house. So my take just simply works for my well-being. I recommend it, but it seems like people prefer to be pissed off nowadays. Sorry to say, I suspect that it will take a lot for them to change direction in the front office next year. I’m hoping they don’t need to consider it. 

You could certainly be right about Ownership.  More than any time in recent memory, they seem invested for the "long term" in JD and Saleh.

But patience isn't infinite.  JD is a 2 win and 4 win GM so far (following the seemingly accepted "2019 didn't count for JD" meta).

If he's a 2-5 win GM again in 2022, all the long term planning in the world will save him from being on the hotseat in 2023.  

I hope JD isn't managing and Saleh isn't coaching with your belief in their minds, that W/L doesn't matter in 2022.  That wouldn't be wise for them IMO.

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2 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

I get the impatient people wanting WINS NOW

"Impatient"

4-13

2-14

7-9

4-12

5-11

5-11

10-6 lol Fitzy

4-12

8-8

6-10

8-8

11 seasons, only one fluky winning season.

"Impatient", lol.  

This seems to be a constant refrain from the under-25 year old set of fans.  No idea how patient many of us have been, for decades and decades.

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4 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Haha.

It's pretty sad that all of his best moves have relied on the absolute idiocy of other GM's. Everyone on the planet knew the Darnold, Adams and Herndon deals were a joke the moment they were made. This speaks far more to their desperation and incompetence than anything else. 

The moves he's made where he's relied on nothing but his own ability to evaluate have been atrocious. Between every free agent signing and every draft pick there's a lot more failures than hits. In fact the only four we can confidently say look like good value are Fant, Hall, Moore and Carter and he's extremely fortunate the latter two fell like they did. 

Kalil, Griffin, Perriman, Jenkins, Desir, Van Roten, Feeney (twice), Curry, Jarrad Davis, Cole, Rankins

Look at that list. That's almost $60m spent on genuine trash - Cripples and losers. Not even JAG's - every one of the above was an actual hindrance on the field if they even made it there. You'd think we're running a make-a-wish with some of those contracts. His big free agency moves - McGovern, Corey Davis, Lawson - Either disappointments or injured. All of that money spent and only George Fant has been a hit. That is terrible by absolutely any measure.

His 2020 draft has been atrocious. A literal non factor in their second season. Obvious moves not taken by a GM who was trying to be too cute. In the middle rounds where teams really find their quality depth we got Zuniga, Morgan and Perine. The latter of which is our worst draft pick since Hackenberg. Sabotage.

The pick they've invested everything in - Zach Wilson - Literally couldn't have looked much worse in 2021. Bottomed out in almost every statistical category after being anointed the starter on day one. Clearly pushed into action before he was ready but we were so confident in Mike White. Until Mike White had to play when we desperately scrambled to sign a vet. Wilson needs almost unprecedented improvement to become a long term viable option or he'll be out after two years. 

Anyone pretending this guy has been anything but a resounding failure to this point is delusional. You have people pretending like rebuilds take 5 years in the NFL when we've seen the Bengals go from worst to almost first in two f*cking years. It's almost impressive how badly he botched the 2020 offseason. That was an opportunity to take a real step forward and we went backwards. People made up their minds with Douglas and are having a hard time accepting the reality right in front of their eyes. 

The cult will keep defending him but if things go as badly as a I suspect they will in 2022 then his support will very quickly erode. His record on the field is atrocious. His signings and draft picks have been atrocious. There is nothing that you can point to that would inspire confidence in him going forward.

I agree with pretty much everything you said

Joe fan boys want to you to ignore his first draft-which is near a historically bad draft(I dont need another year of mims not playing and hearing becton is "close" to know this while wirfs is a pro bowler.

they want you to ignore the multiple jags or sub jags he brought in

Our roster is one of the worst in football and since Joe got here were have not even reached the level of performance the last guy was fired for. 

I asked my nephew what jersey he wants for this year-he said um save your money they have no stars on the roster that he would be proud to wear. I said what about a Mims or Becton jersey (kidding I would never do that to him) but I did say how about Wilson he said nah it will end up next to my darnold jersey by next year. He will never be a top 10 qb and I sadly agree.

I hold out hope though that by some miracle Joe nails the draft and we can at least compete in games.

Sadly our own division keeps getting exponentially better-the fins roster is now light years ahead of ours 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Nope, Rex Ryan was far more respected when he got here than Saleh was when he got here.  Tannenbaum was more respected than JD.  

I don’t know if there’s a universe where this is true, but it’s not this one. Tanny was Parcells’ bean counter, not a talent evaluator. He was never a respected GM. I loved Rex, but he was passed over in Baltimore and already had a bit of a buffoon thing going on by the time he got here. Unlike Saleh, I really don’t recall him turning down any other interviews/openings to take the Jets job. Every team with an opening, except the Texans, had Saleh at the top or high on their priority list. 

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6 minutes ago, slats said:

I don’t know if there’s a universe where this is true, but it’s not this one. Tanny was Parcells’ bean counter, not a talent evaluator. He was never a respected GM. I loved Rex, but he was passed over in Baltimore and already had a bit of a buffoon thing going on by the time he got here. Unlike Saleh, I really don’t recall him turning down any other interviews/openings to take the Jets job. Every team with an opening, except the Texans, had Saleh at the top or high on their priority list. 

Agree to disagree, I think you've perhaps allowed "Clown Rex" of his later career to lead you to forget how well respected he was in the league when he first arrived in NY, and then after getting us to back to back AFCCG's with Mark "lol" Sanchez as his QB.

It's a moot point, makes no difference really, JD and Saleh could well be the greatest GM and Coach prospects in NFL history.....still won't make a difference if they can't produce a team that wins more than 4 games a year.  Neither are "prospects" now, just like Zach Wilson, they all have a record, and they are what their record says they are till they prove otherwise.

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7 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

Joe Douglas is getting the full 6 years of his contract.  The Johnsons are going to see this one through.  Period, end of story.

Could very well be true. 

They might well be trying something new, the oft-repeated fan idea of "consistency for consistency sake regardless of records".

So in that case, JD would get 2022, 2023 and 2024 before the hammer could fall, although it's rare to have a lame duck Coach or GM generally.

He is as of right now, halfway through his 6 year contract.

So pretty much what I've said all along, JD and Saleh get 2022 and 2023 before Ownership passes judgement.  

 

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16 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

Joe Douglas is getting the full 6 years of his contract.  The Johnsons are going to see this one through.  Period, end of story.

If the Jets win 5 or less games this year his seat will be very very warm....

If Zach wilson throws under 10 TD's again his seat will be on fire.....

The fan base is going into this year with lots of hope and expectations in a stacked AFC.

Don't think alot of losing this year will change some narratives up. Is JD here in 23? I agree most likely BUT a football season, if an ugly one, can be a lifetime in many ways. Just ask Joe Judge

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I predict JD will be getting an extension before his tushie gets the slightest bit warm, so again, all the people predicting he has "1 year to prove it" are incredibly wrong. 

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I don’t think i’ll ever be able to move past the fact that he drafted someone who looks like he is 12 years old and built like an old lady, to QB an NFL team.

And the kid literally goes to Justin Bieber concerts. Can’t make this stuff up.

 

4871199F-63D8-4429-8401-B4D19A687BCA.jpeg

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10 hours ago, slats said:

Mangini sucked. Easily one of the worst coaches in team history, with a legacy that lives only because Brett Favre refused to run Brian Schottenheimer’s playbook. There’s a reason he hasn’t had a legit sniff at a real job since he painted over Jim Brown’s mural in Cleveland. He’s the epitome of failed Belichick assistants. 
 
This allegedly “great” GM also peed his pants and drafted Vernon Gholston when Beli traded up right behind him. And don’t forget the boar hunter, or Ron Jaworski’s favorite QB ever. His cult is probably the strangest thing in all of Jetland. 

Gholston was his one really bad decision, otherwise he was fine. I think he probably made a better GM than a HC.

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9 hours ago, Warfish said:

"Impatient"

4-13

2-14

7-9

4-12

5-11

5-11

10-6 lol Fitzy

4-12

8-8

6-10

8-8

11 seasons, only one fluky winning season.

"Impatient", lol.  

This seems to be a constant refrain from the under-25 year old set of fans.  No idea how patient many of us have been, for decades and decades.

Sure, but those were under different GM/HC. We don't have a good start to the JD/Saleh, but I think things are looking up. It's sucks being a fan of this team, but being one means the good and the bad, and hopefully it's about to turn around. I do understand people on the other side not wanting to be patient, but again, I believe in this tandem more than I've believed in the other ones before us. 

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2 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

Sure, but those were under different GM/HC.

I've never quite understood this argument.

Same team, same owner, same US fans.

We're not impatient.  The Jets are just inept.

If we follow this logic, all Woody has to do it keep changing GM's and Coaches, and by your way of thinking, we Fans NEVER get to be "impatient" about not sucking.

2 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

We don't have a good start to the JD/Saleh, but I think things are looking up.

Given 2020 and 2021, it would be hard to be worse.

2 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

It's sucks being a fan of this team, but being one means the good and the bad, and hopefully it's about to turn around.

You say that like I haven't been a fan for 40 years or so now.  See, that's the thing, after 40 years of mostly ineptitude, I don't really need to be told I'm being "impatient" or that I have to "accept the bad".

How long have you been a fan, honestly?  If you're at 40 years too, then you're just a better man than me with all your forgiving patience.

2 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

I do understand people on the other side not wanting to be patient, but again, I believe in this tandem more than I've believed in the other ones before us. 

Every GM/Coach had people saying exactly what you're saying.  Results are all that matters.  

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13 hours ago, slats said:

Mangini sucked. Easily one of the worst coaches in team history, with a legacy that lives only because Brett Favre refused to run Brian Schottenheimer’s playbook. There’s a reason he hasn’t had a legit sniff at a real job since he painted over Jim Brown’s mural in Cleveland. He’s the epitome of failed Belichick assistants. 
 
This allegedly “great” GM also peed his pants and drafted Vernon Gholston when Beli traded up right behind him. And don’t forget the boar hunter, or Ron Jaworski’s favorite QB ever. His cult is probably the strangest thing in all of Jetland. 

not even close to one of the worst coaches in team history 

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