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For those who think Jeremiah has any insight into Joe D’s thinking…


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1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

I do but so was Becton and Wirfs and Wills, and Thomas, and,Slater and, Sewell. It’s not hard to find elite run blockers. It’s the pass blocking + athleticism that’s more rare and important. 

Yea. To me, he’s comparable to Wirfs who went in the mid teens (that class was deep at OT though). This entire class is like that though. No completely elite prospects. Just a few guys with elite parts to their game. 

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9 hours ago, slats said:

I keep saying, I’m hoping for 7-9-1, just to avoid those double digit losses again. But even at 6, do you just blow it all up again?

Maybe. Why is it such a  radical idea that a guy who had 4 seasons under his belt as a GM and his team consistently is one of the worst teams in the league get canned? 
 

At some point we gotta stop propping this guy up over the Jamal trade and ask the question. When is this team actually going to compete? 

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7 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Maybe. Why is it such a  radical idea that a guy who had 4 seasons under his belt as a GM and his team consistently is one of the worst teams in the league get canned? 
 

At some point we gotta stop propping this guy up over the Jamal trade and ask the question. When is this team actually going to compete? 

It’s more of a radical idea to give him more time. But if they show progress, why not? Les Snead got more years to turn it around 

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Barring an absolute disaster, jd is not going anywhere after this year. His clock was basically reset with Zach last year.

Even if the jets only win 5 games but are competitive and most important Zach shows growth, mgmt is not making a move and honestly, I would agree with it. 
I wound be disappointed with the win total, but Zach proving he is the guy and some of the past and current picks developing are more important to me.

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3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Why is an 'edge' guy who is not a great pass rusher a 6.9 grade guy?  The Travon Walker hype is bizarre.

That's the thing...I really don't know enough about any of these guys to give them the ultimate grade. Just like you and the rest of us, I go on what I read and the little I see on highlight reels. How much of that is gospel I don't know. And I don't know what grade/conclusions JD will arrive at. I've heard/read that Travon Walker has by far the highest ceiling based on raw talent, but Hutch is already a lunch pail, solid type guy who could fit right in and play at a good/high level from the get go. So while Hutch may be the better option now, Travon Walker has such good athletic talents that many think he can be coached up to a higher level than Hutchinson down the road. I guess it all depends on how much a GM trusts his coaching staff to 'coach up' player that he drafts. If Gase was still our HC, I don't think JD would go the Walker rout. But with Saleh? He probably will.

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27 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Maybe. Why is it such a  radical idea that a guy who had 4 seasons under his belt as a GM and his team consistently is one of the worst teams in the league get canned? 
 

At some point we gotta stop propping this guy up over the Jamal trade and ask the question. When is this team actually going to compete? 

Because he hasn't had four years?

 

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59 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

It’s more of a radical idea to give him more time. But if they show progress, why not? Les Snead got more years to turn it around 

6 wins is progress? My god you guys set your standards low.

So is the 2023 goal downgraded from afc East champs to 8 wins? 

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43 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

6 wins is progress? My god you guys set your standards low.

So is the 2023 goal downgraded from afc East champs to 8 wins? 

No, I said progress. Didn’t say anything about wins.

Check out what the Rams did with Les Snead before they became contenders. 

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

3 full seasons

1 he took over in June making ton of transactions  before opening days 

So yea 4 seasons in the GM box 

He was hired on June 7, 2019.  If by ton of transactions you mean sifting through the garbage heap after F/A and the draft were run by Mike Mac, then sure.

He had the 2020 F/A and draft.

He had the 2021 F/A and draft.

He had the 2022 F/A period, and will have the draft.  

After this season, if it is not a winning season, he will be on the hot seat.  He will have one more F/A and draft.  If things don't work out, it could be curtains. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

We would have to judge according to our standards. For me? Zach Wilson shows substantial improvement and the team is way more competitive. What that means to you may be different for me. 

Like I have said before. If the Jets can only win 2 more games then they did last year then Zach didn’t have a good year 2. I think that’s a safe assumption 

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Folks should keep in mind that it's entirely possible that both Edges and Sauce are all gone when we pick at #4.

Reaching for a WR isn't worse than reaching on a Karloftis, or Drafting a Safety (lol), or re-investing in another Tackle again.

With that said, I don't think WR at 4 is necessary.  There will be one worth picking available at #10, hopefully Wilson.

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17 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 

The problem is that, right now, 2 1/2 years into the Douglas Era, the Jets are still viewed as a dead-end destination, and that’s unlikely to change anytime soon if, as you suggest, Douglas is going to be a methodical pragmatist. He’s obviously not on the hot seat yet, but I think that changes if we’re sitting here in last place in December with Wilson looking even average-to-middling. I’m not anti-Douglas, but I think he made a mistake shooting his shot with Zach Wilson, who is clearly talented, but does not inspire anyone. You know what Douglas should try to do in a few weeks? Bring in Garoppolo. I think Zach needs to be pushed and I think Douglas/Saleh need the insurance.

Bah humbug. JD is moving along well. Slow and steady is the fastest way up the mountain.  The OL is light years better. We have weapons in Berrios, MC, the new TE’s and Moore and will add more. We have 4 plus picks in this draft that will make a significant mark. Instant gratification lasts but an instant. Zach matured in the 2nd half and he’s only going to get better.  I’m not delusional thinking we’re making the playoffs or winning 8 games. But I’m looking for this team to take giant leaps in being competitive in every game we play. That’s what I hope to see. Last year we played abysmal for so many reasons: new CS, rookie QB behind a pathetic OL, numerous injuries to key players, lacking personnel to run the offense and defense Saleh and LaFluer needed. It’s mind boggling we were able to even win 4 games.  This coming year, I have great optimism. The CS will be smarter, the roster deeper, the offense will run on 6 cylinders not 4. And the defense will be immeasurably better. 2022 NY Jets will be the best team we’ve seen since 2010. Give it TIME. Things I Must Earn!

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19 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 

The problem is that, right now, 2 1/2 years into the Douglas Era, the Jets are still viewed as a dead-end destination, and that’s unlikely to change anytime soon if, as you suggest, Douglas is going to be a methodical pragmatist. He’s obviously not on the hot seat yet, but I think that changes if we’re sitting here in last place in December with Wilson looking even average-to-middling. I’m not anti-Douglas, but I think he made a mistake shooting his shot with Zach Wilson, who is clearly talented, but does not inspire anyone. You know what Douglas should try to do in a few weeks? Bring in Garoppolo. I think Zach needs to be pushed and I think Douglas/Saleh need the insurance.

You bring up an interesting point. If the Jets brought in Garopollo they would instantly be in the discussion as a potential playoff team. The problem with the Jets is not having an edge rusher or not having a #1 WR - it’s all about the QB. 

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Like I have said before. If the Jets can only win 2 more games then they did last year then Zach didn’t have a good year 2. I think that’s a safe assumption 
What if we're scoring lots but getting outscored by better teams? 35-31 and that sort of score line.

Not saying it's likely to happen, but it is possible for Zach to play well and for us still to lose.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

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17 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Maybe. Why is it such a  radical idea that a guy who had 4 seasons under his belt as a GM and his team consistently is one of the worst teams in the league get canned? 
 

At some point we gotta stop propping this guy up over the Jamal trade and ask the question. When is this team actually going to compete? 

Here's the thing with Douglas.

You might not like it and I know "The Plan" irks people, but it is the reality.  

Joe came in, sat down with the owners and told him what he wanted to do turn around the New York Jets Franchise for the long term.  Ownership agreed and hired him to execute that plan.   They paid him millions of dollars and 6 years to do exactly what he's done.

The goal was to tear the team down to the studs and rebuild it from there - he and ownership knew the tear down would take 2 years on its own.

So again, you don't have to be happy about it, but it is what ownership and Douglas wanted.

Now, I believe the standard GM clock starts this year.  The tear down is complete, the rebuild started last year - this team needs to start winning this year and at worst look like a quality NFL team.

And to be fair to Joe, this team is honestly MUCH better than what it was last year.  If healthy we should absolutely be playing meaningful games in Dec.

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4 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

Bah humbug. JD is moving along well. Slow and steady is the fastest way up the mountain.  The OL is light years better. We have weapons in Berrios, MC, the new TE’s and Moore and will add more. We have 4 plus picks in this draft that will make a significant mark. Instant gratification lasts but an instant. Zach matured in the 2nd half and he’s only going to get better.  I’m not delusional thinking we’re making the playoffs or winning 8 games. But I’m looking for this team to take giant leaps in being competitive in every game we play. That’s what I hope to see. Last year we played abysmal for so many reasons: new CS, rookie QB behind a pathetic OL, numerous injuries to key players, lacking personnel to run the offense and defense Saleh and LaFluer needed. It’s mind boggling we were able to even win 4 games.  This coming year, I have great optimism. The CS will be smarter, the roster deeper, the offense will run on 6 cylinders not 4. And the defense will be immeasurably better. 2022 NY Jets will be the best team we’ve seen since 2010. Give it TIME. Things I Must Earn!

I actually saw 8 wins for this team in 2022, until the FA blitz this offseason. With the glut of player coming to the AFC and already good teams, that will make it harder for us to reach 8 this year which I agree on. I do believe even though that's the case, JD is doing it the correct way. Build the foundation of the team so that all you ever need are pieces in FA from year to year. 

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12 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

So what’s progress again? 

Less than 8-9 wins and I would struggle with that word no matter how good Zach is coming along. Not saying I’d get rid of Douglas just saying he owes us at least 8 wins this season. They need to figure how how to steal 2-3 divisional wins and get to 8. Anything less than that or maybe Zach being a top 10 QB might help if we get like 7 wins, but then again why can’t we get to 8 wins with a top 10 QB? 

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8 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

I actually saw 8 wins for this team in 2022, until the FA blitz this offseason. With the glut of player coming to the AFC and already good teams, that will make it harder for us to reach 8 this year which I agree on. I do believe even though that's the case, JD is doing it the correct way. Build the foundation of the team so that all you ever need are pieces in FA from year to year. 

I think if we stayed healthy last year we may have sniffed 6-7ish. We need to stay healthy this year. That’s why when people start talking about Joe taking chances on injured players it makes me want to flush someone goldfish down the toilet. 

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3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Less than 8-9 wins and I would struggle with that word no matter how good Zach is coming along. Not saying I’d get rid of Douglas just saying he owes us at least 8 wins this season. They need to figure how how to steal 2-3 divisional wins and get to 8. Anything less than that or maybe Zach being a top 10 QB might help if we get like 7 wins, but then again why can’t we get to 8 wins with a top 10 QB? 

Ummmm, I don't know Crush.

Say we finish 7-10, but Zach is producing at ~61-65% Comp, ~3,900+ yards and say ~25 to 13 TD:INT?

I feel like that would adequately be described as "progress".  

It would certainly give me ALOT more faith that maybe Zach might in fact be "the man" for our future.

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3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Here's the thing with Douglas.

You might not like it and I know "The Plan" irks people, but it is the reality.  

Joe came him and sat down with the owners and told him what he wanted to do turn around the New York Jets Franchise for the long term.  Ownership agreed and hired him to execute that plan.   They paid him millions of dollars and 6 years to do exactly what he's done.

The goal was to tear the team down to the studs and rebuild it from there - he and ownership knew the tear down would take 2 years on its own.

So again, you don't have to be happy about it, but it is what ownership and Douglas wanted.

Now, I believe the standard GM clock starts this year.  The tear down is complete, the rebuild started last year - this team needs to start winning this year and at worst look like a quality NFL team.

And to be fair to Joe, this team is honestly MUCH better than what it was last year.  If healthy we should absolutely be playing meaningful games in Dec.

POTW

Thanks.  I feel the same way. We are in minority. 

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19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Why is an 'edge' guy who is not a great pass rusher a 6.9 grade guy?  The Travon Walker hype is bizarre.

I think it will be either KT or Gardner for us at 4 w/outside chance for a trade down or one of the OTs.  

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16 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

3 full seasons

1 he took over in June making ton of transactions  before opening days 

So yea 4 seasons in the GM box 

I'd argue that a "full season" should include the draft and start of FA, but that might be a radical idea, I know

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3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Less than 8-9 wins and I would struggle with that word no matter how good Zach is coming along. Not saying I’d get rid of Douglas just saying he owes us at least 8 wins this season. They need to figure how how to steal 2-3 divisional wins and get to 8. Anything less than that or maybe Zach being a top 10 QB might help if we get like 7 wins, but then again why can’t we get to 8 wins with a top 10 QB? 

I really do believe the fan base is underestimating how much better we are...

The team is lightyears ahead of where we were last year ...

  • Just getting back the ridiculous amount of  injured players alone is a massive upgrade.
  • ZW year two is a massive upgrade - put aside wether you believe he's our future FQB - but at worst he should still be a heck of a lot better.
  • Two biggest, glaring weaknesses on O were filled with talented players in G and TE
  • The Defensive backfield added a #1 CB and a legit safety - two massive weaknesses from last year.
  • The four picks in the top 38 will all be contributors
  • There's still plenty of cap space and still plenty of quality FA's (at positions of need) if Joe doesn't find what he needs in the draft 

The team has far less holes than people think - we have solid NFL starters at just about every position now (we haven't been able to say that for a long time)

IMO, we still need a LB, #1 WR, #1 Edge, another quality RB and a safety (which should all be filled in the draft or remaining FA) - and this team doesn't really have any "holes". Can obviously always upgrade ---- but it's certainly a middle of the pack team at this point.  Expecting 8 to 9 wins is entirely reasonable.

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3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I really do believe the fan base is underestimating how much better we are...

The team is lightyears ahead of where we were last year ...

  • Just getting back the ridiculous amount of  injured players alone is a massive upgrade.
  • ZW year two is a massive upgrade - put aside wether you believe he's our future FQB - but at worst he should still be a heck of a lot better.
  • Two biggest, glaring weaknesses on O were filled with talented players in G and TE
  • The Defensive backfield added a #1 CB and a legit safety - two massive weaknesses from last year.
  • The four picks in the top 38 will all be contributors
  • There's still plenty of cap space and still plenty of quality FA's (at positions of need) if Joe doesn't find what he needs in the draft 

The team has far less holes than people think - we have solid NFL starters at just about every position now (we haven't been able to say that for a long time)

IMO, we still need a LB, #1 WR, #1 Edge, another quality RB and a safety (which should all be filled in the draft or remaining FA) - and this team doesn't really have any "holes". Can obviously always upgrade ---- but it's certainly a middle of the pack team at this point.  Expecting 8 to 9 wins is entirely reasonable.

I'm not so sure.  I think the biggest plus is coaching.  They have installed their system and they should have weeded out the do not/will not/cannot guys.  They certainly seemed to be playing better later in the season.  Particularly on O.  The continuity should be huge because when the season started it was a mess.   They didn't seem worried and stayed the course, keeping their system in place until the team caught up.

Every year we count on getting our injured guys back and every year more guys get injured.  I'm not holding my breath. 

Zach Wilson should be better, but much better?  Was Darnold much better?  Sanchez?  Smith?  I will believe it when I see it. 

They filled some holes, but they also lost Moses and they are counting on Becton who we have not seen yet.  Again, it remains to be seen.  

I like the direction and the slow and steady plan of attack.  In the NFL a couple of plays improvement a game can change 4-6 losses to wins and vice versa.  Hopefully we went in the right direction.  

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9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I'm not so sure.  I think the biggest plus is coaching.  They have installed their system and they should have weeded out the do not/will not/cannot guys.  They certainly seemed to be playing better later in the season.  Particularly on O.  The continuity should be huge because when the season started it was a mess.   They didn't seem worried and stayed the course, keeping their system in place until the team caught up.

Every year we count on getting our injured guys back and every year more guys get injured.  I'm not holding my breath. 

Zach Wilson should be better, but much better?  Was Darnold much better?  Sanchez?  Smith?  I will believe it when I see it. 

They filled some holes, but they also lost Moses and they are counting on Becton who we have not see yet.  Again, it remains to be seen.  

I like the direction and the slow and steady plan of attack.  In the NFL a couple of plays improvement a game can change 4-6 losses to wins and vice versa.  Hopefully we went in the right direction.  

Yes, I agree - second year in the same system on both O and D is a big deal.  And you're right will likely be the bigger needle mover than any other move...

But...I think the upgrades to the talent are bigger than you're recognizing - specifically because they're at the position that were the most glaring weaknesses.  Moreover, the team isn't finished - when did we bring in Moses last year?  They're surely bringing in another backup T - we'll see how it plays out.

Injuries - we have to hope we're mostly healthy, yes - don't hold your breath, I get that - but any team that had the injuries we had last year weren't going to be any good - I don't care who it was.  So if that happens, doesn't really matter what they do.  

And lastly yes.  It's a few plays a week that can separate 4 wins from 8 wins.  I think we've added that and it's why come December I expect to watching games that have playoff implications.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, I agree - second year in the same system on both O and D is a big deal.  And you're right will likely be the bigger needle mover than any other move...

But...I think the upgrades to the talent are bigger than you're recognizing - specifically because they're at the position that were the most glaring weaknesses.  Moreover, the team isn't finished - when did we bring in Moses last year?  They're surely bringing in another backup T - we'll see how it plays out.

Injuries - we have to hope we're mostly healthy, yes - don't hold your breath, I get that - but any team that had the injuries we had last year weren't going to be any good - I don't care who it was.  So if that happens, doesn't really matter what they do.  

And lastly yes.  It's a few plays a week that can separate 4 wins from 8 wins.  I think we've added that and it's why come December I expect to watching games that have playoff implications.

Well, I hope you are right.   I feel like there is hope and these guys seem like they are headed in the right direction.  They have to actually start travelling that way now though and that is the hard part.  

The only one of my other statements I will stand  up for here is the don't hold your breath on the injuries.  We have been having a tough time with injuries for several years now.  I don't know if it is the facilities, the coaches, or the players that they select, but it seems like a trend more than luck at this point. 

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16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The only one of my other statements I will stand  up for here is the don't hold your breath on the injuries.  We have been having a tough time with injuries for several years now.  I don't know if it is the facilities, the coaches, or the players that they select, but it seems like a trend more than luck at this point. 

Because I’m too lazy right now, someone else should look up the Giants’ injury numbers the last few years. That MetLife turf has been accused of causing injuries, before. Wouldn’t be shocking if they had the same turf at their state of the art training facility, either. I agree, it’s been a persistent problem. I do think the losing culture might keep some players on the IR longer, too. 

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18 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

So what’s progress again? 

Progress is carving 2 more points off the Jets -11.4 margin of victory from the 2021 season. In 2020 the Jets margin of victory was -13.4. We are on pace with JD almost done with his 3rd full off-season to have an MOV of -9.4. In other words, the 2022 Jets will be good as the 2021 Giants...if everything falls right the 2022 Jets could be as good as the 2021 Detroit Lions. 

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6 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I think if we stayed healthy last year we may have sniffed 6-7ish. We need to stay healthy this year. That’s why when people start talking about Joe taking chances on injured players it makes me want to flush someone goldfish down the toilet. 

The thing is, you need a lot of injury prone players.  There is a bunch of "best ability is availability" chatter, but I think the real issue is the talent behind those guys.   There is a big difference between Elijah Moore going down and being replaced by Jeff Smith and Elijah Moore going down and being replaced by Jameson Williams.  Same will hopefully happen with EDGE, say Lawson, Thibo/Johnson and Jacob Martin would hopefully be better than Shaq Lawson.   It isn't bad losing guys to injury when you have solid guys behind them, but when you are dragging guys in off the street and starting them at safety, you have a problem.  I think they really helped their depth and next man up will mean something different next year.

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