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Declare top 4 players on the board for Jets


Phillyjet
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We are close enough to draft day to put a label on the top 4. For me, it plays now as:

1) Kayvon Thibodeaux

2) Aidan Hutchinson

3) Ikem Ekwonu

4) Sauce Gardner

One of those four will be Jets.  Hard to get a read on what they think of Travon Walker, but I would think Joe values production.  Makes me lean Sauce over him at 4.   I suspect Hutchinson is a lock for the top 2.  KT will make it to 3, but could see the Texans taking him, or a team trading up for him.  Been slow to warm up to KT, but I’m all in now.  The banter about him seems like a play to make him drop.  Couple of data points:

1) His tape is really good for a guy who is deemed as “lazy”.  That explosive first step and the ability to counter with many moves makes him elite talent.  He will be a disruptor from day 1, and this guy is not a Maybin/pass rush specialist.  He plays the run really well.

2) He is “not flexible enough”:  This one’s got a head of steam now.  But where do you factor in his high ankle sprain last year.  How many guys can bend on a high ankle sprain… calling bullsh*t on that one.

3) He doesn’t care about football:  This was the toughest one, and he can certainly say knucklehead things sometimes, but I think some of his comments are now being taken out of context and have taken on a life of their own.  Particularly the one about him not needing a coach to tell him what he does wrong.  All he was saying was that he is his worst critic.  Saleh can handle a guy like this… and we need juice.  Worth the risk… he instantly changes the stigma of that defense.

4) History in the last few years has been for “unnamed sources” killing Herbert and Sewell from Oregon… Pac12 is so far away from the east coast that this smells like bullsh*t again.  KT doesn’t make it out of the top 8, mark my words.  His floor is likely 5 with the Giants.

I agree now that KT is the pick if he is there… and Ekwonu if not.  If Ekwonu is the pick, then my preference would be a trade-back at 10, vs. Jermaine Johnson if he is there, but would consider one of the receivers as well.  Drafting a receiver would be for need, which is so opposite what JD usually does… I really can see him waiting til round 2 for a receiver to drop.  I like Pickens, Jahan Dotson, Skyy Moore, or a receiving tight end in Round 2-3, more than reaching for a WR at 10.  People are sleeping on Elijah Moore; the Jets believe he is an interchangeable X and slot.  They are looking for the same again.  What they do at 10 will be more fascinating than what they do at 4, which will be BPA, KT vs. Ekwonu.

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1. Ekwonu

2. Hutch

3. Thib

4. Sauce

But while I think their 'board' has these guys as the top 4, I don't nec. think they will stick to it religiously.

I could see them passing on Ekwonu and Sauce for a pass rusher if JJ is 5th on their board- for example. Because otherwise, they may end up completely missing out on the top tier pass rushers in this class.

Similarly, if JD is dead set on addressing the WR position and Wilson is 5th on his board, I could see him passing on one of his top 4 prospects to take the top WR in the draft. 

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1 minute ago, David Harris said:

Hutch

thibs

walker

icky

think this is very plausible… hard to get a read on whether they truly have three edges ranked before the first OT.  Not a lot of smoke connecting Walker and the Jets. But I am feeling much better now that there are 4-5 elite talents available.  The drop to the big next tier starts at 6, assuming there isn’t a QB in the top 5.  That’s why 10 is somewhat no-man’s land. Who you get at 10 will be comparable to who you get at 20.  If the Jets could slide back a few picks from 10 and get a pick next year, or additional picks in rounds 2-3, that would be ideal.  

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Ozzie newsomes’ draft saying is

”know what you are looking for and what you are looking at “

Maccagnan fell in love with hack and Darnold. you seem to at least have a crush on KT and are forgiving red flags. 
 

no prospect is perfect. You have to acknowledge the red flags and put them on the scale 

If 3 edges are gone, you take Wilson

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Larz said:

Ozzie newsomes’ draft saying is

”know what you are looking for and what you are looking at “

Maccagnan fell in love with hack and Darnold. you seem to at least have a crush on KT and are forgiving red flags. 
 

no prospect is perfect. You have to acknowledge the red flags and put them on the scale 

If 3 edges are gone, you take Wilson

 

 

No crush on KT…. I have only arrived at this conclusion this week… but I don’t think the production or tape lies. Every prospect has red flags, but his game tape doesn’t lie.  He can be special.  Will he be special?  That’s the intangible part of this, but I think as draft day approaches, talk of KT dropping will recede.  

Taking Wilson at 4 makes no sense, unless we are solely picking for need.  Where would he have been rated in last year’s draft?  Would you slot him in comparable to Jamarr Chase?  What are his flaws, He can easily be jammed at the line by physical press corners.  How much better is he than Elijah Moore?  Wilson makes more sense at 10, and even then I would rather drop back a few and pick from among him, London, Burks, or Williams….the separation in talent is not there. 

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What is amazing here is we have seen on this very forum, thread after thread ripping Mr. Coffee for taking DT afrer DT high because they were the BPA formula and totally ignored need. Now we actually have what should be 2 solid OT already on the team but seems like a lot of people would be happy to take another one in Ekwonu. If Ekwonu is the 4th pick, it's banners and billboards time.

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My three highest rated players in the draft are 

ICKEY

SAUCE

HAMILTON

Either Ickey or Sauce would be worthy of the # 4 pick, with Hamilton being a consideration based largely on intangibles 

Number four on my big board would be Hutch, but I DO NOT want the Jets to take him with number 4. 

Since prior to the combine, I have been LOUDLY touting Sauce and Iceky as the two best players in the draft.  I have also been saying that Becton is a bust and the JETS MUST draft Ickey as a replacement.

And now... (By all means call BS), I have inside info that confirms that the Jets brass very much wants to get what they can in trade for Becton and draft his replacement. 

The worry is that either the Jags or Texans are going to take Ickey because they realize how good he is.

I dont have any info on what the Jets will do if Ickey is gone by 4.  Only that they want to move on from BEcton and that they also suspect Ickey will be gone by 4.

So, in that event, who do they Jets take at 4 ??? Sauce ??? OT Neal ??? Hamilton ??? Trade down a few spots ????

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1. Hutch

2. Thibs                                                                                                                                                  

3. Sauce                                                                                                                                                        

4. Wilson 

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

What is amazing here is we have seen on this very forum, thread after thread ripping Mr. Coffee for taking DT afrer DT high because they were the BPA formula and totally ignored need. Now we actually have what should be 2 solid OT already on the team but seems like a lot of people would be happy to take another one in Ekwonu. If Ekwonu is the 4th pick, it's banners and billboards time.

Fant is under contract for one more season and Becton is somewhat of a question mark coming off this injury with the draft in 10 days. How taking a tackle is banners and billboards time is ridiculous.  Taking a CB or safety because they are BPA is more in line with Macc's failed drafts.  I'm fine with Ekwonu or Neal, along with Hutch or Thibs. Not sold on Walker. I can understand Johnson is they think he is the real deal.  I will be furious with Gardner or Hamilton.  I can live with Wilson at 4 if they love him.  

Hutch

Thibs

Ekwonu

Johnson

Neal

Wilson

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56 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Fant is under contract for one more season and Becton is somewhat of a question mark coming off this injury with the draft in 10 days. How taking a tackle is banners and billboards time is ridiculous.  Taking a CB or safety because they are BPA is more in line with Macc's failed drafts.  I'm fine with Ekwonu or Neal, along with Hutch or Thibs. Not sold on Walker. I can understand Johnson is they think he is the real deal.  I will be furious with Gardner or Hamilton.  I can live with Wilson at 4 if they love him.  

Hutch

Thibs

Ekwonu

Johnson

Neal

Wilson

We have 2 OT who would if traded now would be starting on any team in the NFL. Taking an OT is a waste

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2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

We have 2 OT who would if traded now would be starting on any team in the NFL. Taking an OT is a waste

Becton probably isnt on the roster if Ekonwu is the pick.

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Just now, More Cowbell said:

We have 2 OT who would if traded now would be starting on any team in the NFL. Taking an OT is a waste

I have a hard time with this.  On one hand, you are 100% correct.  On the other hand, the Jets are trying to not just build the team for this year, but for the future as well.  After Fans leaves via free agency after this season, we will have a hole at tackle.  Do you think the Jets want to pay Fant $15M per year, which is what he will probably want? Why haven't the Jets extended Fant up until now.  Will Becton finally be able to play an entire season after missing 95% of last season, and a good part of season #1?  Do the Jets have a backup plan to protect Zach if Becton gets injured again?  

If the Jets take Ekwonu, the upgrade over Fant is immediate, if you believe that Fant is average at the tackle spot.  

Of course, your answer is correct, as I have mentioned, but do you think that Joe Douglas should even consider the points I mentioned, or perhaps pick a lower tier tackle later on in the draft, or not even address it?  Not addressing it would certainly give Fant great bargaining power come the offseason.  How about if Fant doesn't live up to the playing standard of the last half of last season?  

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

What is amazing here is we have seen on this very forum, thread after thread ripping Mr. Coffee for taking DT afrer DT high because they were the BPA formula and totally ignored need. Now we actually have what should be 2 solid OT already on the team but seems like a lot of people would be happy to take another one in Ekwonu. If Ekwonu is the 4th pick, it's banners and billboards time.

You are not accounting for the fact there is a very real possibility we could go into 2023 with no viable starting OTs. Fant on last year, Becton a giant ? And injuries. We may not have a chance to take a starting caliber in the next draft. Not saying we should take one at 4 but it is a logical choice.

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It's interesting to look at a couple things.

1. We have no idea what the Jets think of Cross or Neal. They are always associated with Icky, but if the draft goes EDGE EDGE EDGE these guys may be in play.

2. No idea how they grade the EDGE players. Interestingly the one thing that Saleh and JD have said publicly with any weight was Saleh at the combine saying that he does not feel there is an elite guy but a bunch of very good ones. That doesn't scream picking one at 4 or even 10 to me.

3. They are clearly interested in receiver. They seem to have brought in everyone but London which of course could mean they like London the best. WR may not have last years grades but I am not sure any of the top guys even get to the second because of what is happening at receiver.

4. No one mentions DT because we are all completely ruined by all the previous ones but to think Davis s not in play is foolish. 

5. Not all teams draft the players they coach in the Senior Bowl, but most seem to. I have seen Penning associated with the Jets but not Winfrey, Watson any of the TEs or even Walker.

6. Also from the combine, Saleh hinted strongly there is a "unicorn" in the draft but maybe not at the highest value position. It was assumed this meant Hamilton but could also be Gardner or Stingley. I am on record as saying the Jets under Saleh/JD would never draft a first round corner but at 4 one of these guys may be graded at a higher tier than any of the others.

7. The last "no QB will be taken high" draft I remember was the year Trubisky went 3. Would be shocking if at least 1 or 2 don't ultimately go in Top 10

8. LB is never associated with the Jets but you could make an argument that LB is one of the very top needs for this team.

9. Personal opinion:  I think JD is a man of his word and will focus a lot on Zach. I see many drafts with defense all 4 picks, or only WR. I will be surprised if at least 2 are not on offense.

10. This is the least predictable NFL draft I can remember. Usually at this time, we can pencil in much of the Top 10 but not this one. I am actually going to do a mock draft (up to 38) just to see how close I can get. I might get all 10 wrong.

 

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3 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

We are close enough to draft day to put a label on the top 4. For me, it plays now as:

1) Kayvon Thibodeaux

2) Aidan Hutchinson

3) Ikem Ekwonu

4) Sauce Gardner

One of those four will be Jets.  Hard to get a read on what they think of Travon Walker, but I would think Joe values production.  Makes me lean Sauce over him at 4.   I suspect Hutchinson is a lock for the top 2.  KT will make it to 3, but could see the Texans taking him, or a team trading up for him.  Been slow to warm up to KT, but I’m all in now.  The banter about him seems like a play to make him drop.  Couple of data points:

1) His tape is really good for a guy who is deemed as “lazy”.  That explosive first step and the ability to counter with many moves makes him elite talent.  He will be a disruptor from day 1, and this guy is not a Maybin/pass rush specialist.  He plays the run really well.

2) He is “not flexible enough”:  This one’s got a head of steam now.  But where do you factor in his high ankle sprain last year.  How many guys can bend on a high ankle sprain… calling bullsh*t on that one.

3) He doesn’t care about football:  This was the toughest one, and he can certainly say knucklehead things sometimes, but I think some of his comments are now being taken out of context and have taken on a life of their own.  Particularly the one about him not needing a coach to tell him what he does wrong.  All he was saying was that he is his worst critic.  Saleh can handle a guy like this… and we need juice.  Worth the risk… he instantly changes the stigma of that defense.

4) History in the last few years has been for “unnamed sources” killing Herbert and Sewell from Oregon… Pac12 is so far away from the east coast that this smells like bullsh*t again.  KT doesn’t make it out of the top 8, mark my words.  His floor is likely 5 with the Giants.

I agree now that KT is the pick if he is there… and Ekwonu if not.  If Ekwonu is the pick, then my preference would be a trade-back at 10, vs. Jermaine Johnson if he is there, but would consider one of the receivers as well.  Drafting a receiver would be for need, which is so opposite what JD usually does… I really can see him waiting til round 2 for a receiver to drop.  I like Pickens, Jahan Dotson, Skyy Moore, or a receiving tight end in Round 2-3, more than reaching for a WR at 10.  People are sleeping on Elijah Moore; the Jets believe he is an interchangeable X and slot.  They are looking for the same again.  What they do at 10 will be more fascinating than what they do at 4, which will be BPA, KT vs. Ekwonu.

Are we listing the top 4 players we would choose or the top 4 players we think the jets will choose?

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