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Updates from the Kayvon visit


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2 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

We don't have to trade him.  He would be a really good swing tackle (unlike what we have now) although I'm sure he wouldn't be happy about it. He could start if one of the other tackles isn't ready or gets hurt  Wouldn't be the end of the world.  Depth on OL is huge as someone seems to get hurt nearly every year.

I don’t think the Jets are good enough to take a depth player, and specifically a guy who needs another player to get hurt in order to get on the field fourth overall either. Day two? Absolutely. Other positions rotate so at least guys would get snaps if they’re not starters - the OL has a more stark divide between starters and backup

Also, both Fant and Becton have LT experience, so the real need is for a backup right tackle - a-la Moses last year. And again, Ekwonu has pass protection questions. With a young QB I kind of think you want to know what you’re getting. A veteran makes more sense for the team and is a more efficient use of assets, but most things are more efficient than a fourth overall pick on tackle depth. 

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I tend to agree with this - the whole bad attitude thing is way overblown.  I think when all's said and done - the draft will go like everyone thought before all this sh*t came out.

Hutch 1, Thib 2.

Maybe I am alone but I really want to see what Huff can do with another offseason and being healthy. He was really coming on before injuries sort of limited him after he had that 2 sack game. Had he played enough he would be in the elite category of PRWR

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46 minutes ago, section314 said:

Fant was rated the 3rd best OT in the league last year I believe. You would definitely get something for him. I would guess at worst a 3rd.

Fant was an above-average pass protector. He was below average in run blocking. He graded out like the 30th best tackle overall. This system prioritizes run blocking, by the way 

As for KT, let's walk this dog. The jets draft him. He gets 10 sacks. 

How many more wins is that? 

They need edge but it's not going to move the needle when the offense still sucks 

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2 hours ago, ryu79 said:

I just don't think he will be there. Seems to good to be true that he'd fall in our lap at four if the biggest knock is a desire to build his brand...

Lions love him.

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6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Maybe I am alone but I really want to see what Huff can do with another offseason and being healthy. He was really coming on before injuries sort of limited him after he had that 2 sack game. Had he played enough he would be in the elite category of PRWR

I think Huff is undervalued by this fan base.  I don't see him as elite though and we really don't know what Lawson is going to be when he comes back.   Even with Lawson and #4 healthy, Huff will get plenty of playing time.

After this year the Jets can get out of the Lawson contract, if Huff plays at a high level and whatever edge they draft is good - they can move on from Lawson.

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I think JD needs to wait until the 2nd round to draft an OT.  However, he shouldn't wait much longer than that.  Fant has missed 4 games in the past 2 years and Becton has missed a bunch, 16 last year and 2 or 3 the year before.  The swing tackle on the Jets is likely to start at least several games next year.

Maybe JD can find another Moses quality player on the cheap, but the team still needs a good young OT to develop and possibly start very soon. McDermott and Edoga are crap, and Fant will be a free agent after this year.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Fant was an above-average pass protector. He was below average in run blocking. He graded out like the 30th best tackle overall. This system prioritizes run blocking, by the way 

As for KT, let's walk this dog. The jets draft him. He gets 10 sacks. 

How many more wins is that? 

They need edge but it's not going to move the needle when the offense still sucks 

Not sure you can look at it that linearly.

Having another good pass rusher on one side can also make life easier for Lawson and the interior guys (QW). It takes pressure of the secondary. A 3rd and long stop twice a game (as an example) above what we did last year may reduce points against us and takes some pressure off the offense. It can also add 2 or more possessions per game to work with....maybe with good field position.

No doubt the offense (and Zach) needs more weapons, but as we saw in the Super Bowl, a defense's ability to come up with a stop at key points in a game can lead to wins. An additional stud pass rusher can move that needle more than any other defensive position.

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4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

To be fair, it's not just KT's production in isolation that matters. 

If KT is legit edge presence right away and Lawson comes back strong (two huge IFs), you suddenly have a much, much better pass rush. JFM gest to play inside, QW faces fewer double teams, Huff can be the 3rd rotational edge piece that he is meant to be. 

Lawson is a huge key for this team this year. 

OK great 

Lets say the defense gets much better with KT. Best case scenario. 

The Jets scored 18.2 ppg last year. 28th overall 

No matter how much better the defense gets, They aren't going to win games scoring 19 points on offense 

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Just now, bitonti said:

OK great 

Lets say the defense gets much better with KT. Best case scenario. 

The Jets scored 18.2 ppg last year 

No matter how much better the defense gets, They aren't going to win games scoring 19 points on offense 

Right, they need help on both sides of the ball. Not arguing there, but edge is a major, major, major (underline major 37 times) need for this team. 

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

He was a top 10 guy in pressures, didn't get the sack numbers you wanted but Carl Lawson is a quality Edge and will be a massive upgrade over what we had.

Draft Thib plus a healthy Huff to rotate in and move JFM back to the inside.  Should really solve a lot of the Jets major problems from last year.  

JFM moving inside isn't going to make the defense better at stopping the run. The only dude I see that can make that possibly happen is Jordan Davis. That man will require double teams which should free up both EDGE's and QW if he plays at all with some fire.

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4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Right, they need help on both sides of the ball. Not arguing there, but edge is a major, major, major (underline major 37 times) need for this team. 

Joe Douglas' top priority is the development of Zach wilson 

Yes they need edge rush too. But drafting KT does not directly help Zach wilson 

Edge rush is needed to win a championship. Jd just needs this team to be entertaining on offense 

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2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

It's possible the Walker stuff is just smoke but it feels very likely he's in the mix too.

I think if the board breaks the way you're suggesting we take Icky and trade Becton.

I don't see the need to trade Becton on a down year for him. If anything if we do draft Icky, then I see him competing with Fant this year, and Becton goes over to RT.

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5 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

I don't see the need to trade Becton on a down year for him. If anything if we do draft Icky, then I see him competing with Fant this year, and Becton goes over to RT.

It depends what the market is for Becton -- I'd agree that Douglas won't flip him for peanuts.

But like, the 4th overall pick needs to be an instant plus starter and contributor for us. It can't be a guy we groom, who is brought in to compete. That's why it's a curious pick -- if you believe in Fant and Becton (with AVT and Tomlinson heavily invested in) where do all these guys play?

The assumption is if you're taking Icky you view him as day one RT and future franchise LT, replacing Becton. It's also possible they don't want to extend Fant and want to flip him when his value is high -- but it's tough to bring in a player at 4 overall when you have two penciled in starters and so many needs elsewhere.

That said it's kind of how I see this trending, as I don't think Hutch or KT are there at 4.

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32 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

JFM moving inside isn't going to make the defense better at stopping the run. The only dude I see that can make that possibly happen is Jordan Davis. That man will require double teams which should free up both EDGE's and QW if he plays at all with some fire.

JFM was a far more productive player inside.  Of course it will make them better.  Upgrading both Edges, will make the run game better.

I would be far less concerned about the running game with a healthy Lawson, #4 overall at Edge and  JFM on the interior.  We don't have to be the #1 run D in the league - just can't be incompetent.

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9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

JFM was a far more productive player inside.  Of course it will make them better.  Upgrading both Edges, will make the run game better.

I would be far less concerned about the running game with a healthy Lawson, #4 overall at Edge and  JFM on the interior.  We don't have to be the #1 run D in the league - just can't be incompetent.

Not saying we have to be #1 run defense, but they were horrible, and just the return of Lawson is a ? mark, and drafting one is as well no matter who we take. So with JFM moving inside doesn't make me warm and fuzzy. We need a big body on the inside to make teams think about doubling him up. If they don't a guy like JD might get more sacks then any of the Edge's we have on the outside lol...

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3 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Not saying we have to be #1 run defense, but they were horrible, and just the return of Lawson is a ? mark, and drafting one is as well no matter who we take. So with JFM moving inside doesn't make me warm and fuzzy. We need a big body on the inside to make teams think about doubling him up. If they don't a guy like JD might get more sacks then any of the Edge's we have on the outside lol...

I've said this elsewhere but it bears repeating.  Our run defense was much more affected by crappy LB and Safety play, than it was by bad DT play.  Our biggest problems were two guys named Davis (Jarred and Ashtyn).  I don't think adding another Davis (Jordan) will fix the issue.  I get that some people love the athleticism but if nobody can tackle RBs past the LOS, we are going to get gashed again this year... a lot.

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33 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I'd argue that improving the pass rush absolutely helps Zach Wilson, but regardless, Douglas has to start winning some games or the media is going to turn on him and things will get ugly very quickly. 

The defense was an abomination last year and gave us no chance to win at least three games (Atlanta, Philly, 2nd NE game). Wilson was also put in tough spots like having to match Philly scoring on their first seven possessions of the game or being down 17-0 after three long Atlanta drives in London. 

A better pass rush helps everyone. 

I think you'd have to add the Colts game to that list. 

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3 hours ago, HighPitch said:

I love the whole carl love. Seriously who was he before the jets? Guys talk him up like hes reggie white

Agreed.

Carl Lawson has been an above average to very good player, but he's never been JJ Watt, Khalil Mack, Myles Garrett, etc.

With that said, he seems like exactly the kind of guy the Jets want both from a leadership/culture/hardwork perspective and his talent.  Really hoping he recovers to at least 90% of what he was.  If so, he's still the best Edge rusher the Jets have had in a decade.  This Draft should only add to the possibility the Jets finally jumpstart a pass rush capability they haven't had in a long, long time.

The younger guys won't remember this but the Sack Exchange days were some of the most fun and entertaining times to be a Jets fan.  I think Saleh is the HC that gives us the best chance to return to something like those days.  And, this is the Draft to kickstart it.

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16 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Love hearing this update and hope he falls to the Jets.  The knocks on his personality have been stupid and unfounded. 

The knocks on his personality aren't of the type that really concern me.  I've never heard that he's a bad locker room guy or that he's lazy (other than a guy who "took some plays off" after rushing really hard on a few plays).  He clearly has some goals off the football field and post-NFL, but so do most of these guys.  And, if anything, I believe Thibodeaux knows that to really give himself a great brand and good post-NFL opportunities the way to do that is to succeed on the field and be popular with a wide fanbase.  Lazy, me-first guys don't develop great brands off the field.  My concern with him isn't now, it's what things might look like in 3-5 years when he might be up for his next contract.... Does he cash-in big time on the mega deal as a 25 year old and then immediately start thinking about life after football.  But for now, I think we'd be getting a very talented and motivated player.

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4 hours ago, HighPitch said:

I love the whole carl love. Seriously who was he before the jets? Guys talk him up like hes reggie white

He's the guy that literally dominated Becton all of camp before his achilles exploded in the first scrimmage,. 

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19 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

The knocks on his personality aren't of the type that really concern me.  I've never heard that he's a bad locker room guy or that he's lazy (other than a guy who "took some plays off" after rushing really hard on a few plays).  He clearly has some goals off the football field and post-NFL, but so do most of these guys.  And, if anything, I believe Thibodeaux knows that to really give himself a great brand and good post-NFL opportunities the way to do that is to succeed on the field and be popular with a wide fanbase.  Lazy, me-first guys don't develop great brands off the field.  My concern with him isn't now, it's what things might look like in 3-5 years when he might be up for his next contract.... Does he cash-in big time on the mega deal as a 25 year old and then immediately start thinking about life after football.  But for now, I think we'd be getting a very talented and motivated player.

People took his concerns for having a brand and made it into, he doesnt care about Football.  It's silly pre-draft nonsense that has honestly made me really frustrated with the draft in the past few years.  Players care about brand and they have for years.  Now even more so in college because they get paid specifically for their brand.  It was a very weird/strange thing to attack him for and I'm glad in recent week it's seemingly being put to rest. 

 

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

OK great 

Lets say the defense gets much better with KT. Best case scenario. 

The Jets scored 18.2 ppg last year. 28th overall 

No matter how much better the defense gets, They aren't going to win games scoring 19 points on offense 

A lot of our hoped-for improvement on offense has to come from Zach Year 2 vs. Zach Year 1. Organic growth so to speak.

Yes, adding pieces around him will be a benefit, but we shouldn't be expecting that we'll repeat last year's 18.2ppg as we currently stand. We have a lot of young guys - Zach, Moore, Carter, AVT - that should be better. Davis will hopefully be more productive assuming he's healthy. We already upgraded at G and TE this offseason. If all that still leads to 19ppg then that will be a major disappointment, and likely lead to serious questioning about Zach heading into Year 3. 

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5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I tend to agree with this - the whole bad attitude thing is way overblown.  I think when all's said and done - the draft will go like everyone thought before all this sh*t came out.

Hutch 1, Thib 2.

Imagine how stupidly LT would have fallen with this kind of draft process.

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5 hours ago, HighPitch said:

I love the whole carl love. Seriously who was he before the jets? Guys talk him up like hes reggie white

He's the Reggie White of almost getting to the quarterback. Bengals made a huge mistake letting him go and instead opting to sign Trey Hendrickson.

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5 hours ago, THE BARON said:

If they are as sure as I hear they are that Becton is total flake, Fant will be sticking around. 

Where did you hear this? 

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33 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The Jets have such a recent history of taking the “clean” prospect near the top of the draft and it turns out underwhelming.  I am willing to take the swing on a potential star.  These are the types of moves than can jump the franchise forward.  I’ll be happier than a pig in slop if KT is a Jet

I wish I could like this post again. 

We need to swing for the fences in this draft. 

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