HighPitch Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 On 4/18/2022 at 9:05 AM, FidelioJet said: He was a top 10 guy in pressures, didn't get the sack numbers you wanted but Carl Lawson is a quality Edge and will be a massive upgrade over what we had. Draft Thib plus a healthy Huff to rotate in and move JFM back to the inside. Should really solve a lot of the Jets major problems from last year. Yea ok ive heard that a million times. ? just the fact that you and a few others had to respond to me to explain what he is all about is concerning. The response i would rather have is “do you watch fb at all?” Or just ridicule. My point here is i never heard of the dude before and when anyone defends him its always “ oh he never had much success actually sacking, but he gets close” Thats fine but a lot of posters here have that mentality where IF he is healthy, he will be a game changer and i just dont see it. Love to be wrong tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClashFan Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 8 hours ago, jetstream23 said: You could be right, however Edoga played less than McDermott in 2021. Here's what I have from Pro Football Reference for 2021.... Edoga appeared in 5 games for the Jets (that means a minimum of 1 snap in 5 different games). He didn't start any. Conor McDermott appeared in 6 games, he started 3 of them. Morgan Moses appeared in 17 games, starting 16. Fant appeared in 15 games, starting all 15 of them. Becton started 1 game. My point remains the same, the Jets are on shaky ground going into the 2022 season relying on only Becton and Fant as truly capable OTs. Odds are that McDermott and Edoga will see more playing time than we want, especially with Moses gone. They're not horrible backups but we don't want them playing more than a game or two. We all saw Week 18 vs Buffalo when the Jets gave up 9 sacks. For 2023, it only gets worse. Becton is slated to be the only starting-caliber OT under contract as 2022 is Fant's last season unless the Jets extend him this Summer. Without drafting an OT this year Joe Douglas has a shaky depth chart for 2022, and he has a glaring hole in 2023 in at least one starting OT spot. This assumes Becton has a healthy and successful 2022 season which is not a given. Out of 33 career games Becton has played in only 14 of them, and this is during what should be the healthiest and youngest 2 years of his career. As it stands now, in 10 months JD would be heading into Free Agency needing to sign a starting OT. I'll stick to my belief that the Jets need to Draft an OT within their first 4 picks this year (4, 10, 35, 38). Nearly totally agree (I think McDermott and Edoga are worse than you do). I do think JD should wait and grab an OT in the 2nd, but no later. There's no way that either Fant or Becton starts all 17 games each. The Jets are going to need a 3rd guy who will likely start at least several games, and they definitely need a good young developmental OT. They can get both by grabbing one in the 2nd round. The later he waits, the more likely he drafts a dud. If I were JD I'd draft an OT in the 2nd and also try to grab a one year vet stopgap as well. Fant misses a couple of games every year and Becton is a huge risk...what if he gets hurt early on again? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, HighPitch said: Yea ok ive heard that a million times. ? just the fact that you and a few others had to respond to me to explain what he is all about is concerning. The response i would rather have is “do you watch fb at all?” Or just ridicule. My point here is i never heard of the dude before and when anyone defends him its always “ oh he never had much success actually sacking, but he gets close” Thats fine but a lot of posters here have that mentality where IF he is healthy, he will be a game changer and i just dont see it. Love to be wrong tho backside pursuit on this is tough to watch. Seems to have learned the stand over the pile move from past Jets. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 13 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said: Don't you think JD is starting to feel the pressure? He's in his third draft. He's 1 for 2 (and the one he missed on, 2020, is really, really bad). Don't you think he has to nail this one? I'm on the side of give JD and Saleh 3-4 years at least. But I don't think they have that long. They've got to hit a home run. I think they try to nail the #4 pick. I think they’re feeling some pressure, but it’s not “playoffs or bust,” type pressure. They just need to show real progress. There needs to be some clear evidence that they’re moving in the right direction. Also, if Becton starts the whole season at OT and Mims has 500 receiving yards, all of a sudden that 2020 draft isn’t so terrible. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sperm Edwards Posted April 19, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted April 19, 2022 21 hours ago, bitonti said: OK great Lets say the defense gets much better with KT. Best case scenario. The Jets scored 18.2 ppg last year. 28th overall No matter how much better the defense gets, They aren't going to win games scoring 19 points on offense Since you opened this door, how many points per game do you think the Jets will score by swapping out Fant for a rookie left tackle? 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 21 minutes ago, HighPitch said: Yea ok ive heard that a million times. ? just the fact that you and a few others had to respond to me to explain what he is all about is concerning. The response i would rather have is “do you watch fb at all?” Or just ridicule. My point here is i never heard of the dude before and when anyone defends him its always “ oh he never had much success actually sacking, but he gets close” Thats fine but a lot of posters here have that mentality where IF he is healthy, he will be a game changer and i just dont see it. Love to be wrong tho I don't think most people believe he's a superstar but he's a clear upgrade over what we had. He's an NFL caliber pass rusher. If he were a superstar no one would be suggesting we take an edge at #4. If we get him back at 100% the team will be noticeably better. I think that's all most are saying - at least I know that's what I'm saying. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 17 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Since you opened this door, how many points per game do you think the Jets will score by swapping out Fant for a rookie left tackle? I know you know this, but I'll say it out loud for the more challenged readers. Assuming Becton is healthy, adding an OT will do very little this season. Adding a new, highly competent RG and two reliable TEs will do a lot to help. One more talented WR will be the most we can hope for at this point but having the rest more healthy than last year will help also. All together, assuming Zach continues to progress, which is the most important point, I think the offense can be at least NFL-average. There is a lot of room for improvement baked into this offense considering that last year it was made of balsa wood. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen Machine Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 22 hours ago, bitonti said: Fant was an above-average pass protector. He was below average in run blocking. He graded out like the 30th best tackle overall. This system prioritizes run blocking, by the way As for KT, let's walk this dog. The jets draft him. He gets 10 sacks. How many more wins is that? They need edge but it's not going to move the needle when the offense still sucks Even then, you are asking a oft injured rookie to amass 10 sacks… a feat he had yet to accomplish in college. If the Jets do go KT I’d guess the over under his rookie year is around 8.5 sacks. Maybe that moves the needle, I’d venture to guess a stud OL would make it move more…. The needle would move too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asymmetrical Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 The combination of draft fatigue and the emotional battery of being a Jets fan is yielding some funny results. "say they draft a player at the second most important position in football and he's an immediate success. so what?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, GangGreen Machine said: Even then, you are asking a oft injured rookie to amass 10 sacks… a feat he had yet to accomplish in college. If the Jets do go KT I’d guess the over under his rookie year is around 8.5 sacks. Maybe that moves the needle, I’d venture to guess a stud OL would make it move more…. The needle would move too. If they go OL again they better plan on drafting 2 backs as well before round 4-5. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen Machine Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 Just now, Matt39 said: If they go OL again they better plan on drafting 2 backs as well before round 4-5. I’ve been convinced they will let Fant walk next year. Not enough shown in his run game. I’d love Edge and O line, in no particular order, at 4 & 10. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, GangGreen Machine said: Even then, you are asking a oft injured rookie to amass 10 sacks… a feat he had yet to accomplish in college. If the Jets do go KT I’d guess the over under his rookie year is around 8.5 sacks. Maybe that moves the needle, I’d venture to guess a stud OL would make it move more…. The needle would move too. you all kill me with the college sack thin. you realize you would not have drafted JJ Watt, Nick Bosa, Joey Bosa and TJ Watt (probably 1 year production). lol Nick Bosa Joey Bosa JJ Watt TJ Watt KT I think its not really worth too much discussion because I will be surprised if he is even there at 4 2 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen Machine Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Stark said: you all kill me with the college sack thin. you realize you would not have drafted JJ Watt, Nick Bosa, Joey Bosa and TJ Watt (probably 1 year production). lol Nick Bosa Joey Bosa JJ Watt TJ Watt KT I think its not really worth too much discussion because I will be surprised if he is even there at 4 I’m talking about moving the needle KT’s rookie year. you are arguing with yourself. I’m fine with taking him just don’t think he will contribute to wins his first year more than an offensive lineman. Rookie stats: Nick Bosa - 9 sacks Joey Bosa - 10.5 sacks JJ Watt - 5.5 sacks TJ Watt - 7 sacks 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said: The combination of draft fatigue and the emotional battery of being a Jets fan is yielding some funny results. "say they draft a player at the second most important position in football and he's an immediate success. so what?" In 2022 the second most important position is wide out 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 39 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Since you opened this door, how many points per game do you think the Jets will score by swapping out Fant for a rookie left tackle? If the tackle is icky, I don't know maybe 2 or 3 ppg? It's more than zero 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 4 hours ago, GangGreen Machine said: I’m talking about moving the needle KT’s rookie year. you are arguing with yourself. I’m fine with taking him just don’t think he will contribute to wins his first year more than an offensive lineman. Rookie stats: Nick Bosa - 9 sacks Joey Bosa - 10.5 sacks JJ Watt - 5.5 sacks TJ Watt - 7 sacks on that point you might be correct. you want a good pass rusher and a good offensive line for sure. I keep seeing people citing sack numbers from college and they use them as a point to pass on KT. I should have been more clear about "you all" being more in general. hypothetically Becton and Fant stay remotely healthy Icky chills on bench and doesn't add much at all. KT gets 7-9 sacks also Carl gets 6-9 sacks and defensive line is overall more disruptive. I would lean the KT grouping for year 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen Machine Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Stark said: on that point you might be correct. you want a good pass rusher and a good offensive line for sure. I keep seeing people citing sack numbers from college and they use them as a point to pass on KT. I should have been more clear about "you all" being more in general. hypothetically Becton and Want stay remotely healthy Icky chills on bench and doesn't add much at all. KT gets 7-9 sacks also Carl gets 6-9 sacks and defensive line is overall more disruptive. I would lean the KT grouping for year 1 I love the idea of a stud rookie pass rusher opposite Lawson. KT I’m good with if he is there at 4. Alternatively, I would certainly hope Icky could beat either Becton or Fant out in one of the tackle positions if you are drafting him at 4. I’d love to see this line where a solid starter like Fant is in the Morgan Moses role. Definite Oline upgrade if Fant is the spot starter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, Stark said: hypothetically Becton and Want stay remotely healthy Icky chills on bench and doesn't add much at all. KT gets 7-9 sacks also Carl gets 6-9 sacks and defensive line is overall more disruptive. I would lean the KT grouping for year 1 If the Jets draft a tackle at 4 it allows them to cut Fant or make him take a pay cut. Or trade him for a 4th Rder maybe. Fant is the 5th highest cap hit on the roster. They are not going to bench him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen Machine Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, bitonti said: If the Jets draft a tackle at 4 it allows them to cut Fant or make him take a pay cut. Or trade him fortune a 4th Rder maybe. Fant is the 5th highest cap hit on the roster. They are not going to bench him. Hypothetically, do you think Fant gets an extension/tagged after this year if he replicated his performance from 2021? Or do you think it’s more probable JD will want to draft his replacement, this year or next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensleeves Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 On 4/18/2022 at 9:42 AM, Warfish said: I will not believe we are drafting an OT at #4 until five minutes AFTER we've selected that OT, lol. I just don't see it happening. Not saying it may not be a need, or that JD isn't an O-line guy like I usually am, but I don't see him selling off Becton yet. I could be wrong, but I don't think I will be when all is said and done. If that happened I would be shocked. If it DID happen it would be Fant they would be selling off, not Becton IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensleeves Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 13 minutes ago, bitonti said: If the Jets draft a tackle at 4 it allows them to cut Fant or make him take a pay cut. Or trade him for a 4th Rder maybe. Fant is the 5th highest cap hit on the roster. They are not going to bench him. It sets us up long term, but it won't move the needle at all this year if that happens and you would hope a top 4 pick would move the needle on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maury77 Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Matt39 said: backside pursuit on this is tough to watch. Seems to have learned the stand over the pile move from past Jets. Which play are you referencing? It's a 7 minute video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said: Since you opened this door, how many points per game do you think the Jets will score by swapping out Fant for a rookie left tackle? If they're swapping Fant and a rookie, and we're assuming a first round pick (perhaps the 4) then there shouldn't be too much of a drop. Particularly if the rest of the offense is performing better for instance: ZW making fast reads to WRs ready for a hot route to help slow down the rush. Or just running the ball down the other team's throat. Fant was a journeyman swing tackle until recently. Not to take anything away from the job he did, but he's also about to be a FA. The Jets are in the position to avoid that big contract at LT, and have the line stay together longer. If things look good with the rookie you tag Fant, and then you trade him. All this is assuming, big assumption admitedly , that MB is healthy and playing well at RT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensleeves Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 46 minutes ago, GangGreen Machine said: I’m talking about moving the needle KT’s rookie year. you are arguing with yourself. I’m fine with taking him just don’t think he will contribute to wins his first year more than an offensive lineman. Rookie stats: Nick Bosa - 9 sacks Joey Bosa - 10.5 sacks JJ Watt - 5.5 sacks TJ Watt - 7 sacks How will adding to the strongest unit on our team move the needle more than adding to one of the weakest which our defensive system is based on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 24 minutes ago, GangGreen Machine said: Hypothetically, do you think Fant gets an extension/tagged after this year if he replicated his performance from 2021? Or do you think it’s more probable JD will want to draft his replacement, this year or next year. Anything is possible but I don't believe jd ever had plans for extending Fant beyond 22. He was always a high priced place holder type. If JD sticks with his plans, both Fant and McGovern are gone after this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, maury77 said: Which play are you referencing? It's a 7 minute video Overall. Not the piss and vinegar you'd like to see, specifically on backside pursuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asymmetrical Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 52 minutes ago, bitonti said: In 2022 the second most important position is wide out not a crazy opinion but they have 3 NFL caliber players at wideout right now. I absolutely want them to address the position early but they've needed a rush end for 15 years. The whole draft kinda stinks but seems like there's better value at edge at 4. Anyway, my point was if you get a double digit sack rookie at 4 (or 10) that's a win and makes the team appreciably better immediately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen Machine Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 13 minutes ago, Greensleeves said: How will adding to the strongest unit on our team move the needle more than adding to one of the weakest which our defensive system is based on? Glad you asked. I’m no expert but this is the way I see it. Rookie edges don’t contribute as much as Offensive lineman their rookie years IMO. don’t ask me for stats to back that up, I don’t have any, just eyeball test. Lawson is coming back. Our offensive system relies on strong run game, Fant is weak in that dept. Saleh was hired as a defensive guru who can coach up guys and shouldn’t need a plethora of premium picks and FA’s to succeed. Because ZW can use all the help he can get to start putting up W’s for this team (move the needle). It’s ZW or bust for this regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen Machine Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 13 minutes ago, bitonti said: Anything is possible but I don't believe jd ever had plans for extending Fant beyond 22. He was always a high priced place holder type. If JD sticks with his plans, both Fant and McGovern are gone after this year. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpain Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 14 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said: Don't you think JD is starting to feel the pressure? He's in his third draft. He's 1 for 2 (and the one he missed on, 2020, is really, really bad). Don't you think he has to nail this one? I'm on the side of give JD and Saleh 3-4 years at least. But I don't think they have that long. They've got to hit a home run. I think they try to nail the #4 pick. I can see your thought process on that, but i am not 100% convinced that taking the #4 pick changes this team more moving forward than taking their second 1st round pick in the 11-19 range plus adding additional pick(s) in the second round this year and another extra 1st next year. This team isnt one pick away, they have holes almost everywhere. I just believe the extra picks could potentially help them more this year and moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 13 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said: not a crazy opinion but they have 3 NFL caliber players at wideout right now. I absolutely want them to address the position early but they've needed a rush end for 15 years. The whole draft kinda stinks but seems like there's better value at edge at 4. Anyway, my point was if you get a double digit sack rookie at 4 (or 10) that's a win and makes the team appreciably better immediately. They certainly need an edge. If they had worked out a trade for a vet wide out, I'd be right there with you predicting KT or whoever the best edge is at 4 Because they only have 3 nfl caliber wr (what is berrios really, a wr4?) and because both Moore and Davis get hurt, the Jets are backed into the wide out. It might not be the pick at 4 but they need one bad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waka Flocka Flacco Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 1 hour ago, nycdan said: I know you know this, but I'll say it out loud for the more challenged readers. Assuming Becton is healthy, adding an OT will do very little this season. Becton being healthy is your silly hope. Nobody else is required to accept it as an assumption. This seems more like challenged writing than challenged reading. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 25 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said: Becton being healthy is your silly hope. Nobody else is required to accept it as an assumption. This seems more like challenged writing than challenged reading. Pushing the boundaries of civility there. Since nobody posting here knows if he's healthy or not, we're going to have to rely on the actual people responsible for knowing to determine their plan. If they don't draft an OT in round 1, it's probably because they expect Becton to play. If they do draft one, then the opposite is likely true. Your posturing makes zero difference in how it turns out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waka Flocka Flacco Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 Just now, nycdan said: Pushing the boundaries of civility there. Little confused. I said what you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIJetsFan Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 2 hours ago, GangGreen Machine said: I love the idea of a stud rookie pass rusher opposite Lawson. KT I’m good with if he is there at 4. Alternatively, I would certainly hope Icky could beat either Becton or Fant out in one of the tackle positions if you are drafting him at 4. I’d love to see this line where a solid starter like Fant is in the Morgan Moses role. Definite Oline upgrade if Fant is the spot starter. Good post. I hope this is JD's thinking as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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