Different take on the NFL draft

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

 

[nycdan]

I listened for a minute.  He was bemoaning the fact that people use "Jamarcus Russell" as a way to highlight how black QBs might turn out fat, lazy, or stupid.  Then he challenges the listeners to name any time someone used that reference to question a white QB prospect.  Obviously, he has never heard of Ryan Leaf.  Ryan Leaf is every bit the poster child for QB busts and butt of bad draft pick jokes that Jamarcus Russell is. 

Maybe it got better later on, but once you start building a narrative to play the race card, and it ignores inconvenient arguments that would otherwise dismantle it, you lose me.

If there's something better in this, someone please feel free to highlight it.  There is plenty to legitimately discuss about race takes in the NFL but this ain't it.  

[Stark]

8 minutes ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

 

[slimjasi]

Just now, nycdan said:

I listened for a minute.  He was bemoaning the fact that people use "Jamarcus Russell" as a way to highlight how black QBs might turn out fat, lazy, or stupid.  Then he challenges the listeners to name any time someone used that reference to question a white QB prospect.  Obviously, he has never heard of Ryan Leaf.  Ryan Leaf is every bit the poster child for QB busts and butt of bad draft pick jokes that Jamarcus Russell is. 

Maybe it got better later on, but once you start building a narrative to play the race card, and it ignores inconvenient arguments that would otherwise dismantle it, you lose me.

If there's something better in this, someone please feel free to highlight it.  What I heard was just an awful take.

What's funny is, I would argue that Ryan Leaf is easily a bigger poster child for QB busts than Russell ever was. Mainly because Leaf was the "other guy" to Peyton Manning and there were some prominent people who thought he'd actually be a better pro. 

[oatmeal]

We literally witnessed one of the most stupidest QBs to ever grace a nfl field in Sam Darnold and I don’t remember anyone in the media ever questioning his football IQ.

 

Hell, thinking about it now i can’t remember a recent white QB prospect who’s “ability to process information” was questioned, maybe someone can help me remember? ?

[oatmeal]

8 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

What's funny is, I would argue that Ryan Leaf is easily a bigger poster child for QB busts than Russell ever was. Mainly because Leaf was the "other guy" to Peyton Manning and there were some prominent people who thought he'd actually be a better pro. 

To say leaf is viewed as a bigger poster child for QB bust is a super stretch. I honestly couldn’t put one over the other if I’m truly being honest 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

To say leaf is viewed as a bigger poster child for QB bust is a super stretch. I honestly couldn’t put one over the other if I’m truly being honest 

Hmm. We can agree to disagree. It would be Leaf in a landslide for me. 

There were a lot of people (although a minority) saying he'd be better than Manning that year. 

[nycdan]

7 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

We literally witnessed one of the most stupidest QBs to ever grace a nfl field in Sam Darnold and I don’t remember anyone in the media ever questioning his football IQ.

 

Hell, thinking about it now i can’t remember a recent white QB prospect who’s “ability to process information” was questioned, maybe someone can help me remember? ?

[section314]

6 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

We literally witnessed one of the most stupidest QBs to ever grace a nfl field in Sam Darnold and I don’t remember anyone in the media ever questioning his football IQ.

 

Hell, thinking about it now i can’t remember a recent white QB prospect who’s “ability to process information” was questioned, maybe someone can help me remember? ?

You remember Buby Brister and Browning Nagle right? We had to give Sanchez color cards.?

[JohnnyLV]

10 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

We literally witnessed one of the most stupidest QBs to ever grace a nfl field in Sam Darnold and I don’t remember anyone in the media ever questioning his football IQ.

 

Hell, thinking about it now i can’t remember a recent white QB prospect who’s “ability to process information” was questioned, maybe someone can help me remember? ?

What are you on about? Without even thinking about it I can list Manziel, Mayfield, Rosen, Bortles, Kiper's love child Clausen all had this said about them. And there are many many others.  People want to find racism where it does not exist, and then ignore it where it does

[oatmeal]

4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Johnny Football 2014 - think about that. You had to go all the way back to 2014 to find a guy.  For a black QB just go back one year to find Justin Fields go back a couple more then you have Lamar Jackson. 
 

How about Watson, Mahomes, Haskins, this year Wills 

This is no coincidence 

[Warfish]

23 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I listened for a minute.  He was bemoaning the fact that people use "Jamarcus Russell" as a way to highlight how black QBs might turn out fat, lazy, or stupid.  Then he challenges the listeners to name any time someone used that reference to question a white QB prospect.  Obviously, he has never heard of Ryan Leaf.  Ryan Leaf is every bit the poster child for QB busts and butt of bad draft pick jokes that Jamarcus Russell is.

There are dozens of white 1st round bust QB's people use as reference-points for "could-be-a-bust" comparisons. 

I use the Tim Couch one myself all the time.

It's a ridiculous argument by this guy.

 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Johnny Football 2014 - think about that. You had to go all the way back to 2014 to find a guy.  For a black QB just go back one year to find Justin Fields go back a couple more then you have Lamar Jackson. 
 

How about Watson, Mahomes, Haskins, this year Wills 

This is no coincidence 

You said you couldn't think of one.  I named one.  So now you are moving the bar.  Not playing this game.  Have fun.

[oatmeal]

2 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

What are you on about? Without even thinking about it I can list Manziel, Mayfield, Rosen, Bortles, Kiper's love child Clausen all had this said about them. And there are many many others.  People want to find racism where it does not exist, and then ignore it where it does

The only QB on that list that had legitimate national media criticism of their football IQ was Manziel. With the other QBs you named, can you link scouting reports, videos , something  showing the top dogs in the media criticizing their football IQ?
 

I’m not saying you are lying I just need to see the proof 

[The Crusher]

26 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

We literally witnessed one of the most stupidest QBs to ever grace a nfl field in Sam Darnold and I don’t remember anyone in the media ever questioning his football IQ.

 

Hell, thinking about it now i can’t remember a recent white QB prospect who’s “ability to process information” was questioned, maybe someone can help me remember? ?

Zach Wilson. 

[oatmeal]

5 minutes ago, nycdan said:

You said you couldn't think of one.  I named one.  So now you are moving the bar.  Not playing this game.  Have fun.

My words were m: “Hell, thinking about it now i can’t remember a recent white QB prospect who’s “ability to process information” was questioned, maybe someone can help me remember? “

2014 is recent and when in comparison I have you a list of black QBs from the past 5 years and one is even from this draft. More white QBs we’re drafted in this same time span abd you had to go all the way back to 2014 to find a legitimate example.

 

This is very telling to me but to you it’s me playing a game. Okay I guess 

[oatmeal]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Zach Wilson. 

That’s a new one, I consumed a lot of zach content this past year i I don’t remember anyone in the media questioning zachs football IQ.
 

I could be 100% wrong though, do you have links?

[nycdan]

7 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

The only QB on that list that had legitimate national media criticism of their football IQ was Manziel. With the other QBs you named, can you link scouting reports, videos , something  showing the top dogs in the media criticizing their football IQ?
 

I’m not saying you are lying I just need to see the proof 

OMG.  One more if it will stop this.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-why-pff-doesnt-have-a-draftable-grade-on-christian-hackenberg

Quote

Decision-making

All quarterbacks can be caught out, or baited, or somehow convinced to attempt a pass they shouldn’t, but at least an evaluator can usually work out where the play broke down and what tempted him into taking the shot. Hackenberg regularly has plays where the pass has little to no chance of succeeding, but he puts the ball in the air anyway.

That is a fatal flaw for an NFL quarterback, as QBs need to be able to read what happens before and after the snap to put the ball in the right place. Sometimes Hackenberg can do exactly that, but far too often he appears to simply decide not to, and those plays lead to simple turnovers.

PFF’s play-by-play grading scale works from minus-2 to plus-2 in 0.5 increments. Minus-1.5 and minus-2 throws are catastrophic plays that usually result in a turnover. Hackenberg has 37 of them over his college career, equivalent to a catastrophically bad pass on 3.1 percent of his attempts. Jared Goff, by contrast, threw one on 1.1 percent in 2015. Even Michigan State QB Connor Cook, whom we have noted throughout his draft evaluation for his bad habit of reckless throws, threw one on 1.5 percent — or less than half the rate of Hackenberg.

Hackenberg regularly does not see defenders breaking on the ball or cutting underneath his intended receiver. Against Temple in the first game of this season, he missed a defensive end dropping straight under a quick slant and almost tossed him a pick-six. Last year against Indiana he tossed the ball straight to a defender who was cutting in front of his bubble screen and did throw a pick-six:

Turning the ball over at the NFL level is the cardinal sin of quarterback play. Most top passers now have historically low interception and turnover rates. Hackenberg puts the ball in that kind of danger far too often, at a far lower level of competition.

Nobody questions Hack's physical ability.  His brain was his downfall and PFF (along with many others) called him out on this before the draft.

Please stop trying to beat this dead horse.  There are plenty of crappy QBs of all races to go around.  Yes, it's obvious that people tend to comp players to other players of the same race.  Unfortunate, yet a real thing.  But it's not only black QBs that get labeled as not having the processing speed or decision making to succeed.

[nycdan]

35 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

We literally witnessed one of the most stupidest QBs to ever grace a nfl field in Sam Darnold and I don’t remember anyone in the media ever questioning his football IQ.

 

Hell, thinking about it now i can’t remember a recent white QB prospect who’s “ability to process information” was questioned, maybe someone can help me remember? ?

Oh...and do just a little research before you make blanket statements.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/sam-darnold/32004441-5246-6141-9e5c-6e7d32a03e33

Quote

Decision-making and field vision were inconsistent this year

Has a tendency to rush throws once internal clock winds down

It's really not hard to debunk the stuff you're trying to sell.

[jetstream23]

 

The football gods are colorblind when it comes to QBs busting.... For every Jamarcus Russell there's a Tim Couch and Ryan Leaf.  For every Akili Smith there's a Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, etc.  Fans remember them all, especially if they played for your team.

But the reverse can happen as well.  Lamar Jackson went later than he should have and might be helping pave the way for a guy like Malik Willis this year.  Justin Fields may have gone later than he should have as well, only time will tell.  If we start to see a pattern of black QBs routinely performing better than their Draft positions then perhaps that opens some eyes amongst teams and scouting departments that their evaluation processes aren't working well.... or that there may be some biases involved that even they don't realize they have embedded in their processes.

I wouldn't be surprised if a look at the historical data showed that the success/bust ratio was remarkably similar for QBs of all races.  It just seems like such an inexact science evaluating these guys.

 

[oatmeal]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

OMG.  One more if it will stop this.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-why-pff-doesnt-have-a-draftable-grade-on-christian-hackenberg

Nobody questions Hack's physical ability.  His brain was his downfall and PFF (along with many others) called him out on this before the draft.

Please stop trying to beat this dead horse.  There are plenty of crappy QBs of all races to go around.  Yes, it's obvious that people tend to comp players to other players of the same race.  Unfortunate, yet a real thing.  But it's not only black QBs that get labeled as not having the processing speed or decision making to succeed.

The fact that you need to keep digging so deep down the years to find any legitimate criticism of a white QBs IQ and I can right now go back just 5 years and literally pick a black QBs name out of the hat and I will find multiple mainstream media outlets questioning his football IQ.

 

I can show you clips from nationally broadcasted shows, criticizing a black QBs football IQ. Can you or anyone else find just one video of a white QB college prospect football IQ being questioned? 
 
 

And again what makes this entire situation fishy and foul is the fact that there are more white QBs every year, in every draft.

 

 

[oatmeal]

8 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Oh...and do just a little research before you make blanket statements.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/sam-darnold/32004441-5246-6141-9e5c-6e7d32a03e33

It's really not hard to debunk the stuff you're trying to sell.

the black QBs get: “questions on his ability to process information on the next level”  

not something tame like: “Decision-making and field vision were inconsistent this year”

Has a tendency to rush throws once internal clock winds down

 

If your child played ball which one would you like said about them? 

[DonCorleone]

59 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I listened for a minute.  He was bemoaning the fact that people use "Jamarcus Russell" as a way to highlight how black QBs might turn out fat, lazy, or stupid.  Then he challenges the listeners to name any time someone used that reference to question a white QB prospect.  Obviously, he has never heard of Ryan Leaf.  Ryan Leaf is every bit the poster child for QB busts and butt of bad draft pick jokes that Jamarcus Russell is. 

Maybe it got better later on, but once you start building a narrative to play the race card, and it ignores inconvenient arguments that would otherwise dismantle it, you lose me.

If there's something better in this, someone please feel free to highlight it.  There is plenty to legitimately discuss about race takes in the NFL but this ain't it.  

Cornerback for example.

[JTJet]

21 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

The only QB on that list that had legitimate national media criticism of their football IQ was Manziel. With the other QBs you named, can you link scouting reports, videos , something  showing the top dogs in the media criticizing their football IQ?
 

I’m not saying you are lying I just need to see the proof 

You're just actively choosing to ignore "proof" or anything that doesn't fit your preconceptions. 

A fairly simple google search will pull up dozens and dozens of examples to disprove your angle, you dont need someone else to do it for you.

Every QB we have had since Pennington has been bashed for his intelligence by talking heads, including Zach. Just depends on who you're listening to. 

...and that's just the Jets. 

Rosen is universally bashed for his ineptitude. Mayfield gets trashed. Darnold gets trashed. Hackenberg. Daniel Jones. 

Paxton Lynch anybody? Christ, that dude was STILL getting bashed as recently as this weekend. 

[Dunnie]

We literally witnessed one of the most stupidest QBs to ever grace a nfl field in Sam Darnold and I don’t remember anyone in the media ever questioning his football IQ.
 
Hell, thinking about it now i can’t remember a recent white QB prospect who’s “ability to process information” was questioned, maybe someone can help me remember?

"Most stupidest" .... just sayin'....

Just playin'... Sam was not that sharp ... and many questioned his football IQ.

[Spoot-Face]

[oatmeal]

7 minutes ago, JTJet said:

You're just actively choosing to ignore "proof" or anything that doesn't fit your preconceptions. 

A fairly simple google search will pull up dozens and dozens of examples to disprove your angle, you dont need someone else to do it for you.

Every QB we have had since Pennington has been bashed for his intelligence by talking heads, including Zach. Just depends on who you're listening to. 

...and that's just the Jets. 

Rosen is universally bashed for his ineptitude. Mayfield gets trashed. Darnold gets trashed. Hackenberg. Daniel Jones. 

Paxton Lynch anybody? Christ, that dude was STILL getting bashed as recently as this weekend. 

Can you link me a video of someone on national TV saying about a white college QB: “concerns of his ability to process information on the next level” ?????

 

[FidelioJet]

35 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

That’s a new one, I consumed a lot of zach content this past year i I don’t remember anyone in the media questioning zachs football IQ.
 

I could be 100% wrong though, do you have links?

In fairness, no one questioned Fields intelligence.  

Everything I read about Fields was that he was a very smart kid - not being a good processor wasn't a knock on him - although it was somewhat of an unknown much like Wilsons.

[oatmeal]

11 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

"Most stupidest" .... just sayin'....

Just playin'... Sam was not that sharp ... and many questioned his football IQ.

I’m not the brightest bulb in the box but I try ?

[Jet9]

Saw Bomani and guessed it was about race. I should go buy a lotto ticket I guess.

 

Honest question for anyone over 30-35; how/why in the **** do you guys still watch Bomani, Skip, Shannon, Rome, Cowherd, Stephen A or anyone at the 4-letter network at all? It is absolute trash tv with horrific sports opinions. Obviously you guys can watch whatever you want, I'm simply asking why? 

[Jet9]

1 hour ago, oatmeal said:

To say leaf is viewed as a bigger poster child for QB bust is a super stretch. I honestly couldn’t put one over the other if I’m truly being honest 

Then you're 14 years old. 

[oatmeal]

2 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

Saw Bomani and guessed it was about race. I should go buy a lotto ticket I guess.

 

Honest question for anyone over 30-35; how/why in the **** do you guys still watch Bomani, Skip, Shannon, Rome, Cowherd, Stephen A or anyone at the 4-letter network at all? It is absolute trash tv with horrific sports opinions. Obviously you guys can watch whatever you want, I'm simply asking why? 

This 

I must admit I’m guilty of still viewing the sideshow

2 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

Then you're 14 years old. 

im 33 brother ?

[nycdan]

36 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

the black QBs get: “questions on his ability to process information on the next level”  

not something tame like: “Decision-making and field vision were inconsistent this year”

Has a tendency to rush throws once internal clock winds down

 

If your child played ball which one would you like said about them? 

It doesn't say anything worse here:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/patrick-mahomes/32004d41-4840-1939-e4c1-bb89191b4e71

or here:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/deshaun-watson/32005741-5433-8355-e029-e49022cf4b81

or here:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/malik-willis/32005749-4c61-4428-8345-922a57c28423

All three of whom are guys you are claiming were called 'stupid' in some form or other.  I think you are having a Mandela effect where you memory is shifting to support the conclusion you want.  Almost every post in this thread is telling you that you are mistaken, but you keep doubling down but still haven't posted a single thing in support of your position, while ignoring everything posted to the contrary.

At any point are you going to consider that maybe you went out on too thin a branch?

 

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Bomani jones is the worst. Watched an episode of his new show on hbo last night and it was about how the nfl should do away with the draft because it’s basically a slave auction

He only knows how to play the race card. probably explains why his new show is a complete disaster in the ratings department.

https://www.outkick.com/first-season-of-bomani-jones-hbo-show-is-an-all-time-disaster/
 

apparently he loses 80% of his lead in viewership and 2 am paid programming on cbs draws more viewers than his show. Lmao ? 

 

[slimjasi]

Just now, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Bomani jones is the worst. Watched an episode of his new show on hbo last night and it was about how the nfl should do away with the draft because it’s basically a slave auction

He only knows how to play the race card. probably explains why his new show is a complete disaster in the ratings department.

https://www.outkick.com/first-season-of-bomani-jones-hbo-show-is-an-all-time-disaster/
 

apparently he loses 80% of his lead in viewership and 2 am paid programming on cbs draws more viewers than his show. Lmao ? 

 

A slave auction where the "slaves" are instant millionaires. Funny stuff.