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Odds of Icky at 4 just increased dramatically


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15 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

I think you've already made up your mind about Becton and thus, everything you read about him is just confirmation of what you already believe.

I've never said there isn't substance behind the concerns. Hell, my long post outlined where there is some substance, and I share some concerns.

But, we've already established that you're pushing a narrative that Becton came to camp in 2021 out of shape, which I can't find any reports of being true. If you find them, I'll happily change my tune.

Until then, I'll just say "the sky is blue, and T0mshane sucks".

❤️ You

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I would disagree only in the “day one” part. I think these Jets are still ok with developmental prospects, but they want developmental prospects who are “all about ball,” i.e. Zach Wilson.

I think they’re okay with developmental guys, but not ones whose draft capital dictates a day one role but whose growing pains will adversely impact Wilson. Big difference between Walker and Penning/Ekwonu in that regard.

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On 4/21/2022 at 4:11 PM, ZachEY said:

Pregnancy excuse probably sounds more legit than it is.  He's got access to Woody's private plane the second there's a contraction.  I think Becton being a good partner and dad isn't the explainer that some are hoping it be.

Thrilled that you think that... Obviously, what a new father to be in this circumstance (especially given we know nothing of the circumstances of the pregnancy), what has been discussed between the coaching staff and the player, and what their plan is for the next month is completely irrelevant to what you think should happen.

You should set up some time with Becton and the CS next week to explain all this to them, help them see the error of their ways. Then maybe that (checks notes) fat, lazy, professional athlete will show up for week two of the unrequired team activities, where, as per the CBA, they are basically not allowed to do anything other than chat and work out (which he's already doing).

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On 4/21/2022 at 5:07 PM, RoadFan said:

We’ll learn about JD from this.  Can he admit an error quickly, and not compound a mistake?

Becton cannot be relied upon.  #1 priority over all, including edge, is to protect ZW.

Drafting Icky works for me…

 

That pick being an error is your opinion. 

Becton will most likely play the season.

1 - If he's significantly injured, then move on, pick someone next year
2 - If he does not play well, then move on, pick someone next year
3 - If he's healthy and plays well, then don't waste draft capital that's required to fill in a dozen other spots on the team.

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5 minutes ago, xJayce said:

That pick being an error is your opinion. 

Becton will most likely play the season.

1 - If he's significantly injured, then move on, pick someone next year
2 - If he does not play well, then move on, pick someone next year
3 - If he's healthy and plays well, then don't waste draft capital that's required to fill in a dozen other spots on the team.

That is NOT my opinion.

Every beat writer with a connection to the Jets said the organization was very unhappy with him. Enough reports to recognize it is true.  

I hope he Becton turns out like Vernon Davis after severely underachieving early in his career. Not many turn it around like that though.

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21 hours ago, Jets Things said:

Chicago, LA, Milwaukie, etc. So yes. 

And that is unfortunate. People shouldn't have to go through this. It's regrettable that your employer was not able to show you the respect and sensitivity the situation deserved. In my own experiences, I've been able to discuss with employers and inform them that I would not be travelling during periods where my significant other was close to her due date, and we found solutions that worked for both of us.

That being said, your situation is completely irrelevant. He has the opportunity to determine the right path for him and his family, and this was the decision that was made. The Voluntary OTAs for phase 1 are restricted to chats and gym time, all of which Becton can do from home. And he can most likely do more from home than what the CBA allows in Phase 1 as the facilities.

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7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

100%. I don’t think we give enough consideration to the idea that Saleh deserves a chance to stock the roster with his guys, and the fact is that he inherited a roster with a large contingent of Gase’s guys. If he thinks Becton is a drag on his program, they should get rid of Becton. 

This... This right here!

If Becton's play is not at the level the team wants, if he's missing mandatory activities, if the coaching staff doesn't believe in him, great, they can move on.


But all the speculation around missing a voluntary activity which amounts to sitting around twiddling your thumbs is mind boggling.

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7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Well, one benefit would be that he supposedly had this dire injury that kept him out of football for the past nine months and I’d imagine that the team handing him millions of dollars would want the chance to see him walk through the door at a weight that is less than 400 lbs. Secondly, you’d want to see him express an ounce of commitment to—if not his employers—then his teammates who went out and battled last year during a lost season while Becton was twitch-streaming runs on GTA5 all night. 

And the team will get to do that when actual OTA / Camp begins.

Nothing preventing Saleh / JD from getting on Facetime with Becton and his trainer saying: "Show me what you got" right now. Hell, they can even take the private Jet down to TX for a quick check-in. Or send one of the interns!

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4 hours ago, Dwight Englewood said:

Saleh is horrible.  I cannot understand how we've managed to get a coach who is even worse than Bowles and Gase.

Wow, did I miss the Segway to this comment or did that just come out of left field?

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25 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

That is NOT my opinion.

Every beat writer with a connection to the Jets said the organization was very unhappy with him. Enough reports to recognize it is true.  

I hope he Becton turns out like Vernon Davis after severely underachieving early in his career. Not many turn it around like that though.

Yes... I've not heard anyone say that Becton was a MISTAKE. I've heard a lot of 'he's raw and has potential'. I've heard a lot of 'he had a good rookie season', and a lot of 'he needs to control his weight'. I've never heard anyone say he was a mistake (which is what you started with). I've also not heard anyone say that Becton had underperformed in year 1.

Maybe the org is not happy with his weight, that's fine. Maybe they feel he didn't put in enough effort? Possibly. But I'm not taking the beat's word for it. When he gets benched, or traded, that will be the indicator to me that they decided that their are irreconcilable differences.
 

I'll wait to actually see him on the field in an actual game to judge...

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13 minutes ago, xJayce said:

Yes... I've not heard anyone say that Becton was a MISTAKE. I've heard a lot of 'he's raw and has potential'. I've heard a lot of 'he had a good rookie season', and a lot of 'he needs to control his weight'. I've never heard anyone say he was a mistake (which is what you started with). I've also not heard anyone say that Becton had underperformed in year 1.

Maybe the org is not happy with his weight, that's fine. Maybe they feel he didn't put in enough effort? Possibly. But I'm not taking the beat's word for it. When he gets benched, or traded, that will be the indicator to me that they decided that their are irreconcilable differences.
 

I'll wait to actually see him on the field in an actual game to judge...

Hold your breath.

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2 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

Yeah, lol, and I'm not even as down on Becton as many seem to be.

As far as the training camp reports of him being beaten by Lawson? I'll just say I'd be more concerned if he didn't already demonstrate he can play at a high level his rookie year. For now, I'll chalk up those TC reports as him just being behind in learning the scheme from missing OTA's (which is why I think it's imperative that he shows this year). He didn't seem to have those same problems in preseason or Week 1, albeit those were super limited snaps.

If he's still struggling this TC and preseason, then maybe it's a sign he's just not a fit for the scheme that Lafleur wants to run here, in which case, if he's healthy, teams that run a more man blocking scheme will see that and we'll be able to recoup some decent capital in a trade.

My BornJetsFan1983 (not tagging, because, obviously) "one day" is that "one day the Jets will have a player (or, dare to dream, players) who doesn't require an extended conversation in response to the question, 'is he good?'"

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1 hour ago, xJayce said:

Thrilled that you think that... Obviously, what a new father to be in this circumstance (especially given we know nothing of the circumstances of the pregnancy), what has been discussed between the coaching staff and the player, and what their plan is for the next month is completely irrelevant to what you think should happen.

You should set up some time with Becton and the CS next week to explain all this to them, help them see the error of their ways. Then maybe that (checks notes) fat, lazy, professional athlete will show up for week two of the unrequired team activities, where, as per the CBA, they are basically not allowed to do anything other than chat and work out (which he's already doing).

v

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

It takes a lot of words to explain why the thing you are seeing isn’t real, and very few to say, for instance, “the sky is blue.”

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22 hours ago, sourceworx said:

Were you traveling out of state for work at week 38-39 of your wife's pregnancy? 

Does being on opposite ends of the cross bronx count?  Because, I'd take Woody's private Jet halfway across the country over my car on the CBX every day.

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53 minutes ago, Dcat said:

 

Yeah - that JD quote sounds so much more line with what I would have expected. 

I just don't think the Hughes comments came from no where, they were super aggressive for the circumstance. 

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7 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

Morgan Moses was found on the streets in July.

Personally, I wanted Moses back, but either 1) he preferred to go to Baltimore to start or 2) JD is higher on Becton than we are.

Ftr, I, too, would like an OT in this draft. Just not in the 1st 2 rounds, unless they're trading Becton. Even then, ehhhh.

He was found on the streets but he was making pretty good money in Washington and they decided to move on from that. he was not a "street player" he was a very good player who did not fit in the new coaches plans of paying a RT too much money

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58 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

My BornJetsFan1983 (not tagging, because, obviously) "one day" is that "one day the Jets will have a player (or, dare to dream, players) who doesn't require an extended conversation in response to the question, 'is he good?'"

In our lifetime?

Yeah, right.

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2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

He was found on the streets but he was making pretty good money in Washington and they decided to move on from that. he was not a "street player" he was a very good player who did not fit in the new coaches plans of paying a RT too much money

And maybe that's why JD let him walk?

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Just now, Spoot-Face said:

And maybe that's why JD let him walk?

Very possible but still worrisome, If Becton sh*ts the bed what position are we in if we don't get another viable Tackle in here ? Personally I think Becton is hot garbage, I have since the day we drafted him but I held on to the hope he might develop. His weight always concerned me and it still does, this kid can't carry that weight so if he comes into camp at 360 + it's going to be an issue I'm sure of it. It takes work to get down to 330 or 340 from 360 and no one can argue the fact it would make him much quicker and take a lot of pressure off his feet ankles and knees. That being said lets see what weight he marches into camp at and that will tell the story.

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1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Very possible but still worrisome, If Becton sh*ts the bed what position are we in if we don't get another viable Tackle in here ? Personally I think Becton is hot garbage, I have since the day we drafted him but I held on to the hope he might develop. His weight always concerned me and it still does, this kid can't carry that weight so if he comes into camp at 360 + it's going to be an issue I'm sure of it. It takes work to get down to 330 or 340 from 360 and no one can argue the fact it would make him much quicker and take a lot of pressure off his feet ankles and knees. That being said lets see what weight he marches into camp at and that will tell the story.

I don't think it's too late to get a viable tackle in here, and I don't think they need, or should, address it in the first two rounds. Personally, I'd like it if they drafted one in the 3rd/4th and signed a vet, even if the plan is to start Becton.

We'll see what they (and Becton) do come draft and training camp.

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1 hour ago, Scoop24 said:


Damn even his teammates tired of yall..

Good for Hardee. My concern is that it's pretty transparent (IMHO) that Hughes is speaking for Joe. If that's a view shared by the locker room you can have Hughes developing a rep as a puppet (which he may or may not care about given the access he is enjoying), but more worrisome the Jets developing a rep as being too faced with players, or worse, unsupportive of players families, etc. 

I totally understand the POV of several here that Becton should have come up to NJ for the voluntary session for symbolic reasons no matter what - but even then if Douglas had issues with Mekhi staying in Texas he would have been better served handling them in house.

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21 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I'd only consider a OL at 4 if they're dead set on trading Becton. Otherwise, it just gets messy with who plays where and when.

But if they did, I think it would be Neal or Cross not Ekwonu, who both would be a better fit at RT. Then they take WR at 10. Edge with the 3rd pick. 

I’m not best one to rate the college prospects individually - I might be the worst - but if they’re dumping Becton I’d be pretty shocked to see the team draft his physical clone. 

At RT he’s not typically going to be manning up on a LE pushing him backwards because that’s not the Jets’ OL blocking anymore. It’s more important they move as a unit, and they. may prefer one who’s nimble on his feet. Further, wherever he projects as a rookie (since the Jets will already have a LT no matter which current one they keep), eventually you’d want a #4 pick to project to LT. It’d take an unusual circumstance to draft a RT that early and have it be a smart move in hindsight (e.g. Philadelphia drafting one, but the circumstances were decidedly unique: the draft was ultra-weak up top except for those projecting to LT - the 2nd one taken being a bust as we now know - and they had an ageless wonder all pro LT locked in on an under-value contract because of his age; and even then the idea was he’d take over for Peters when he started slowing down, except Peters never did so they left Johnson at RT). These circumstances don’t remotely exist now, and from what little I’m gathering Ekwonu isn’t the prospect that Lane Johnson was either, as Johnson was expected to be elite in both pass and run blocking, not to be a work in progress at the more important former job. 

A LT’s job is never more important in run blocking than pass blocking, even if the team wants to run the ball a lot more. They still need to pass the ball a bare minimum of 500x, and still need to throw it on long yardage without it being a foregone conclusion that we’ll be punting 98% of the time. 

There’d only be 2 circumstances where he’d make any sense whatsoever:

  • they’d just had it already with Becton: they think he’s not right in the head, isn’t mature enough to take his job as seriously as he needs to, and think if this changes at all it’ll take years before he wakes up & fully appreciates the opportunity he has, that not 20 people walking the earth have. 
  • they’ve started extension talks with Fant and he is demanding $20MM/year. I tend to think this is less likely, or we’d already hear him or his agent leaking he’ll hold out, and if he’s cut after the draft his agent surely knows he’s not getting that from anyone else either. Even this would be a shaky reason, since the team can tag him next year at ~$18MM with no multi-year risk if all else failed.

I can appreciate they might want a better run blocker at LT but the #1 job is to protect the QB (particularly without requiring him to commit a dozen penalties), and he did that quite adequately even with Wilson holding the ball as long as he did early-on. 

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21 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Who’s the free agent tackle the Jets can sign today who also doesn’t pose this risk? If resource allocation is the primary driver in this decision, their best move is to keep Becton and make Saleh figure it out. That said, I don’t think they’d draft RT at 4, but I think, in the scenario where Douglas waves the white flag on Becton in deference to Saleh, Douglas is going to want to save face by replacing with a player that can be as good or better than Becton should have been, and if he has a hard on for Ekonwu, he can justify the cost in his own mind by saying he replaced Becton with a better Becton plus any draft haul he actually gets for Becto

I’ve listed at least a few of them multiple times, and they’d be backups unless there was a major failure to Becton or Fant. My fave of the bunch is Jason Peters, who’d cost even less than Moses did last year (never mind this year). Reiff is another who can play both tackle spots.

Here a full, isolated list: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/tackle/available/

None of these guys will be bank-breakers. At best one of them (maybe Duane Brown) might land a job at $10MM from a team that strikes out landing a LT in the draft. But that’s far from guaranteed.

Here’s the thing: what if Ekwonu isn’t all that? The most important part of the post you’re responding to - which you’ve glossed over - is that almost no one advocating for him at #4 is even entertaining the possibility that this kid might give up ~10 sacks as a rookie, might be the weakest link on the line at a prior area of strength, etc.. The Jets’ ozb takes time to pick up, even for a veteran, particularly for a tackle, and he’s apparently not an elite pass blocking prospect as it is. There’ll be downs where he’s asked to man-up on a RE and maul him into the secondary, but it’s not going to be the norm and anyway I’ve doubts he could do that as impressively as Becton anyway.

In order for him to be a smart pick in hindsight, he’d have to be outstanding at both, and since the #1 goal is getting Wilson (not the new LT) up to speed, he needs to be all that pretty much instantly.

Post above this I outlined the 2 acceptable reasons to draft a tackle in the top 10. Neither of them includes “to get a little better at one of the tackle positions” when the delta between a new rookie & the team’s incumbent is so much greater at multiple other positions. 

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45 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

Good for Hardee. My concern is that it's pretty transparent (IMHO) that Hughes is speaking for Joe. If that's a view shared by the locker room you can have Hughes developing a rep as a puppet (which he may or may not care about given the access he is enjoying), but more worrisome the Jets developing a rep as being too faced with players, or worse, unsupportive of players families, etc. 

I totally understand the POV of several here that Becton should have come up to NJ for the voluntary session for symbolic reasons no matter what - but even then if Douglas had issues with Mekhi staying in Texas he would have been better served handling them in house.

I thing this might be right.  

I was thinking the same thing when Hughes came out the other day on Twitter and said Jameson Williams will be out until December.  Contrary to all other reports.   With many saying he'll be back for camp.

I immediately started thinking the Jets aren't taking Williams - and wanted to stifle the fan enthusiasm for him - So went to Hughes to put that out there.

No idea if it's true, but it was something I thought at the time I read it.

 

Even with that said, I agree.  The  Jets seem very frustrated with Becton and they're not really hiding publicly.  Not sure that's a great look around the league.

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22 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

I’m not as high on our tackles as you are. We lost Moses. Becton is a question mark right now, and Fant had one good year and also needs an extension. It’s a pretty good OL with the potential to get worse next year. 

RB, LB, TE, S, DT aren’t going to get addressed in the first round.

I rather draft the best OT than the 2nd or 3rd best DE and even the best CB. 

People seriously overrate Moses. He was a good run blocker, he filled in mostly well - considering the team’s sudden, extreme need - and was a rock as a model of health, but he was not a particularly good pass blocker. Truth is he wasn’t a scheme fit, and there are better tackles still on the market right now (including ones who can project to LT should that need arise, and if it’s a 1-2 week injury it’d be preferable to keep the RT at RT rather than flip back & forth). 

You’re looking at this in a way you shouldn’t, because you’re not considering the 2nd or 3rd best DE will have a far greater impact on the Jets winning additional games than upgrading one of the tackle spots from either of two proven players. I’d agree with you if one of the tackles was pre-2021 Fant, since it wasn’t then known he had it in him to pass-protect as well as he did at LT, and his ceiling seemed to be that of a stopgap swing tackle who’s a below average starter, but that’s no longer the case. 

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18 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Good Write up. What worries me is why we let Moses walk, not for the long term but for short term stability while our QB tries to get it right. If Becton goes down yet again then what ? If we don't address LT or RT in the draft we are back to the streets to fill those voids and that can't be good on any team especially one with a young QB still learning the ropes.

Letting Moses walk was a mistake IMHO on 2 levels 1. the Competition for Becton. And 2. The better stability. I'm not sure it would have been so terrible to offer Moses a three year deal similar to what Baltimore gave him then in year 2 of that contract bring in a future replacement via the draft to play behind Moses and learn. Its not often the Jets bring up players into the starting lineup who have been practicing in the back up role. Steelers do that regularly and it was also a game plan of Parcells and its much better than plugging in a first year player who has to both learn the NFL and the Current scheme.

They didn’t “let” him walk; Moses chose to walk. He wants to start and he certainly wasn’t getting guaranteed a starting job here (nor should they have guaranteed it, since Becton and Fant are both better players). He is starting on Baltimore right now, and that’s a better gig than backing up the Jets’ more talented, starting RT.

Plus the truth is he wasn’t that great in pass protection. Or anyway, he was pretty inconsistent, and had some real stinker games. Damn solid run blocker but, even on a team that wants to run the ball more, objective #1 is keeping the QB upright. Wilson’s upside will not be realized by turning him into White, dumping the ball off 40x which - the awesome surprise vs Cin notwithstanding - doesn’t work consistently once everyone else has seen that’s all you’re doing. 

I’d have been behind re-signing Moses, but there are honestly just as good or better options out there from players who project to both sides; the ones left are just a little older so teams are wary of relying upon them to be the starter from start to finish all season. The Jets need a backup capable of extended-starting, though, not a must-start x 17 games 3rd tackle. 

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