Odds of Icky at 4 just increased dramatically

[jetspenguin]

Definitely possible, but he has has said similar things before. 
That comment struck me along with the comment about there being a lot of "parity" at the WR position in this draft. 

Lol he knows the fan base is already on the edge with him and now that sensitive azz woody is back he might be trying to temper expectations

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[Tranquilo]

7 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said:

OT and then Johnson would be thoroughly depressing.

 

 

Why 

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, xJayce said:

This is BPA talk, right? As long as he's factoring in some level of positional value, sure, why not...

If you combine this quote with what footballguy just posted and what Connor Hughes has been talking about all offseason (the Jets want “tough guys” on the OL), it would seem likely that either Fant or Becton won’t be on the team on Thursday.

[jetspenguin]

Both Ickey and Evan Neal  are better than any tackles we have, and 10 year sure starters at one of the most important position. 

I think the word “might“ fits in the idea that the tackle position “might” be figured out for this season, but there are question marks all over the place for such an important position. This is a player we absolutely need. Becton is an unknown and Fant doesn’t have the years or upside of these two young studs in the draft. We have a chance to get a lockdown tackle.
It’s not a hard decision from the perspective of the biggest need of this team is to shore up all the help you can possibly get for this young quarterback.  But it is a hard and frustrating decision when you think of all the capital we’ve thrown into the tackle position in the past, and when you see that there are other players who can help us greatly. 

I like the way you are thinking but as far as either of these rookies being 10 year starters...... that's what people here were trying to convince me when I said NOT to draft Becton. I was told over and over how he was going to shore up the position for years to come.

My point is this....you never know what a rookie MIGHT be.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[jetspenguin]

Who knows what happens, but I keep reading that Thibodeaux is now a lock to go top three. 

Oh I 100% do NOT think he is dropping to us. Hence the desperate and transparent attempts of JD to pretend he has his sights on other things.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[jetspenguin]

What changed?  Other than everyone has a new mock draft to entice clicks.  

I don't think Thibs was ever not going to be at 4. That's a Jets Twitter thing. Just like we have very little chance of trading for one of these start receivers....except on Twitter.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[jetspenguin]

Between hutch, Thibs and Walker one will fall to 4.  Just draft whoever falls.  I'm sick and tired of watching for 15 years QBs facing us having all day to throw

Please if there is a God in heaven NOT Walker.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[jetspenguin]

Thibs is my guy but we are so desperately in need of EDGE I'd happily roll the dice on either Walker or Hutch

My gut says we wind up with Johnson at 10.....and I think he turns out better than Walker in 3 or 4 years anyway.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[Adoni Beast]

53 minutes ago, football guy said:

Here’s what one inside the Jets organization expects to see occur next Thursday: 

1(4) OL Ickey Ekwonu 
1(10) DE Kayvon Thibodeaux/Jermaine Johnson

WR would be addressed via trade (whether it be Deebo Samuel or trade up into top 25)

Icky and Thibs or JJ II is the best strategy.

If we can’t land Deebo then trading back in late round 1 for Burks or Olave would be pretty ideal.

[Augustiniak]

47 minutes ago, football guy said:

There are a ton of scenarios right now, but this is the one this individual seems confident in. There’s split opinions whether OL or DL should be addressed at 4 but sounds like Ickey is top 3 players on the board, and seems confident one or both DEs will be available at 10 given how deep this class is with DEs. If they weren’t there, WR or trade down could be the strategy. 

If Ickey and Walker went top 3 that’s a scenario where they Jets could find themselves taking one of the DEs a little earlier, or Cross.

Certainoy expecting some sort of trade 

 

Are there really scenarios where the jets would actually take cross at 4 over neal?

[Asymmetrical]

9 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

Why 

Fant contract + 11th pick in 2020 spent on Becton, 4th rounder on Clark + 1st and two 3s on AVT in 2021 + Tomlinson contract and they still need to spend the 4th overall on a tackle in 22? That's a lot of premium resources spent on offensive line. I guess there are worse ways to spend them but still kinda tough to swallow. 

 

JJ makes me nervous since he didn't do much until he was a senior and beating up on younger guys.  He was also pretty low in pass rush win rate if you put any stock into that.

[Asymmetrical]

3 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said:

Fant contract + 11th pick in 2020 spent on Becton, 4th rounder on Clark + 1st and two 3s on AVT in 2021 + Tomlinson contract and they still need to spend the 4th overall on a tackle in 22? That's a lot of premium resources spent on offensive line. I guess there are worse ways to spend them but still kinda tough to swallow. 

 

JJ makes me nervous since he didn't do much until he was a senior and beating up on younger guys.  He was also pretty low in pass rush win rate if you put any stock into that.

 

If Becton is a sunk cost then I see the wisdom in going tackle, but that doesn't make it less depressing.

[section314]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Are there really scenarios where the jets would actually take cross at 4 over neal?

Absolutely could happen. I've heard many reputable people say that Cross is the best, no questions asked, LT in this draft. 

[Tranquilo]

5 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said:

Fant contract + 11th pick in 2020 spent on Becton, 4th rounder on Clark + 1st and two 3s on AVT in 2021 + Tomlinson contract and they still need to spend the 4th overall on a tackle in 22? That's a lot of premium resources spent on offensive line. I guess there are worse ways to spend them but still kinda tough to swallow. 

 

JJ makes me nervous since he didn't do much until he was a senior and beating up on younger guys.  He was also pretty low in pass rush win rate if you put any stock into that.

Fair points 

 

[section314]

3 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said:

 

If Becton is a sunk cost then I see the wisdom in going tackle, but that doesn't make it less depressing.

Other than QB, having a 1st RD LT bust is the biggest nightmare a team can have.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, section314 said:

Absolutely could happen. I've heard many reputable people say that Cross is the best, no questions asked, LT in this draft. 

I’ve seen him mocked to the giants quite a bit.  I guess the question i have now is, if ekongwu and thibs are both there at 4, who do the jets take?

[32EBoozer]

33 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

I don't think Thibs was ever not going to be at 4. That's a Jets Twitter thing. Just like we have very little chance of trading for one of these start receivers....except on Twitter.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.
 

The only way to attract #1 WR talent is to make Zach a top 10 QB.

Round 1: Edge, WR                                        
Round 2: OL & LB                                                                        Round 3: RB/TE                                                                                                                                      
 

Round 4: RB/TE(whichever not taken)DL

Round 5: Special Teams Ace (WR/LB/S)

Hoping we can trade back and get some additional draft capital 

[section314]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

I’ve seen him mocked to the giants quite a bit.  I guess the question i have now is, if ekongwu and thibs are both there at 4, who do the jets take?

I think it has to be Thibs.

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said:

Fant contract + 11th pick in 2020 spent on Becton, 4th rounder on Clark + 1st and two 3s on AVT in 2021 + Tomlinson contract and they still need to spend the 4th overall on a tackle in 22? That's a lot of premium resources spent on offensive line. I guess there are worse ways to spend them but still kinda tough to swallow. 

 

JJ makes me nervous since he didn't do much until he was a senior and beating up on younger guys.  He was also pretty low in pass rush win rate if you put any stock into that.

On the other hand, presuming Becton is a sunk cost, you’re potentially walking away from Thursday with Ekwonu, a really good DE prospect in Johnson (whom Mosqueda hates, however), and possibly a pick at the end of round one that they turn around and use on George Pickens or Treylon Burks. IMO, you’d take that deal moving forward

[Barry McCockinner]

[Adoni Beast]

1 hour ago, Scoop24 said:

Its not likely either of those guys are there at 10. 

Great Icky at 4 - Wilson at 10 it is!

[Jet Nut]

21 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

I don't think Thibs was ever not going to be at 4. That's a Jets Twitter thing. Just like we have very little chance of trading for one of these start receivers....except on Twitter.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.
 

We missed out on WR who wanted to go to Miami.  We’re not out of the Deebo trade watch until he’s traded somewhere else or resigns in SF

[Greenseed4]

Not discounting @football guy’s source.

But if I really wanted a player at #4, I’d make sure it wouldn’t end up in someone’s ear who could tell someone that could potentially tell someone who might potentially post it on the World Wide Web.

You know, unless that’s what I wanted to get posted

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

Here’s what one inside the Jets organization expects to see occur next Thursday: 

1(4) OL Ickey Ekwonu 
1(10) DE Kayvon Thibodeaux/Jermaine Johnson

WR would be addressed via trade (whether it be Deebo Samuel or trade up into top 25)

Walking away with Ickey, Jermaine & DeeBo after the first two days is a home run.

Good to hear.

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

Here’s what one inside the Jets organization expects to see occur next Thursday: 

1(4) OL Ickey Ekwonu 
1(10) DE Kayvon Thibodeaux/Jermaine Johnson

WR would be addressed via trade (whether it be Deebo Samuel or trade up into top 25)

#35 & #69 (295 pts) could get you GB pick at 

#22 (780 pts) or #38 & #69 (265 pts) leaving us #35, 111, 117, 146, 163 = 8 picks. 
 

Better scenario would be trade with NO

[Asymmetrical]

41 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

On the other hand, presuming Becton is a sunk cost, you’re potentially walking away from Thursday with Ekwonu, a really good DE prospect in Johnson (whom Mosqueda hates, however), and possibly a pick at the end of round one that they turn around and use on George Pickens or Treylon Burks. IMO, you’d take that deal moving forward

I get it. I'd still be a little sour but that is also likely a function of not being thrilled about the class as a whole.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

1 hour ago, jetspenguin said:

 

I like the way you are thinking but as far as either of these rookies being 10 year starters...... that's what people here were trying to convince me when I said NOT to draft Becton. I was told over and over how he was going to shore up the position for years to come.

My point is this....you never know what a rookie MIGHT be.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

 

 

Makes total sense. Drafting another O lineman, especially with the other opportunities is maddening, no doubt. 

To apply your point to another position of need: I hope we get a WR before the draft (Deebo, DK, AJ), for the very reason you stated. Drafting is gambling, it is a toss up. 

[T0mShane]

25 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said:

I get it. I'd still be a little sour but that is also likely a function of not being thrilled about the class as a whole.

Every time I hear that it’s a bad draft, I remember that the last “bad draft” was 2017, which was the Mahomes, Watson, Lattimore, TreDavious White draft where we picked the execrable bust Jamal Adams.

[Smashmouth]

I Read the posts here and I have no desire to continue debating about a guy who had cartilage removed from his knee probably due to the fact he's playing a high impact position weighing 360 +.

I'm pretty sure he's been told by multiple people whether they be doctors, coaches or trainers that his weight and playing the game of football are unsustainable. If he comes in to camp at 340 or less that would tell me this kid is serious about the game and his longevity playing football. If he comes in at 360+ again this is not going to work and IMHO it shows total lack of motivation on his part to get better and get healthier yes weight plays a huge part in staying healthy when you're that damn big.

@Sperm Edwards

In the case of Moses he got a nice contract from the Ravens who have been much more successful attaining talented players via the draft and FA So he's good enough for them but not for the Jets ? Really Sperm ? He played the whole season here last year and he would have been my starter at RT and I would have paid him. Just like everyone else he had to learn this scheme as well so there were some struggles. I would have told Becton (If I were coach or GM) Get your ass in gear, come to camp in shape and go win your Job back. In the situation we are in now it would not have been the end of the world to keep 3 Tackles to insure Zach Stays upright and establish a solid running attack along with trying to light a fire under what was supposed to be our Franchise LT for the next 10 + years. You mention Moses was not so hot in Pass protection but neither is Becton who has already seemed to lose the job protecting the QB's blind side. And Moses like everyone else got better as the entire line became more comfortable in the system as the year went on.

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

The only way to attract #1 WR talent is to make Zach a top 10 QB.

You can't "make" Zach into a top 10 QB.  He has to have the internal ability to do that himself.  He has to at least become a top 15-20 QB in his own right before weppinz & OL can assist him in getting to that top 10 level.

[32EBoozer]

31 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He has to at least become a top 15-20 QB in his own right before weppinz & OL can assist him in getting to that top 10 level.

That’s just dumb… respectfully. “Top 15-20 in his own right” in a team sport? Only way to see if he is a top 18 or 15 or ten QB is to give him time in the pocket and a supporting cast

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You can't "make" Zach into a top 10 QB.  He has to have the internal ability to do that himself.  He has to at least become a top 15-20 QB in his own right before weppinz & OL can assist him in getting to that top 10 level.

I mean you can't turn Christian Hackenberg into Peyton Manning but QB's need to be developed and part of that means surrounding them with talent. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

That’s just dumb… respectfully. “Top 15-20 in his own right” in a team sport? Only way to see if he is a top 18 or 15 or ten QB is to give him time in the pocket and a supporting cast

He was given plenty of time last year and the receiving corps wasn't terrible.  There's a reason multiple Jets QB's did fairly well under center last season:  The supporting cast  is decent and will get even better after this draft.  

Now it's on Wilson to prove he can be the guy.  

[Jetsfan80]

40 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I mean you can't turn Christian Hackenberg into Peyton Manning but QB's need to be developed and part of that means surrounding them with talent. 

Sure, but Mark Sanchez had all the advantages you could ask for as a young QB and still failed miserably.  You can't "create" a top 10 QB with a great supporting cast. 

[Zachtomims47]

6 hours ago, Asymmetrical said:

Fant contract + 11th pick in 2020 spent on Becton, 4th rounder on Clark + 1st and two 3s on AVT in 2021 + Tomlinson contract and they still need to spend the 4th overall on a tackle in 22? That's a lot of premium resources spent on offensive line. I guess there are worse ways to spend them but still kinda tough to swallow. 

 

JJ makes me nervous since he didn't do much until he was a senior and beating up on younger guys.  He was also pretty low in pass rush win rate if you put any stock into that.

It’s a lot of resources but it’s nice to have a GM that’s dedicated to fixing one of the most important things in football and something this team has lacked since 09. 

And honestly, if they’re over Becton, I respect them even more for moving on so quickly and striking while they can before that position turns into a turnstile getting your QB killed.