Odds of Icky at 4 just increased dramatically

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, 68JET11 said:

If all the Becton rumors are true then not only do we need a LT, we need a RT as well, because I believe Ekwonu was always going to be the RT here due to his better skills as a run blocker. I don't believe they wanted to extend Fant, but they may have to at some point change their mind at that, because of Becton. If he can't replace Fant as the LT of the future you may be looking at drafting 2 OT's in this years draft. One up top, and one near the bottom as developmental. If not this year, then for sure another LT in 2023.

This would undoubtedly please @slats

[Augustiniak]

47 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If Becton gets injured again, why is the only viable choice framed as being between Edoga and a rookie drafted in the top 10?

There are about 10 starting tackles still available as unsigned FAs. No, they’re not the 10 best in the league, but they’d look like such compared to f’ing Edoga.

It could very well be Douglas is just waiting until the draft is over, just to not pigeonhole himself into or out of draft options. Still, there’s no way - or really, no valid excuse where - Douglas heads into the season with Edoga as the team’s RT2, irrespective of whether or not he drafted a tackle in the top 10, or the top 100, or not at all.

And if he’s even considering drafting a tackle in the top 10, as he reportedly very much is, it seems decidedly unlikely he heads into the season with just McDermott & Edoga as the OT3 and OT4.

Just saying, this binary choice being framed is a false one.

Because if you don’t address OT in the draft you’re again at the mercy of FA where guys don’t have to go to the jets.  At least in the draft you control your destiny much more.  It would definitely be a shame, and negligence on the gm’s behalf, if he didn’t address OT early when he had 4 early picks in a relatively weak draft where they’re not qb hunting, and then have becton flake out again and they’re cobbling together tackles while trying to develop wilson.  Now is the time.  

[Sperm Edwards]

48 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

Can’t believe I’m sort of agreeing with @bitonti

 

It’s happened to me a few times, too. Several times, over this many years, but agree it’s still between shocking and unnerving when it occurs.

It’s especially difficult when it’s come in the same week as other comments like Woody is cash poor. Those are the times you re-read his post 3 more times before actually conceding agreement. It does happen, though.

[Sperm Edwards]

14 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Because if you don’t address OT in the draft you’re again at the mercy of FA where guys don’t have to go to the jets.  At least in the draft you control your destiny much more.  It would definitely be a shame, and negligence on the gm’s behalf, if he didn’t address OT early when he had 4 early picks in a relatively weak draft where they’re not qb hunting, and then have becton flake out again and they’re cobbling together tackles while trying to develop wilson.  Now is the time.  

There are more out of work players than teams looking to sign them. A couple might be waiting for injuries to occur, but this offseason there are far more available than in the past.

If the Jets can sign multiple FA starters who are far more in demand than any of these out of work guys, then they can land one of them with little difficulty just like they signed Moses last year (whose availability was much bigger news league-wide).

It’d be one thing if 5 of them rebuffed JD’s offers, but absent that this is an unwarranted fear. There is no binary choice between a top 10 (let alone top 4) pick vs. Edoga as the team’s RT2.

[Augustiniak]

9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There are more out of work players than teams looking to sign them. A couple might be waiting for injuries to occur, but this offseason there are far more available than in the past.

If the Jets can sign multiple FA starters who are far more in demand than any of these out of work guys, then they can land one of them with little difficulty just like they signed Moses last year (whose availability was much bigger news league-wide).

It’d be one thing if 5 of them rebuffed JD’s offers, but absent that this is an unwarranted fear. There is no binary choice between a top 10 (let alone top 4) pick vs. Edoga as the team’s RT2.

We’re not talking about a pure hypothetical decision tree.  Douglas is drafting for his job.  If there isn’t a concerted effort to hedge becton’s flakiness, and we’re all sitting around here next april wondering if they’re going to draft a tackle, then douglas hasn’t done his primary job which is to fortify the OL so the offense can be a real nfl offense.  The jets were quite fortunate last year that Moses was there and he and fant played so well.  

To be clear I’m not saying 4 or 10 must be an OT but i think 1 of the first 4 picks can be one.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

We’re not talking about a pure hypothetical decision tree.  Douglas is drafting for his job.  If there isn’t a concerted effort to hedge becton’s flakiness, and we’re all sitting around here next april wondering if they’re going to draft a tackle, then douglas hasn’t done his primary job which is to fortify the OL so the offense can be a real nfl offense.  The jets were quite fortunate last year that Moses was there and he and fant played so well.  

Nah, if he was that concerned about who'd be available after the draft then he'd have signed another tackle already instead of stopping at re-signing McDermott as he heads into the draft. 

I disagree with the premise that drafting tackle depth is required "so the offense can be a real nfl offense" when what they need more is another playmaker to catch footballs, rush the passer, and other needs. Not that it's the desired outcome/goal, but teams field "real offenses" quite frequently with multiple meh starters on the line, and even with backup tackles on the field. Again, it's a false binary.

I don't see where you go from "fortunate Moses was there" - yet picked the Jets over his other options, when there weren't any other starter-worthy tackles left in FA - to "mercy of FA" with the idea that zero of these out of work tackles, still out of work after the draft, will refuse a job paying millions because Jets.

It's a supply/demand thing, as always. I've never seen this many starting NFL tackles still available at this juncture, so I'm tepidly thinking/hoping Douglas is playing it right so far, and just doesn't want a situation where he's already got 3 starting tackles under contract heading into a draft where he may be looking at a tackle as the best pick (or for the optics of whom he might pick).

Regardless, every one of these available tackles - and you can bet their agents - can see an on-field opportunity here just as easily as thousands of Jets fans can see your fear of a Becton-less Jets team having to start Edoga. 

Edoga will not be the RT2. Odds are good he won't even make the final roster; they merely haven't cut him yet because there's not yet any point. 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Nah, if he was that concerned about who'd be available after the draft then he'd have signed another tackle already instead of stopping at re-signing McDermott as he heads into the draft. 

I disagree with the premise that drafting tackle depth is required "so the offense can be a real nfl offense" when what they need more is another playmaker to catch footballs. Not that it's the desired outcome/goal, but teams field "real offenses" quite frequently with multiple meh starters on the line, and even with backup tackles on the field. Again, it's a false binary.

I don't see where you go from "fortunate Moses was there" - yet picked the Jets over his other options, when there weren't any other starter-worthy tackles left in FA - to "mercy of FA" with the idea that zero of these out of work tackles, still out of work after the draft, will refuse a job paying millions because Jets.

It's a supply/demand thing, as always. I've never seen this many starting NFL tackles still available at this juncture, so I'm tepidly thinking/hoping Douglas is playing it right so far, and just doesn't want a situation where he's already got 3 starting tackles under contract heading into a draft where he may be looking at a tackle as the best pick (or for the optics of whom he might pick).

Regardless, every one of these available tackles - and you can bet their agents - can see an on-field opportunity here just as easily as thousands of Jets fans can see your fear of a Becton-less Jets team having to start Edoga. 

Edoga will not be the RT2. Odds are good he won't even make the final roster; they merely haven't cut him yet because there's not yet any point. 

I’m of the opinion that becton will at best be in and out of the lineup this season.  My preferred solution is to draft his replacement, trade becton while he has value and move on.  I gather your preferred solution is to beef up the tackle positions in FA after the draft.  We can agree to disagree here.  I think douglas’ job depends on wilson making a significant improvement and part of this is having viable tackles.  Sure they need another wr too.

[kmnj]

after becton I would strongly prefer Joe not risk busting twice on online at the top of the draft-go with an edge rusher and a wr -those are the impact players that can be the core of your team and also create excitement among the fans

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

I’m of the opinion that becton will at best be in and out of the lineup this season.  My preferred solution is to draft his replacement, trade becton while he has value and move on.  I gather your preferred solution is to beef up the tackle positions in FA after the draft.  We can agree to disagree here.  I think douglas’ job depends on wilson making a significant improvement and part of this is having viable tackles.  Sure they need another wr too.

I just don't think a rookie - particularly one with some questions about his pass blocking - is really the best option for someone on & off the field at a rhythm/consistency position that isn't typically a rotation-type position (like all other positions other than QB/OL).

That off & on the field role is far better suited for a veteran with years of starting experience, which would doubly preserve a top 4 or top 10 pick to use in other ways (including trading it). The reason most of these guys are available is they're older, and most teams don't want to rely on a starter that old to make it through the season. But as a reserve/swing tackle? In a pinch with no notice, a number of them would be superior to a rookie who'd already be challenged with working his way through a shift away from predominantly man-blocking. 

No problem agreeing to disagree, as we clearly do (and I've eaten my own words before, though it typically requires an empty stomach).

[Jimmy 2 Times]

He’s going to take the top player on his board regardless of position.

If Chase was in this draft, he’d go receiver.

If it’s tackle, then it’s tackle. 

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

They can’t go into the season relying exclusively on becton.  I believe at this point that ekongwu is plan A.  If he’s gone, they’ll probably take thibs or JJ and then try to get an OT at 10 like cross.  

If they don’t draft an OT and the tackle starters on opening day are fant and edoga, we’re starting into the abyss of another lost season and another regime change.

I’d think they’ll make the calculation that there’s a 30% chance that they get a motivated Becton who can stay healthy for 17 starts and, presuming Ekonwu is available, trade Becton for whatever and draft Ekonwu. Saleh gets rid of a headache, and Douglas pulls a three card monty at OT.

[Dunnie]

Jaguars possibly targetting Sauce at 1 ... god please make this true.

[T0mShane]

This could all be academic anyway. I just heard Jeremiah say that the fight in Jacksonville is between Ekonwu and Travon Walker, with Pederson pushing for Ekonwu.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

This could all be academic anyway. I just heard Jeremiah say that the fight in Jacksonville is between Ekonwu and Travon Walker, with Pederson pushing for Ekonwu.

Peterson really wants to take an offensive player and there are no wrs worthy of the slot.  So the next best thing would be ekongwu.  I do think ekongwu goes top 3, along with hutch and either Gardner or walker.  I do think it’s more likely than not that the jets end up with thibs, who reminds me of john Abraham, a mercurial edge guy who can get his sacks but won’t ball every play.  

[Scoop24]

 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This would undoubtedly please @slats

If only there was a tool to keep players around even if two sides can’t agree to a contract! 

Welp, better assume we can’t keep Fant in 2023 and plan for his departure a year in advance. 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

 

Ah yes, to go back to the golden days of 2021 when Zach Wilson was going to rightfully get picked in the the third round. 

[slimjasi]

27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This could all be academic anyway. I just heard Jeremiah say that the fight in Jacksonville is between Ekonwu and Travon Walker, with Pederson pushing for Ekonwu.

Wouldn't shock me at all to see them take Ickey. Makes a lot of sense

[Jetsfan80]

38 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

If only there was a tool to keep players around even if two sides can’t agree to a contract! 

Welp, better assume we can’t keep Fant in 2023 and plan for his departure a year in advance. 

To be fair, Jets fans aren’t used to the Jets having players who are:  1) Worth keeping around; 2) want to stay; and 3) someone the front office is willing to pay.

Players with all 3 of the above are commonplace for competent organizations but not for the Jets. 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

23 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

 

No. This is dumb. Don't do this at all. What you are told the last five months of the draft process is content hastily produced to fill demand, when there's demand. Why would that be a good indicator of the reliability of the information? You don't have to believe the derptakes are important just because the people selling them to you tell you they are.

Whether or not the stuff you've heard in the last 48 hours is presently factually true or an accurate prediction of the future, it is out there for some reason other than to kill time.

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If Becton gets injured again, why is the only viable choice framed as being between Edoga and a rookie drafted in the top 10?

There are about 10 starting tackles still available as unsigned FAs. No, they’re not the 10 best in the league, but they’d look like such compared to f’ing Edoga.

It could very well be Douglas is just waiting until the draft is over, just to not pigeonhole himself into or out of draft options. Still, there’s no way - or really, no valid excuse where - Douglas heads into the season with Edoga as the team’s RT2, irrespective of whether or not he drafted a tackle in the top 10, or the top 100, or not at all.

And if he’s even considering drafting a tackle in the top 10, as he reportedly very much is, it seems decidedly unlikely he heads into the season with just McDermott & Edoga as the OT3 and OT4.

Just saying, this binary choice being framed is a false one.

Please provide a list of viable free agent starting tackles. You mentioned 10. I'll spot you 1

Eric Fisher btw is basically done after the Achilles. 

9 more please 

[bitonti]

47 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

If only there was a tool to keep players around even if two sides can’t agree to a contract! 

Welp, better assume we can’t keep Fant in 2023 and plan for his departure a year in advance. 

The franchise tag for linemen is 17 per

Fant isn't worth that, and everyone agrees 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

The franchise tag for linemen is 17 per

Fant isn't worth that, and everyone agrees 

I’m with you on the OL train, fant will be very expensive and becton is a massive question mark.  They really need to address OT with one of those top 4 picks.

[Scoop24]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Please provide a list of viable free agent starting tackles. You mentioned 10. I'll spot you 1

Eric Fisher btw is basically done after the Achilles. 

9 more please 

Played to a similar level as All pro George Fant according to pff. 

[bitonti]

8 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

Played to a similar level as All pro George Fant according to pff. 

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic 

Fant is like a 30th ranked pff if memory serves 

[Scoop24]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic 

Fant is like a 30th ranked pff if memory serves 

Lmaoo of course im being sarcastic.. he is only a all pro on jetnation

[choon328]

19 hours ago, JetBlue said:

I have never seen a fan base so eager to dump on and bail on it's young players.   The guy has been working non stop with his personal trainer and not be attending VOLUNTARY OTAs to be with his girlfriend as she is expecting their first child.   Can everyone calm the **** down and find something else to whine and bitch about?  Do you really think he is not going to come into camp ready to go?  THIS IS HIS CAREER, not yours.   All the stupid speculation is just that stupid speculation.  Folks are getting themselves all worked up over nothing.  He got hurt last year, it happens.  The level of HATE against our own young players truly is disgusting; whether it is Becton, Wilson or Mims.  It is like we really don't deserve to have a good team; we are so incredibly impatient and  refuse to give players a chance to either adjust, overcome injuries or any other adversity they experience.  First thing folks scream is BUST, CUT HIM, TRADE HIM, DRAFT HIS REPLACEMENT BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.  I wish some of you would just step back, take a breath and allow things to play out, with at least a positive slant instead of doom and gloom 24/7.  Makes reading this board less and less enjoyable. 

Did he come into camp "ready to go" last year? Why should anybody give him the benefit of the doubt. Get off your high horse. 

[slats]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

This could all be academic anyway. I just heard Jeremiah say that the fight in Jacksonville is between Ekonwu and Travon Walker, with Pederson pushing for Ekonwu.

Yes please. 

[choon328]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

This summary of the Becton situation from reddit 

Summary of the Becton situation:

- Becton missed 30% of 2020 and almost all of 2021 (percentage of offensive snaps). He's suffered 3 major injuries since he came into the league. Shoulder injury in 2020, plantar fasciitis in 2020/2021 and knee cap dislocation and MCL sprain in 2021.

- Becton came into 2021 in terrible shape and was getting destroyed by Carl Lawson in camp. Lawson is good but it's not like he's a top 10 defensive end. Offensive coordinator publicly called out Becton for his issues during 2021 training camp. [Link](https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nfl/jets/2021/09/10/ny-jets-mekhi-becton-confused-oc-mike-lafleur-comments/5755285001/)

- Becton was supposed to miss 4 to 8 weeks in 2021, per the Jets front office, but he ended up missing the entire season. He got really fat during that time which is pretty much irredeemable as a professional athlete [Link](https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/89287/can-new-york-jets-mekhi-becton-disprove-critics-as-he-approaches-pivotal-year). Head coach publicly called out Becton during the 2021 offseason saying that his issues were mental and that the left tackle job would be a competition going forward [Link](https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/02/01/robert-saleh-lt-competition-mekhi-becton-george-fant/). Saleh also made some indirect comments about how he wants players that consistently show up and aren't changed by money during a press conference. [Link, don't know the timestamp](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4LVlpSM72s&t=2187s)

- His trainer, Duke Manyweather kind of acts as Becton's hypeman (Duke's a good guy and good on him for doing that). Duke brought up that the injury wasn't a 4-12 week injury and that it was a much bigger injury [Link](https://twitter.com/BigDuke50/status/1512862947932057602?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw). A few things: where did the communication fail between Becton's team, the doctor, and the Jet's front office where the Jets were under the impression that this was a 4-8 week injury? Why didn't the Jets provide an update to the fans and say it was way more serious? If the doctor failed to communicate the injury timeline to Becton or the Jets, isn't that pretty serious malpractice? Are they investigating/suing the surgeon for malpractice? Was this a failure on Becton's team to communicate to the Jets? This is one of a couple really weird miscommunications between Becton and the Jets.

- During the 2022 offseason, the Jets gave Becton till OTA's to be in shape [Link](https://twitter.com/mikegarafolo/status/1482415658113634308?lang=en). This was essentially 7.5 months to recover from the 4-8 week injury. Becton did not show up to OTA's when most of the oline and team did. His reasoning was that he is expecting his first child in May (understandable). During the OTA press conference, another strange miscommunication occurred where our GM appeared to not know the reason that Becton was missing OTA's [Link around 20 minutes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nrvq3gug-A). Our center, Connor McGovern, was absent from OTA's due to child birth as well but the GM was fully aware that McGovern was absent due to his child's birth and brought it up right away when asked about McGovern's absence (refer to above link - a little bit before the 20 minute timestamp). If our GM was unaware that Becton was having a kid, it's another poor instance of communication between Becton's team and the Jet's front office. If our GM was aware, and chose not to say why Becton was absent, then it probably means that he was upset that Becton wasn't attending.

- Becton is constantly bitching about fans that question his work ethic on twitter. Him and his trainer post workout videos of him doing cardio routines that everyone and their mother can do. Becton essentially needs haters in order to motivate himself to not be obese and he's only been in the league for 2 years. He doesn't seem to be self motivated. 

- Becton can be traded post June 1 for a $2mm dead money hit to the cap which the Jets can afford since we have the least in dead money of all teams in the league.

- Fant only has 1 year left on his contract. Fant, in his best year, played above average. He wasn't anything good or special. He's consistent and a good presence and the team is trying to re-sign him. However he has considerable leverage since Becton is such a big question mark.

- The Jets are looking at starting 2023 with possibly 2 huge holes at offensive tackle which is one of the most important positions on offense after QB. The 2023 offensive tackle draft class does not look good thus far. Similar to 2021 when they replaced an injury-prone player with some upside in Darnold, they could do the same with Becton. I'm pretty sure the Jets don't want to sign Becton to a big contract after his rookie contract is over since he can't motivate himself and he's gone through several injuries. So why not cut the cord a year early and take a blue chip prospect like Ekwonu/Neal/Cross at 4?

That's a condensed summary. There are beat writers and Jets podcasters who have talked about it as well and they actually spoke to Jets' staff at various venues.

I think it's pretty obvious what happened with the 4-8 week timetable and why it took much longer. The already overweight player gets a leg injury, gains about 30-40 lbs in 6-8 weeks and is not in playing shape. So the Jets sit him out the rest of the year and do him a favor and not tell the true reason he was out longer. 

[choon328]

44 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

No. This is dumb. Don't do this at all. What you are told the last five months of the draft process is content hastily produced to fill demand, when there's demand. Why would that be a good indicator of the reliability of the information? You don't have to believe the derptakes are important just because the people selling them to you tell you they are.

Whether or not the stuff you've heard in the last 48 hours is presently factually true or an accurate prediction of the future, it is out there for some reason other than to kill time.

Isn't there inherently way more demand to produce "insider" content the last 48 hours prior to the draft than 3 months ago?

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

5 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Isn't there inherently way more demand to produce "insider" content the last 48 hours prior to the draft than 3 months ago?

Of course not.

[Scoop24]

Todays rumors 

 

 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Scoop24 said:

Todays rumors 

 

 

I would not be surprised if this is the best smokescreen so thibs falls to them. 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Scoop24 said:

Todays rumors 

 

 

All discussion of need aside he's exactly what jd wants out of a high draft pick 

Better than signing a stop gap like Dennis Kelly or Bryan Bulaga 

 

[jamesr]

2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

I’m of the opinion that becton will at best be in and out of the lineup this season.  My preferred solution is to draft his replacement, trade becton while he has value and move on.  I gather your preferred solution is to beef up the tackle positions in FA after the draft.  We can agree to disagree here.  I think douglas’ job depends on wilson making a significant improvement and part of this is having viable tackles.  Sure they need another wr too.

Let's assume Becton quits football tomorrow and we never see or hear from him again. We still have a good quality starting LT in Fant, and a warm body / JAG backup in McDermott but at least someone that has seen real game action. At RT we have Edoga as a warm body / JAG backup and no existing starter.

Drafting, or signing a FA, to play RT (or doing both and kicking Edoga out the door) should not be a big challenge, and really shouldn't require high draft capital. Round 2 maybe, if there's a guy they really like, but Round 3 should be perfectly doable too. We don't need a top 10 RT for Zach to succeed, especially if it means skimping on another more premium position. I know there's the whole question over Fant's contract as he's in his last year - but we're not that strong a team right now that we can start to solve 2023 problems this far in advance with top picks.

If we do go OT at either 4 or 10 it's going to take a lot of convincing that it was the best move available. Especially if we end up hoping that Mims works out, or maybe some Day 2 pass rusher will light it up for us.

Sigh ... I'm finding myself getting more and more worried about this draft rather than being excited about it. Thank goodness it'll all be over soon. ?