Odds of Icky at 4 just increased dramatically

[PepPep]

22 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

 

"He & McGovern are the only linemen not in attendance, and McGovern (out because his wife had a baby) will be there Monday."

Its interesting to me the way the media portrays this and how some fans go ballistic. I did not realize this myself. Again, because of lack of media coverage, but Becton is ALSO expecting a baby.

Huh, funny how that goes. These are voluntary workouts, nobody says a word about McGovern missing them because he has a child on the way. But Becton, who also has a kid on the way is villainized for it because he was injured and couldn't make it back to the field based on some peoples opinions on how long it should take him to recover and get back into football shape. Last I checked McGovern is also coming off injury. 

Once again I am convinced Jet fans are some of the first ones to turn on their best players. 

[Barry McCockinner]

6 minutes ago, PepPep said:

"He & McGovern are the only linemen not in attendance, and McGovern (out because his wife had a baby) will be there Monday."

Its interesting to me the way the media portrays this and how some fans go ballistic. I did not realize this myself. Again, because of lack of media coverage, but Becton is ALSO expecting a baby.

Huh, funny how that goes. These are voluntary workouts, nobody says a word about McGovern missing them because he has a child on the way. But Becton, who also has a kid on the way is villainized for it because he was injured and couldn't make it back to the field based on some peoples opinions on how long it should take him to recover and get back into football shape. Last I checked McGovern is also coming off injury. 

Once again I am convinced Jet fans are some of the first ones to turn on their best players. 

Connor Hughes is such a kunt for that tweet too. He roasts Becton while breezing over McGovern. 

[Alka]

31 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Plus you have the reality where the jets have the 4 and 10 picks in a weak draft class, where they’re not in the market for a qb, it is difficult to trade out of 4, the edge rushers are good not great and debatable who’s better anyway.  In other words, even if douglas were to go BAP, OL could justifiably be the pick.  So if saleh and his staff feel that becton is toast, then just trade him, draft his replacement and move on.  Rip off the band aid while the guy’s trade value may still be high.

I agree with you, but who said that the Jets would have to trade Becton at all?  Becton is on his rookie contract still, going into year #3, and if Ecky is drafted, he would be on his rookie contract.  Fant becomes a free agent after this year, and my feeling is he would want somewhere around $15M per year to stay with the Jets.  If Fant plays great and Becton gets injured again, then you resign Fant and trade Becton.  Or, if Becton plays great and Fant is just okay, you move on from Fant, and you have both Ecky and Becton moving forward.  

If JD is really interested in drafting the best available player, and Hutchinson and Sauce are gone by #4, then the BAP just might be Ecky.  Who knows?

[Phillyjet]

12 minutes ago, PepPep said:

"He & McGovern are the only linemen not in attendance, and McGovern (out because his wife had a baby) will be there Monday."

Its interesting to me the way the media portrays this and how some fans go ballistic. I did not realize this myself. Again, because of lack of media coverage, but Becton is ALSO expecting a baby.

Huh, funny how that goes. These are voluntary workouts, nobody says a word about McGovern missing them because he has a child on the way. But Becton, who also has a kid on the way is villainized for it because he was injured and couldn't make it back to the field based on some peoples opinions on how long it should take him to recover and get back into football shape. Last I checked McGovern is also coming off injury. 

Once again I am convinced Jet fans are some of the first ones to turn on their best players. 

Hear ya, and I am not inclined to overthink his being away for OTAs but playing in NY you have to be somewhat saavy to the messaging.  At the very least, he could have tweeted out (he seems to have lots of other stuff to say) a message to his teammates about being home but looking forward to seeing them.  Could have defused the situation from the get-go. 

This is a self-inflicted wound.  There is no way around it.  The optics are terrible. Who knows, maybe he is trying to force a trade?  Hard to know what is going on here, but doesn't look good.

[PepPep]

7 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

Hear ya, and I am not inclined to overthink his being away for OTAs but playing in NY you have to be somewhat saavy to the messaging.  At the very least, he could have tweeted out (he seems to have lots of other stuff to say) a message to his teammates about being home but looking forward to seeing them.  Could have defused the situation from the get-go. 

This is a self-inflicted wound.  There is no way around it.  The optics are terrible. Who knows, maybe he is trying to force a trade?  Hard to know what is going on here, but doesn't look good.

Yea, fair enough but who cares. All this speculation to the nth degree reminds me of a scene from Mean Girls. Its like, relax, the dude is working hard to get back on the field, he is finally healthy, we all know if he comes back at full strength he is going to be an absolute monster, the draft is coming- in literally 6 days, no need to attack him for missing voluntary workouts. Some of the s**t you hear FANS say about him is absolutely ridiculous, insulting his intelligence, calling him a slob, a lazy piece of s**t, greedy. Like, some Jet fans just need to chill with that. 

[ZachEY]

41 minutes ago, PepPep said:

"He & McGovern are the only linemen not in attendance, and McGovern (out because his wife had a baby) will be there Monday."

Its interesting to me the way the media portrays this and how some fans go ballistic. I did not realize this myself. Again, because of lack of media coverage, but Becton is ALSO expecting a baby.

Huh, funny how that goes. These are voluntary workouts, nobody says a word about McGovern missing them because he has a child on the way. But Becton, who also has a kid on the way is villainized for it because he was injured and couldn't make it back to the field based on some peoples opinions on how long it should take him to recover and get back into football shape. Last I checked McGovern is also coming off injury. 

Once again I am convinced Jet fans are some of the first ones to turn on their best players. 

McGovern literally had the baby and he is joining on Monday.  Becton's girlfriend is expecting in like 3 weeks.

They're not covered the same because those are not the same thing.

The moment Becton's girlfriend had a contraction, he could get on Woody's private plane and be there in less than 6 hours.  3 weeks before my wife had our kids, I was working.

[TheClashFan]

I don't get all the drama with this.  Becton showing or not showing up for OTAs isn't really the main potential problem with him, especially if his wife is close to giving birth.  It is his ability to stay healthy and on the field.

That's why the Jets need to draft another OT fairly early (and also to have someone with a full year of development before next offseason in case Fant leaves). Oh, also Fant has missed 4 games in 2 years here.  The Jets need a third starter quality OT if they keep Becton.

I still think JD should grab one in round 2, even if he signs a vet stopgap for a year.  Use the first round to address Edge for sure, and maybe WR or LB.

 

[Phillyjet]

11 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Yea, fair enough but who cares. All this speculation to the nth degree reminds me of a scene from Mean Girls. Its like, relax, the dude is working hard to get back on the field, he is finally healthy, we all know if he comes back at full strength he is going to be an absolute monster, the draft is coming- in literally 6 days, no need to attack him for missing voluntary workouts. Some of the s**t you hear FANS say about him is absolutely ridiculous, insulting his intelligence, calling him a slob, a lazy piece of s**t, greedy. Like, some Jet fans just need to chill with that. 

couldn't agree with you more on that... really lame some of the personal attacks.  Stick to talking about his play on the field.  The personal grievances against football players I've never understood.  

[HawkeyeJet]

15 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

McGovern literally had the baby and he is joining on Monday.  Becton's girlfriend is expecting in like 3 weeks.

They're not covered the same because those are not the same thing.

The moment Becton's girlfriend had a contraction, he could get on Woody's private plane and be there in less than 6 hours.  3 weeks before my wife had our kids, I was working.

Exactly.   Let’s not pretend that Becton doesn’t have access to things regarding travel that most of us schlubs don’t.  

If a contraction happens, or even something that could be remotely confused as a contraction, hop on the plane and you are back at home with the Wife before she’s even close to going to the hospital.

And it’s not even taking into account that a baby in week 37 is not that common.  Not entirely uncommon, but not likely. 

If she was 39 weeks pregnant or on bed rest or something then I would not think twice about it.  To each their own I suppose.

[Augustiniak]

42 minutes ago, Alka said:

I agree with you, but who said that the Jets would have to trade Becton at all?  Becton is on his rookie contract still, going into year #3, and if Ecky is drafted, he would be on his rookie contract.  Fant becomes a free agent after this year, and my feeling is he would want somewhere around $15M per year to stay with the Jets.  If Fant plays great and Becton gets injured again, then you resign Fant and trade Becton.  Or, if Becton plays great and Fant is just okay, you move on from Fant, and you have both Ecky and Becton moving forward.  

If JD is really interested in drafting the best available player, and Hutchinson and Sauce are gone by #4, then the BAP just might be Ecky.  Who knows?

I think you may need to trade becton while he may still have real trade value.  If he’s hurt again this year you’re getting nothing.  Now you may.

[PepPep]

14 minutes ago, TheClashFan said:

Oh, also Fant has missed 4 games in 2 years here

This is NOT a lot of missed time lmfao. If you told me I had a legit LT for a decade but he typically missed 2 games a season, sign me the F up. NFL players get hurt A LOT.  

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Penning right now are the only guys he would absolutely have no worries playing LT right out of the gate

Heard a pretty interesting interview with Brandon Thorn, whose thing is OL, and he was not high on Penning at all. Said he had all the tools, etc, but was a mess from a technique standpoint. FWIW

[Tranquilo]

I’m not smart enough to project who’s gonna be the best tackle or best receiver or edge or whatever but I would like to see those positions addressed. I think there’s 0 downside to selecting an OT at 4 or 10. You can’t go wrong with protecting your QB, just like you can’t go wrong with a pass rusher. I just hope they pick the right ones. 

[HawkeyeJet]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Heard a pretty interesting interview with Brandon Thorn, whose thing is OL, and he was not high on Penning at all. Said he had all the tools, etc, but was a mess from a technique standpoint. FWIW

I have not heard the interview with Thorn, but have seen several people on Twitter who I generally trust who have big question marks about Penning.  One guy went as far as to imply that Penning is a fake tough guy that puffs up to try and hide his issues with technique etc

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

Plus you have the reality where the jets have the 4 and 10 picks in a weak draft class, where they’re not in the market for a qb, it is difficult to trade out of 4, the edge rushers are good not great and debatable who’s better anyway.  In other words, even if douglas were to go BAP, OL could justifiably be the pick.  So if saleh and his staff feel that becton is toast, then just trade him, draft his replacement and move on.  Rip off the band aid while the guy’s trade value may still be high.

100%. I don’t think we give enough consideration to the idea that Saleh deserves a chance to stock the roster with his guys, and the fact is that he inherited a roster with a large contingent of Gase’s guys. If he thinks Becton is a drag on his program, they should get rid of Becton. 

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Heard a pretty interesting interview with Brandon Thorn, whose thing is OL, and he was not high on Penning at all. Said he had all the tools, etc, but was a mess from a technique standpoint. FWIW

I heard that as well.  Undisciplined needs to improve technique, use of hands. Pretty much branded him as an overrated prospect. 

[Dcat]

11 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I think you may need to trade becton while he may still have real trade value.  If he’s hurt again this year you’re getting nothing.  Now you may.

Maybe get Pete Carroll on the phone?

[T0mShane]

Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

I have not heard the interview with Thorn, but have seen several people on Twitter who I generally trust who have big question marks about Penning.  One guy went as far as to imply that Penning is a fake tough guy that puffs up to try and hide his issues with technique etc

Definitely have heard that. Also have heard that his stock is being inflated because teams missed really hard on Spencer Brown, who was (like Penning) a huge, athletic tackle prospect from UNI who kicked a lot of ass for the Bills last year. 

[Barry McCockinner]

23 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Exactly.   Let’s not pretend that Becton doesn’t have access to things regarding travel that most of us schlubs don’t.  

If a contraction happens, or even something that could be remotely confused as a contraction, hop on the plane and you are back at home with the Wife before she’s even close to going to the hospital.

And it’s not even taking into account that a baby in week 37 is not that common.  Not entirely uncommon, but not likely. 

If she was 39 weeks pregnant or on bed rest or something then I would not think twice about it.  To each their own I suppose.

No one has any information on the details of the Becton pregnancy. Common or not, people give birth much earlier than 40 weeks all the time. Things come up and if you have a high risk pregnancy the chance of needing to have the baby prior to week 40 is higher. I know this from experience as my wife had a high risk pregnancy and had to give birth much earlier. I'm not saying this is the case with Becton but no one knows any of the private details. Everyone assuming everything is perfect and "normal" is taking a lot for granted. Almost 10% of all babies born in the US are born prior to week 37. That's 1 in 10 for all the math wizards out there.

Stop pretending like you know the details of this situation. Not all pregnancies are created equal.

Aside from that, we're talking about voluntary workouts that can easily be done off site. Even if it's not a high risk pregnancy is there really any urgency to him working out in NJ vs. TX when his baby is almost due? 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

22 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

couldn't agree with you more on that... really lame some of the personal attacks.  Stick to talking about his play on the field.  The personal grievances against football players I've never understood.  

I'd love to see pictures of some of these Jets fans all over Becton - and their performance reviews from work.  How about we wait to see what happens next week and then in training camp. All of this stuff is pure speculation.  The same people who are all over Becton are screaming for the Jets to trade multiple picks and pay $30 million a season to a player like AJ Brown, who can't stay on the field.  Next year, this board will be filled with threads seeking to fire JD for sending two top picks and paying $150 million for a receiver who misses half the season with a strained hamstring or a lisfranc injury or a knee injury or a high ankle sprain.........

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Aside from that, we're talking about voluntary workouts that can easily be done off site. Even if it's not a high risk pregnancy is there really any urgency to him working out in NJ vs. TX? 

He is the former 11th overally pick who showed up to camp out of shape and then effectively opted out of playing football last season. If the hope was that he’s show some contrition or maturity, not showing up yesterday likely dashed those hopes. He hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt here, at all.

[slats]

3 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

I’m not smart enough to project who’s gonna be the best tackle or best receiver or edge or whatever but I would like to see those positions addressed. I think there’s 0 downside to selecting an OT at 4 or 10. You can’t go wrong with protecting your QB, just like you can’t go wrong with a pass rusher. I just hope they pick the right ones. 

It’s all downside. It’s skipping on a player the team actually needs to instead use a high pick on an area of the team that doesn’t need it. It’s a wasteful net negative that, if it moves the win-loss bar at all, moves it towards more losses. This team needs playmakers on both sides of the ball. If they need an OT, there are still starting caliber players available in free agency. If Icky or Neal is so worthy of the #4 pick, hopefully someone will want to trade up to take him. Really hoping one or both of those guys go before the Jets’ pick. 
 
Edge, WR, CB, S, RB, LB, TE, DT… every other group on the team needs more help than the OL, which was actually pretty good once they figured out what they were doing in this new system. 

[Augustiniak]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

100%. I don’t think we give enough consideration to the idea that Saleh deserves a chance to stock the roster with his guys, and the fact is that he inherited a roster with a large contingent of Gase’s guys. If he thinks Becton is a drag on his program, they should get rid of Becton. 

I have to believe that douglas has a scenario where he takes ekongwu and then trades becton, even if it’s for 2023 draft capital.  Then he can go edge at 10 which is probably what he wants to do anyway, is consistent with BAP, and avoids reaching for a wr who is likely to be a role player on this team. 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

He is the former 11th overally pick who showed up to camp out of shape and then effectively opted out of playing football last season. If the hope was that he’s show some contrition or maturity, not showing up yesterday likely dashed those hopes. He hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt here, at all.

This doesn't answer the question you quoted. What is the urgency of working out in NJ as opposed to TX especially given his situation?

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This doesn't answer the question you quoted. What is the urgency of working out in NJ as opposed to TX especially given his situation?

Well, one benefit would be that he supposedly had this dire injury that kept him out of football for the past nine months and I’d imagine that the team handing him millions of dollars would want the chance to see him walk through the door at a weight that is less than 400 lbs. Secondly, you’d want to see him express an ounce of commitment to—if not his employers—then his teammates who went out and battled last year during a lost season while Becton was twitch-streaming runs on GTA5 all night. 

[PepPep]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He is the former 11th overally pick who showed up to camp out of shape and then effectively opted out of playing football last season. If the hope was that he’s show some contrition or maturity, not showing up yesterday likely dashed those hopes. He hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt here, at all.

This is absurd. So he DIDN'T get hut and have surgery and have to rehab and get back into football shape during a lost NFL season where the team sucked and coaches were probably telling him to take his time because a fully competent LT had already stepped in? Did I dream that? I must have. He must have just 'opted out of playing'. THAT must have been the reality of the situation. 

[Alka]

27 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I think you may need to trade becton while he may still have real trade value.  If he’s hurt again this year you’re getting nothing.  Now you may.

I read where the trade value for Becton would probably be a 2nd round pick, and possibly a pick in a future year based upon playing time of Becton in this current year.

If I were a team picking late in the draft, I certainly would consider giving up a 2nd round pick for Becton, and a 3rd or 5th round pick for next year, depending on playing time.  There will not be a tackle of Becton's ability available late in the first round.

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, PepPep said:

This is absurd. So he DIDN'T get hut and have surgery and have to rehab and get back into football shape during a lost NFL season where the team sucked and coaches were probably telling him to take his time because a fully competent LT had already stepped in? Did I dream that? I must have. He must have just 'opted out of playing'. THAT must have been the reality of the situation. 

I think this scenario—where the coaches told him to stay home all year because George Fant had replaced him—is more damning than the one I suggested, where he simply dogged his rehab work.

[peekskill68]

1 hour ago, PepPep said:

"He & McGovern are the only linemen not in attendance, and McGovern (out because his wife had a baby) will be there Monday."

Its interesting to me the way the media portrays this and how some fans go ballistic. I did not realize this myself. Again, because of lack of media coverage, but Becton is ALSO expecting a baby.

Huh, funny how that goes. These are voluntary workouts, nobody says a word about McGovern missing them because he has a child on the way. But Becton, who also has a kid on the way is villainized for it because he was injured and couldn't make it back to the field based on some peoples opinions on how long it should take him to recover and get back into football shape. Last I checked McGovern is also coming off injury. 

Once again I am convinced Jet fans are some of the first ones to turn on their best players. 

We also have to remain open to the possibility that Connor Hughes is the new Manish and is basically a click whore...

[doitny]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Te problem is it’s not a huge improvement to the team like we’d see at edge or wr.

I’ve never been a fan of taking the safest pick with the (presumed) highest floor, irrespective of actual need. That’s a Maccagnan philosophy; the move of a scout who’s concerned more with his own personal hit/miss rate than moves that’d noticeably improve the team if they do hit.

 

this is an excellent point that i never thought of.

JD will be Judged on wins not how many guys he drafts that go to the Pro Bowl. OL dont win games. Skill position players (QB, RB, WR, TE, EDGE, LB, CB) do

[Tranquilo]

17 minutes ago, slats said:

It’s all downside. It’s skipping on a player the team actually needs to instead use a high pick on an area of the team that doesn’t need it. It’s a wasteful net negative that, if it moves the win-loss bar at all, moves it towards more losses. This team needs playmakers on both sides of the ball. If they need an OT, there are still starting caliber players available in free agency. If Icky or Neal is so worthy of the #4 pick, hopefully someone will want to trade up to take him. Really hoping one or both of those guys go before the Jets’ pick. 
 
Edge, WR, CB, S, RB, LB, TE, DT… every other group on the team needs more help than the OL, which was actually pretty good once they figured out what they were doing in this new system. 

I’m not as high on our tackles as you are. We lost Moses. Becton is a question mark right now, and Fant had one good year and also needs an extension. It’s a pretty good OL with the potential to get worse next year. 

RB, LB, TE, S, DT aren’t going to get addressed in the first round.

I rather draft the best OT than the 2nd or 3rd best DE and even the best CB. 

[peekskill68]

28 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

100%. I don’t think we give enough consideration to the idea that Saleh deserves a chance to stock the roster with his guys, and the fact is that he inherited a roster with a large contingent of Gase’s guys. If he thinks Becton is a drag on his program, they should get rid of Becton. 

Do you think they know enough about Becton to make such a huge call?  All they basically have seen is Lawson abusing him in camp and one half of live action.  The rest of the time, Becton's basically been off doing rehab or whatever he's been doing.  To shiv Becton, basically his boss's first ever draft pick, is a big move...

[derp]

26 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Definitely have heard that. Also have heard that his stock is being inflated because teams missed really hard on Spencer Brown, who was (like Penning) a huge, athletic tackle prospect from UNI who kicked a lot of ass for the Bills last year. 

This is why teams suck at drafting. "Well the other UNI tackle worked out let's just do that again." No understanding of randomness and small sample size.

That and the copycat mentality that pushes value of one thing up. Meanwhile Belichick just drafts the good player who falls because he doesn't fit what everyone else is doing around the league and tweaks scheme to fit. And he misses on like 3/4 of the picks but they accumulate so many via trading down that it doesn't matter.

[slats]

1 minute ago, Tranquilo said:

It’s a pretty good OL with the potential to get worse next year. 

So address it next year, this year they have more pressing issues. Another OT would be a cowardly pick. Passing on potentially dynamic playmakers at Edge or WR for yet another “safe” first round OL pick. I will lose a lot of faith in JD is he does that again. I’ll probably lose my lunch, too. 

[Tranquilo]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

So address it next year, this year they have more pressing issues. Another OT would be a cowardly pick. Passing on potentially dynamic playmakers at Edge or WR for yet another “safe” first round OL pick. I will lose a lot of faith in JD is he does that again. I’ll probably lose my lunch, too. 

We’ll get an edge or WR with the other first.