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Pauline- conflicted over Thibo


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11 hours ago, genot said:

The guy had a chance to play for Alabama, but went, instead to Oregon, because of their affliation with Nike. That alone raises red flags. 

I can’t fault a young athlete, newly able to make money while playing college football, for going out and making money. I also think this whole “brand” thing is overblown. Seems like a player who just wants to be the best and be recognized for it. I could see trouble resigning him down the road, but you’re seeing that with plenty of star caliber players now. 

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To me he character concerns about Thibs sound like he is merely a jamal adams type.  He does not sound like a bad dude or criminal or such but he sound like a self promoter.  So if you can out up with jamal like chatter and the fact that after one good year he will be wanting a new contract then you draft him if you think he is good enough.

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1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

I hate to agree with Jamal ... but you really do need dogs. Guys that love to play at any cost. Think Lawrence Taylor, Jerry Rice, Earl Campbell, Tom Brady, Emmit Smith ... guys that exist to play this damn game.

Super hard to determine... I agree.
 

I think Douglas has to make a calculation as to how a player who’s worried about his brand will respond to being 2-6 in November after getting clowned by the Patriots.

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10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It’s just not that simple.  Look at Brick.  Scouts were concerned he had too many interests outside of football, but we took him at 4 anyways.  That seemed to work out.  

At #4, I'd think you'd want more of a sure thing . The on the football field part. No. Coaches feel, if the talents there, they can coach him up. Travon Walker, for example. But any issue, legitimate or not, about a players commitment to football, drops him down. Brick is a good example. It's somewhat of a risk, though.With so many edge rushers available. Do you take that risk??

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4 hours ago, Larz said:

Lol wut?

he’s smart, not lazy. 

I was thinking about KT, taking plays off. Which was a real issue among scouts and college coaches.We all know about Wilk dogging it, half the time.

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I worry about his 3 cone but the off field stuff? He wanted to go to Oregon because he thought if he hurt his neck or something he'd have a better in to a career that didn't involve playing professional football. Kids go to Alabama because they get envelopes of cash from boosters every week. 

 

He seems cocky and probably thinks he's a little smarter than he is but that's a common affliction in 22 year olds.

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1 hour ago, Bowles Movement said:

We drafted a guy at 2 last year that had red flags and concerns.   They were evaluated and deemed not significant vs the upside of getting a franchise QB.  

 
The draft this year has a lot of talent but also some questions with every prospect.   There is no escaping it.   Even Sauce has a reputation for being “grabby” and there are concerns he might get penalized more in the NFL - and he is considered a clean prospect.  
 

Douglas hopefully proves his scouting acumen in this draft.

Those flags and concerns being what? The level of competition he played. His mom's tweets. He seemed physically small until people saw pictures of him with other players. There were rumors that he was a rich kid who didn't care. As you said they were evaluated and deemed not significant. So I would say those don't count, as opposed to drafting a player who is consistently injured (Justin Miller), or has questionable interactions with the law (See below). Sauce being a more hands on DB isn't a red flag. He may get called for it more in the NFL than he had, but BB* literally teaches his DBs that the refs won't call all of them so get good at holding and PI. I guess a red flag for me is something that signifies bust potential, as opposed to a reason someone isn't perfect.

Im Out Baker Mayfield GIF by Progressive

This video of Baker never gets old, and the Jets do need a few linebackers.

 

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1 hour ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Those flags and concerns being what? The level of competition he played. His mom's tweets. He seemed physically small until people saw pictures of him with other players. There were rumors that he was a rich kid who didn't care. As you said they were evaluated and deemed not significant. So I would say those don't count, as opposed to drafting a player who is consistently injured (Justin Miller), or has questionable interactions with the law (See below).

Im Out Baker Mayfield GIF by Progressive

This video of Baker never gets old, and the Jets do need a few linebackers.

 

I think they did count but werent enough to change the evaluation of the prospect.   Just as Thibs has some concerns that may or may not impact how a team views him as a prospect.  If he is there at 4 and the Jets dont take him, they were influenced by his interviews and their impression of how he would fit in with what they are trying to build.  From a straight edge prospect point of view, he should be the pick unless Hutchinson is there.

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4 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

I think there is a difference between character concerns and the desire to be great.

All of the guys you listed had huge character concerns, but they all wanted to be great at football.  From what I understand about KT, his "character" concern isn't that he's running with a bunch of criminals, doing drugs, or likes to party that much.  His "character" concern is a question of whether or not he has the desire and motivation to put in all the hard work that is necessary to become great.

I'm not making a judgement on the guy....I have no idea of knowing, one way or the other...but I think that this is what the huge concern for JD and the FO is.

Good points.  That’s why I also mentioned Brick.  The concern with him was specific to his desire to play the game for a long time.  

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3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

I hate to agree with Jamal ... but you really do need dogs. Guys that love to play at any cost. Think Lawrence Taylor, Jerry Rice, Earl Campbell, Tom Brady, Emmit Smith ... guys that exist to play this damn game.

Super hard to determine... I agree.
 


But Jamal wanted to be compensated like those dogs as if he was one.  

Meanwhile he’s the same dude who hid under a table during a fight at LSU and missed a bunch of games with 2 franchises with relatively soft injuries.  So much for being willing to die on the football field, Jamal!

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1 hour ago, genot said:

At #4, I'd think you'd want more of a sure thing . The on the football field part. No. Coaches feel, if the talents there, they can coach him up. Travon Walker, for example. But any issue, legitimate or not, about a players commitment to football, drops him down. Brick is a good example. It's somewhat of a risk, though.With so many edge rushers available. Do you take that risk??

A sure thing at a premium position, a position which you need to be taking at 4, is hard to find.  

If you want a nice safe guy at 4, you’re already headed down the Maccagnan path. 

Give me the athletic freak EDGE guy at 4, character concerns be damned. 

And if you don’t like any premium position guys at 4, then try like hell to trade down. 

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A sure thing at a premium position, a position which you need to be taking at 4, is hard to find.  

If you want a nice safe guy at 4, you’re already headed down the Maccagnan path. 

Give me the athletic freak EDGE guy at 4, character concerns be damned. 

And if you don’t like any premium position guys at 4, then try like hell to trade down. 

Yes. However, Johnson tested very well at combine. Was productive at FSU, and doesn't appear to carry any red flags. Who would you take?

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3 minutes ago, genot said:

Yes. However, Johnson tested very well at combine. Was productive at FSU, and doesn't appear to carry any red flags. Who would you take?

I’d be happy with Thibs OR Jermaine Johnson at 4.  But I’d go Thibs over JJ if both are available.

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2 hours ago, genot said:

I was thinking about KT, taking plays off. Which was a real issue among scouts and college coaches.We all know about Wilk dogging it, half the time.

Huh?

Your point was he went to Oregon instead of Alabama 

 

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13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I’d be happy with Thibs OR Jermaine Johnson at 4.  But I’d go Thibs over JJ if both are available.

That's cool. That's the draft. It really is to a large extent, a crapshoot.

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15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If this is the case, Douglas should ask Saleh and Ulbrich to point out all of the players with character concerns that were turned around by their magnificent coaching. 

Here's the thing with Thibodeaux.  Nothing I've read about him points to character concerns.  He sounds like a guy whose biggest flaw is not being able to stop talking about himself, which makes me think of Jamal Adams.  Scary?  Yes...buuuut....It's 2022.  If you're going to take every player off of your board who thinks his sh*t don't stink, you're not going to have much left to choose from.

 

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12 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Here's the thing with Thibodeaux.  Nothing I've read about him points to character concerns.  He sounds like a guy whose biggest flaw is not being able to stop talking about himself, which makes me think of Jamal Adams.  Scary?  Yes...buuuut....It's 2022.  If you're going to take every player off of your board who thinks his sh*t don't stink, you're not going to have much left to choose from.

 

In a vacuum, sure, you take him based on the talent alone, but for these Jets—who are probably two years away from sniffing the playoffs—I think bringing a me-first kinda guy in here to lose games is a recipe for disaster. 

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Remember when John Abraham decided not to play in a playoff game for us, even though he was healthy enough to participate. How did you feel? That's exactly what KT did last year before the Alamo bowl. It's not what KT can do for his team and teammates. It's what football can do for KT. Not saying it's a hard cold fact. It has to be considered though. No?

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25 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

In a vacuum, sure, you take him based on the talent alone, but for these Jets—who are probably two years away from sniffing the playoffs—I think bringing a me-first kinda guy in here to lose games is a recipe for disaster. 

I see what you mean, but my point is that most of these guys are "me first" guys.  The alarming thing about Thibodeaux is that he didn't even have enough sense in the interviews to pretend winning was higher on his list.  Is he brutally honest, which is admirable?  Or is he a dummy?  

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37 minutes ago, genot said:

Remember when John Abraham decided not to play in a playoff game for us, even though he was healthy enough to participate. How did you feel? That's exactly what KT did last year before the Alamo bowl. It's not what KT can do for his team and teammates. It's what football can do for KT. Not saying it's a hard cold fact. It has to be considered though. No?

Jaylen Smith is why KT and so many other prospects sit out meaningless bowl games. Its common thing for guys to do . Look at jameson Williams. But it was the playoffs he should of played..

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1 minute ago, Scoop24 said:

Jaylen Smith is why KT and so many other prospects sit out meaningless bowl games. Its common thing for guys to do . Look at jameson Williams. But it was the playoffs he should of played..

Who says Abraham was healthy enough?  Fans assumed he was because he was jumping up and down after the game.  Are we to assume that jumping up in the air means you can push up against a 300lb offensive lineman who is trying to twist you in to a pretzel?

And again, if we start taking every guy off the draft board who sits out his final college game, that's going to be a large and growing list.

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3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Let's not ignore the fact that Pauline's batting average is about .0000023 with his "insider" info.

Hasnt hit since mac got fired. Atleast on nothing i can remember 

 

Jets trying to trade their second-round pick?

(6:30 PM) If the Jets don’t trade their pick at the top of Round 2. I’m told they are still leaning towards Azeez Ojulari.

 

What positions are the Jets targeting early on Day 2?

(11:25 AM) The Jets have a big decision to make at the top of Round 2 — running back or defense. I’m told right now they seem to be leaning towards Ojulari, whom they did not expect to be on the board. Ojulari will help improve the pass rush and is the hybrid type of defender Robert Saleh likes. He’s a big-time prospect, but as I stated yesterday, medical red flags at the NFL Combine really hurt his draft stock.

 

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13 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

Hasnt hit since mac got fired. Atleast on nothing i can remember 

 

Jets trying to trade their second-round pick?

(6:30 PM) If the Jets don’t trade their pick at the top of Round 2. I’m told they are still leaning towards Azeez Ojulari.

 

What positions are the Jets targeting early on Day 2?

(11:25 AM) The Jets have a big decision to make at the top of Round 2 — running back or defense. I’m told right now they seem to be leaning towards Ojulari, whom they did not expect to be on the board. Ojulari will help improve the pass rush and is the hybrid type of defender Robert Saleh likes. He’s a big-time prospect, but as I stated yesterday, medical red flags at the NFL Combine really hurt his draft stock.

 

It's the worst thing about twitter.  There are a billion "hot takes" and "insiders" who just make up a boatload of sh*t.   If they hit on 1 out of every 1,000 they'll constantly remind you.  When they miss, nobody notices and it just goes away.

I can see the allure of claiming to have inside sources because I've seen people build huge followings in a hurry by making stuff up.  Just feels dirty though so I take the "make incorrect predictions and get laughed at" route.

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is my cue to release my annual seven round mock draft later tonight. 

Let's coordinate so I can pick a time slot for my "much too early" 2023 7-rounder.

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1 hour ago, Scoop24 said:

Hasnt hit since mac got fired. Atleast on nothing i can remember 

 

Jets trying to trade their second-round pick?

(6:30 PM) If the Jets don’t trade their pick at the top of Round 2. I’m told they are still leaning towards Azeez Ojulari.

 

What positions are the Jets targeting early on Day 2?

(11:25 AM) The Jets have a big decision to make at the top of Round 2 — running back or defense. I’m told right now they seem to be leaning towards Ojulari, whom they did not expect to be on the board. Ojulari will help improve the pass rush and is the hybrid type of defender Robert Saleh likes. He’s a big-time prospect, but as I stated yesterday, medical red flags at the NFL Combine really hurt his draft stock.

 

Fwiw, Azeez Ojulari would have been the best player on our team last season.

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