Peter King mocks Sauce and J Williams to Jets

[Greensleeves]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I get it, but there are no more lockdown corners.  They're just not allowed to play their position anymore. I just think a guy like Gardner moves the needle far less than any one of the edges that will be there.

Pass Rushers are still allowed to do their job.

Not to worry Fidelio, JD gets this.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

2 hours ago, Larz said:

Nightmare draft for me. 

Slam dunk draft for me.

[More Cowbell]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

It is not really cbs and jets fans, it is the players in this draft and the jets.  This draft stinks at the top end unfortunately for the jets.  Almost all guys at the top have question marks or are projections, except Gardner.  I'm not saying he is sure fire awesome material but he is about the cleanest player at he top end.

Thank you. Not so much for the vote of confidence  on Sauce but more so about how bad this first round is, especially compared to the last 3 or 4 years.  People making a big deal about getting this WR, or that pass rusher. Most of these players would be back end first rounders last season or out of the first round all together. 

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Hamilton's production is amazing.  Take productive players.  Again, IMO, Hamilton would make a larger impact on the Jets than Gardner would.

And I don't think it's really close.

JT Woods production is amazing as well, he is faster than hamilton by a LOT and is a projected 3-4 rounder.

Anyone that dismisses the issue of a safety who runs between 4.6 and 4.7 is just asking for trouble.

And if you have to 'jamal' him as in totally change your defense so the guy can free lance his rump off that is another issue.

This is one of about 3 players that if the Jets picked I would be totally enraged.

[PepPep]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

So the Bills and Chiefs Score only 5 TDs instead of 6. Oh, my! Very scary indeed. Keep fighting the last war. 

Thats literally how they lost in the playoffs and how the Bengals lost in the SB. Not being able to score that '6th' TD. 

I'm not fighting any war. I'd be more than happy to take an Edge at 4 and/or load up on offense in this draft. I'm just saying Gardner is a great prospect and I would love to have him on this team. After watching the playoffs and the SB the past couple of years it would be completely insane to think defense doesn't matter. I'm a big believer that you absolutely don't reach at 4. If the top edge rushers are gone, don't take a WR who will probably be there at 10 and is further down your board. Don't take the 3rd best edge who may be further down your board. Maybe consider taking the best CB or the best O-lineman? Thats all I'm saying. Its not all or nothing. There are great WRs and Edge rushers who will be available at 10 and in Rd. 2. JD will have potential trade up scenarios. Its not cut and dry for how you put together a good offense and defense. 

[kdels62]

The Bills lost Tre’Davious White. They beat KC if they have him.

[Larz]

1 hour ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Slam dunk draft for me.

Cool. This defense values pass rush and safeties over corners and Williams is a 180 lb speed guy coming off a torn ACL that can’t beat press coverage 

[jamesr]

Well yes.  I agree.  But when you look at the trade NO made with Philly - there is truly no logical way to see that trade unless their plan was to trade up for a QB.  Otherwise it made no sense.
QB's are moving up boards - and if they have one they like - then you go get him.   Honestly, I think if the Jets want to trade out of 4 for #16 and #19 - it'll be there to do.

NO need to get (a) younger and ( cheaper. This draft is also regarded as being a good draft in the 10-50 range where you should get two immediate starters. It makes sense from that perspective.

And NO have shown before that they'll trade future picks for talent this year - even if the picks themselves are somewhat suspect.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[jamesr]

They like the illusion somehow a defense is going to stop a superior passing attack as opposed to outscore it. Have had legion examples that you need to score points in bunches, Jets fans pretend they can buck the industry trend despite sucking forever doing so. 

It's easier to outscore a team if you can also keep their scoring down a bit. I've not seen anyone here saying that we will win by having a shutdown defense - but we're also not likely to start scoring 30+ points a game anytime soon.

We need to improve on both offense and defense at the same time; neither unit is anywhere near league average yet.

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[Jetpain]

4 hours ago, jbt said:

we can't take a WR who wont play until later in the year.  this team needs to show something early on or Joe D is gone

and I love Sauce but we need an edge, that will help the defense more

 

Not sure why you would think JD could be gone.  I actually think the team will be significantly better this year but the record may not reflect it due to stronger teams they are facing and a young QB hopefully developing.  I think the worst thing this franchise could do is get rid of JD and start over yet again by bringing in a new GM, new coaches and new philosophies who will then require they get "their" kind of players.  We start the same process over every few years and wonder why its not working.  While JD does need to hit on players in this and every draft, JD and the Jets are going as far as Zack takes them.  All the draft hits in the world arent going to matter if the kids busts.  

[FidelioJet]

10 minutes ago, jamesr said:

NO need to get (a) younger and ( cheaper. This draft is also regarded as being a good draft in the 10-50 range where you should get two immediate starters. It makes sense from that perspective.

And NO have shown before that they'll trade future picks for talent this year - even if the picks themselves are somewhat suspect.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
 

While what you're saying is true.... NO needs a QB and that's likely at the top of their priority list.

Of course there are multiple ways they can go - but it's my guess - if their QB1 is there at 4...and the Jets offered them #4 for #16 and #19 - the Saints pull the trigger.  

For whatever it's worth, the value chart is pretty much exact #4 (1,800)  = #16 (1,000) and #19 (875)

I'm not saying the Jets should or shouldn't do it, just that it's my guess it'll be there if they want it.

[Jetpain]

3 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Which seems absurd. 

I don't see the Jets passing on edge twice at 4 and 10. 

This draft is top heavy at edge and it's either the biggest or second biggest need on the team. 

Agree with you, however, i would probably lean WR at 4, as i think there is more likelihood of someone trading up for the 10th pick.   I think you can still get an edge lower in the first round as compared to the run on WR's that will probably take place before the Jets pick in round 2, or if they have traded down to the bottom of round 1 with green bay or KC. 

[Bugg]

43 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Thats literally how they lost in the playoffs and how the Bengals lost in the SB. Not being able to score that '6th' TD. 

I'm not fighting any war. I'd be more than happy to take an Edge at 4 and/or load up on offense in this draft. I'm just saying Gardner is a great prospect and I would love to have him on this team. After watching the playoffs and the SB the past couple of years it would be completely insane to think defense doesn't matter. I'm a big believer that you absolutely don't reach at 4. If the top edge rushers are gone, don't take a WR who will probably be there at 10 and is further down your board. Don't take the 3rd best edge who may be further down your board. Maybe consider taking the best CB or the best O-lineman? Thats all I'm saying. Its not all or nothing. There are great WRs and Edge rushers who will be available at 10 and in Rd. 2. JD will have potential trade up scenarios. Its not cut and dry for how you put together a good offense and defense. 

Not that the teams traded TDs and their DBs were completely worthless, right. 

[Jethead]

If the first 3 picks are Hutch, Thibs, Walker I take WR1. If one of the 3 Edge guys drops I take him and best available WR at 10.

[Cyberjet]

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I get it, but there are no more lockdown corners.  They're just not allowed to play their position anymore. I just think a guy like Gardner moves the needle far less than any one of the edges that will be there.

Pass Rushers are still allowed to do their job.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. The amount of holding by OL that is being tolerated by the refs particularly in the playoffs is getting ridiculous. 
 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

Who does Joe Douglas mock to the Jets?

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Then take Hamilton - who at least plays a position this defense values.

I'm no draft expert, and agree there's a bit of an over-obsession with some 40 times, but isn't he the DB with DE speed?

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm no draft expert, and agree there's a bit of an over-obsession with some 40 times, but isn't he the DB with DE speed?

I'm not advocating taking Hamilton - but if it's really between him or a CB, I take him.  Just more valuable in this defense.

His production is impressive and  just like we don't like to draft work out warriors with little production - we shouldn't do the opposite.

IMO, Hamilton will move the needle for this team more than Gardner would.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm not advocating taking Hamilton - but if it's really between him or a CB, I take him.  Just more valuable in this defense.

His production is impressive and  just like we don't like to draft work out warriors with little production - we shouldn't do the opposite.

IMO, Hamilton will move the needle for this team more than Gardner would.

Lots of college players were productive against college level talent.

The problem with Hamilton is, because he's a safety, anything less than being a perennial probowler makes him a terrible pick that early. Meanwhile at corner, merely good ones are still paid big.

Also DJ Reed can play safety, too. Saleh played him at safety for about half his snaps as a rookie, and was lined up as a box safety about 10% of the time last year for Seattle.

If Hamilton is really that slow (4.6 to 4.8 speed as an NFL DB) I'd sooner move Reed - or Hall - to safety and start Sauce than leave Reed at corner and draft Hamilton. 

[varjet]

JD has three choices with the 4 Pick:

• Trade down.
• Trade it for Deebo (would rather that than 35 and 38)
• Use it for an elite athlete.  

The draft pick will cost $8mm.  That is actually a good down payment for Deebo.  

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lots of college players were productive against college level talent.

The problem with Hamilton is, because he's a safety, anything less than being a perennial probowler makes him a terrible pick that early. Meanwhile at corner, merely good ones are still paid big.

Also DJ Reed can play safety, too. Saleh played him at safety for about half his snaps as a rookie, and was lined up as a box safety about 10% of the time last year for Seattle.

If Hamilton is really that slow (4.6 to 4.8 speed as an NFL DB) I'd sooner move Reed - or Hall - to safety and start Sauce than leave Reed at corner and draft Hamilton. 

I am, by no means, an expert on Hamilton, but by most accounts he's going to be a top 15 pick.   Just discounting him because he ran a 4.6 40 seems unfair.

I want nothing to do with a CB. 

[K_O_Brien]

5 minutes ago, varjet said:

JD has three choices with the 4 Pick:

• Trade down.
• Trade it for Deebo (would rather that than 35 and 38)
• Use it for an elite athlete.  

The draft pick will cost $8mm.  That is actually a good down payment for Deebo.  

Douglas would be the laughing stock of the League if he gave up 4 for Deebo. That's the equivalent of an extra late first rounder more than Hill/Adams went for. Even 10 is an overpay. 

[Integrity28]

12 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't understand

 

 

Full stop.

[bla bla bla]

If they think they like a few 2nd round Edge Rushers then this would be my idea first 2 picks. I just don't know if I like coming out of the top 10 without an Edge.

[Bugg]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I am, by no means, an expert on Hamilton, but by most accounts he's going to be a top 15 pick.   Just discounting him because he ran a 4.6 40 seems unfair.

I want nothing to do with a CB. 

A safety that early as the rules are currently enforced is insane. Unless you like staring down the barrell of again asking yourself whether to give such a guy max money on his 2nd contract. And there's even chatter Hamilton will shift to LB. Shutdown corners are unicorns but at least if you think Gardner is that good, you might very happily write that big dollar 2nd contract, as you would with an edge. 

But keeps coming back to this team's offense has to start being dangerous rather futile.  Cannot keep fielding an offense with no real threats. 

[slimjasi]

50 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

If they think they like a few 2nd round Edge Rushers then this would be my idea first 2 picks. I just don't know if I like coming out of the top 10 without an Edge.

Coming out of the top 10 without an edge in this draft feels like a huge mistake to me. 
 

the jets need a legit edge prospect just about more than anything else and this draft has 5 guys at the top. Take one

[Maxman]

14 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't understand the fascination with CB's and Jet fans.

 

 

It is a passing league. If there isn't a WR there worth taking at that spot you better stop the other guy.

[Dunnie]

I dont like to hate anyone .... but peter king sure makes it difficult.

[Dunnie]

Probably my ideal first round.

Unless Sauce is Revis or Sanders or Woodson ... this would be a colossal fail ...

[32EBoozer]

19 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

I agree 100%. I would put Neal a close 2nd (to Sauce) as far as "cleanest" players.

See the Walter Football thread. 

[Irish Jet]

20 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't understand the fascination with CB's and Jet fans.

Do you remember the last time we were good?

[FidelioJet]

6 hours ago, Maxman said:

It is a passing league. If there isn't a WR there worth taking at that spot you better stop the other guy.

You stop the other guy with a good pash rush, not corners any more.

Specifically in this defense.  If Joe takes a CB at 4 I would be losing real faith in Douglas as a team builder.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

Do you remember the last time we were good?

Two things:

1) Rex's defense was heavily reliant on strong CB play.  Saleh's is not

2) It was a different game then.  It's exceptionally hard to play elite corner at this point.

If Rex was running our defense - and while I still wouldn't like it - I would be far more comfortable taking a corner at 4 - taking one with Saleh's D would pretty much have me off the Joe Douglas bandwagon.

[CTJetsFan]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

See the Walter Football thread. 

Wow. That would suck if true.

[Maxman]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

You stop the other guy with a good pash rush, not corners any more.

Specifically in this defense.  If Joe takes a CB at 4 I would be losing real faith in Douglas as a team builder.

And if Joe skips a bust Edge pick at 4, and grabs a starter in Round two, the Jets win a Super Bowl over the next few years.