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The Official "MY CRITICISM WAS WRONG ABOUT JOE D" Thread and other short stories.


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40 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

I think it is.  Again, IMO, the Jets win three or four games and JD's gone.  

I admit, I was totally discarding the idea of fewer wins than last season.  The roster is much better and Wilson has a year of learning under his belt

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40 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I just want to address this because I see it a lot.

Going by a blend of available measurements when combine wasn't available (Moore):

  • Elijah Moore:  5' 9.5" 180 lb.
  • Garrett Wilson: 5' 11.75" 183 lb.

and for some comparison:

  • OBJ: 5' 11.25" 198 lb.
  • Stefon Diggs: 6' 0" 195 lb.

So what I take away is that Wilson is light and could stand to add 10-15 lbs. of good weight.  But he is not short unless you consider OBJ and Diggs short.  Shorter than Megatron?  Yes.  But too short to be a WR1?  Probably not.

I was definitely intrigued by London, largely due to his size, but I wasn’t unhappy to see him go at #8. I like the speed Wilson brings and, like you say, he’s plenty big enough to be a potential #1 type. JD brought size in already with the two TEs, and I’m hoping he drafts another late tonight or tomorrow. 

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1 hour ago, freestater said:

I reserve my judgement until we get through an entire season without Zach Wilson curled up on the turf writhing in pain, while Connor McDermott looks on helplessly and Mekhi Becton is eating his fourteenth Reeces peanut butter cup on the sideline. 

I do hope we pick up 1, if not 2 more OL in this draft. 

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2 minutes ago, slats said:

I was definitely intrigued by London, largely due to his size, but I wasn’t unhappy to see him go at #8. I like the speed Wilson brings and, like you say, he’s plenty big enough to be a potential #1 type. JD brought size in already with the two TEs, and I’m hoping he drafts another late tonight or tomorrow. 

I struggled with exactly this.  I really liked London as a prospect, despite the fact that some on this board were ready to throw themselves out of a basement window if we drafted him.  When ATL picked him, I was disappointed but figured we'd just grab JJ (and oh how that worked out).

Looking over the national reaction to all the picks, there was a lot more of a split over London than I recall seeing over a prospect like that.  Some loved him as the top WR, other's really did not like him at all.  On the other hand, almost everyone had Wilson as either WR1 or WR2 in this draft so after a few deep breaths, I'm excited. I mentioned somewhere else that Wilson is the same height as guys like Diggs, OBJ and plenty of other true WR1s.  

I actually hope London does well, because I really love that type of player who bullies DBs and goes up to grab the ball in traffic.  Kind of what I wanted to see from Mims but oh well.

Yeah, one more big bodied WR on Day 3 wouldn't be awful but at this point, we are talented four-deep (when healthy) plus the two TEs so I think we can put enough on the field to make some noise.  To me, Crowder really was so similar to Berrios that we don't lose that much by him leaving.  Wilson should be a substantial upgrade and make everyone else a bit better.  Fingers crossed.

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1 minute ago, Tooooon said:

Find me a GM who has never made a bad pick. 

Why would I do that?

Point is the silly artificial stop-point of "35th", not that Mims was a bad pick.

Everybody makes bad picks.  No need to try and hide them with silly stopping points in the middle of draft rounds, lol.

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7 minutes ago, Tooooon said:

It’s not artificial.  He’s talking about past 2 drafts.  Lol. 

So artificially ignoring his first draft, just as silly.

There is no need to cherry pick to show that JD drafting has, on paper, been very solid to-date.

The cherry picking makes the cherry picker look both less confident and dishonest.

Becton and Mims should be on the list.  JD picked them too. 

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3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

I had been supporting Joe D staunchly until the Sauce pick ... at which time I lost my sh*t.   

Now after waking up to the gift that was JJ, I am back on board the Joe D train. This guy might be the best GM we have ever had.

Anyone else ?

My suggestion is you be more of a grown man and not ‘lose your sh*t’ over things you can’t control and/or that are completely inconsequential to your health and life.

🤪

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1 hour ago, nycdan said:

I just want to address this because I see it a lot.

Going by a blend of available measurements when combine wasn't available (Moore):

  • Elijah Moore:  5' 9.5" 180 lb.
  • Garrett Wilson: 5' 11.75" 183 lb.

and for some comparison:

  • OBJ: 5' 11.25" 198 lb.
  • Stefon Diggs: 6' 0" 195 lb.

So what I take away is that Wilson is light and could stand to add 10-15 lbs. of good weight.  But he is not short unless you consider OBJ and Diggs short.  Shorter than Megatron?  Yes.  But too short to be a WR1?  Probably not.

It's  really not about hight as far as saying he is like Moore. He is thebsame type of WR. I would like tonhave a possession type and a burner. We have 2 burners. 

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Wilson getting jump balls is considered one of his strengths.  He has a catch range similar to London while being shorter, he has had a career of winning battles for the ball, is a physical WR.  Unlike Moore.  Jump balls shouldn’t be an issue.  

Yeah,  he catches jump balls against DB who are working in a bank now. The DB's he is going to face now are not what he faces in college. This is not to say he won't  get any 50/50 balls but DB's in the NFL have pretty good technique  to knock those balls away. Small WR are not considered possession  types in the NFL for a reason

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23 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

It's  really not about hight as far as saying he is like Moore. He is thebsame type of WR. I would like tonhave a possession type and a burner. We have 2 burners. 

Davis and Mims are each 6’3”, and they added two TEs in free agency. They have some size, can’t ever have enough speed. 

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1 hour ago, nycdan said:

I struggled with exactly this.  I really liked London as a prospect, despite the fact that some on this board were ready to throw themselves out of a basement window if we drafted him.  When ATL picked him, I was disappointed but figured we'd just grab JJ (and oh how that worked out).

Looking over the national reaction to all the picks, there was a lot more of a split over London than I recall seeing over a prospect like that.  Some loved him as the top WR, other's really did not like him at all.  On the other hand, almost everyone had Wilson as either WR1 or WR2 in this draft so after a few deep breaths, I'm excited. I mentioned somewhere else that Wilson is the same height as guys like Diggs, OBJ and plenty of other true WR1s.  

I actually hope London does well, because I really love that type of player who bullies DBs and goes up to grab the ball in traffic.  Kind of what I wanted to see from Mims but oh well.

Yeah, one more big bodied WR on Day 3 wouldn't be awful but at this point, we are talented four-deep (when healthy) plus the two TEs so I think we can put enough on the field to make some noise.  To me, Crowder really was so similar to Berrios that we don't lose that much by him leaving.  Wilson should be a substantial upgrade and make everyone else a bit better.  Fingers crossed.

I wanted London too ... better complement to Moore i thought ... Someone that knows better than me .... please contrast Moore to Wilson.

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17 minutes ago, slats said:

Davis and Mims are each 6’3”, and they added two TEs in free agency. They have some size, can’t ever have enough speed. 

Well I don't think either Davis or Mims are long term fixtures on this team. Uzmoh and Conklin <sp> might work out as a redzone target, Not so high on the prospect of them being here long term either. I wouldn't be surprised if we take a TE today.

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20 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I wanted London too ... better complement to Moore i thought ... Someone that knows better than me .... please contrast Moore to Wilson.

Where did this myth that you need different styles of WR come from? This is only a problem for positions where there is only one of that particular position on the field at any given time. 

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7 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Well I don't think either Davis or Mims are long term fixtures on this team. Uzmoh and Conklin <sp> might work out as a redzone target, Not so high on the prospect of them being here long term either. I wouldn't be surprised if we take a TE today.

Not with that second rounder, I don’t think. But I’m really hoping they grab one, too. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

So artificially ignoring his first draft, just as silly.

There is no need to cherry pick to show that JD drafting has, on paper, been very solid to-date.

The cherry picking makes the cherry picker look both less confident and dishonest.

Becton and Mims should be on the list.  JD picked them too. 

The writer was simply talking about the last 2 drafts.   I am sorry that does not fit your narrative that JD is an idiot.  

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31 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Where did this myth that you need different styles of WR come from? This is only a problem for positions where there is only one of that particular position on the field at any given time. 

I think it's helpful to have guys that can stretch the field and others that are strong going over the middle - etc..

But I think with Moore and Wilson you have two very versatile WR's that can do a lot of things - and can hurt you in a lot of ways.

 

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3 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I’ve been pro Joe since day one.

No GM is perfect, but he’s the best we’ve had in a very long time.  
 


Everyone is jazzed now, but I’m sure if Sauce pulls a hammy in camp the pitch forks will be out. 

100%, just like they are about Becton. People forget that he was great as a rookie and then gets hurt and it's all JD's fault for picking him. 

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Yeah,  he catches jump balls against DB who are working in a bank now. The DB's he is going to face now are not what he faces in college. This is not to say he won't  get any 50/50 balls but DB's in the NFL have pretty good technique  to knock those balls away. Small WR are not considered possession  types in the NFL for a reason

That's just not fair. He was a multi year starter for a team that played in the CFP or serious bowl games and had a competitive schedule - to the extent you can compare the competitiveness of the defenses any receiver faced coming out of school, he has a perfectly appropriate data set to look at. His jump ball catch against Clemson in the CFP when he was a freshman is ridiculous. You can be concerned about his height - but Wilson's leaping ability and body control when in the air is a differentiator for him. The archtype Louis Riddick put up for him yesterday was literally Lynn Swann - because of how he plays above the rim for his size.

Another recent analog, Jamarr Chase is 6 foot even measured at the combine too. Certainly heavier, but not that much taller that the height should be a concern. 

I was a big proponent of London, and was sad to see him go to Atl, but I am delighted we snagged Wilson. Hearing more about him after the draft on his intelligence and study of the game being real strengths, I think its an excellent fit with what Lafleur and Saleh want. 

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4 hours ago, slats said:

The Jets drafted three impact starters last night. Many people would’ve been content with JJ at #4 and JD got him at #26. Sauce is a mild surprise, but you know the coaching staff is down with the pick. That actually makes me feel better about them. Coaches who can’t adjust their systems to fit a star player aren’t worth ****. Has Vegas moved the over/under on the Jets yet? 

The over under in Vegas is all about the QB they obviously have no faith in Zach and I hope to God he sticks it right in their faces.

Bet Clevelands over under moved after the Watson trade

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29 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

That's just not fair. He was a multi year starter for a team that played in the CFP or serious bowl games and had a competitive schedule - to the extent you can compare the competitiveness of the defenses any receiver faced coming out of school, he has a perfectly appropriate data set to look at. His jump ball catch against Clemson in the CFP when he was a freshman is ridiculous. You can be concerned about his height - but Wilson's leaping ability and body control when in the air is a differentiator for him. The archtype Louis Riddick put up for him yesterday was literally Lynn Swann - because of how he plays above the rim for his size.

Another recent analog, Jamarr Chase is 6 foot even measured at the combine too. Certainly heavier, but not that much taller that the height should be a concern. 

I was a big proponent of London, and was sad to see him go to Atl, but I am delighted we snagged Wilson. Hearing more about him after the draft on his intelligence and study of the game being real strengths, I think its an excellent fit with what Lafleur and Saleh want. 

I don't  think I am being unfair in saying he is small and he is going to find it difficult playing against the top DB in the world. It is a fact. High pointing the ball may have been all he needed to do in college but DB in the NFL practice not letting you maintain possession  through the catch. If you don't have a big body to shield them off, it is much harder to complete a catch. I'm not saying he will not make any, but he isn't Larry Fitzgerald.

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I like the Sauce pick, I'm luke warm on Wilson only because of his height (seems similar to Moore). And I really wanted Thib but JJ is a nice consolation prize. 


Some of the best receivers in the NFL are between 5’ 10” and 6’ 0” gone are the days of Calvin Johnson and Randy Moss. Smaller shiftier receivers that can get open are now preferred. Even if we got Deebo he is only 6’0”…Ja’Marr Chase 6’0”
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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Yeah,  he catches jump balls against DB who are working in a bank now. The DB's he is going to face now are not what he faces in college. This is not to say he won't  get any 50/50 balls but DB's in the NFL have pretty good technique  to knock those balls away. Small WR are not considered possession  types in the NFL for a reason

You mean he had success at Ohio St against scrubs?  Different defensive players than taller WRs who played weaker competition?  

Again, there are plenty of 6 ft WRs in the NFL.  Odd take that he’s too small to catch passes

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3 minutes ago, tfine said:

 


Some of the best receivers in the NFL are between 5’ 10” and 6’ 0” gone are the days of Calvin Johnson and Randy Moss. Smaller shiftier receivers that can get open are now preferred. Even if we got Deebo he is only 6’0”…Ja’Marr Chase 6’0”

 

This is theblast time I am explaining this. He is the same type of WR as Moore. He isn't a big possession guy. 

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3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't  think I am being unfair in saying he is small and he is going to find it difficult playing against the top DB in the world. It is a fact. High pointing the ball may have been all he needed to do in college but DB in the NFL practice not letting you maintain possession  through the catch. If you don't have a big body to shield them off, it is much harder to complete a catch. I'm not saying he will not make any, but he isn't Larry Fitzgerald.

You’re being totally unfair and not making sense.  The NFL WRs who are successful tells you you’re wrong

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We'll see. I'm actually not 100 on any of our 1st round picks, and the fact that he's got a top 8 grade on JJ while a lot of other teams didnt even rate him in the 1st round is worrying.

I think it's more likely that at least one of them busts rather than all three busting, but I'll wait and see and give him the benefit of the doubt.

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21 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't  think I am being unfair in saying he is small and he is going to find it difficult playing against the top DB in the world. It is a fact. High pointing the ball may have been all he needed to do in college but DB in the NFL practice not letting you maintain possession  through the catch. If you don't have a big body to shield them off, it is much harder to complete a catch. I'm not saying he will not make any, but he isn't Larry Fitzgerald.

Based on a strong competitive set of defenders based on OSUs strength of schedule, Wilson had an excellent contested catch success rate (I believe over 60%), which would translate to being able to body well at the next level based on how people of his frame have done on those kpis in the past. This is exactly the argument that Riddick was making last night with the Swann comparator - that Wilson's skills project an ability to both separate and play with the physicality to win on contested catches at next level. I believe that the phrase 'he plays like he is London's size' was thrown out - that may be hyperbole, but I don't think they would say the same about Moore. 

These things are of course opinions based on projections, but I dont think its fair to make the assessment that it is fact he will struggle with this aspect. 

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13 minutes ago, talisaynon said:

We'll see. I'm actually not 100 on any of our 1st round picks, and the fact that he's got a top 8 grade on JJ while a lot of other teams didnt even rate him in the 1st round is worrying.

I think it's more likely that at least one of them busts rather than all three busting, but I'll wait and see and give him the benefit of the doubt.

JJ was a JUCO kid who couldn't get on the field due to grades at one point and because of the process he took to get to NFL is older than a lot of the comparative set. Its his age that I've seen most frequently levied as a criticism in run up to the draft. 

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