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Let's See If We Can Remember Who Praised JD


THE BARON
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Thoughts on the GM and Coaching staff don't need to be this binary.

You can like what JD has done overall but still be critical of certain moves. You can not like what the CS has done while still praise certain aspects.

On a side note, the team was in rebuild. They've added a ton of pieces this offseason. I was thinking we'd get anywhere from 5-8 wins next season before FA started (especially if they were thinking OL @ 4). Feel that with the first round, maybe we're looking at a winning season?

Either way, overall, for a GM in his third year, I think overall I'm happy with where the roster is at (still improvements to be made, but more has been added that in previous regimes). Curious to see what our 2nd year HC can do with the influx of talent.

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I am a JD fan, because I can see there is a process and because I think for the first time in a long time the GM and the coach are on the same page. Watching JD's tenure so far, you can see that results can deviate from process and can go sideways, but a good process does not waver substantially and eventually usually succeeds.  That's what defines the better organizations in the league.  Look at Bellichick for example.  He whiffs on a ton of picks, but there is a process there and while it is tempting to say it was all Brady, the reality is that their teams are consistently more complete than people give them credit for.  They will get killed for the Strange pick yesterday, but I was listening to a Dante Scarnecchia interview last week where he talked about how they scouted o-line in New England based on traits and characteristics.  Strange may or may not work out, but the Pats have done this before and turned some of these picks into all-pro guards.  They throw darts the same way, eventually they hit.

Now a couple of more things I've learned watching JD that makes me think he is a keeper, regardless of outcome:

1) He doesn't get fleeced.  He is not an emotional decision-maker... he is confident of his approach.  I think we will see this after some of these rooks reach their second contract.  The goal here is to develop sufficient depth that not all guys will be resigned, but that we create the farm system that has the better teams getting comp picks every year and restocking because they can let guys go and still be good.

2) You can't underestimate the value of continuity and alignment between a coach and GM.  The 2020 draft and its failures are proof central of this.  Bechton was not drafted for wide-zone system, and is trying to find where he fits.  His talent is good enough that they can figure this out, so long as injuries and attitude don't interfere.  Mims was for a vertical passing attack; he is not a route runner that LaFleur craves.  What you got was Gase personnel when the coach was on his way out.  Now year 2 with Saleh, you can feel the value of the systems approach starting to take hold.  

3) I have no idea whether we will look back on this draft like the 2000 draft, which too was transformational, but I feel confident that the approach was solid.  Injuries and off the field stuff can kill even the best-looking draft.  But I am fairly confident this is already among the best 3 drafts I've witnessed as a 40 year plus Jets fan.  And depending on outcome of the players could vault to the top.  Those two drafts are the 2000 draft (Abe, Ellis, Pennington, Becht, and Coles) and the Revis/Harris draft (we didn't have a ton of picks there but that was quality over quantity.  And maybe the Brick/Mangold draft as well.  

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24 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

I think Salleh will get better with time.  He wants to be a complete HC rather than just a guy that runs the offense or defense. He had a lot on his plate for a first year coach.  He looked very much to be a smart, stable guy through it all.  

I'm not too sure about Wilson, though.  That is the big mystery for me.  With the new WR, two new TE's and another year under his belt, Wilson needs to show progress.  By game three we need to see clearly that he can play the position.  He does not have to be a star, but he's got to be solid.  If you dont see it by game three, we probably never will. 

Im optimistic on Saleh, I think he for sure had alot on his plate. The odds of him blossoming into a good HC are good, especially with a roster that is filling out with legit talent.

I also feel good about ZW polishing up his game this year, and more than just a little bit. I agree he doesnt have to be a star this season, just move the chains smartly. Hes got the tools

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39 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

We've won 6 games the past two seasons.  Y'all are hilarious.

5 straight years of horrid drafts and terrible signings prior to his arrival had a lot to do with that.  

Overpaying to chase 8 wins is not a strategy anyone should be advocating, but that’s the implication whenever people  bring up Douglas’ W-L record in a vacuum as if it means something.

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31 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

What is the alternative if JD fails?  Putting the search back into the brainless-clueless Johnsons again?  Oh Gods 'O Canton...don't be that cruel and keep punishing us tortured Jets fans with that again!

JD...in comparison to what Jets had as the visionary GMs the previous decade...was a breath of fresh air.  If...JD looks like a duck...waddles like a duck...quacks like one too...then for me he's a legit GM for sure.  

Agreed.  Like it or not, Douglas is the best caliber of GM this franchise is gonna have under the Johnson’s.  Loudly demand his firing at your own risk.  

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34 minutes ago, slats said:

@T0mShane has a way of amplifying his agenda du jour. This place also puts way too much emphasis on the OL. There are good OTs still available in free agency if they want some depth, but I didn’t think Joe Douglas was gonna be in a rush to dump his first ever draft pick. The players he took all move the needle much further than swapping Becton for Ekwonu. 

I’ll bet you a shiny nickel Mekhi Becton doesn’t make one start for the 2022 New York Jets.

AA94C50C-E174-425A-B225-B59A489ECE21.png

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7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The rubes are the ones who showed up to camp while Becton is home freebasing Popeye’s spicy chicken sandwiches. Two pesos.

Alright, but if you win, you have to come down here to collect. 

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26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

5 straight years of horrid drafts and terrible signings prior to his arrival had a lot to do with that.  

Overpaying to chase 8 wins is not a strategy anyone should be advocating, but that’s the implication whenever people  bring up Douglas’ W-L record in a vacuum as if it means something.

Point is simply let's win some god damn games before we anoint literally anyone associated with this operation.

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Here’s my question to Joe Douglas supporters. But before I ask let me say I love a lot of the moves he’s made. Loved the Saleh hire. Loved Wilson, Moore, Carter in last years draft. This current draft on paper looks like a grand slam. With all that said the team is 6-27 under his watch. What are expectations in year 3 of JD? Will a 5-6 win season, albeit a better record than last year, cut it? It’s really a weird situation in my eyes because it feels like he’s building something potentially special but the results on the field have stunk early on. 

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8 minutes ago, dolphann4life said:

Here’s my question to Joe Douglas supporters. But before I ask let me say I love a lot of the moves he’s made. Loved the Saleh hire. Loved Wilson, Moore, Carter in last years draft. This current draft on paper looks like a grand slam. With all that said the team is 6-27 under his watch. What are expectations in year 3 of JD? Will a 5-6 win season, albeit a better record than last year, cut it? It’s really a weird situation in my eyes because it feels like he’s building something potentially special but the results on the field have stunk early on. 

Vibes>>>Wins

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I've never waivered from Day 1. I knew it would take years to rebuild this mess and didn't expect Rome to rebuilt in a day. I also knew that mistakes would happen along the way; no GM is perfect.

JD is the first executive we've ever had who truly has a long-term vision and plans ahead accordingly. He makes moves with intelligence and purpose. He addresses needs. He understands positional value. 

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31 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

Point is simply let's win some god damn games before we anoint literally anyone associated with this operation.

I agree that the W’s do need to come this year.  And if Wilson fails, we gotta nail it with the next QB decision, whether that’s a vet or a rookie. 

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1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

Indeed it was.  Also like how douglas didn’t grossly overpay in either draft capital or salary to acquire deebo, and simply took his favorite wr who is younger and cheaper. 

I go back to what saleh said at the combine about edge rushers, he said there’s a lot of good ones but not a chase young.  That comment said a lot about the jets draft philosophy, they did not feel compelled to get an edge right away and it allowed them to address 2 other severe positions of need.

That'd be a fine story if it was true.

  1. Douglas made an offer for Deebo. Based on what we've heard so far, SF turned him down, not the other way around.
  2. Ditto after making an offer for Hill. 
  3. In between it's likely he made an offer for Metcalf.
  4. As likely as not he also made an offer for Brown. When asked about the Philadelphia/Tenn trade he didn't deny interest of his own; he just avoided answering.

Drafting his favorite younger & cheaper WR may have been his 5th choice. It clearly wasn't his first. 

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36 minutes ago, dolphann4life said:

Here’s my question to Joe Douglas supporters. But before I ask let me say I love a lot of the moves he’s made. Loved the Saleh hire. Loved Wilson, Moore, Carter in last years draft. This current draft on paper looks like a grand slam. With all that said the team is 6-27 under his watch. What are expectations in year 3 of JD? Will a 5-6 win season, albeit a better record than last year, cut it? It’s really a weird situation in my eyes because it feels like he’s building something potentially special but the results on the field have stunk early on. 

Remind me. This is the one who posted the absurd picture of himself in the clerb holding a couple of bottles, right?

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5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That'd be a fine story if it was true.

  1. Douglas made an offer for Deebo. Based on what we've heard so far, SF turned him down, not the other way around.
  2. Ditto after making an offer for Hill. 
  3. In between it's likely he made an offer for Metcalf.
  4. As likely as not he also made an offer for Brown. When asked about the Philadelphia/Tenn trade he didn't deny interest of his own; he just avoided answering.

Drafting his favorite younger & cheaper WR may have been his 5th choice. It clearly wasn't his first. 

While douglas made offers, he didn’t make ridiculous offers.  He didn’t offer a first this year and next year for hill or deebo.  

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5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

While douglas made offers, he didn’t make ridiculous offers.  He didn’t offer a first this year and next year for hill or deebo.  

He made I'm sure a significant offer, which would have then been followed by a mega-contract offer to the player in each instance.

Again, drafting a WR may have been his 5th-preferred choice. Certainly no higher than his 3rd choice and, unless any rumors that he called about Metcalf were all fraudulent, at best his 4th choice.

I'm ok with it, and like Douglas as the GM, but this was clearly not his true desired outcome. 

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He made I'm sure a significant offer, which would have then been followed by a mega-contract offer to the player in each instance.

Again, drafting a WR may have been his 5th-preferred choice. Certainly no higher than his 3rd choice and, unless any rumors that he called about Metcalf were all fraudulent, at best his 4th choice.

I'm ok with it, and like Douglas as the GM, but this was clearly not his true desired outcome. 

Clearly plan A was to trade for a stud wr, without giving up substantial draft capital. He was willing to pay said wr market value.  While KC gave tyreke the flexibility to choose his destination i wonder if KC would have simply taken the jets offer if it had been substantially better than the phins.  

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6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Clearly plan A was to trade for a stud wr, without giving up substantial draft capital. He was willing to pay said wr market value.  While KC gave tyreke the flexibility to choose his destination i wonder if KC would have simply taken the jets offer if it had been substantially better than the phins.  

Except it's not a binary decision of Plan A vs Plan B, since I think that over-simplifies it.

My point is more this:

Plan A was to trade for a stud WR;

Plan B was to trade for a stud WR;

Plan C was to trade for a stud WR;

Plan D may have been to trade for a stud WR;

Plan D or Plan E was to draft a WR at #10.

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1 hour ago, nycdan said:

Just for giggles...here's a look back at the offensive roster going into the 2019 season (before JD's first draft):

image.png

Honestly, other than RB (expectation, not reality), is there a single position we aren't better at?  I liked Beachum so you could call that a draw if you want.  But that OL overall.....sheesh.  There were some mis-steps for JD along the way (Kalil) but that's part of the process of getting to a higher level.  I'm very satisfied with his progress.

This is the vaunted 7-9 team that @SAR I cried about JD breaking down. That team was going nowhere and yes the tear down was ugly but we are in a much better position now. Thank you Joe Douglas! 

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1 hour ago, nycdan said:

Just for giggles...here's a look back at the offensive roster going into the 2019 season (before JD's first draft):

image.png

Honestly, other than RB (expectation, not reality), is there a single position we aren't better at?  I liked Beachum so you could call that a draw if you want.  But that OL overall.....sheesh.  There were some mis-steps for JD along the way (Kalil) but that's part of the process of getting to a higher level.  I'm very satisfied with his progress.

If anything this should be a warning to people given hiw hilariously optimistic everyone (including me) was on the Jets that year.

Easy to look back and laugh at Darnold now. Any criticism of him back then would be met with overwhelming derision on here. 

The lesson should be to let the games play out before we crown our GM.

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Except it's not a binary decision of Plan A vs Plan B, since I think that over-simplifies it.

My point is more this:

Plan A was to trade for a stud WR;

Plan B was to trade for a stud WR;

Plan C was to trade for a stud WR;

Plan D may have been to trade for a stud WR;

Plan D or Plan E was to draft a WR at #10.

Plan A was to trade for a stud wr and they had a list to pursue. Plan b was to draft a wr, which they did b/c they couldn’t, or wouldn’t pony up enough, to execute plan a.

just b/c plan A was unsuccessful, does not mean that plan b is necessarily worse.  I think douglas and the jets got engulfed in an offseason where wrs became the hottest commodities and guys like Christian Kirk are going for a billion dollars.  

My original premise was that douglas did not offer both unreasonable draft capital and an extended contract to these experienced wrs.  SF probably wanted way more than douglas offered for deebo to feel they were ripping them off enough to do it.  Tennessee, on the other hand, saw the writing on the wall and realized they simply couldn’t pour mega bucks into brown and still pay the other studs they have and be in good cap shape so they crafted a plan to draft his replacement.  If Gb and KC didn’t have to pay their star qbs so much money they would have kept their star wrs, but wilson is under a rookie contract and now is the time to trade for and pay an established wr stud.  

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2 hours ago, JTJet said:

Last night went really well.

Still not a JD supporter. Period. 

You win on the field, not on draft day. The Jets have "won the draft" more times than I can remember. 

When the winning happens, I will gladly congratulate him. 

I don’t remember them winning the draft like this

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5 hours ago, THE BARON said:

I wanted Ickey or Sauce @ 4 and I got it.  I wanted a WR # 10, and I got the one I wanted.  I understood they needed an edge rusher, but figured they would not be able to get that taken care of considering I was sure that JD would go SAUCE/ICKEY at 4 and WR at 10.  I woke up this morning to see that JD also managed to get JJ in the first round without giving up too much.  On paper, this may very well be the best Jets 1st round I have ever seen from the Jets or most any other team in a long time. 

I also was on record saying that I felt Thibs was a potential bust.  The Jets passed and the Giants didnt.  Let's see who was right and who was wrong about that. 

NOW... Let's take stock of who is praising JD right now.  Count me in.

If these prospects don't work out on the field as well as we hope they will, we need to be fired along with JD.  We wanted it, we got it.

 

butt-kicking-machine.jpg

IM a Joe guy since the begining from him changing everything to doing things the proper way whether it was structure, how to build a roster etc...hell just not drinking 1000 dunkin doughnuts coffees in one hour, you name it. 

But I was in the opinion you needed edge at 4 but joe correctly saw depth and knew that there was no chance of CB of that caliber getting end of round one where as an edge or WR might...it was a educated gamble and he knew he might want to grab a guy. 

I def wouldn't have drafted sauce and I would have been wrong. It was a gamble but it was best course of action to possible give us a chance at an exceptional round one verse just a good one. 

I think Joe has proved over and over his superior skill and taking opportunities and making them..we are shaking the SOJ stigma in the front office started by Tanny. (tanny did overpay but he did it to give us a shot at the SB - not the way I would prefer but it was acceptable all in strategy - the men following him just over paid to overpay ) anyway Thanks Joe

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1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

Plan A was to trade for a stud wr and they had a list to pursue. Plan b was to draft a wr, which they did b/c they couldn’t, or wouldn’t pony up enough, to execute plan a.

just b/c plan A was unsuccessful, does not mean that plan b is necessarily worse.  I think douglas and the jets got engulfed in an offseason where wrs became the hottest commodities and guys like Christian Kirk are going for a billion dollars.  

My original premise was that douglas did not offer both unreasonable draft capital and an extended contract to these experienced wrs.  SF probably wanted way more than douglas offered for deebo to feel they were ripping them off enough to do it.  Tennessee, on the other hand, saw the writing on the wall and realized they simply couldn’t pour mega bucks into brown and still pay the other studs they have and be in good cap shape so they crafted a plan to draft his replacement.  If Gb and KC didn’t have to pay their star qbs so much money they would have kept their star wrs, but wilson is under a rookie contract and now is the time to trade for and pay an established wr stud.  

Yeah I can see that looked through a particularly friendly lens, but still think you're skipping over these multiple preferred plans by lumping the first 3-4 said plans into one. i.e. "if 3-5 attempts at acquiring a veteran WR1 all fell apart, then he went with a rookie, and I'm calling the rookie Plan B." Meh.

I'm not unhappy with this WR, but I admittedly know little about him other than reading a bunch of people who do know more are saying that he's got lots of the wonderfuls. That'd be great, but he's not yet Deebo, Hill, Metcalf, or Brown.

Your original premise was largely about avoiding the cost of a veteran WR in draft picks OR salary, unless I misread it. Douglas's first 4 preferences were each to absolutely pay that heavy veteran WR salary, and we know from the Hill trade he was willing to ante up plenty for that privilege.

I'm ok with that. I'm ok with him not constantly re-upping his offer as though that's the final missing piece for this otherwise-championship, otherwise WR-less roster. Also Wilson2 looks like a good talent. He's also got plenty to prove before he's favorably compared to any of the other 4 WRs he surely inquired about and/or made outright offers to acquire.

Not just the trades, but seeing how an earlier rumor/leak was that the one FA wideout he wanted to make a play for Mike Williams, but the opportunity wasn't there to even make an offer. There's no evidence he had any interest in Kirk or anyone else of significance. Next-highest interest in FA was re-signing Berrios, which he ultimately got done. So assuming he would've made a play for Williams if he could, that'd then make Wilson (or any rookie WR) as low as Plan F, if you're keeping score lol.

Drafting Wilson - assuming he was their highest-ranked WR in this draft - was somewhere between Douglas's Plan D at best and Plan E at worst, without even counting FAs like Williams or any inquiries about Adams or others.

Drafting Wilson was most definitely not Plan B.

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The rubes are the ones who showed up to camp while Becton is home freebasing Popeye’s spicy chicken sandwiches. Two pesos.

I like to have me one of them sammiches myself, right now... 

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