@PFF_George: Jets had a below average draft

[Jetluv58]

10 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Yes but saying that isn’t going to piss people off and get clicks. 

Yes, monetizing our outrage is all the … rage! 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

The trade up for Breece combined with signing both Uzomah and Conklin = clearest indicators JD is feeling a sense of urgency with Zach Wilson. 

Or just an urgency in removing other excuses from his evaluation, should he fail to meet expectations again.

The worst part of the "we don't need _____ yet while we're rebuilding" with regard to Wilson, Darnold before him, etc. is that it provides a legitimate blame variable, and it's better to go a bit over when doing such evaluation than it is to drag that evaluation process to another year (or even two) too late because those variables allowed for a rational excuse for such a young passer. 

Get rid of those variables and then there's no one left to blame. Poop or get off the pot year for Wilson. Even if he's not a top 5 QB this year, at least show why the team should view him as a franchise QB who's good enough to QB the team to a SB, even if he's not rewriting record books personally. Honestly not unlike Flacco, who's coincidentally the team's QB2 again. 

[derp]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Or just an urgency in removing other excuses from his evaluation, should he fail to meet expectations again.

The worst part of the "we don't need _____ yet while we're rebuilding" with regard to Wilson, Darnold before him, etc. is that it provides a legitimate blame variable, and it's better to go a bit over when doing such evaluation than it is to drag that evaluation process to another year (or even two) too late because those variables allowed for a rational excuse for such a young passer. 

Get rid of those variables and then there's no one left to blame. Poop or get off the pot year for Wilson. Even if he's not a top 5 QB this year, at least show why the team should view him as a franchise QB who's good enough to QB the team to a SB, even if he's not rewriting record books personally. Honestly not unlike Flacco, who's coincidentally the team's QB2 again. 

They’ve had years of bad QB situation after bad QB situation. The last good one before this was for Sanchez. Hopefully Wilson hits, but if not hopefully this means they don’t need to build around the next guy. Get aggressive for someone else and plop him in.

I think time for late day 2/early day 3 QB!dart throws restarts next year too. Kind of wish they took Howell.

[SickJetFan]

9 minutes ago, derp said:

They’ve had years of bad QB situation after bad QB situation. The last good one before this was for Sanchez. Hopefully Wilson hits, but if not hopefully this means they don’t need to build around the next guy. Get aggressive for someone else and plop him in.

I think time for late day 2/early day 3 QB!dart throws restarts next year too. Kind of wish they took Howell.

I think Zack will work out but I do think they should pick a QB next draft...sleeper I got my eye on is Stanford's Tanner McKee

[JohnnyLV]

7 hours ago, CT Jets said:

I feel as if RB have become so undervalued . That they are now a bargain 

10 years ago breece hall would’ve been a top 5-10 pick . He’s for sure one of the top 20 players in the draft. 
 

when he’s taking swing passes for 20 yards instead of falling on his face like Ty Johnson will we think about the 146th pick ?? 

He might have been a Top 5 pick 5 years ago. Barkley and McCaffrey have really cooled off the willingness to go RB round 1. I personally don't get it. Elite RBs have a gigantic effect on games still. Just because you can get "good" performance from lesser players does not negate their value in my view.

[fullblast]

repost

 

[Jet9]

12 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

He might have been a Top 5 pick 5 years ago. Barkley and McCaffrey have really cooled off the willingness to go RB round 1. I personally don't get it. Elite RBs have a gigantic effect on games still. Just because you can get "good" performance from lesser players does not negate their value in my view.

If I had to guess it's about drafting a guy top 5-10 and only getting 5 (maybe) legit years out of them. RB is a brutal position to play, even with all the rules favoring the O. 

[jvill 51]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Agree, and I think a lot of it had to do with last year he got a bunch of depth pieces he didn't need to double down upon.

I've put this out there for a few months: how many rookies does a HC really want to see on the field in his 2nd season here? There are only so many you'd want out there without running into too much on-field inexperience overtaking their bump in ceiling potential. 

They drafted 10 players last year; plus 7 more this year - with 5 of them coming by day 2 and 4 of them in the top 40 overall - really is enough.

You can claim they needed more to make up for 2020's class, but it doesn't work that way (not fully, anyway). The later they get picked, the less likely they are to pan out at all, and even if they do the later it often takes (e.g. after 1 year Evan Engram was more productive than Kittle; not so much since then).

After a handful of starters (and still more who see the field a good amount) were drafted in 2021, they were never going to start 8+ more guys from this draft class, even if they'd kept those extra picks. Never mind the 3rd & 4th picks may have been lesser if they'd sat on their hands and "let the draft come to them" (which is a great cliché until Atlanta takes Brett Favre ahead of us, leaving the Jets with Browning Nagle and tears).

Yup. And to add to this, forget starters for a second. How many roster spots, realistically, would have been available to those additional rookies? All seven picks they made are very likely to make the roster. Would the two late 5th round picks have even been guaranteed to make the 53? I think you could make a strong argument that 40+ of the eventual 53 man roster is already set in stone when you factor in the recent draft class, and a good number of those open spots are overwhelmingly likely to go to experienced backups, either those already on the team or late FA additions.

Add in UDFA signings they’d have to compete with and the fact that this draft was already light on talent as it is, and you’re essentially saying that the Jets had a “below average” draft because they didn’t get to make two additional dart throws on guys who I’d say are just as likely to be cut in camp or relegated to the practice squad as they are to even make the bottom of the roster (where the odds are even greater still that they’d be replaced in the next year or two anyway). Maybe its just me, but I’d say those dart throws are better spent on securing the guys you believe in and have a clear plan for.

[Jet25]

He had a below average tweet!

[sirlancemehlot]

9 hours ago, ZachWilsonRightArm said:

None of these PFF nerds like the Jets draft. I guess the Jets not trading down and getting that 6th round sleeper really put a damper on things, aww shucks! 

Because they're trying to apply metrics to something that has no standard metric.  The draft is and was and always will be far too full of variables to be judged by the likes of PFF.  Here you have a draft with 3 arguable top ten talents, as many as four day 1 starters out of seven total picks.  But PFF decides to assign points to this, subtract them for that...push generalizations that don't apply to the top talent like: "trading up for a RB is bad", without taking into consideration the team need for a RB and the fact that the one they traded up for was the consensus best available back in all of college football.  Metrics is for baseball.  Basketball is doable but its a true team sport.  Football, a few positions can be measured through metrics, but not every one.  A draft?  C'mon, man.

[Embrace the Suck]

The douche nozzle acts like the Jets were gifted multiple 1sts, 2nds, 4ths ect...

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Why 'urgency'? Why not just prudent planning? We had little to no TE talent so signing two and drafting one isn't that puzzling. We had one good young RB and a bunch of filler otherwise. Now we have a one two punch to keep both fresh and not have a lapse in production when one goes out. Those moves of course help the QB, but those moves would help any QB. We aren't used to having a rational player at GM so it seems like desperation to add talent around your second year QB, but it's just common sense. Instead heart broken Jets fans sound an alarm. lol

I don't think it's a form of desperation to add talent around your second year quarterback - I agree that's common sense. 

We signed two free agent TE's to 7+ mil a year contracts and traded up in the second round for an immediate impact three-down-RB. I'd argue those were the all-in moves. That's more than being prudent.

I think prudent was adding another starting caliber receiver and signing a no-brainer 49er Laken T to upgrade the hole at guard we had the whole of last year until LDT came in at the end. 

Now add our attempted trades for Deebo and Tyreek, and our attempt to sign Marcus Williams? I feel like JD & Saleh know they need some material success this year - .500 or better. 

[Jet_Engine1]

14 hours ago, Bronx said:

F YOU!

Stick to teaching 8th Grade Math, George...

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Or just an urgency in removing other excuses from his evaluation, should he fail to meet expectations again.

The worst part of the "we don't need _____ yet while we're rebuilding" with regard to Wilson, Darnold before him, etc. is that it provides a legitimate blame variable, and it's better to go a bit over when doing such evaluation than it is to drag that evaluation process to another year (or even two) too late because those variables allowed for a rational excuse for such a young passer. 

Get rid of those variables and then there's no one left to blame. Poop or get off the pot year for Wilson. Even if he's not a top 5 QB this year, at least show why the team should view him as a franchise QB who's good enough to QB the team to a SB, even if he's not rewriting record books personally. Honestly not unlike Flacco, who's coincidentally the team's QB2 again. 

I agree re; no excuses. 

I heard this already in some post-draft coverage "Joe Douglas couldn't have done more for Zach Wilson this offseason" and I think that's exactly the narrative Joe D wants out there. 

And generally speaking, yes, I think he did everything possible and nothing foolish (like a 1,2 & 5 for Deebo or a Christian Kirk deal).

Wilson has to take a big jump.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Or just an urgency in removing other excuses from his evaluation, should he fail to meet expectations again.

The worst part of the "we don't need _____ yet while we're rebuilding" with regard to Wilson, Darnold before him, etc. is that it provides a legitimate blame variable, and it's better to go a bit over when doing such evaluation than it is to drag that evaluation process to another year (or even two) too late because those variables allowed for a rational excuse for such a young passer. 

Get rid of those variables and then there's no one left to blame. Poop or get off the pot year for Wilson. Even if he's not a top 5 QB this year, at least show why the team should view him as a franchise QB who's good enough to QB the team to a SB, even if he's not rewriting record books personally. Honestly not unlike Flacco, who's coincidentally the team's QB2 again. 

I think this is exactly it.  Get rid of the variables and the excuses.  Soon enough JD is going to have to make a decision about whether to re-sign Zach and we'd better have a clear picture of what we're working with.  I feel comfortable now that Zach will have plenty enough to work with.  The OL doesn't have depth but it should be good.  We have 2 quality RBs, 4 quality WRs (2 of which can potentially be stars) and 2 legit TEs (along with a very promising rookie in the wings).  

[carlito1171]

This wasn't a deep draft...this wasn't the draft to have 1 million picks and fill a bunch of depth. Not to mention the Jets came into this draft with 81 players already on the roster....

But go off George ?

[bostonmajet]

So here is the rationale - if the Jets are a bad roster in the midst of a complete 'rebuild' yes, JD made a mistake by choosing quality over quantity. Last draft, he did the opposite, he traded down to get more picks (and there were times he was 'challenged' for it).

If you think the 'rebuild' is over and now we are in normal build mode where you have a reasonable roster, but you are trying to plug certain spots, you can go for quality over quantity. As the roster improves, it gets harder and harder to draft players that will improve the roster, so often you have to trade up (or there are just players you really want) get them.

Between last year's draft and the 2 free agency periods, I think you are hearing JD declare the full rebuild is over. If you count the number of players (or more importantly starters) that are still here since JD came on board, I think you might agree. We have reasonable players at OL, WR, RB, DL, CB, S, and even TE; while there are clearly gaps, this is a relatively complete team and you can see UDFA in certain positions choosing to go elsewhere. Even Captain Morgan knew he wouldn't get to play here :-).

[Jetsfan80]

16 hours ago, Bronx said:

 

@**** You PFF

[Jetsfan80]

11 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I honestly don't remember.  Though maybe the only person in the entire organization he liked was Gase.

And who fired Gase?  Exactly.

[#27TheDominator]

I don't get why people are so upset by this. 

First, these guys specifically were not giving credit for trades before draft day.   They loved the Darnold and Adam's deals, but did not take them into account here.

Second, they worry about value and care about the dart throws thatcan become something.  Personally, I am fine with the trade ups.   I want a GM that will trust his evaluation and go after his guys.   Still. seems kind of hypocritical to suck Douglas off while whining about how Tannenbaum's trade ups ruined "Mangini's team."

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.  Think of 2017.  The Jets didn't reach for a QB and git the "best player in the draft."   They "smartly" were waiting for "the historic 2018 QB class" which was can't miss, as long as they didn't take the inaccurate Allen or RB playing QB Jackson.  How does that look in hindsight?

Personally, I like this group.  I am glad they went for a real corner and aren't pretending they can train every long squid to play the position.  Wilson seemed the cleanest WR prospect, and I think they went for Hall because they didn't trust Walker in pass pro.  I like that Johnson seems game ready and plays the run.  Still, trading up for a RB is something most of us are generally against and Johnson has some character issues that may show up.  I am not going to whine about some talking head math nerd taking issue.  Time will tell who is correct.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, derp said:

They’ve had years of bad QB situation after bad QB situation. The last good one before this was for Sanchez. Hopefully Wilson hits, but if not hopefully this means they don’t need to build around the next guy. Get aggressive for someone else and plop him in.

I think time for late day 2/early day 3 QB!dart throws restarts next year too. Kind of wish they took Howell.

I think they're just all-in on Wilson to the point where they're not thinking about what-ifs with drafting a mid-rounder last week. If Wilson isn't what they hope they'll just go in another direction; when they change directions depends on how short of expectations he falls. Does he look like he's on a noticeable upswing but still not all that, or is he still pretty sucky? If the latter I don't think he gets a 3rd unquestioned season; the former...hard to say, and probably the deciding factor is the sum of things they saw between games that fans couldn't.

But again, this year? Meh if they were looking for a real contingency plan they'd have gotten a younger QB2 than Flacco and someone with more than 1 good career game in White. So they're all in this season & didn't want to "waste" a pick on someone who wasn't going to be a Wilson asset on offense or a defender to help get the ball back to him more quickly. 

[RevisIsland610]

Lets see. We drafted arguably the best corner, the best receiver, the best edge, the best running back, and the second best TE all in one draft and this PFF tool says it's below average. Yeah ok. I guess the many other draftniks who gave them A grades and the fans are all wrong. This tool will be eating crow. 

[jamesr]

10 hours ago, Jet9 said:

If I had to guess it's about drafting a guy top 5-10 and only getting 5 (maybe) legit years out of them. RB is a brutal position to play, even with all the rules favoring the O. 

Then there's the other challenge of contracts - a really good RB is going to want a lot of money round about the time where they may be starting to wear down / become a bigger injury risk.

[jamesr]

19 hours ago, Dcat said:

 

Just curious.... what the hell is SAR going to do with all of his JD hate now?  

"If I said the Jets would start 1-15 this year, would you call me crazy?"   

[Bronx]

One more for the 'Top 100' @DoomProphet sh*t list.

 

[Sonny Werblin]

On 5/2/2022 at 5:12 AM, Smashmouth said:

Oh no we traded up for a RB !!! Its people like this idiot that push the bullsh*t and put value on positions (which are usually wrong) rather than team needs. Getting a dynamic running back is the quickest way to turn an offense around. Sure they deal with injuries and have a short life span but when you hit on a great one there's nothing like it.

RB's can control a game, they can help keep your defense off the field in the 4th quarter and on a particularly great day they they can get as many as 30 touches while some of the greatest WR's are lucky to touch the ball 5-8 times. They also block for the QB and act as a very important check down but hey there just a RB . I'm sick and tired of this narrative  RB's have the most Impact next to the QB and its not even close.

One need look no further than the Jets performance last season with and without Michael Carter. And when you consider that the Jets O wants to run the ball and throw the ball to RBs, the value of the pick should be obvious.

[slats]

11 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Personally, I am fine with the trade ups.   I want a GM that will trust his evaluation and go after his guys.   Still. seems kind of hypocritical to suck Douglas off while whining about how Tannenbaum's trade ups ruined "Mangini's team."

I think it’s a matter of time and place. Tannenbaum couldn’t draft, and he knew it. He had no player evaluation skills. So he either traded up or traded his picks away for veteran players consistently. The Jets went five years in a row taking less than 7 players in the draft under Tanny. JD just traded up twice, and still managed to come away with 7 players. And that’s after coming away with 9 and 10 in his two previous drafts. Over 2009 and ‘10, the Jets took seven players in total! The result was a top heavy team that had zero depth. Then you had Idzik come in and try to overcorrect with 12 picks, 9 of which were on day three, in a draft perceived to be as weak as the one we just navigated. He probably would’ve been wise to package some picks and move up for specific guys, too, rather than grab that collection of stiffs. 
 
Joe Douglas, instead, found four new starters, maybe taking the top CB, WR, and RB in this class, and closed up shop early in day three because there was nothing but trash left. The team is much better than it was last Wednesday, and that’s what the draft is supposed to be about. They hit premium positions with premium picks and significantly upgraded five different position groups, bring in new #1 players at two or three of them. I don’t care what anyone’s metrics say, that’s good work. 

[slats]

2 hours ago, Bronx said:

One more for the 'Top 100' @DoomProphet sh*t list.

 

Jet fans love their OL, and they love AVT, but that was not a good trade. I’m okay with anything that turns okay in the end but, he’s right, that was bad process there. 

[Jet9]

6 hours ago, jamesr said:

Then there's the other challenge of contracts - a really good RB is going to want a lot of money round about the time where they may be starting to wear down / become a bigger injury risk.

Zeke comes to mind. I usually can't stand guys asking for new deals with tons of time left on the current deal, but RB really IS different. 

[jamesr]

1 minute ago, Jet9 said:

Zeke comes to mind. I usually can't stand guys asking for new deals with tons of time left on the current deal, but RB really IS different. 

That was the example I thought of earlier. They had to move on from Cooper because they are cap strapped. Not because they paid their QB, but because they overpaid for their RB.

 

[Irish Jet]

36 minutes ago, slats said:

Jet fans love their OL, and they love AVT, but that was not a good trade. I’m okay with anything that turns okay in the end but, he’s right, that was bad process there. 

So miserable.

[Tranquilo]

42 minutes ago, slats said:

Jet fans love their OL, and they love AVT, but that was not a good trade. I’m okay with anything that turns okay in the end but, he’s right, that was bad process there. 

I disagree. These trades don't happen in a vacuum. There's too much context that's missing in this analysis. And he's also being intentionally vague about what the value of the pick really was (wasn't 5-10, more like 10-13).

Agree to disagree.

[slats]

23 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

So miserable.

I’ve got a long way to go. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I think it’s a matter of time and place. Tannenbaum couldn’t draft, and he knew it. He had no player evaluation skills. So he either traded up or traded his picks away for veteran players consistently. The Jets went five years in a row taking less than 7 players in the draft under Tanny. JD just traded up twice, and still managed to come away with 7 players. And that’s after coming away with 9 and 10 in his two previous drafts. Over 2009 and ‘10, the Jets took seven players in total! The result was a top heavy team that had zero depth. Then you had Idzik come in and try to overcorrect with 12 picks, 9 of which were on day three, in a draft perceived to be as weak as the one we just navigated. He probably would’ve been wise to package some picks and move up for specific guys, too, rather than grab that collection of stiffs. 
 
Joe Douglas, instead, found four new starters, maybe taking the top CB, WR, and RB in this class, and closed up shop early in day three because there was nothing but trash left. The team is much better than it was last Wednesday, and that’s what the draft is supposed to be about. They hit premium positions with premium picks and significantly upgraded five different position groups, bring in new #1 players at two or three of them. I don’t care what anyone’s metrics say, that’s good work. 

I get what you are saying and don't necessarily disagree, but this is some of the same stuff I am talking about.  Douglas got starters?  None of the. have started a game yet.  Who knows if they will?

I remember Idzik getting slobbered for getting the best qb in the draft in round 2.  Who gives a ****?  The only reason the trade ups have any validity is if there is a big difference between players.  jumping up and down based on draft guide values is moronic. 

Corey Davis is a starter.  Big ******* deal.  How much better is the team with Tyreek Hill or Davante Adams? That is what you are looking for.  Difference makers.  Garrett Wilson might be the key.  He is a starter but how much difference will he make?  Moore looked like one but he is hurt often.  If they both are we are golden.  If Moore is hurt and Wilson is another Corey Davis?  I am not praising that.

[Maynard13]

On 5/2/2022 at 4:30 AM, New York Mick said:

He achieved exactly what he wanted to do and got attention and clicks. That’s his job, advertisers don’t care about the truth.
 

I never heard of this guy before he was posted here. 

I’d bet $10 bucks this guy is Jamal Adams incognito.