@PFF_George: Jets had a below average draft

[slats]

45 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Again, not sure why this bothers anybody.  

These PFF nerds are grading the process.   Can't grade the players yet, no matter how excited everybody is about how many "starters" we drafted.

AVT didn't play as well as you all think but I am hopeful he will be a cornerstone.    They traded #23 (760 points) #66 (260) and #86 (160) for #14 (1100) and #143.(34.5).  AVT is a guard.  The fact that he can be a crappy tackle is not that big a deal.  He can play multiple positions?  How many positions could the guys we'd have drafted at 23, 66 and 86 have played?

You trade up and you can't miss.  Hit your targets and you are fine.  I don't have a problem with trusting the scouting, especially with all the extra picks we had.  Still, as a process it isn't something you want to continually be doing.  That is what pff is saying and why you all hate Mike T.

 

Well said, especially the last paragraph. Love the player, hate the process. Lol! 

[slats]

42 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

The problem I have with positional value is that it’s not factoring the actual player. It speaks too much in generalities. Is Dereck Henry worth a 2nd round pick? Is the Colts pick of Quenton Nelson a bad pick? Is the Colts pick in the 2nd of Jonathan Taylor a bad pick?

It’s more a risk/reward debate. If you take a RB in the 2nd, in order for it to be worth it, he needs to be a top 5 RB. Same with guard in the 1st. The position makes riskier that you’re going to get the most value. But a top 5 guard is more valuable than a swing tackle. So how you project players matters. Breece Hall projects as a top 5 RB in this league.

I don’t love that Quentin Nelson pick, so there’s that. The Colts are on the hook for $37.9M for a guard. Where has that gotten them? And who knows what he’s gonna get paid in free agency? These OL picked high generally do nicely on their second deals. I definitely push against the First Church of the Holy Offensive Line around here. You don’t need top ten guards in the draft, you need a great OL coach. The OL is a unit, save the early picks for LTs. 
 
And here’s the fun thing: I LOVE the Breece Hall pick. That was the only pick all draft where I literally jumped out of my seat as if Travon Wesco just scored a 47 yard TD. I fully understand why the analytics guys would hate it, I’ve preached against drafting RBs high, myself. But this was the right player at the right time. This is a guy with top level film (read: awesome YouTube highlights), production, and testing scores. This is a game changer that you got in the second round, not a good (so far) guard in the top half of the first. This one player does so much for Zach Wilson and the offense as a whole. He changes what the offense is able to do - which is why I hate offenses that revolve around a specific RB, lol. But the Jets are in a great place with Hall and Carter where as long as either of them is healthy, the Jets running game is going to be healthy. If they’re both healthy…  man, just good stuff. 

[juxsta]

Meanwhile also PFF....So what's it gonna be? We drafted poorly or we have 2 top weapons in fantasy this year??  

 

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

47 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

These dudes are the outliers at PFF. Mostly everyone else at PFF say the Jets had a good draft. They’re misunderstanding the process. Trading down is not the only thing that matters in the process. And in fact, if you watch the video, you’d see that he also had issue with who they picked. So more than just process. Anyway, like I said, they’re outliers. 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2022-nfl-draft-grades#NYJ

 

I didn't watch this schmoe's video but I watched some of the others.  I find the whole thing a joke.  How can you rank players before they play?

Johnson dropped because he interviewed poorly and teams had issues with his attitude.  Hall is a day 2 Rb.  plenty of performing rushers come from  later and likely will this season.  Wilson seems fairly clean but I don't know any of these WR ranked top 10.  

They are outliers?  So what?  Plenty of people liked the Jets draft, myself included.  Did everyone have to?  Will we lose any games because our high draft grade wasn't unanimous ly A+?

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I don’t love that Quentin Nelson pick, so there’s that. The Colts are on the hook for $37.9M for a guard. Where has that gotten them? And who knows what he’s gonna get paid in free agency? These OL picked high generally do nicely on their second deals. I definitely push against the First Church of the Holy Offensive Line around here. You don’t need top ten guards in the draft, you need a great OL coach. The OL is a unit, save the early picks for LTs. 
 
And here’s the fun thing: I LOVE the Breece Hall pick. That was the only pick all draft where I literally jumped out of my seat as if Travon Wesco just scored a 47 yard TD. I fully understand why the analytics guys would hate it, I’ve preached against drafting RBs high, myself. But this was the right player at the right time. This is a guy with top level film (read: awesome YouTube highlights), production, and testing scores. This is a game changer that you got in the second round, not a good (so far) guard in the top half of the first. This one player does so much for Zach Wilson and the offense as a whole. He changes what the offense is able to do - which is why I hate offenses that revolve around a specific RB, lol. But the Jets are in a great place with Hall and Carter where as long as either of them is healthy, the Jets running game is going to be healthy. If they’re both healthy…  man, just good stuff. 

You didn’t love the Nelson pick yet, when teams can’t or won’t draft OL and their qbs are getting killed and the teams are sucking, they’re willing to overpay for good OL in FA, even guards now.  

As much or more than any other team, the jets’ drafts for many years were characterized by not only sucking but investing in the wrong positions in early rounds.  Way too many DTs who couldn’t pass rush, and then of course there’s the adams/maye fiasco as well as the Louisville slugger. There was a time when guard was also considered a bad early first round pick.  And there was a time when cb was unequivocally a premium position. 

Now i ask, how many of us were really happy they took sauce, when they took him?  Now it looks great, a piece of a great draft class.  But few wanted a cb taken at 4.  

My point is that in today’s nfl, if you can take a really good guard, just do it.  He helps the team more than a good cb, lb or safety.  On defense only edge rushers are clearly premium positions.  

[Scoop24]

Main pff guys dont agree with him

starts 46 minute mark 

[#27TheDominator]

19 minutes ago, juxsta said:

Meanwhile also PFF....So what's it gonna be? We drafted poorly or we have 2 top weapons in fantasy this year??  

 

 

 

So all of PFF has to be united now?  The Jets skill position players sucked.  All this means is we drafted a RB1 and WR1.  When fantasy performance correlates to wins and losses this might be relevant, but certainly not for this discussion.

[Tranquilo]

44 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I didn't watch this schmoe's video but I watched some of the others.  I find the whole thing a joke.  How can you rank players before they play?

Johnson dropped because he interviewed poorly and teams had issues with his attitude.  Hall is a day 2 Rb.  plenty of performing rushers come from  later and likely will this season.  Wilson seems fairly clean but I don't know any of these WR ranked top 10.  

They are outliers?  So what?  Plenty of people liked the Jets draft, myself included.  Did everyone have to?  Will we lose any games because our high draft grade wasn't unanimous ly A+?

I can criticize him for his awful take and misunderstanding of the process. Are you his ******* wife? He’s wrong. The Jets traded up for better players and still came away with 7 players. They should not have drafted Malik Willis in the second round and I rather draft a player who will play than a DE that won’t see the field. Do I have to agree with him? 

[slats]

50 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Now i ask, how many of us were really happy they took sauce, when they took him?  Now it looks great, a piece of a great draft class.  But few wanted a cb taken at 4.  

My point is that in today’s nfl, if you can take a really good guard, just do it.  He helps the team more than a good cb, lb or safety.  On defense only edge rushers are clearly premium positions.  

We’re gonna have to part here. I didn’t expect Sauce, but I was comfortable with the idea before the draft. We were being sold that they don’t value the position, but Gardner clearly fit the profile of tall, long, rangy CB that they like to develop. He was supposedly one of the few blue chips in the draft, and he fit the scheme perfectly. He moves the needle for this team far more than even a great guard might hope to. The guard position is on par with LBs and safeties, but it’s more likely that one of those positions can become a dominant, game changing type player over a guard. Sorry, but guard is the type of position you fill with late picks, not trade up for. 

[rtnelson]

On 5/2/2022 at 8:59 AM, Dcat said:

those of you who have been reading pff since its inception know how they ALWAYS rag on the Jets... in any capacity... real NFL, fantasy.  Plus their positional scores during the season are dubious at best.  I lost the link to the article dammit, but it was at least 5 yrs old and it showed the absurdity of PFF's player scores. Basically it made no sense.  But that was years ago.  

Much like Walter Football has, PFF just has this thing about the Jets.  It always has.  THe reality though is their manipulation of stats is comical.

I watched their AFC East draft grades today and both guys seemed reasonable.  They seemed to defend the Breece Hall pick from their PFF colleague. It seems they think the roster is good, and if Zach is good the Jets are good.

[ryu79]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

You didn’t love the Nelson pick yet, when teams can’t or won’t draft OL and their qbs are getting killed and the teams are sucking, they’re willing to overpay for good OL in FA, even guards now.  

As much or more than any other team, the jets’ drafts for many years were characterized by not only sucking but investing in the wrong positions in early rounds.  Way too many DTs who couldn’t pass rush, and then of course there’s the adams/maye fiasco as well as the Louisville slugger. There was a time when guard was also considered a bad early first round pick.  And there was a time when cb was unequivocally a premium position. 

Now i ask, how many of us were really happy they took sauce, when they took him?  Now it looks great, a piece of a great draft class.  But few wanted a cb taken at 4.  

My point is that in today’s nfl, if you can take a really good guard, just do it.  He helps the team more than a good cb, lb or safety.  On defense only edge rushers are clearly premium positions.  

I think it's hard to question the Nelson pick when that team would likely have been a Superbowl contender if their ironically named QB hadn't decided to retire suddenly and unexpectedly sinking their battleship. 

[juxsta]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

So all of PFF has to be united now?  The Jets skill position players sucked.  All this means is we drafted a RB1 and WR1.  When fantasy performance correlates to wins and losses this might be relevant, but certainly not for this discussion.

The discussion is a PFF staffer says “Jets had a below average draft “. Many other PFF people say the Jets had a great draft, Including one who said we have 2 of the top projected fantasy players. Thats the relevance to this discussion.

I never brought up wins and losses based on any of the PFF takes so I don’t know why you did.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

2 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

I can criticize him for his awful take and misunderstanding of the process. Are you his ******* wife? He’s wrong. The Jets traded up for better players and still came away with 7 players. They should not have drafted Malik Willis in the second round and I rather draft a player who will play than a DE that won’t see the field. Do I have to agree with him? 

You guys are extraordinarily defensive about draft grades and you need to chill the f out because they're draft grades.

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, rtnelson said:

I watched their AFC East draft grades today and both guys seemed reasonable.  They seemed to defend the Breece Hall pick from their PFF colleague. It seems they think the roster is good, and if Zach is good the Jets are good.

well at least that makes sense.  Good for them. PFF grades during the season are warped.

[fullblast]

Different take from PFF:

 

I can see where the detractors are coming from though. If they stayed at 35 & 38 they could have still had Hall and taken someone like Ebiketie at 38. Then still had that 3rd rounder and maybe address IDL there. Still disagree with them bashing the Hall pick itself on the basis of  "bEcuAuSe RunNiNgBaCk." Folks have gone a little overboard with their devaluing of the RB position.

[Tranquilo]

9 hours ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

You guys are extraordinarily defensive about draft grades and you need to chill the f out because they're draft grades.

No one is talking about draft grades. We are talking about what he said. Maybe you haven’t seen the video either? I can comment on that if I ******* feel like it. You don’t have to tell me I don’t have to agree. Instead, you can just mind your business if you’re not going to have a convo about it.

Some people here think they’re the conversation police or some sh*t. 

[TuscanyTile2]

On 5/2/2022 at 6:29 AM, Anthony Jet said:

Couldn’t agree more and this goes with everything in life nowadays, it’s terrible 

Congrats, man!  The world is going in the direction you wanted.

 

[GreenFish]

For those that like to listen to podcast, I recommend listening to today’s PFF NFL podcast. Sam and Steve went through the AFCE drafts. As some have said, it’s really just a couple of guys at PFF that didnt like the Jets draft. These guys loved the Jets draft. They dont like taking RB early but still liked the Breece Hall pick because he fits the offensive scheme and he is explosive.

[fullblast]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Congrats, man!  The world is going in the direction you wanted.

 

This is Will Smith's fault

[GreenFish]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Congrats, man!  The world is going in the direction you wanted.

 

Crazy. Not a coincidence this happened after nobody blinked an eye when Will Smith slapped Chris Rock. Unbelievable. And Chapelle is not the type of comedian who roasts his crowd. He usually makes fun of current events. Brilliant comedian. 

[GreenFish]

15 minutes ago, fullblast said:

This is Will Smith's fault

I’m genuinely upset about this. Like this world has gotten so uptight. I love comedy. It’s fun to laugh. But it’s also humbling and forces us to not take things too serious.

Now people are trying to sensor comedians. Wtf. 

[Anthony Jet]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Congrats, man!  The world is going in the direction you wanted.

 

No this is the exact opposite. But your assumptions in this thread prove that meme to be 100 percent true. 

[Anthony Jet]

53 minutes ago, fullblast said:

This is Will Smith's fault

Don’t know if your serious or not but that’s the first thing I thought of too. 

[TuscanyTile2]

15 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

No this is the exact opposite. But your assumptions in this thread prove that meme to be 100 percent true. 

People physically attacking those whose opinions they don't like.  You were all for it.  This is the world you wanted.  Congrats!

[Anthony Jet]

8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

People physically attacking those whose opinions they don't like.  You were all for it.  This is the world you wanted.  Congrats!

That’s not what that meme meant it was a joke on mike Tyson altercation on a plane a few days before that. A joke that fit in good with the point that everyone has an opinion about everything with no consequences which this thread was discussing. 

But you,  maker of some of the stupidest threads this site has seen in an attempt at humor, decide to take that literally and run with it. 
 

Im pretty sure that quote isn’t actually from Iron Mike
 

Good stuff buddy. 

[kevinc855]

On 5/2/2022 at 4:28 AM, Bronx said:

F YOU!

This has to be the worst take ever

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Anthony Jet said:

That’s not what that meme meant it was a joke on mike Tyson altercation on a plane a few days before that. A joke that fit in good with the point that everyone has an opinion about everything with no consequences which this thread was discussing. 

But you,  maker of some of the stupidest threads this site has seen in an attempt at humor, decide to take that literally and run with it. 
 

Good stuff buddy. 

If you were making a joke then I apologize.

But if your point was "everyone has an opinion about everything with no consequences" as in "there should be consequences" (like physical violence for opinions you don't like) then I stand by what I said.

[Anthony Jet]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If you were making a joke then I apologize.

But if your point was "everyone has an opinion about everything with no consequences" as in "there should be consequences" (like physical violence for opinions you don't like) then I stand by what I said.

No. I don’t think people should be punched in the face for there own opinions. Glad that’s out of the way. 
 

But I do agree with the original comment a quoted. Everyone has to many opinions with no consequences (consequences ≠ violence necessarily) thanks to the internet. Especially when it comes to the hot stove or player projections or whatever 

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

No. I don’t think people should be punched in the face for there own opinions. Glad that’s out of the way. 
 

But I do agree with the original comment a quoted. Everyone has to many opinions with no consequences (consequences ≠ violence necessarily) thanks to the internet. Especially when it comes to the hot stove or player projections or whatever 

Well I apologize then because I do think I misinterpreted you.  But the Mike Tyson comment you quoted specially said "Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it". 

In other words, it (the quote) was 100% about physical violence. 

[Facts]

15 hours ago, slats said:

We’re gonna have to part here. I didn’t expect Sauce, but I was comfortable with the idea before the draft. We were being sold that they don’t value the position, but Gardner clearly fit the profile of tall, long, rangy CB that they like to develop. He was supposedly one of the few blue chips in the draft, and he fit the scheme perfectly. He moves the needle for this team far more than even a great guard might hope to. The guard position is on par with LBs and safeties, but it’s more likely that one of those positions can become a dominant, game changing type player over a guard. Sorry, but guard is the type of position you fill with late picks, not trade up for. 

^^ This is a really well thought out post.

You mentioned "moving the needle" and I agree that top 10 draft picks HAVE to move the needle. They NEED to have glaring impacts on games.

That's why I really hated the Sauce pick. I think he will be a good player, but does he move the needle? Does he make a glaring impact on wins & losses? I really do NOT think so.

Think about the best CB's in the league. Do any of them change games? Off the top of my head...

Jaire Alexander - Missed 12 games last year and the Packers went 11-3 without him.

Xavien Howard - Does anyone think he's changing games in Miami?

Marshon Lattimore - Saints lose Brees and no-one hears about Lattimore anymore. He doesn't move the needle as far as turning L's into W's.

I dont even blame the CB. The NFL is just super different now than it was in the mid 2000's when Revis dominated. 

A lot of people forget that it's been over a decade since Revis' prime. 

The NFL has moved the rules to be so offense focused that great CB's dont have the same impact that they once did. 

So thats where I am with it -Sauce will be good. We will be happy to have him. He will make plays. I may even get his jersey.

But will he be a game-changing pick which is what you want as a Top 10 pick?

I dont see it.

 

[Anthony Jet]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Well I apologize then because I do think I misinterpreted you.  But the Mike Tyson comment you quoted specially said "Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it". 

In other words, it (the quote) was 100% about physical violence. 

We are good no worries. 
 

yes mike Tyson “comment” has violence. But it also says disrespecting someone. No disagreeing with someone 

But everyone can take it how they want. I thought it was prettt funny considering the current events 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

5 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

No one is talking about draft grades. We are talking about what he said. Maybe you haven’t seen the video either? I can comment on that if I ******* feel like it. You don’t have to tell me I don’t have to agree. Instead, you can just mind your business if you’re not going to have a convo about it.

Some people here think they’re the conversation police or some sh*t. 

You can talk about whatever you want but getting emotionally invested in other people's takes about the Jets seems to be really upsetting to you. If it makes you feel any better, the degree of unanimity has absolutely no relation to the actual results. The straw poll is running at about 95% positive, and the odds of any draft class completely bricking out are substantially higher than 5%. Dry your eyes. It's not such a big deal that there's one guy saying boo. There should be more.

[Tranquilo]

1 minute ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

You can talk about whatever you want but getting emotionally invested in other people's takes about the Jets seems to be really upsetting to you. If it makes you feel any better, the degree of unanimity has absolutely no relation to the actual results. The straw poll is running at about 95% positive, and the odds of any draft class completely bricking out are substantially higher than 5%. Dry your eyes. It's not such a big deal that there's one guy saying boo. There should be more.

No one is mad, crying or emotional. Once again, I'm allowed to respond to something I watched. If I can talk about whatever I want, why the **** are up on my ass?

[Morrissey]

18 hours ago, juxsta said:

Meanwhile also PFF....So what's it gonna be? We drafted poorly or we have 2 top weapons in fantasy this year??  

 

 

 

PFF is like ESPN (much smaller) and other sports outlets. They have many people and talking heads who work for then. It's seems like only 1 or 2 of them didn't like the Jets draft.

[Morrissey]

PFF very much loved the Jets draft... 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-winners-2022-nfl-draft-monson

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-offensive-defensive-rookie-of-the-year-candidates-2022

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-grading-situations-second-year-quarterbacks-zach-wilson-trevor-lawrence-justin-fields-2022

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-projecting-most-impactful-2022-rookie-draft-classes

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-rookies-ideal-situations-every-position-2022

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2022-nfl-draft-grades