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One thing I really like about the Sauce and Breece picks…


slats
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17 minutes ago, slats said:

Rigid coaches, those who put their scheme and philosophy above taking advantage of the talent at their disposal, bother me the most. I’m all about having a philosophy, but the coaches’ primary job is to get the most out of his players and, therefore, team. Here they demonstrated a willingness to change the way do things in order to obtain and utilize premium talents. It’s refreshing and exciting. 

Strange..... Very Strange. See what I did there?? BB reference!

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7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

If Sauce was not there then Ekonwu could very well have been the pick so I hardly think anyone is being a rube in thinking they might take an olineman, especially when Becton has more question marks than the riddlers suit.

I'll give you the Breece Hall pick though, I did not think they would take a RB that high.

It also means the team is learning from last years mistakes scheme wise, at least on defense.

I've thought about the Sauce vs Ekwonu topic if Sauce wasn't there but I have a hard time envisioning that pick not being WR or Edge. If there is any truth to the Jets wanting JJ at 10 if Wilson was gone then I could have seen them going Wilson at 4 and JJ at 10

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16 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

If Sauce was not there then Ekonwu could very well have been the pick so I hardly think anyone is being a rube in thinking they might take an olineman, especially when Becton has more question marks than the riddlers suit.

I'll give you the Breece Hall pick though, I did not think they would take a RB that high.

It also means the team is learning from last years mistakes scheme wise, at least on defense.

Yes, I think Ickey would have very likely been the pick. 

Still, it says something that they invested so much in CB this offseason, going against the conventional wisdom that this system doesn't value CBs. Bringing in DJ Reed and Sauce tells me that they thought their CB room needed some help and that our CB play last year was a significant contributing factor in our bottom of the league pass defense. 

The Hall pick didn't shock me because I thought not having another legit RB to complement Carter was one of the biggest holes on offense and Breece Hall (along with Kenneth Walker) was such a good RB prospect. Now Coleman, who is talented, can be that situational 3rd rusher that he is meant to be. The RB room is just so much stronger now. 

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1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

I've thought about the Sauce vs Ekwonu topic if Sauce wasn't there but I have a hard time envisioning that pick not being WR or Edge. If there is any truth to the Jets wanting JJ at 10 if Wilson was gone then I could have seen them going Wilson at 4 and JJ at 10

It sounds to me like they had Sauce above Ickey, Ickey above Wilson, and Wilson above JJ. 

Hence, I think they would have gone Ickey at 4, Wilson at 10, and then tried to trade back up for JJ as he fell, like they did. 

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7 minutes ago, slats said:

I don’t know what they would’ve done. My best guess is Wilson at #4 and JJ at #10, so thanks Texans! Me and JD were in tune this year. I really think he understood that his OL was just fine, what he lacked were playmakers. 

I doubt Wilson was gonna be the pick at #4. It was going to be Ekwonu if I had to bet on it. 

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Just now, slimjasi said:

It sounds to me like they had Sauce above Ickey, Ickey above Wilson, and Wilson above JJ. 

Hence, I think they would have gone Ickey at 4, Wilson at 10, and then tried to trade back up for JJ as he fell, like they did. 

That's entirely possible but once Tomlinson was signed the whole Ickey pick kinda went out the window for me. (And I was pro Ickey before Tomlinson)

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1 minute ago, Larz said:

Sauce is a twitch streamer!!

 

oh nooooooooooo

What?

Doesn't he know you can't play football and video games at the same time?

Future bust, fo sho

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2 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

That's entirely possible but once Tomlinson was signed the whole Ickey pick kinda went out the window for me. (And I was pro Ickey before Tomlinson)

People said the same thing about Sauce once we signed DJ Reed. I don't think Tomlinson was gonna prevent the Jets from drafting Ickey if they wanted to. 

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1 minute ago, slats said:

They’ve got these guys under control for five or six years if they want and, in the meantime, should both help jumpstart the team now.

Exactly. We needed to "Turbo Charge" the rebuild. No better way than geting 2 playmakers added on both sides of the ball. Now we are at a place where JD can add talent in Draft & FA that will complement what was done this year.

#1 WR, #1 RB

#1 CB, #3/4 DE

Add to that what some considered the #1 talent at TE in Ruckert.

 

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

It sounds to me like they had Sauce above Ickey, Ickey above Wilson, and Wilson above JJ. 

Hence, I think they would have gone Ickey at 4, Wilson at 10, and then tried to trade back up for JJ as he fell, like they did. 

 

Just now, Jetsfan4life90 said:

I doubt Wilson was gonna be the pick at #4. It was going to be Ekonwu if I had to bet on it. 

I think they let people believe this, so it’s okay with me if you want to continue believing it. Ekwonu doesn’t fit in with the first four guys that they did take, and they ignored the OL until the fourth. I think they purposely let the Becton talk fester to provide a smokescreen, but that they had never given up on him - which an OL pick at #4 would’ve been a clear indication of. 
 
If they might’ve gone that way then, again, thank you Texans! I’d really rather this didn’t turn into another icky Icky thread. 

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33 minutes ago, slats said:

Is how they both go completely against the narrative that we all know so well around here. Saleh’s system doesn’t value CBs, they draft them in the fifth round and turn them into Richard Sherman. This offense creates RBs, not the other way around. The system turns UDFAs into stars. And last year’s draft totally played into that narrative, taking a solid committee RB in the fourth, and a few DBs after that. 
 
JD went against type, too, allowing all you rubes who thought he’d take another first round OL only to find yourselves duped. 
 
Instead, they arguably grabbed the top players in the draft at both positions, using premium resources to do it. With Sauce, maybe the best player in the draft. What I like most about it is that it demonstrates flexibility from both the front office and the coaches. I have no idea how it came together, but they collectively decided that these two blue chip players were worth altering what they do. After signing a #1 CB in free agency, they supplant him with the fourth pick of the draft. A perfect fit in the scheme, too, just not the way they were expected to fill it. Jets went from one of the worst CB groups in the league to one of the best. While Sauce won’t change the defensive scheme, the Breece pick will change what they’ll do on offense, credit to LaFluer. They went from a pure RBBC to running thru a bell cow back. With Hall and MC1, it’ll be no rest for defenses when the Jets want to run the football, which they will be doing a lot. It’s risky to run your offense thru a specific RB, but the reward potential is big. 
 
Rigid coaches, those who put their scheme and philosophy above taking advantage of the talent at their disposal, bother me the most. I’m all about having a philosophy, but the coaches’ primary job is to get the most out of his players and, therefore, team. Here they demonstrated a willingness to change the way do things in order to obtain and utilize premium talents. It’s refreshing and exciting. 

Agree. Esp on Hall. 

Our offense may look more like Tennessee's than San Francisco's and with a developing QB, I am totes fine with that. 

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38 minutes ago, slats said:

Rigid coaches, those who put their scheme and philosophy above taking advantage of the talent at their disposal, bother me the most. I’m all about having a philosophy, but the coaches’ primary job is to get the most out of his players and, therefore, team. Here they demonstrated a willingness to change the way do things in order to obtain and utilize premium talents. It’s refreshing and exciting. 

Can I get an Amen!

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I'm with you for the most part, but you're the rube if you think Ickey wasn't the second choice at 4.

And that's another thing. I love this draft. I don't give a sh*t about agendas and who they were supposed to pick or what position or this or that. Some of ya'll think the world revolves around your opinion and being right. I don't give a sh*t if I was wrong cause they made some great choices. 

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Is Breece a rb who needs touches to get better throughout the game or does he do it from the get go? I still want to see Carter get carries as I think he's good as well, but Breece being first rb with 75+ yards and a td every game since prime Tomlinson is spectacular. Curious to see the split.

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7 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

I'm with you for the most part, but you're the rube if you think Ickey wasn't the second choice at 4.

Ooh, you edited after I reacted to this. 
 
I don’t think Ekwonu would’ve been the pick, but I also don’t care all that much because that’s talking hypothetically and I’m happier with reality at the moment. But as I said repeatedly before the draft, taking an OL at #4 does not improve the team this year. If anything, it probably weakens the team as he gets up to speed in their zone system. Meanwhile Sauce and Hall are the new #1 players at their respective positions from day one and each single-handedly transforms their group in a positive way. Wilson, JJ, and Ruckert all have home run potential, too. These are all guys drafted to be difference making play makers. An OL up top just doesn’t fit with the plan they actually did execute. 

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55 minutes ago, slats said:

....all you rubes who thought he’d take another first round OL only to find yourselves duped. 

This seems a bit harsh/inappropriate....:-k

Good post otherwise.  No real disagreements.  

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28 minutes ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

People said the same thing about Sauce once we signed DJ Reed. I don't think Tomlinson was gonna prevent the Jets from drafting Ickey if they wanted to. 

Except they didnt want to.  I dont see them taking OL given they didnt take him when they could.  If they were that down on Becton then they should have taken his replacement.  They obviously arent as over the top hating Becton like Jets fans here who want him gone.

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

This seems a bit harsh/inappropriate....:-k

Good post otherwise.  No real disagreements.  

Sorry, still basking in the afterglow. I had a lot of people mansplaining to me about how that was gonna be an OL, and some concern that JD might be that much of a meathead. Still very happy and relieved. :) 

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17 minutes ago, slats said:

Ooh, you edited after I reacted to this. 
 
I don’t think Ekwonu would’ve been the pick, but I also don’t care all that much because that’s talking hypothetically and I’m happier with reality at the moment. But as I said repeatedly before the draft, taking an OL at #4 does not improve the team this year. If anything, it probably weakens the team as he gets up to speed in their zone system. Meanwhile Sauce and Hall are the new #1 players at their respective positions from day one and each single-handedly transforms their group in a positive way. Wilson, JJ, and Ruckert all have home run potential, too. These are all guys drafted to be difference making play makers. An OL up top just doesn’t fit with the plan they actually did execute. 

I don't disagree. But I also think that Ekwonu is a guy that they looked at that can become a really good player, and if you got something for Becton, it wouldn't be the worse move in the world to upgrade that position (upgrade in terms of Becton not playing much last year).

I'm thrilled with the direction they went, and I'm looking forward to Becton coming on strong.

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1 hour ago, slats said:

With Hall and MC1, it’ll be no rest for defenses when the Jets want to run the football, which they will be doing a lot. It’s risky to run your offense thru a specific RB, but the reward potential is big. 

Michael Carter was a part of a committee in 2020 with Javonte Williams (at UNC), and both backs had impressive numbers: 

JW (5'10, 220): 1445 yards from scrimmage; 22 TDs
MC1 (5'8, 201) 1512 yards from scrimmage; 11 TDs

I don't think it can be stated enough that by adding Tomlinson and Becton to the OL; putting Conklin at the H-back/FB spot (the Kyle Juszczyk role), and then having a rotation of Uzomah/Ruckert, that we didn't just telegraph to the league that we are going to ram the ball down their throats.   Which in turn is going to allow Moore and Wilson to FEAST. 

Breece Hall (5'11, 217) is just icing on the cake.  He's a better Javonte Williams, and I think our coaching staff knows exactly how to use him. 

                     Hall   /   Williams
40:                  4.39 /    4.57
vert:                40   /     36
Broad Jump:   126 /    123

 

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10 minutes ago, slats said:

Sorry, still basking in the afterglow.

As we should, it was an excellent on-paper draft.  We should all be very happy right now.

10 minutes ago, slats said:

I had a lot of people mansplaining

Just a technical question, can a man "mansplain" to another man? 

I sorta thought that term was only applicable when men lecture women as if women were stupid and ignorant.

10 minutes ago, slats said:

to me about how that was gonna be an OL, and some concern that JD might be that much of a meathead. Still very happy and relieved. :) 

Glad you're happy.  I am as well.  The moves do appear to show that JD remains hopeful/faithful that Becton will be an opening day ready stud starter.  And he bought some "oh poop" insurance in Max late.  So good on both counts.

I think the "Becton is a big fat lazy slob and sucks" concept got alot of traction here at JN, leading alot of folks to think Tackle was a huge need (if Becton bombs again, those folks are likely right ultimately) to protect Wilson.  Clearly JD didn't see it that way.  

But if that narrative had been correct, and Becton was known in the building to be a likely 2022 problem, the idea of an O-lineman would be perfectly reasonable.  I guess I'm just not giving any awards away for guessing correctly how JD felt about Becton, I suppose.  Out here in fan land, it really was a "who knows, the draft will tell us how JD feels" type situation.

Knowing what we can infer now, the draft looks great, and hopefully Becton is the stud we hope he'd become at tackle this season, since JD has gambled/banked on that idea.

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it was never going to be Ekonwu. remember why he was even considered? because Becton was such a question mark we just had to replace him. well then that should make him the 4th pick no matter what. or Neal. 

ok so the pick is Gardner at 4. but replacing Becton is so high on there list then why not take one at 10. Green, Zion and Penning were still on the board. so the WR was more important than replacing Becton? so thats 2 positions more important than OT. 

then an Edge at 26 and a RB in rd 2. these are not the moves of a team who is so worried about there RT that it was even considered at 4. then a TE as a backup at 101. 

im not killing these picks, in fact i loved the draft. im just saying even if Gardner was rated so high that you had to have him at 4 you dont wait till 111 to draft a Tackle to replace Becton if that was ever a consideration to pick his replacement at 4.

 

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Just a technical question, can a man "mansplain" to another man? 

I sorta thought that term was only applicable when men lecture women as if women were stupid and ignorant.

Some of the condescending replies I got definitely had that feel, which is the meaning I was looking to convey. I have a feisty daughter, I know the definition, lol. 

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36 minutes ago, slats said:

Some of the condescending replies I got definitely had that feel, which is the meaning I was looking to convey. I have a feisty daughter, I know the definition, lol. 

Stop mansplaining daughters to me dude.

Lol, just kidding. :lol:

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2 hours ago, slats said:

Is how they both go completely against the narrative that we all know so well around here. Saleh’s system doesn’t value CBs, they draft them in the fifth round and turn them into Richard Sherman. This offense creates RBs, not the other way around. The system turns UDFAs into stars. And last year’s draft totally played into that narrative, taking a solid committee RB in the fourth, and a few DBs after that. 
 
JD went against type, too, allowing all you rubes who thought he’d take another first round OL only to find yourselves duped. 
 
Instead, they arguably grabbed the top players in the draft at both positions, using premium resources to do it. With Sauce, maybe the best player in the draft. What I like most about it is that it demonstrates flexibility from both the front office and the coaches. I have no idea how it came together, but they collectively decided that these two blue chip players were worth altering what they do. After signing a #1 CB in free agency, they supplant him with the fourth pick of the draft. A perfect fit in the scheme, too, just not the way they were expected to fill it. Jets went from one of the worst CB groups in the league to one of the best. While Sauce won’t change the defensive scheme, the Breece pick will change what they’ll do on offense, credit to LaFluer. They went from a pure RBBC to running thru a bell cow back. With Hall and MC1, it’ll be no rest for defenses when the Jets want to run the football, which they will be doing a lot. It’s risky to run your offense thru a specific RB, but the reward potential is big. 
 
Rigid coaches, those who put their scheme and philosophy above taking advantage of the talent at their disposal, bother me the most. I’m all about having a philosophy, but the coaches’ primary job is to get the most out of his players and, therefore, team. Here they demonstrated a willingness to change the way do things in order to obtain and utilize premium talents. It’s refreshing and exciting. 

IMO...the key to the success of this draft was the intensive interaction between JD-Saleh...and most importantly...their staffs...that refined their collaboration...into one that truly put forth the the best interests of the team building process.  It was a War Room on draft day...that had victory as it's goal and outcome.  The JD-Saleh team succeeded...it was mission accomplished. 

You could see the uniqueness of this collaboration...during the Combine Week.  When it was arranged for Saleh...and many of his staff...to stay at the Jets complex...and go through intensive film study and independent player evaluations...during Combine activities.  Some position coaches would then leave the complex...only to view activities for their position players.  And live video feeds were set up at the complex...to interview the players.  Never heard of anything like this happening before.   This was the clearest symbol for me...on how thorough the Jets Brain Trust cooperated...for the purpose of making this roster the best it could be....with what they had available.   

The success of Jets draft...was due to this unique collaboration.  I would not be surprised...in this copy-cat league...that other teams try something similar in the near future...in the hope of having the same success. 

 

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Sauce is perfect for our scheme though.  So I don't think that is Saleh being flexible about his scheme. Definitely being flexible about drafting them early. Although Saleh was on the team that drafted Ramsey early. He is on record as saying Ramsey took the Jags defense to a new level.

Edit: I did fall for Connor’s “the Jets want two number 2 CBs” though. That dude was smoke screen central. Got used like a dirty rag by the Jets FO.

The RB thing is so funny because all these WCO coaches draft RB early. 2nd year in a row that SF goes RB in the 3rd. It’s an old narrated from the Broncos days that doesn't want to die. Everyone still says it. So it sounds believable. I fell into the trap again. 

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8 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

No way can you mock Hall as being a better Javonte Williams. Williams was the best break tackling back his rookie season and Jr year in the entire NCAA. 

 

6F67BEA8-9EE8-497C-B444-4E9A48E8F7A6.jpeg

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