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Sauce Gardner contract taxes getting attention?


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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I doubt it. Ask one of the accountants here to be sure, but it seems to me that’d be fully deductible, same as if the agent was a 1099’d employee or a consultant or a similar business expense. Then again he’s not self-employed so maybe not. 

Generally… not deductible.   Think in terms of paying an employment agency.   BUT…fees on endorsements, commercials etc can be deducted. 

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10 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Professionally speaking…. Im surprised it took this long.  Playing in NY, NJ, CA etc… have a strong disadvantage.  

 

And yes…I’ve done tax returns for profesional athletes.      Politics aside, if my prediction is true, tax free states will have better sports teams in the future. 

Do you think - if there was even an appetite for all parties involved to do so - there’d be a way to skirt it, to have all the checks officially issued by the league in some way, just to even this out? States still get their $ based on how many games were played there, calculated somehow, but this way everyone pays the same rate?

States can & do make deals sometimes, don’t they (e.g. NY/NJ reciprocity)? It’d be worth it for the higher-tax states, so biggest money talent - the type paying most of their income taxes at the marginal rate - wouldn’t choose to play elsewhere; and the low/no tax states wouldn’t care since they’re otherwise getting nothing (or very little) anyway in terms of income taxes & they don’t lose anything anyway.

I can’t imagine players who signed deals in FL, TX, etc. would like it very much, though lol. 

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4 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Kansas City voters just overwhelmingly reapproved that tax too. It's been a big win for them re: city services. 

Yeah, great services .  First rate in the big cities.  Especially sanitation and safety 

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2 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Generally… not deductible.   Think in terms of paying an employment agency.   BUT…fees on endorsements, commercials etc can be deducted. 

Yeah that’s what I was thinking with my last sentence, since he’s an employee not self-employed, so it wouldn’t be a business expense on his football earnings. But that’d be different on agent commission on endorsement $ since he’s kinda self-employed for that income.

Those poor athletes. 

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25 minutes ago, Larz said:

You pay based on where the game is, not where you live

This is correct.  Not going to say how but I've seen check stubs and tax break downs for nfl players and each game is taxed based on where its played.

While its true if you're in NY you'll pay more taxes than a player in FL the discrepancy isn't as great as most believe it is.

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42 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

The point is that the guys playing in Florida, Texas, Vegas, etc. Keep a lot more of their pay. This plays out especially during FA. 

 

The rate of Taxation in CA and the Northeast is theft.

I’ve been saying this for year. Florida use to also have way cheaper housing but that’s gone out the window. We still have cheaper real estate taxes though. 

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5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Do you think - if there was even an appetite for all parties involved to do so - there’d be a way to skirt it, to have all the checks officially issued by the league in some way, just to even this out? States still get their $ based on how many games were played there, calculated somehow, but this way everyone pays the same rate?

States can & do make deals sometimes, don’t they (e.g. NY/NJ reciprocity)? It’d be worth it for the higher-tax states, so biggest money talent - the type paying most of their income taxes at the marginal rate - wouldn’t choose to play elsewhere; and the low/no tax states wouldn’t care since they’re otherwise getting nothing (or very little) anyway in terms of income taxes & they don’t lose anything anyway.

Very complex and I’m 3 wines in. 😂.  Suffice it to say playing in Miami vs NY does have an advantage but players pay taxes based on where games are played so its not so black and white.     

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6 minutes ago, Pac said:

This is correct.  Not going to say how but I've seen check stubs and tax break downs for nfl players and each game is taxed based on where its played.

While its true if you're in NY you'll pay more taxes than a player in FL the discrepancy isn't as great as most believe it is.

It is on their signing bonuses. So just on this signing bonus check alone, it’s already millions.

If Sauce just got a $25MM signing bonus (or however much it was), it seems he’d owe NJ ~9% on his income between $500K and $5MM ($400K) plus 10.75% on the last $20MM ($2.15MM) = just over $2.5MM total. If he was taken 3rd instead of 4th - and if he’d gotten the same contract - he’d get to keep that $2.5MM instead. 

Then on top of that there’s no more fully deducting his SALT so he also has to pay federal income taxes on that $2.5MM he paid to the state. 

@southparkcpa I’m guessing here, but do I have this right? Work through your wine buzz; this is important stuff here.

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1 hour ago, Dunnie said:
1 hour ago, Anthony Jet said:
What would the number be if he played for Miami ?

Only 4 game diff .. you pay where you play

Ya but isn't his signing bonus taxed by the state he got it in? Game checks sure, but his signing bonus was like $25M would be fully taxes at the moment he gets it. 37% fed + 10.75% nj + any local income tax (for example NYC is 4%). Add it all up and over 50% of his signing bonus goes to the gvmt. Then, of the money he has left, he pays 8% sales tax on anything he buys (even more on 'luxury' items), so there's ANOTHER 8%+ to uncle sam! And Biden says millionaires aren't paying their fair share and wants to raise tax rates for the rich even higher.

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It is on their signing bonuses. So just on this signing bonus check alone, it’s already millions.

If Sauce just got a $25MM signing bonus (or however much it was), it seems he’d owe NJ ~9% on his income between $500K and $5MM ($400K) plus 10.75% on the last $20MM ($2.15MM) = just over $2.5MM total. If he was taken 3rd instead of 4th - and if he’d gotten the same contract - he’d get to keep that $2.5MM instead. 

Then on top of that there’s no more fully deducting his SALT so he also has to pay federal income taxes on that $2.5MM he paid to the state. 

@southparkcpa I’m guessing here, but do I have this right? Work through your wine buzz; this is important stuff here.

Tldr brah

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It is on their signing bonuses. So just on this signing bonus check alone, it’s already millions.

If Sauce just got a $25MM signing bonus (or however much it was), it seems he’d owe NJ ~9% on his income between $500K and $5MM ($400K) plus 10.75% on the last $20MM ($2.15MM) = just over $2.5MM total. If he was taken 3rd instead of 4th - and if he’d gotten the same contract - he’d get to keep that $2.5MM instead. 

Then on top of that there’s no more fully deducting his SALT so he also has to pay federal income taxes on that $2.5MM he paid to the state. 

@southparkcpa I’m guessing here, but do I have this right? Work through your wine buzz; this is important stuff here.

I think that’s correct………. 

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Gonna start an expansion franchise in Mississippi and load up on free agents that don’t care if their children can read.

Can it be worse than NYC????  Don’t get me started.  NY is no haven of the over educated.  

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2 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I think that’s correct………. 

My guess, and I'm 1 stiff 7&7 in, is his CPA opted for the front loaded SB to take advantage of the blood red stock market and get in on big positions on the cheap. 

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1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

NFL really needs to do something about the salary cap to account for taxes.  

 

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

"This" Is Nonsense... media whores spewing their ignorance... 1 word for this... Accountant. 

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1 minute ago, southparkcpa said:

Can it be worse than NYC????  Don’t get me started.  NY is no haven of the over educated.  

I often have this conversation with my buddies and family who have migrated to FL.  You could give me a free decent house in FL and I would not move there.  I could give you 50 reasons but that's another thread.

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Just now, Pac said:

My guess, and I'm 1 stiff 7&7 in, is his CPA opted for the front loaded SB to take advantage of the blood red stock market and get in on big positions on the cheap. 

Or…that’s how all the high rookie contracts are structured every year since the slotted contracts started. They’re mostly signing bonus. Doesn’t matter what state, what the stock market’s doing, etc.

Plus the agent gets paid right away up front as well, and that’s really who’s negotiating the deal. No danger of the player renegotiating under a new agent, before the first deal is up, and then he doesn’t get paid for all of the rookie deal. 

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9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Gonna start an expansion franchise in Mississippi and load up on free agents that don’t care if their children can read.

 

7 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Can it be worse than NYC????  Don’t get me started.  NY is no haven of the over educated.  

TIL that children who can read are over educated.

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Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Or…that’s how all the high rookie contracts are structured every year since the slotted contracts started. They’re mostly signing bonus. Doesn’t matter what state, what the stock market’s doing, etc.

Plus the agent gets paid right away up front as well, and that’s really who’s negotiating the deal. No danger of the player renegotiating under a new agent, before the first deal is up, and then he doesn’t get paid for all of the rookie deal. 

I thought they decided whether to front load or spread out.

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1 minute ago, Pac said:

I often have this conversation with my buddies and family who have migrated to FL.  You could give me a free decent house in FL and I would not move there.  I could give you 50 reasons but that's another thread.

My brother moved to Tampa in 1990. His kids went to UF and FS. All 3 earn 6 figures and are not yet 35, highly educated and driven.   My experience in south has been similar.  

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5 minutes ago, Pac said:

I thought they decided whether to front load or spread out.

I’m sure they technically can - it seems to me it’s the full value & guaranteed amounts that are slotted - but it’s customary for the highest picks to get the overwhelming bulk of it in signing bonus on rookie deals. Towards the end of the round it’s less, until it gets closer to 50% signing bonus.

Here’s last year’s 1st round deals laid out, total value & signing bonus:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/29/how-much-2021-nfl-draft-picks-likely-to-earn.html

Just open the link & scroll down a bit; it’d be messy to paste it here.

Anyway, no agent is going to advise their clients to take money later instead of now, since I think they get a cut of what the player gets paid, not a cut of the contract that may or may not get paid fully or as-is.

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6 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

My brother moved to Tampa in 1990. His kids went to UF and FS. All 3 earn 6 figures and are not yet 35, highly educated and driven.   My experience in south has been similar.  

Not implying no successful people..  hell of 6 friends I have in Tampa, Naples, and Orlando all but 2 make more money than I do..  1 is a multi millionaire.  I'm just saying for me I have less than zero interest in living in that state.

I have however told the wifey that if I were to ever move south it would be in your state.  Both of us will probably always stay in ny though.  Not NYC, I have zero interest in living there either, in upstate ny.

 

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Just now, Pac said:

Not implying no successful people..  hell of 6 friends I have in Tampa, Naples, and Orlando all but 2 make more money than I do..  1 is a multi millionaire.  I'm just saying for me I have less than zero interest in living in that state.

 

I’d move there tomorrow if I didn’t have grandkids here.  

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45 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Professionally speaking…. Im surprised it took this long.  Playing in NY, NJ, CA etc… have a strong disadvantage.  

 

And yes…I’ve done tax returns for profesional athletes.      Politics aside, if my prediction is true, tax free states will have better sports teams in the future. 

Is this something new? No, so why isnt it already the case?

Doesnt seem to hurt other team in NY, just the Jets.  Mets, Yanks, Isles, Rangers, Devils, Knicks dont have a problem just the Jets.  There are tons of actors, musicians etc living in NYC or NJ, im not seeing it

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3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Is this something new? No, so why isnt it already the case?

Doesnt seem to hurt other team in NY, just the Jets.  Mets, Yanks, Isles, Rangers, Devils, Knicks dont have a problem just the Jets.  There are tons of actors, musicians etc living in NYC or NJ, im not seeing it

Remember when Lebron went to Florida because of taxes and then he wound up spending the same amount of time in California? 

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Is this something new? No, so why isnt it already the case?

Doesnt seem to hurt other team in NY, just the Jets.  Mets, Yanks, Isles, Rangers, Devils, Knicks dont have a problem just the Jets.  There are tons of actors, musicians etc living in NYC or NJ, im not seeing it

Couldn’t agree more.    TW for example moved to Florida.  Phil is basically in Florida but yes, some just pay the extra millions.  

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Taxes for those 8 or home games.

That would be a minor reason to bitch

I don’t know. Looking at that Hill contract (assuming the Jets & Dolphins offered nearly identical deals):

There’s some $35MM in signing & roster bonuses from 2022-2023. That carries a 0% state income tax rate since it’ll all be paid in FL and is therefore immune from any road games stuff. So he’s saving about $3.5MM in taxes there.

That’s $35MM of the $95MM on his contract (the final year is fluff; Mia isn’t paying him a non-guaranteed $45MM salary when he’s 32). $30MM of that remaining $60MM will also be taxed at 0% state income tax, since it’ll also be in FL. If he was in NY/NJ that’d be another few million. Take back a slight amount because he won’t have that 1 road game per year in Miami, like Jets players have, but it’s a negligible amt.

So just that amount alone, getting paid in FL not NY, he’s fully saving ~$6.5MM in after-taxes cash from 2022-2025 by signing with Miami instead of the Jets, and still has to pay federal taxes on that $6.5MM he’d be giving to NY or NJ state coffers if he was here.

So to make up for that discrepancy, the Jets would have to offer Hill about $10MM more fully guaranteed than Miami’s paying him.

(That’s aside from the personal part: the fact that he lives in Miami in the offseason anyway, independent of this deal). 

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9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don’t know. Looking at that Hill contract (assuming the Jets & Dolphins offered nearly identical deals):

There’s some $35MM in signing & roster bonuses from 2022-2023. That carries a 0% state income tax rate since it’ll all be paid in FL and is therefore immune from any road games stuff. So he’s saving about $3.5MM in taxes there.

That’s $35MM of the $95MM on his contract (the final year is fluff; Mia isn’t paying him a non-guaranteed $45MM salary when he’s 32). $30MM of that remaining $60MM will also be taxed at 0% state income tax, since it’ll also be in FL. If he was in NY/NJ that’d be another few million. Take back a slight amount because he won’t have that 1 road game per year in Miami, like Jets players have, but it’s a negligible amt.

So just that amount alone, getting paid in FL not NY, he’s fully saving ~$6.5MM in after-taxes cash from 2022-2025 by signing with Miami instead of the Jets, and still has to pay federal taxes on that $6.5MM he’d be giving to NY or NJ state coffers if he was here.

So to make up for that discrepancy, the Jets would have to offer Hill about $10MM more fully guaranteed than Miami’s paying him.

(That’s aside from the personal part: the fact that he lives in Miami in the offseason anyway, independent of this deal). 

I dont know these players tax rates.  None of us do.  I live in Florida and the state gets their money back in other ways, all things arent equal minus the state income tax.  

I'm friends with a stupid rich musician that can live anywhere in the country given hes a Brit.  He lived for years in NYC and then moved to Conn.  He makes more money than any of these athletes could dream of earning.  

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I'm friends with a stupid rich musician that can live anywhere in the country given hes a Brit.  He lived for years in NYC and then moved to Conn.  He makes more money than any of these athletes could dream of earning.  

It’s Michael Bolton, for those asking.

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

I dont know these players tax rates.  None of us do.  I live in Florida and the state gets their money back in other ways, all things arent equal minus the state income tax.  

I'm friends with a stupid rich musician that can live anywhere in the country given hes a Brit.  He lived for years in NYC and then moved to Conn.  He makes more money than any of these athletes could dream of earning.  

It’s pretty easy to see the players’ tax rates, actually. State tax rates are pretty public things, as are their contract amounts & structures. 

They pay taxes based on the state they’re in when earning it. In sports contracts - best I understand it - that means any bonus money is the home state, home game checks are the same, and road games they pay the tax rate for that road state. But even those road games’ higher rates (for those starting out in zero tax states like FL) aren’t that bad since they’re probably not going to reach the full marginal rate in states like CA unless they are making base salary amounts in serious excess of $500K/game or something, in which case they only pay the marginal rate on $ earned above that rate.

That’s all a bit too nuanced - it’s easy to figure out if you feel like spending the time - but the overwhelming bulk of what they’re making is in their home states. In Hill’s case (~$95MM effectively guaranteed through the 2025 season) about $65MM of it is earned in FL with 0% state income tax rate. If he signed here instead, he’d be paying either NY or NJ’s rate (call it 10% for easy math, since the overwhelming bulk of his income is at the state’s marginal rate). The road games even out closely enough no matter where he signs, so just look at those home state earnings. 

Then factor in further that he’s going to get more endorsement deals in his team’s state, and that, too will be taxed at 0% instead of ~10%. 

It’s a significant amount. That there are others making far more than that - and far less than that - is neither here nor there. On top of whatever else he makes in endorsements & more, the additional state tax alone, that he’d have paid to NY/NJ for his football playing income, which he now gets to fully keep instead of paying to the state, is statistically far more than most people earn in a lifetime (before taxes, at that). 

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Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

It’s pretty easy to see the players’ tax rates, actually. State tax rates are pretty public things, as are their contract amounts & structures. 

They pay taxes based on the state they’re in when earning it. In sports contracts - best I understand it - that means any bonus money is the home state, home game checks are the same, and road games they pay the tax rate for that road state. But even those road games’ higher rates (for those starting out in zero tax states like FL) aren’t that bad since they’re probably not going to reach the full marginal rate in states like CA unless they are making base salary amounts in serious excess of $500K/game or something, in which case they only pay the marginal rate on $ earned above that rate.

That’s all a bit too nuanced - it’s easy to figure out if you feel like spending the time - but the overwhelming bulk of what they’re making is in their home states. In Hill’s case (~$95MM effectively guaranteed through the 2025 season) about $65MM of it is earned in FL with 0% state income tax rate. If he signed here instead, he’d be paying either NY or NJ’s rate (call it 10% for easy math, since the overwhelming bulk of his income is at the state’s marginal rate). The road games even out closely enough no matter where he signs, so just look at those home state earnings. 

Then factor in further that he’s going to get more endorsement deals in his team’s state, and that, too will be taxed at 0% instead of ~10%. 

It’s a significant amount. That there are others making far more than that - and far less than that - is neither here nor there. On top of whatever else he makes in endorsements & more, the additional state tax alone, that he’d have paid to NY/NJ for his football playing income, which he now gets to fully keep instead of paying to the state, is statistically far more than most people earn in a lifetime (before taxes, at that). 

Tax rates are easy.  Write offs and offsets arent

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