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Moore Vs Wilson


BurntDice
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So I’ve been trying to think who is a better prospect Garrett Wilson or Elijah Moore? 
 

Wilson is a bit taller, but for me Moore is better. Super crisp route running, can find holes in zone with ease. Wilson may have a higher ceiling. 
 

I like both and hope that they become super stars. Who did you like better coming out and why?

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Moore was analytically a better prospect and I think a far safer bet to be a quality contributor coming out, but guys coming from loaded offenses like Wilson are really hard to evaluate on numbers alone and he was productive with good tools so I get the appeal.

I like that they can both play inside out. Hopefully the Jets have a 1-2 punch for the next decade.

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Wilson can jump and aggressively attacks the ball out of the air.   I think he might be a target for 50/50 balls.  Moore could add that as well but I think his issue when a defender was on him was waiting for the ball just a little.  
 

Wilson had some quick cuts and moves that might be special - need to see him against NFL CBs to know.  Moore seems to run better routes.  
 

Moore is really good.   I see him more as a slot with HR potential on every play. Everyone else in Jets world sees him as outside WR though lol.  

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I think Wilson is the better prospect because he’s more of a complete WR. Wilson is better at yac and can high point the ball. Moore’s character is exceptional though. I think he’s the kind of guy that will make everyone in that WR room better.

Wilson is better but not by much. I do believe Moore would have been drafted in the 1st this year. Maybe even back to back in that Olave slot. 

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21 hours ago, derp said:

Moore was analytically a better prospect and I think a far safer bet to be a quality contributor coming out, but guys coming from loaded offenses like Wilson are really hard to evaluate on numbers alone and he was productive with good tools so I get the appeal.

I like that they can both play inside out. Hopefully the Jets have a 1-2 punch for the next decade.

I agree that Moore at least short term will be a more consistent target. He’s just so good at getting open and has very solid hands. 
 

in 2-3 years? Who knows, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Wilson is better. He has more physical upside, but has to grow a bit in terms of beating press and getting open on a consistent basis. His route running is good, but not on moores level.  
 

Msybe I’m crazy, but I see a young drama free AB in Moore. 
 

Now if only Mims can step up that’ll be a hell of a trio 

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No reason to campare or choose. We luckily have both! Loved Moore last year, and Wilson was my favorite receiver in the draft. 

Both have similar traits. Moore can break more tackles.  Wilson can go get a higher contested pass. 

That's all I got. 

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1 hour ago, derp said:

Been continuing to think about this. Wide receiver prospects are complicated.

On a really high level, I think there are two big things that wide receivers can bring to the table - big play ability and the ability to produce on volume. I think to be a good pro you need to bring at least one of those things to the table, and the large majority of the truly special wide receivers in the league can do both of those things. There are a lot of ways you can do each of those things.

Guys can create big plays because they're big and fast enough and elite on the boundary so they're threats for deep passes, because they're fast so they're threats for deep passes, maybe both, because they're elite after the catch due to some combination of strength/speed/vision/change of direction, a mix of being downfield threats and good after the catch, or I'm sure there are thins I'm missing.

Being a volume threat can come via route running/quickness and/or size/contested ability and is usually paired with excellent hands. Volume guys can play out wide but increasingly they work out of the slot area.

 

Coming into the league, I think you either need to be really, really sure that a guy is going to bring one of those things to the table or ideally you hope that he can do both. Boils down to looking at a mix of traits and production.

If we want guys to be able to produce on volume, production is a key component of that. And I think the thing that's translated best is college market share of receiving production - the guy who had 1,000 yards on an offense that passed for 2,000 is more impressive than the guy who had 1,000 yards on an offense that passed for 5,000. If a guy's college didn't think they needed to run the passing offense through him, it's not impossible but difficult to get to the point that he's good enough that a pro offense is going to feel that way. And, if he's never been asked to be the go-to guy, how do we know that he's actually capable of it? Lots of hits, producing through defensive attention, etc.

Ultimately that gets really complicated for guys who have come from schools with elite receiver rooms - like Garrett Wilson. Ohio State was pretty loaded at wide receiver, probably three guys who go top 11 in their respective drafts. Wilson beat out Jameson Williams for a role at OSU and Williams went 12th after an ACL injury sustained at the end of a monster year at Alabama where he leapfrogged a guy who was supposed to be a first round pick for their targets. All that said - we genuinely don't know if Wilson is really capable of being the guy on an offense. Ohio State never asked him to shoulder a heavy load on their offense, and they didn't really need him to.

Not being the guy in college isn't something that disqualifies him from being the guy at the pro level, Justin Jefferson ran behind Ja'Marr Chase and is absolutely elite - but the flip side is I think even Jefferson had a higher proportion of LSU's passing yards than Wilson did OSU's. Maybe DK Metcalf, but he was a completely different level of freak athlete. We know Wilson can create explosive plays and produce as part of a good offense - and maybe that's all he needs to do on an offense that now has a decent amount of skill position talent, be a threat and put up some numbers. But I don't think we really have a good sense of his #1, elite receiver potential.

Moore honestly was a better size adjusted athlete coming out of college, he's just shorter and I don't think can win off the ground or in contested situations the way Wilson can. But Moore was an absolute volume monster his last year at Ole Miss AND created big plays. He came into the pros as a pretty ready made high volume slot weapon with big play upside, and I think he could've been a monster last year if he was on a good offense and stayed healthy. Slot guys with change of direction and good route running are kind of a cheat code for easy passing game yardage, and him being a vertical slot on top of that made him pretty dangerous. Wilson has the size, but in terms of being a productive pro Moore's a cleaner fit. Now the Jets played him inside and out, he was actually more productive outside (which gives him more upside and makes them a really interesting 1-2 punch as two guys with position versatility), and we don't know about him staying healthy.

But it's why I think Moore was a better bet to be a good pro, and probably a better prospect. Really the big knock was size, and he should be elite out of the slot as his floor, and I think is more prepared to be a primary passing game option. Hopefully they push each other. It'd be really fun to have a solid 1-2 punch that complements each other well for a while.

Great breakdown man. 
 

They definitely should compliment each other very well even though neither have the standard #1 elite wr metrics. 
 

I haven’t really looked into how the % share of college receptions translates to nfl ability. There are so many variables in this area that for me just make it difficult. It’s different from player to player I guess. There are guys like Wilson and to an extent Jameson Williams (who had to transfer out) that were on a star studded cast where the volume wasn’t funneled to one particular guy because there were always so many options available. 
 

There’s also guys like David Bell who had fantastic production with 90+ catches and  1200+ yards last year on a team which didn’t have nearly as much star power on offense. But with someone like him he may not have the speed to translate to be a true breakout performer at the next level. 
 

I can definitely see Moore being the consistent go to guy like you mentioned and Wilson may be feared more deep and can have more explosive plays, but maybe not as much volume. 

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1 hour ago, BurntDice said:

Great breakdown man. 
 

They definitely should compliment each other very well even though neither have the standard #1 elite wr metrics. 
 

I haven’t really looked into how the % share of college receptions translates to nfl ability. There are so many variables in this area that for me just make it difficult. It’s different from player to player I guess. There are guys like Wilson and to an extent Jameson Williams (who had to transfer out) that were on a star studded cast where the volume wasn’t funneled to one particular guy because there were always so many options available. 
 

There’s also guys like David Bell who had fantastic production with 90+ catches and  1200+ yards last year on a team which didn’t have nearly as much star power on offense. But with someone like him he may not have the speed to translate to be a true breakout performer at the next level. 
 

I can definitely see Moore being the consistent go to guy like you mentioned and Wilson may be feared more deep and can have more explosive plays, but maybe not as much volume. 

It’s actually college market share of yards and touchdowns. If you want to read about it the terms to look for would be dominator rating, especially age adjusted dominator rating. Translates pretty well.

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Garrett is a better prospect but Moore has a higher floor. Both I think have limited ceilings though which for as much as I think they are good, I know we still need that weapon that scares defenses like a DK metcalf who can grab anything in the air or a speedster like Tyreek. 
 

It’s like TY Hilton who was fantastic at getting open and had so many receptions - but I don’t think he scared anyone or took over games regularly. 
 

But to be fair I think if a TE emerges or Breece becomes Jonathan Taylor then this offense doesn’t necessarily need a tier 1 WR1 

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1 hour ago, Be_a_Jet said:

Garrett is a better prospect but Moore has a higher floor. Both I think have limited ceilings though which for as much as I think they are good, I know we still need that weapon that scares defenses like a DK metcalf who can grab anything in the air or a speedster like Tyreek. 
 

It’s like TY Hilton who was fantastic at getting open and had so many receptions - but I don’t think he scared anyone or took over games regularly. 
 

But to be fair I think if a TE emerges or Breece becomes Jonathan Taylor then this offense doesn’t necessarily need a tier 1 WR1 

Think you underrate Hilton a little. Led the league in receiving in 2016 and was averaging 16-17 yards per catch in his prime. Only guys north of 16 yards per catch and over 1,000 yards last year were Lockett, Chase, and Deebo. He was explosive and really good.

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15 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

Garrett is a better prospect but Moore has a higher floor. Both I think have limited ceilings though which for as much as I think they are good, I know we still need that weapon that scares defenses like a DK metcalf who can grab anything in the air or a speedster like Tyreek. 
 

It’s like TY Hilton who was fantastic at getting open and had so many receptions - but I don’t think he scared anyone or took over games regularly. 
 

But to be fair I think if a TE emerges or Breece becomes Jonathan Taylor then this offense doesn’t necessarily need a tier 1 WR1 

Oh I think both will turn out to be Tier 1 WR1s. Before his second quad Moore was playing at that level. And Wilson has the catch radius of a much larger receiver and can take anything to the house.

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8 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Oh I think both will turn out to be Tier 1 WR1s. Before his second quad Moore was playing at that level. And Wilson has the catch radius of a much larger receiver and can take anything to the house.

 Im definitely hopeful but also know it’s not make or break if they are elite WR1 or just standard WR1’s/Elite WR2s - only a few elite WR 1s in this league. Hopefully they will be though - at the very least they are light years beyond the prospects we used to draft like Devin Smith, Stephen Hill etc. Excited about them. 

22 hours ago, derp said:

Think you underrate Hilton a little. Led the league in receiving in 2016 and was averaging 16-17 yards per catch in his prime. Only guys north of 16 yards per catch and over 1,000 yards last year were Lockett, Chase, and Deebo. He was explosive and really good.

Maybe I’m underrating his impact - I just never felt he made the other team really scheme defenses around him the way teams scheme around Jamar Chase, Tyreek, Deebo, Hopkins etc. I agree he was really good and a WR1.  
 

When the schedule came out I also realized we don’t have anyone on our offense that scares the other team - although I think that will change - my guess is it’s our RB tandem of Breece and Carter will become the “tough” aspect to defend. So many ways this offense can grow with all these prospects Im excited - there’s going to be a superstar somewhere there I just don’t know who. 

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We have them both, to go along with corey davis who i think will perform better when not expected to be a #1 type wr.  And do not forget berrios, he was very good and much improved last year.

Just a vast improvement in wr talent (to go along with TE) on this team in just a couple of years.

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On 5/15/2022 at 2:21 PM, derp said:

Been continuing to think about this. Wide receiver prospects are complicated.

On a really high level, I think there are two big things that wide receivers can bring to the table - big play ability and the ability to produce on volume. I think to be a good pro you need to bring at least one of those things to the table, and the large majority of the truly special wide receivers in the league can do both of those things. There are a lot of ways you can do each of those things.

Guys can create big plays because they're big and fast enough and elite on the boundary so they're threats for deep passes, because they're fast so they're threats for deep passes, maybe both, because they're elite after the catch due to some combination of strength/speed/vision/change of direction, a mix of being downfield threats and good after the catch, or I'm sure there are thins I'm missing.

Being a volume threat can come via route running/quickness and/or size/contested ability and is usually paired with excellent hands. Volume guys can play out wide but increasingly they work out of the slot area.

 

Coming into the league, I think you either need to be really, really sure that a guy is going to bring one of those things to the table or ideally you hope that he can do both. Boils down to looking at a mix of traits and production.

If we want guys to be able to produce on volume, production is a key component of that. And I think the thing that's translated best is college market share of receiving production - the guy who had 1,000 yards on an offense that passed for 2,000 is more impressive than the guy who had 1,000 yards on an offense that passed for 5,000. If a guy's college didn't think they needed to run the passing offense through him, it's not impossible but difficult to get to the point that he's good enough that a pro offense is going to feel that way. And, if he's never been asked to be the go-to guy, how do we know that he's actually capable of it? Lots of hits, producing through defensive attention, etc.

Ultimately that gets really complicated for guys who have come from schools with elite receiver rooms - like Garrett Wilson. Ohio State was pretty loaded at wide receiver, probably three guys who go top 11 in their respective drafts. Wilson beat out Jameson Williams for a role at OSU and Williams went 12th after an ACL injury sustained at the end of a monster year at Alabama where he leapfrogged a guy who was supposed to be a first round pick for their targets. All that said - we genuinely don't know if Wilson is really capable of being the guy on an offense. Ohio State never asked him to shoulder a heavy load on their offense, and they didn't really need him to.

Not being the guy in college isn't something that disqualifies him from being the guy at the pro level, Justin Jefferson ran behind Ja'Marr Chase and is absolutely elite - but the flip side is I think even Jefferson had a higher proportion of LSU's passing yards than Wilson did OSU's. Maybe DK Metcalf, but he was a completely different level of freak athlete. We know Wilson can create explosive plays and produce as part of a good offense - and maybe that's all he needs to do on an offense that now has a decent amount of skill position talent, be a threat and put up some numbers. But I don't think we really have a good sense of his #1, elite receiver potential.

Moore honestly was a better size adjusted athlete coming out of college, he's just shorter and I don't think can win off the ground or in contested situations the way Wilson can. But Moore was an absolute volume monster his last year at Ole Miss AND created big plays. He came into the pros as a pretty ready made high volume slot weapon with big play upside, and I think he could've been a monster last year if he was on a good offense and stayed healthy. Slot guys with change of direction and good route running are kind of a cheat code for easy passing game yardage, and him being a vertical slot on top of that made him pretty dangerous. Wilson has the size, but in terms of being a productive pro Moore's a cleaner fit. Now the Jets played him inside and out, he was actually more productive outside (which gives him more upside and makes them a really interesting 1-2 punch as two guys with position versatility), and we don't know about him staying healthy.

But it's why I think Moore was a better bet to be a good pro, and probably a better prospect. Really the big knock was size, and he should be elite out of the slot as his floor, and I think is more prepared to be a primary passing game option. Hopefully they push each other. It'd be really fun to have a solid 1-2 punch that complements each other well for a while.

Great breakdown.  

I think the big problem lately has been the formation of super WR crops, where it's nearly impossible to determine how effective they are.  Like when Tua was in college (or Mac Jones), they could literally pick any of the top 4 and there would be a decent chance the guy would be open.  

I was looking at the OSU tape, last year and this year, and the sheer amount of talent they have at WR is ridiculous.  Smith-Njigba, Wilson, Olave, (and Williams the year before) are all match up nightmares in the sense that you aren't covering them one on one.  I was trying to scout Wilson/Olave this year, and I almost felt like they played at half speed at times because they knew the other guy was getting the ball.  You would see lazy routes because it was a quick pass the other way, and the defense couldn't really stop it anyway.  

Furthermore, these colleges are so good at creating open receivers via scheme that it's almost impossible to scout.  I wasn't a big fan of Olave, because I felt like they schemed him open with mesh concepts and crossing routes on RPOs.  

In regards to Wilson/Moore, I think they are extremely similar players.  Wilson is better at stacking his defender, and making sideline catches.  Moore is better at coming out of his route stems, and more balanced in change of directions.  However, they both win by setting up their defenders well, and are very nuanced route runners.  They both attack the hips of defenders really well, and run a full route tree.  

The sad thing is that Mims fits perfectly as the third WR in this group, because of his size/speed, but he didn't seem motivated at all.

I think the Shanahan system somewhat favors duplicity in their WR skills.  We had the Rams with Kupp/Woods, both route technicians that got open because they could set up the defenders.  Deebo/Ayuik are more YAC monsters that can create havoc with the ball in their hands.  Cincy has a bit more traditional set up with Higgins/Chase but Chase was a generational talent with ties to the QB, so I'm not sure how much that played into the decision.  

I think the aspect that will really be interesting is the "triangle offense" if you will, between the two WRs plus the RB.  If teams stack the box, these guys can really hurt you down the field, and if they play back, then Breece Hall could be a star.  

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20 hours ago, win4ever said:

Great breakdown.  

I think the big problem lately has been the formation of super WR crops, where it's nearly impossible to determine how effective they are.  Like when Tua was in college (or Mac Jones), they could literally pick any of the top 4 and there would be a decent chance the guy would be open.  

I was looking at the OSU tape, last year and this year, and the sheer amount of talent they have at WR is ridiculous.  Smith-Njigba, Wilson, Olave, (and Williams the year before) are all match up nightmares in the sense that you aren't covering them one on one.  I was trying to scout Wilson/Olave this year, and I almost felt like they played at half speed at times because they knew the other guy was getting the ball.  You would see lazy routes because it was a quick pass the other way, and the defense couldn't really stop it anyway.  

Furthermore, these colleges are so good at creating open receivers via scheme that it's almost impossible to scout.  I wasn't a big fan of Olave, because I felt like they schemed him open with mesh concepts and crossing routes on RPOs.  

In regards to Wilson/Moore, I think they are extremely similar players.  Wilson is better at stacking his defender, and making sideline catches.  Moore is better at coming out of his route stems, and more balanced in change of directions.  However, they both win by setting up their defenders well, and are very nuanced route runners.  They both attack the hips of defenders really well, and run a full route tree.  

The sad thing is that Mims fits perfectly as the third WR in this group, because of his size/speed, but he didn't seem motivated at all.

I think the Shanahan system somewhat favors duplicity in their WR skills.  We had the Rams with Kupp/Woods, both route technicians that got open because they could set up the defenders.  Deebo/Ayuik are more YAC monsters that can create havoc with the ball in their hands.  Cincy has a bit more traditional set up with Higgins/Chase but Chase was a generational talent with ties to the QB, so I'm not sure how much that played into the decision.  

I think the aspect that will really be interesting is the "triangle offense" if you will, between the two WRs plus the RB.  If teams stack the box, these guys can really hurt you down the field, and if they play back, then Breece Hall could be a star.  

Mims was a huge disappointment last season. Surprising how he seemed to take 8 steps back from year 1. all jokes aside I hope he surprises all of us this year. 

 

I, along with @The Crusher have decided to back the Mims train for 1 more season. He is going to surprise us all... right Crush? I think crusher is still setting up the Mims fan page, he may be too busy to respond.

we are back baby!!!! 

#FreeDenzel

#ReleaseTheMimsBeast

 

DentalPessimisticFireant-max-1mb.gif.e6dc79ff507a27823c2270cc4b1d4982.gif

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22 minutes ago, Stark said:

Mims was a huge disappointment last season. Surprising how he seemed to take 8 steps back from year 1. all jokes aside I hope he surprises all of us this year. 

 

I, along with @The Crusher have decided to back the Mims train for 1 more season. He is going to surprise us all... right Crush? I think crusher is still setting up the Mims fan page, he may be too busy to respond.

we are back baby!!!! 

#FreeDenzel

#ReleaseTheMimsBeast

 

DentalPessimisticFireant-max-1mb.gif.e6dc79ff507a27823c2270cc4b1d4982.gif

The truly silly part of this is if he actually shows up and plays well  he could very well put that unit over the top; 

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1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

The truly silly part of this is if he actually shows up and plays well  he could very well put that unit over the top; 

The true and silly part is we will be sharing a glass of whiskey and either be hurt.... again... or will be celebrating - being serious here, if he goes back to making the catches he did in year 1 and becomes the big WR we need, yes it will be great

LFGM

lol

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On 5/20/2022 at 4:16 PM, Stark said:

Mims was a huge disappointment last season. Surprising how he seemed to take 8 steps back from year 1. all jokes aside I hope he surprises all of us this year. 

 

I, along with @The Crusher have decided to back the Mims train for 1 more season. He is going to surprise us all... right Crush? I think crusher is still setting up the Mims fan page, he may be too busy to respond.

we are back baby!!!! 

#FreeDenzel

#ReleaseTheMimsBeast

 

DentalPessimisticFireant-max-1mb.gif.e6dc79ff507a27823c2270cc4b1d4982.gif

Mims to me looked like the kid that was forced to go to school with a fever because parents couldn't take a day off from work.  He looked so disinterested, that I honestly thought he had long Covid or something.  

I think it goes a long way if he shows commitment, because his skill set compliments Wilson/Moore very well.  Having 3 threats to deep passes, can really change the defense, especially with his size.  I still believe in him, and I think the Jets do as well, because this was a good year to invest in a late round WR.  

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as a guy who loved both coming out of college, I think Wilson has higher upside as an overall WR. 
 

But it’s hard not to feel safer betting on Moore who we’ve all seen flash in a jets uniform already 

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On 5/14/2022 at 10:54 AM, BurntDice said:

I agree that Moore at least short term will be a more consistent target. He’s just so good at getting open and has very solid hands. 
 

in 2-3 years? Who knows, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Wilson is better. He has more physical upside, but has to grow a bit in terms of beating press and getting open on a consistent basis. His route running is good, but not on moores level.  
 

Msybe I’m crazy, but I see a young drama free AB in Moore. 
 

Now if only Mims can step up that’ll be a hell of a trio 

Mims is the variable needed to complete the equation! While I like Corey Davis and his underwhelming stats, JD can easily jettison him next year if Mims breaks out. Saves $10m

Year 3 Denzel. It’s now or never.

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On 5/19/2022 at 10:21 AM, Beerfish said:

We have them both, to go along with corey davis who i think will perform better when not expected to be a #1 type wr.  And do not forget berrios, he was very good and much improved last year.

Just a vast improvement in wr talent (to go along with TE) on this team in just a couple of years.

At least Lefleur now has a solid/healthy OL with 4 quality receivers and 2 quality RBs and 2 quality all-around TEs to game plan with.

Last year he had an OL in disarray (Fant moving to LT and Moses learning the system), a bad TE group, an undersized rookie RB who wasn’t a bell cow and no real outside threat at WR 1.

Things have certainly changed in 1 offseason. Tomlinson and Becton back. CJ and Conklin, Breece Hall with Carter and Wilson taking pressure off Davis. Solid WR room with Berrios, Moore, Davis and Wilson. Lefleur cooking with Natural Gas this year… none of that LP crap!

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5 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Mims is the variable needed to complete the equation! While I like Corey Davis and his underwhelming stats, JD can easily jettison him next year if Mims breaks out. Saves $10m

Year 3 Denzel. It’s now or never.

I feel the same way. If mims can some how break out then having Moore, Wilson, mims, and berrios all on cheap contracts gives a ton of flexibility to spend on the rest of the team 

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