Mike Francesca: Not impressed with Saleh

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, LongTimeJetFan said:

Check his latest podcast episode. It was his response to listener mailbag question about Saleh. 

Somehow I doubt he said "sensed immaturity from he and his staff from afar."

What about him is immature.  As I said unless he meant as far as experienced as a HC.  Not in the exact words in your posts, not as an insult as insinuated in your post.  

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I am an avowed Saleh hater because of his hack benching of Mike White and what that means for the supposed meritocracy inside 1 Florham Park. All else is window dressing. The Browns are +1800 to get to the Super Bowl, despite my haphazard relationship with LSAT prep. 

Meritocracy? 4 INTs versus Buffalo wasn't enough to say the Jets should go back to the guy with the much higher upside?  Listen, I like Mike White.  Decent backup, good team guy, seems to understand the system and be a loyal soldier.  But this idea that the Jets are sitting on some 27 year old lottery ticket that nobody has discovered since he came into the league with Dallas in 2018 is just odd.  The guy had one all-time epic game where he dinked and dunked on Cincinnati's linebackers all afternoon and two of his top three pass-catchers were RBs (Michael Carter led the Jets in receiving yards that day, Ty Johnson was third).  I'm eager to see White keep developing in his 5th NFL season, but not as much as I am to see how the more talented guy does going from Year 1 to Year 2.  I don't think the Jets are purposely keeping a better QB on the bench.  I believe they know EXACTLY what they have in Mike White just like they knew what they had in the heyday of Brooks Bollinger, a fun, exciting feel-good story with a very low ceiling.

 

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Meritocracy? 4 INTs versus Buffalo wasn't enough to say the Jets should go back to the guy with the much higher upside?  

They didn’t bench White for Zach. They benched White for Flacco.

[Hal N of Provo]

[slats]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I am of the belief that Steve Young is doing a lot of advocating for Zach Wilson behind the scenes and is his de facto handler who tells Joe Douglas what he needs to do to keep Team Wilson happy. It is likewise my belief that Team Wilson wanted Zach to be a 49er, and Douglas has to make concessions to get Team Wilson to allow their darling child to be here in the first place. The Niners spent a ton to get to #3 with the hope that Team Wilson could force Douglas’ hand. Beck’s weird signing was one of those concessions.

Wait, you actually believe this? 
 
The 49ers trade up was announced while the Jets were at Zach Wilson’s pro day, falling deeply in love. I know Steve Young was advocating for the kid from his grandpa’s school to go to his favorite pro team, too, but who the **** is he to tell anyone anything? How were they going to force the Jets’ hand, outside of some Elway/Manning deal where he refuses to play for the team who drafted him (spoiler alert: they didn’t do that)? The NFL draft conscripts players to the teams who chose them. The Jets don’t have to make any concessions, they bought the player for $35M or so fully guaranteed. 
 
The Beck hire was certainly unusual, but I think that move was the result of the Knapp tragedy and LaFluer wanting to sit up in the booth, not next to Zach. I doubt I have to tell you that Zach had a horrendous start, and that Beck was brought in to settle down his yipcoughs. The timing worked, because Beck’s private business is pretty slow during the NFL season, and with a weak QB class coming up, it wasn’t going to get too busy that December, either. Honestly, I think this has the makings of a pretty genius move, the kind you’d be praising Belichick for up and down. They bring in Zach’s private teacher, he’s now on the inside seeing exactly what the Jets are looking for from the player, his contract with the Jets finishes up and Zach goes back to spend the offseason with his newly tutored tutor. If you weren’t trying to rip everything they do, you might be able to see it. Against CBA rules, they pretty much get to coach Zach all year. That’s lil’ Bill loophole magic right there. 

[Embrace the Suck]

That's because Saleh doesn't come with fries or a drink. Nor can Saleh be super sized.

[GKnight83]

Why is it that almost all of those covering the Jets are complete idiots?

[CSNY]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I am an avowed Saleh hater because of his hack benching of Mike White and what that means for the supposed meritocracy inside 1 Florham Park. All else is window dressing. The Browns are +1800 to get to the Super Bowl, despite my haphazard relationship with LSAT prep. 

TOm. Serious question What is it you see in Mike White that makes you think he can be a winning NFL starting QB. To me he can be a decent backup who’s flaws will be exposed the longer he plays (think Pat Ryan but with a worse arm) Counting on him to be a consistent winner if Zach goes down for any length of time is not a good idea.
I would have kept Johnson over Flacco but neither one is the answer Next year Jets need to draft a developmental QB as that position sorely needs to be upgraded 

[Matt39]

I like Saleh. I think he gets it. He see's Becton for example needs to be off the roster, which is good. We'll see if he ramps up camp this year though. 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Wait, you actually believe this? 
 
The 49ers trade up was announced while the Jets were at Zach Wilson’s pro day, falling deeply in love. I know Steve Young was advocating for the kid from his grandpa’s school to go to his favorite pro team, too, but who the **** is he to tell anyone anything? How were they going to force the Jets’ hand, outside of some Elway/Manning deal where he refuses to play for the team who drafted him (spoiler alert: they didn’t do that)? The NFL draft conscripts players to the teams who chose them. The Jets don’t have to make any concessions, they bought the player for $35M or so fully guaranteed. 
 
The Beck hire was certainly unusual, but I think that move was the result of the Knapp tragedy and LaFluer wanting to sit up in the booth, not next to Zach. I doubt I have to tell you that Zach had a horrendous start, and that Beck was brought in to settle down his yipcoughs. The timing worked, because Beck’s private business is pretty slow during the NFL season, and with a weak QB class coming up, it wasn’t going to get too busy that December, either. Honestly, I think this has the makings of a pretty genius move, the kind you’d be praising Belichick for up and down. They bring in Zach’s private teacher, he’s now on the inside seeing exactly what the Jets are looking for from the player, his contract with the Jets finishes up and Zach goes back to spend the offseason with his newly tutored tutor. If you weren’t trying to rip everything they do, you might be able to see it. Against CBA rules, they pretty much get to coach Zach all year. That’s lil’ Bill loophole magic right there. 

Indeed, I do believe that Steve Young didn’t stop advocating for Zach the second the Jets drafted him. Young was on the Michael Kay Show every week in the lead-up to the draft trying to hold back projectile vomit when discussing the possibility of Zach Wilson ending up on the Jets (mentioning repeatedly how his life would have been different if he wasn’t able to escape to the USFL after being drafted by the Buccaneers). The lone attenuating factor that Young talked about, that made him feel a little better about the Jets situation? The presence of Greg Knapp. Behold, the details of this interview Young gave in October, discussing how much he loved the Jets/Wilson situation post-Knapp (who died in July):

”He was around for a long time, he coached me, Peyton Manning, Michael Vick, Matt Ryan… he knew the NFL”, […]

However, with Knapp’s tragic loss, the flaws in Jets’ plan to groom their young quarterback were exposed, Young says:

“That just now exposed a plan that was not in place until Greg was heading back to New York for training camp,” Young said. 

“I would say there was a plan that I felt comfortable with, with Greg there, but became very uncomfortable when Gregg had his tragic accident.” 

https://jetsxfactor.com/2021/10/13/steve-young-ny-jets-staff-naked-right-now/

 

Beck, another member of the BYU Cosa Nostra, was hired around two weeks later, on November 1, coincidentally the day after Mike White shredded the Bengals.
 

So, yes, I would say that Steve Young hates that Zach is on the Jets and I would say that there was pressure on Douglas to not draft Zach Wilson, which obviously Douglas refused. Saleh—notorious obfuscater that he’s shown himself to be, said that the idea of hiring Beck was something they thought about in the weeks prior, when Zach went back to Beck to work on his mechanics during his injury rehab. Given that timeline, one could conclude that Team Wilson wanted a Knapp replacement to come in and triage Wilson’s career, and Beck was the guy. 

[T0mShane]

15 minutes ago, CSNY said:

TOm. Serious question What is it you see in Mike White that makes you think he can be a winning NFL starting QB. To me he can be a decent backup who’s flaws will be exposed the longer he plays (think Pat Ryan but with a worse arm) Counting on him to be a consistent winner if Zach goes down for any length of time is not a good idea.
I would have kept Johnson over Flacco but neither one is the answer Next year Jets need to draft a developmental QB as that position sorely needs to be upgraded 

It’s not that I think Mike White is, or ever will be, a great player. It’s that he was a competitive player who provided a spark in a lost season, whom teammates clearly responded to, and he got knifed by Douglas and Saleh for the sole purpose of preserving Zach Wilson’s eggshell-fragile confidence and squished-grape mush feelings. The handling of White exposed Saleh as a gutless fraud afraid to stand up for his players, and it sets poor precedent for a locker room whose coach preaches an insipid “All Gas No Breaks” mantra, but operates like every game is preseason and he’s going to do anything that management tells him to do. 

[UntouchableCrew]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 Young was on the Michael Kay Show every week in the lead-up to the draft trying to hold back projectile vomit when discussing the possibility of Zach Wilson ending up on the Jets

https://jetsxfactor.com/2021/10/13/steve-young-ny-jets-staff-naked-right-now/

 

"After an entire offseason marveling at the New York Jets coaching staff philosophy, Steve Young seems to have changed his mind."

From the very article you posted...

Obviously, having a tried and true QB coach on staff that everyone loved tragically die threw a monkey wrench into the plans here.

I don't buy that Steve Young as any influence over anything.

The timing of the Beck hire being the day after Mike White balled out is interesting though.

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The timing of the Beck hire being the day after Mike White balled out is interesting though.

If you’re a young coaching staff getting your brains smashed in every week, and you just watched how awesome your team can look when *your plan* gets executed at a baseline level, you gotta start asking yourself what you can do to get your anointed QB1 to play at a Mike White/Josh Johnson level. I read a stat yesterday that Zach Wilson put up the worst completion percentage of any qualifying QB on passes under (iirc) 15 yards, and it wasn’t close. The offense he currently plays in, obviously, features those short throws. 

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

They didn’t bench White for Zach. They benched White for Flacco.

Even worse indicator of whats thought of Mike Whites abilities 

And durability.  

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Even worse indicator of whats thought of Mike Whites abilities 

And durability.  

Because this group has shown such an excellent eye for QB talent otherwise

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Because this group has shown such an excellent eye for QB talent otherwise

Excuse me, what other QB talent has this group evaluated other than the QBs on the roster today?  That they have on their resume to prove they are Incapable?  

Do we make the same claim for the Cowboys and every GM for passing on White 4+ times in his draft?  

 

[RevisIsland610]

I have my doubts about Saleh also. He talks a good game but he often looked like a deer in headlights last year. All gas no brakes, my ass. 

[slats]

41 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Indeed, I do believe that Steve Young didn’t stop advocating for Zach the second the Jets drafted him. Young was on the Michael Kay Show every week in the lead-up to the draft trying to hold back projectile vomit when discussing the possibility of Zach Wilson ending up on the Jets (mentioning repeatedly how his life would have been different if he wasn’t able to escape to the USFL after being drafted by the Buccaneers). The lone attenuating factor that Young talked about, that made him feel a little better about the Jets situation? The presence of Greg Knapp. Behold, the details of this interview Young gave in October, discussing how much he loved the Jets/Wilson situation post-Knapp (who died in July):

”He was around for a long time, he coached me, Peyton Manning, Michael Vick, Matt Ryan… he knew the NFL”, […]

However, with Knapp’s tragic loss, the flaws in Jets’ plan to groom their young quarterback were exposed, Young says:

“That just now exposed a plan that was not in place until Greg was heading back to New York for training camp,” Young said. 

“I would say there was a plan that I felt comfortable with, with Greg there, but became very uncomfortable when Gregg had his tragic accident.” 

https://jetsxfactor.com/2021/10/13/steve-young-ny-jets-staff-naked-right-now/

 

Beck, another member of the BYU Cosa Nostra, was hired around two weeks later, on November 1, coincidentally the day after Mike White shredded the Bengals.
 

So, yes, I would say that Steve Young hates that Zach is on the Jets and I would say that there was pressure on Douglas to not draft Zach Wilson, which obviously Douglas refused. Saleh—notorious obfuscater that he’s shown himself to be, said that the idea of hiring Beck was something they thought about in the weeks prior, when Zach went back to Beck to work on his mechanics during his injury rehab. Given that timeline, one could conclude that Team Wilson wanted a Knapp replacement to come in and triage Wilson’s career, and Beck was the guy. 

I mean, no offense, but all I have for that is a big, so what? I know Young wanted Wilson on the 49ers, but the 49ers never approached the Jets about the second pick in the draft. They made their move to the #3 spot when it was already fairly apparent that Zach was going to be the Jets’ guy. There was no forcing anybody’s hand at that point, unless Wilson was willing to refuse to play for the Jets - a thing that could’ve happened! It didn’t.  
 
If Joe Douglas gives two ****s about what Steve Young has to say about anything, he should be fired right now. He holds no power. He’s a goofy mouthpiece. John Beck was already Zach’s private coach, Zach was struggling immensely, so they brought in his private coach. The BYU connection isn’t shocking there, either, but Beck coaches a lot of other guys, too. And then, of course, John Beck is no longer on the Jets payroll… 

As conspiracy theories go, this one is extremely weak sauce. The Jets were desperate to help Zach succeed and their solution coincided with something Steve Young liked? Wow, okay. We all liked the Gregg Knapp hire. I agree that these coaches probably thought this job was going to be easier than it turned out to be, which is also not a shock. 
 
And Saleh, notorious obfuscator? Just lol. I appreciate that you don’t keep your agendas hidden. 

[slats]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Because this group has shown such an excellent eye for QB talent otherwise

Hall of Famer Mike White was available to every team in the league for the pittance of a fifth round pick and an offer sheet. No one called. Maybe we should let that one go at some point. 

[derp]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Because this group has shown such an excellent eye for QB talent otherwise

This does kind of fly in the face of the idea that SF wanted Wilson, no? Unless they’re also bad QB evaluators?

I still view drafting early QB’s as throwing crap against the wall and seeing what sticks and think teams are largely terrible at it but the whole Wilson White thing is simpler than the knot you’ve twisted yourself into.

Jets drafted a QB based on physical tools - Douglas clearly values arm strength, this offense requires mobility, and traits based drafting is what NFL teams use when deciding who to select early - and college production playing against a soft schedule behind an absolutely dominant line of 24-25 year olds playing against college kids after getting back from their missions. They then stuck him into a terrible situation he wasn’t prepared for and decided to let him take his lumps.

And Mike White just isn’t very good. He caught a little magic and if he’d hung onto it I think he would’ve kept playing, but we’ll never know what would’ve happened if he kept playing well because he didn’t.

I love Wilson’s physical tools, I was very early on the “holy crap this guy is talented” train as like a mid first round pick when nobody was talking about him, and he continued to rise. You dig in more and the offensive line and stuff was a flag. He’s also clearly a little weird and awkward which just makes it so much easier to bang on him. But plenty of good quarterbacks are weird in different ways, and he’s weird in a way that I think he’s pretty committed to football. So who knows. It was nice that he stopped turning the ball over late last year and if he works out he’s going to be really fun to watch stylistically. We just hope for the best at this point.

I also think the season hinging on Wilson is kind of nonsense honestly. If the team is good enough around him then they can win games and at least they finally have a situation to bring a young QB into and not absolutely crush his soul, or a vet and try to be a win now group. The rookie QB deal is huge, if you get league average play on a good team you’re a contender. Rams got to a Super Bowl with Goff who was a bust and then replaced him and won one. Eagles built a team with a rookie QB that was so good they won a SB with his backup who’s done nothing since but will never pay for a drink in Philly again. They’re not going to be that good this year but a few things break right and they get out of some contacts and that can be a legitimate conversation next year. That obviously requires hitting on their other picks but if that happens this thing gets interesting very quickly.

[tfine]

If you’re a young coaching staff getting your brains smashed in every week, and you just watched how awesome your team can look when *your plan* gets executed at a baseline level, you gotta start asking yourself what you can do to get your anointed QB1 to play at a Mike White/Josh Johnson level. I read a stat yesterday that Zach Wilson put up the worst completion percentage of any qualifying QB on passes under (iirc) 15 yards, and it wasn’t close. The offense he currently plays in, obviously, features those short throws. 

I’m am going to end this debate now. Josh Johnson/Mike White/Joe Flacco have a combined 20+ years of NFL experience to Zach Wilson’s 13 games. Which means they’ve had multiple NFL training camps and offseasons and offensive playbooks to study and perfect, work on there footwork…etc. these guys came in and executed a game plan that’s they’ve probably seen a million times before. So it’s really no surprise that they were executing the game plan better than a rookie would. When Zach learns this as well he will be a star.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[tfine]

It’s not that I think Mike White is, or ever will be, a great player. It’s that he was a competitive player who provided a spark in a lost season, whom teammates clearly responded to, and he got knifed by Douglas and Saleh for the sole purpose of preserving Zach Wilson’s eggshell-fragile confidence and squished-grape mush feelings. The handling of White exposed Saleh as a gutless fraud afraid to stand up for his players, and it sets poor precedent for a locker room whose coach preaches an insipid “All Gas No Breaks” mantra, but operates like every game is preseason and he’s going to do anything that management tells him to do. 

I really don’t understand what your basing this on..it’s quite clear you have such an agenda against Saleh, Zach and Joe D that you are scouring the web for negative articles and interviews to back your agenda and posting them.






Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[UntouchableCrew]

37 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you’re a young coaching staff getting your brains smashed in every week, and you just watched how awesome your team can look when *your plan* gets executed at a baseline level, you gotta start asking yourself what you can do to get your anointed QB1 to play at a Mike White/Josh Johnson level. I read a stat yesterday that Zach Wilson put up the worst completion percentage of any qualifying QB on passes under (iirc) 15 yards, and it wasn’t close. The offense he currently plays in, obviously, features those short throws. 

I mean, without question. I don't know if it was the "yips" or whatever but he was very clearly atrociously bad on short throws last year. There was a period during the middle of the season where he was basically unplayable.

I think his confidence was rocked after getting shellacked Weeks 1-3 and he didn't really get his ish together until late in the season when he settled in a bit. Not the most encouraging sign but I'm hopeful a year of experience learning the system and adjusting to NFL defenses has him looking much better.

But there's definitely a "worst case scenario" where he's a talented head case who will struggle to hit baseline competence and if that plays out it will be very curious to see how Saleh and Douglas play the situation. Frankly I think going into the season with Flacco and White as your backups is a mistake. I really think this team is closer to being a playoff contender with competent QB play and if I'm Douglas and/or Saleh I want to make sure I can demonstrate that progress to Woody even if it means admitting we whiffed on the Wilson 2nd overall.

[T0mShane]

25 minutes ago, slats said:

I mean, no offense, but all I have for that is a big, so what? I know Young wanted Wilson on the 49ers, but the 49ers never approached the Jets about the second pick in the draft. They made their move to the #3 spot when it was already fairly apparent that Zach was going to be the Jets’ guy. There was no forcing anybody’s hand at that point, unless Wilson was willing to refuse to play for the Jets - a thing that could’ve happened! It didn’t.  
 
If Joe Douglas gives two ****s about what Steve Young has to say about anything, he should be fired right now. He holds no power. He’s a goofy mouthpiece. John Beck was already Zach’s private coach, Zach was struggling immensely, so they brought in his private coach. The BYU connection isn’t shocking there, either, but Beck coaches a lot of other guys, too. And then, of course, John Beck is no longer on the Jets payroll… 

As conspiracy theories go, this one is extremely weak sauce. The Jets were desperate to help Zach succeed and their solution coincided with something Steve Young liked? Wow, okay. We all liked the Gregg Knapp hire. I agree that these coaches probably thought this job was going to be easier than it turned out to be, which is also not a shock. 
 
And Saleh, notorious obfuscator? Just lol. I appreciate that you don’t keep your agendas hidden. 

For sure, it is a big “so what?” Douglas can choose to ignore Steve Young, or the Wilsons, or whomever he wants. But some of the decisions around Zach’s development have been weird, and clearly they were unsettling to Young, whom we know has the ear of the Wilson family. Were I Douglas, however, I’d probably welcome the advice of a Hall of Fame quarterback who also serves as the intermediary between my team and the Wilson family, I guess? The alternative is that I entrust my career to the advisement of Rob Calabrese and Matt LaFleur’s younger brother? Who would you listen to?

[Dunnie]

Have you not seen Whiplash with Miles Teller?

Lol ... nice one... and indisputable fiction.

... was a great movie and as a drummer myself can say that the guys playing in that thing had real chops.

But story was fiction.

[T0mShane]

23 minutes ago, derp said:

This does kind of fly in the face of the idea that SF wanted Wilson, no? Unless they’re also bad QB evaluators?

I still view drafting early QB’s as throwing crap against the wall and seeing what sticks and think teams are largely terrible at it but the whole Wilson White thing is simpler than the knot you’ve twisted yourself into.

Jets drafted a QB based on physical tools - Douglas clearly values arm strength, this offense requires mobility, and traits based drafting is what NFL teams use when deciding who to select early - and college production playing against a soft schedule behind an absolutely dominant line of 24-25 year olds playing against college kids after getting back from their missions. They then stuck him into a terrible situation he wasn’t prepared for and decided to let him take his lumps.

And Mike White just isn’t very good. He caught a little magic and if he’d hung onto it I think he would’ve kept playing, but we’ll never know what would’ve happened if he kept playing well because he didn’t.

I love Wilson’s physical tools, I was very early on the “holy crap this guy is talented” train as like a mid first round pick when nobody was talking about him, and he continued to rise. You dig in more and the offensive line and stuff was a flag. He’s also clearly a little weird and awkward which just makes it so much easier to bang on him. But plenty of good quarterbacks are weird in different ways, and he’s weird in a way that I think he’s pretty committed to football. So who knows. It was nice that he stopped turning the ball over late last year and if he works out he’s going to be really fun to watch stylistically. We just hope for the best at this point.

I also think the season hinging on Wilson is kind of nonsense honestly. If the team is good enough around him then they can win games and at least they finally have a situation to bring a young QB into and not absolutely crush his soul, or a vet and try to be a win now group. The rookie QB deal is huge, if you get league average play on a good team you’re a contender. Rams got to a Super Bowl with Goff who was a bust and then replaced him and won one. Eagles built a team with a rookie QB that was so good they won a SB with his backup who’s done nothing since but will never pay for a drink in Philly again. They’re not going to be that good this year but a few things break right and they get out of some contacts and that can be a legitimate conversation next year. That obviously requires hitting on their other picks but if that happens this thing gets interesting very quickly.

Wilson is obviously extremely talented, but the question, for me, was whether or not the Jets were the right place for a guy with his specific needs to come to and maximize his talents. He seems like a nice, sheltered dude from Utah who doesn’t strike me as an alpha leader type, and that’s kinda unsettling, because at some point Zach is going to have to grab this team by the balls, and he’s just got a bunch of Justin Bieber to his personality. I guess I agree that it’s not Zach or Bust, but making that transition to a Garoppolo/Bridgewater is going to be a mess if it becomes necessary. And their plan to avoid that is Rob Calabrese and lots of prayer.

[T0mShane]

25 minutes ago, tfine said:

 

I really don’t understand what your basing this on..it’s quite clear you have such an agenda against Saleh, Zach and Joe D that you are scouring the web for negative articles and interviews to back your agenda and posting them.






Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Are you referencing the Steve Young thing? That was in direct response to someone asking me what Steve Young said in reference to the Zach Plan

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Because this group has shown such an excellent eye for QB talent otherwise

Mike White is another mediocre back-up quality QB who had a flash-in-the good game.  Just like Kellen Clemens, Greg McElroy, Geno Smith, Mike Vick, etc, and that’s just the guys I’ve seen on the Jets.  He was, and never will be, this potential diamond-in-the-rough that you think he might be/might have been if it wasn’t for the big bad Jets.  What you saw in Buffalo is what you see in practice.  Sh*t, it’s what you saw in training camp and pre-season.  He’s had 4 years to show coaches across 2 teams differently.

F the record, if I thought he was more, I’d have ZERO problems letting him steal the job, regardless of any player’s draft status.

[slats]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

For sure, it is a big “so what?” Douglas can choose to ignore Steve Young, or the Wilsons, or whomever he wants. But some of the decisions around Zach’s development have been weird, and clearly they were unsettling to Young, whom we know has the ear of the Wilson family. Were I Douglas, however, I’d probably welcome the advice of a Hall of Fame quarterback who also serves as the intermediary between my team and the Wilson family, I guess? The alternative is that I entrust my career to the advisement of Rob Calabrese and Matt LaFleur’s younger brother? Who would you listen to?

I guess I still just don’t get your point. Every one of these high profile guys has an entourage of sorts in his (and often his team’s) ear. I suspect the struggles on the coaching staff were largely because they were completely green. When Knapp died, it’s not like there were a lot of guys they could just bring in at that point, so they just didn’t. Who knows if any Beck talk started back then? 
 
Regardless of the hows or whys, I think it was a sneaky clever move. Steve Young may have things to say, but I strongly doubt that he “tells” anyone associated with the team to do anything, outside of maybe Zach, himself. For his part, Zach appears to be all in with this damned franchise, so I don’t know how much SY’s hatred is effecting him. Also pretty sure Joe Douglas isn’t entrusting his career to anyone’s advisement outside of maybe Ozzie Newsome. 

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean, without question. I don't know if it was the "yips" or whatever but he was very clearly atrociously bad on short throws last year. There was a period during the middle of the season where he was basically unplayable.

I think his confidence was rocked after getting shellacked Weeks 1-3 and he didn't really get his ish together until late in the season when he settled in a bit. Not the most encouraging sign but I'm hopeful a year of experience learning the system and adjusting to NFL defenses has him looking much better.

But there's definitely a "worst case scenario" where he's a talented head case who will struggle to hit baseline competence and if that plays out it will be very curious to see how Saleh and Douglas play the situation. Frankly I think going into the season with Flacco and White as your backups is a mistake. I really think this team is closer to being a playoff contender with competent QB play and if I'm Douglas and/or Saleh I want to make sure I can demonstrate that progress to Woody even if it means admitting we whiffed on the Wilson 2nd overall.

IMO, they got hoodwinked (as we all did) by Zach beating the Titans and decided he could handle the whole enchilada, which was ultimately unfair to Zach, and it was only in the last five games where they slapped the training wheels back on and gave him the Tecmo Bowl playbook to work through some things. One would hope that they approach this season with a better, more realistic sense of what Zach can handle and increase his workload in a more pragmatic, progressive manner. It will be interesting to see what they do with the backup situation this season. Hughes ventured that they might try to trade White at some point in the offseason and just roll with Flacco and a developmental type at QB3

[derp]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Wilson is obviously extremely talented, but the question, for me, was whether or not the Jets were the right place for a guy with his specific needs to come to and maximize his talents. He seems like a nice, sheltered dude from Utah who doesn’t strike me as an alpha leader type, and that’s kinda unsettling, because at some point Zach is going to have to grab this team by the balls, and he’s just got a bunch of Justin Bieber to his personality. I guess I agree that it’s not Zach or Bust, but making that transition to a Garoppolo/Bridgewater is going to be a mess if it becomes necessary. And their plan to avoid that is Rob Calabrese and lots of prayer.

Yeah, I don’t think the Jets were the right place, at least as of last year. Recent developments are encouraging at least, the talent level is increasing and it’s a pretty QB friendly system.

I think the alpha leader grab the team by the balls thing is pretty overrated. Aaron Rodgers is up there with the weirdest dudes in the league and has been at the top end of QB play for a while. I can’t imagine anyone on that team finds him relatable. Herbert seems like a pretty quiet dude and is tearing up the league. Mayfield got the alpha leader tag, busted, and now nobody wants him. Wilson needs to earn respect by working hard and playing well, that’s his only path to being respected because he is definitely a little quirky, and he at least seems to at least have enough self awareness to understand that’s how he needs to carve out his space instead of just forcing his personality on the locker room.

[Matt39]

What exactly did he say? Was this his opinion or was he speaking on behalf of some anonymous person in the league?

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

What exactly did he say? Was this his opinion or was he speaking on behalf of some anonymous person in the league?

Opinion.

[BigB]

Zach was a rookie learning the system and all but one of his skilled players were vets many of which were not even catching the ball. What do you expect him to do yell at vets to just catch the damn ball. Mike White had a great game and the running backs caught the ball that day mostly on check downs. The Bengals clearly were in a let down game against a QB starting his first game.

Mike White is still on the roster and is not even the backup QB, yet. Can we just wait and see what Zack brings in year 2 without criticizing the coaching staff and GM. Hopefully Zack comes through and Mike White gets us a high draft pick. If Zack struggles and Mike White becomes the real deal then so be it. I am sure the coaching staff and GM (and us fans) just wants to win long term and make the best decisions for the team based what they see on the field and not based upon some conspiracy theory.

[Dunnie]

IMO, they got hoodwinked (as we all did) by Zach beating the Titans and decided he could handle the whole enchilada, which was ultimately unfair to Zach, and it was only in the last five games where they slapped the training wheels back on and gave him the Tecmo Bowl playbook to work through some things. One would hope that they approach this season with a better, more realistic sense of what Zach can handle and increase his workload in a more pragmatic, progressive manner. It will be interesting to see what they do with the backup situation this season. Hughes ventured that they might try to trade White at some point in the offseason and just roll with Flacco and a developmental type at QB3

Tbh.. this is my greatest fear ... will Saleh trust Zach enough to allow him to become great ... or will he be Dilferized.