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A Few Observations about JOE DOUGLAS


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29 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Im amazed that JD gets this much heat, really makes you wonder what people want.

This is a guy who inherited a team whose coach and GM arent even IN THE NFL after leaving this franchise. They arent guys who "struggled their first time in a new role" or had some bad luck.  They have literally been blackballed by the league, that is how poor they were at their job. Since 2012 the Jets have drafted the "least valuable players in the entire NFL" (link below).   "Every one of the Jets drafts from 2012-2020 had a negative value score."  That is almost an impossible level of futility - if we threw darts at a mock draft, the results would be better.

On top of that JD wasnt even allowed to hire his first coach and had to work with Adam Gase, who as mentioned above, isnt the Colts or Rams OC, he is coaching highschool football.  

When JD took over, he turned the only players with any value into future assets that can actually help the team win games in 2022-2025.  What did you want him to do, get 3 firsts for Adams?  Get a first and a second for Darnold - a bottom 5 QB in the entire league?

This team has been completely and totally devoid of offensive talent.  We had Jeff Smith playing a prominent role in our offense and now we have Moore, Davis, Wilson, Breece, Michael Carter.  We started seasons with Jonathan Harrison, Brian Winters and Alex Lewis starting.   Now we have an OL with multiple players having probowl potential. 

The guy inherited a complete and utter mess.  Instead of playing to the fans or to our moronic owner, he didnt make splash signings, made excellent trades for future assets and may actually have built a foundation for us to build on.  Really not sure what people expect.

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2022/04/23/new-york-jets-least-nfl-draft-value-since-2012/

I am now on board with this although his 1st draft was a complete disaster and colored my opinion. He has done much better.  If Zach can be at least "transitory talented", this team can be competitive.  If Zach shlts the bed.... we're done.

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some good points.  i think douglas is doing a good job but i'm also from missouri so show me.  those first free agents were pretty much a wash because he was joining gase's team and so gase probably had some influence on who to sign.  and it's not like there was much downside.  the money, even if high, was only for one season and it's not like there were a lot of players to chose from.  the first draft is still woring itself out.  if becton comes back strong then this draft will be much better.  and maybe mims and zuniga can turn things around.  the second draft was very good.  this third draft sounds outstanding but they still have to get on the field.  and no matter how good the players are they still need to play as a team.  it should be a pretty exciting season.

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17 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

What ******* heat?  The team has 15 wins in the three years he has been here.  It's nice to give him a pass for that first year, but they got 7 of the 15 that year!  That is with an extra game last season.  

I like Douglas and I like his "process."  On the other hand, acting like he has succeeded because he had a good draft on paper is typical of this board.  I like what he has done, but we need wins.  I am not one of the guys thinking Wilson has to be a stud for the guy to keep his job, but they need a cohesive plan if he sucks.   

It also astonished me that the board wants to jump up and down crying about pff and Jason saying the trade ups were a mistake.  You can't praise the guy for his "process" and then give him gold stars for going against it.  More than Wilson, I think he banked a  bunch of his rep on Johnson and Hall.  They'd better be good because they gave up the chance to draft a bunch of players that I liked with those deals.  The board loves it because the board was super enamored with Johnson, Hall and Ruckert,  I get what he wanted to do and I give him credit for the conviction on those players, but they got those three instead of #35, #38, #69, #146 and #163.  The process is great, he's banking on the draft, RBs are not high value players - but when he gives up picks and puts a ton of capital in an RB, the board blindly supports him.

I like what he is done and I am excited (finally) for the season.  Still, they need to win games.  Saying that he "had a four year plan" based on the fact that he couldn't put a winner on the field his first three years sounds a lot like the 2018 preseason when I was hearing I should relax because it was the first year of the rebuild - 2015 they signed vets (Johnson's fault!) 2016 they had to overcome that, 2017 they had to clean out the dead wood and then 2017 they had the QB!  It's all bullsh*t.  You try to win every year, but I appreciate them not mortgaging the future to do it.  Still a few actual wins would be nice. 

Wholeheartedly agree with everything outside of the bold. I don't agree that the two are mutually exclusive. I think trading up at the right price for the right player is part of the process. Not trading away premium picks for big names and bigger contracts is also part of the "process".

I also think that JD knew that he already had a mostly full TC roster, and that if he continued to simply take players, he'd eventually have to get rid of them anyway - so rather trade up for quality.

As fans of the Jets who have been bad at so many positions for so many years, the mentality is always quantity>quality, but for years I've been toying with the idea that better teams know when to take quality over quantity. That's not to say that the Jets are a good team right now, but it's to say that he knows from his own experiences in Balt and Philly that there isn't only one way to approach the draft. The best strategy is blending the two to allow for flexibility when it's necessary. 

For the most part, I like what JD has done. He's definitely the best GM we've had in a long time, but again that's not saying much. However, it won't mean anything if it doesn't translate into Ws. And right now, the Jets record with JD as GM is absolutely horrific.

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How good was the 2nd draft really?   They got WIlson and his ability remains to be seen. Vera-Tucker seems good, but he's a ******* guard.  At 14!  Moore was the 3rd pick in the 2nd round and he looks very good, but he has been hurt.  A bunch.  Same for Carter.  Good, but hurt often.  All those DBs and S/LBs?   They had jobs and snaps, but I don't think any of them proved anything special.  At this time last year people were still singing his praises for Becton over Wirfs and Mims was being compared favorably to Claypool, PIttman and Van Jefferson.  I heard that Hall is a true #1 corner.  First round value!  The 2021 draft looks good so far, but that perception can change pretty quickly.

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47 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Wholeheartedly agree with everything outside of the bold. I don't agree that the two are mutually exclusive. I think trading up at the right price for the right player is part of the process. Not trading away premium picks for big names and bigger contracts is also part of the "process".

I also think that JD knew that he already had a mostly full TC roster, and that if he continued to simply take players, he'd eventually have to get rid of them anyway - so rather trade up for quality.

As fans of the Jets who have been bad at so many positions for so many years, the mentality is always quantity>quality, but for years I've been toying with the idea that better teams know when to take quality over quantity. That's not to say that the Jets are a good team right now, but it's to say that he knows from his own experiences in Balt and Philly that there isn't only one way to approach the draft. The best strategy is blending the two to allow for flexibility when it's necessary. 

For the most part, I like what JD has done. He's definitely the best GM we've had in a long time, but again that's not saying much. However, it won't mean anything if it doesn't translate into Ws. And right now, the Jets record with JD as GM is absolutely horrific.

I agree completely.  The math nerds aren't always right.  They don't really take into account the interview process, the way having certain players will impact others.  We had a ton of picks.  Did we even want all those bodies in camp?  For the most part, I understand why Douglas does things.  That is part of what I like about him.  Still, giving him credit for things that haven't succeeded yet, seems wrong.  We need to win.  Will we?  It remains to be seen.

People tend to look at our selections as hits no matter what.  I can give an example.  An ugly one nobody likes to remember.  Hackenberg.  I hated that pick with all of my being.  Still, when I read the fluff pieces, I was willing to give Maccagnan the benefit of the doubt.  Hackenberg was supposed to have an NFL body and arm and the articles said he was pro ready.  I thought, wIth a coach that adapted to his QB, like Gailey it might work.  They needed somebody that they could hand the job to since the Fitzpatrick debacle was ongoing.  Mac even seemed smart for passing on Lynch.  I reluctantly began to accept that maybe they knew something I didn't.   Think about it, we didn't trade up and we got to use our 1st on the tiny linebacker!  Looking back, we all know I (and almost everybody else) was right in the first place, and it was a moronic selection.   It was obvious as early as mini-camp and certainly by the time they had to put their tail between their legs and sign Fitzpatrick.  Still during that offseason and for years afterwards people were treating that pick like a win in 3D chess. 

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3 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

If we are 4-13 again, Zach craps the bed and JD is entering year 5 of a 6 year deal, I look forward to all this kumbaya about "process"...

I find it highly unlikely that everything collapses this year.  On Wilson I’m highly skeptical, but the other 52 spots on the roster look pretty solid.  There should be enough there to suggest Douglas has been doing his job well and this team should be able to win games and not get blown out in losses.  

If that doesn’t happen then sure, Douglas belongs on the hot seat. I just don’t see it going in that direction based on the makeup of the roster. 

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26 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

How good was the 2nd draft really?   They got WIlson and his ability remains to be seen. Vera-Tucker seems good, but he's a ******* guard.  At 14!  oore was the 3rd pick in the 2nd round and he looks very good, but he has been hurt.  A bunch.  Same for Carter.  Good, but hurt often.  All those DBs and S/LBs?   They had jobs and snaps, but I don't think any of them proved anything special.  At this time last year people were still singing his praises for Becton over Wirfs and Mims was being compared favorably to Claypool, PIttman and Van Jefferson.  I heard that Hall is a true #1 corner.  First round value!  The 2021 draft looks good so far, but that perception can change pretty quickly.

I see this a lot.  Critical of drafting a Guard at 14, but totally okay with drafting a RT instead of a LT at 11 the year before when we needed a LT very much.

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9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I see this a lot.  Critical of drafting a Guard at 14, but totally okay with drafting a RT instead of a LT at 11 the year before when we needed a LT very much.

I don't have a problem with the AVT pick.  Still, it was a trade up for a guard.  A guard in the top half of the first round is supposed to be a beast and I'm not even sure how good he will be yet.  I find your second clause amusing.  I assume you mean he had to take Becton because Wirfs is the RT?  1.  Based on style, I'd say Becton is as much a RT as Wirfs.  2.  Fant is an LT.  How good of one can always be debated, but I would argue that the 2020 NYJ needed a RT more than an LT.   

The Vikings used the 1st they got from us on Christian Darrisaw.  He is an LT and probably has been better than AVT and Becton so far.  I'm not knocking the decision as a mistake, I am knocking it as being considered a can't miss hit.  They got Darrisaw and #66 and #86 for AVT and #143

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54 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I find it highly unlikely that everything collapses this year.  On Wilson I’m highly skeptical, but the other 52 spots on the roster look pretty solid.  There should be enough there to suggest Douglas has been doing his job well and this team should be able to win games and not get blown out in losses.  

If that doesn’t happen then sure, Douglas belongs on the hot seat. I just don’t see it going in that direction based on the makeup of the roster. 

I'm with you on this.  HOWEVER, if the worst does happen, I see planes with banners on the horizon and immense pressure on Woody to not allow JD to select another QB

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Still during that offseason and for years afterwards people were treating that pick like a win in 3D chess. 

Who are these people? There were certainly a camp of believers but most were skeptical of the pick (IIRC) and it became clear it was a disaster very quickly.

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5 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I'm with you on this.  HOWEVER, if the worst does happen, I see planes with banners on the horizon and immense pressure on Woody to not allow JD to select another QB

I don't think this will happen but this sort of thing is exactly why I think it's weird Douglas didn't go out and get a real veteran QB. If Wilson crapped the bed I wouldn't want Flacco and Mike White being the guys I was depending on to show everyone the progress the team has made.

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2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

What ******* heat?  The team has 13 wins in the three years he has been here.  It's nice to give him a pass for that first year, but they got 7 of the 13 that year!  That is with an extra game last season.  

I like Douglas and I like his "process."  On the other hand, acting like he has succeeded because he had a good draft on paper is typical of this board.  I like what he has done, but we need wins.  I am not one of the guys thinking Wilson has to be a stud for the guy to keep his job, but they need a cohesive plan if he sucks.   

It also astonished me that the board wants to jump up and down crying about pff and Jason saying the trade ups were a mistake.  You can't praise the guy for his "process" and then give him gold stars for going against it.  More than Wilson, I think he banked a  bunch of his rep on Johnson and Hall.  They'd better be good because they gave up the chance to draft a bunch of players that I liked with those deals.  The board loves it because the board was super enamored with Johnson, Hall and Ruckert,  I get what he wanted to do and I give him credit for the conviction on those players, but they got those three instead of #35, #38, #69, #146 and #163.  The process is great, he's banking on the draft, RBs are not high value players - but when he gives up picks and puts a ton of capital in an RB, the board blindly supports him.

I like what he is done and I am excited (finally) for the season.  Still, they need to win games.  Saying that he "had a four year plan" based on the fact that he couldn't put a winner on the field his first three years sounds a lot like the 2018 preseason when I was hearing I should relax because it was the first year of the rebuild - 2015 they signed vets (Johnson's fault!) 2016 they had to overcome that, 2017 they had to clean out the dead wood and then 2018 they had the QB!  It's all bullsh*t.  You try to win every year, but I appreciate them not mortgaging the future to do it.  Still a few actual wins would be nice. 

Obviously win-loss is the metric used to judge a GM but its not that simple and I kinda of think you agree as the point about the 2015-2017 seaons is exactly my point.  Id rather we take a slower approach and "tank" in 2020 rather then force ourselves to a 6-10 season as opposed to 2-14. What is the difference there, especially if we had to overpay or make shorter term decisions to get that 4 wins?

Im also completely on board with both the AVT tradeup as well as Breece.  This team is devoid of talent and JD acquired enough resources to then be more aggressive if a player came up that they loved, which is exactly what happened.  I dont think a calculated risk is a deviation from a long term plan.  If we had less assets, then Id imagine he wouldnt have been as aggressive, essentially giving up a top 100 player to get Breece, but we had the picks so the risk is lessened.

I get that this team needs to win, 100%, I just am happy that he didnt mortgage anything in order to grab a couple meaningless wins on a bad team, while also growing roster depth.  

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1 hour ago, BCJet said:

Obviously win-loss is the metric used to judge a GM but its not that simple and I kinda of think you agree as the point about the 2015-2017 seaons is exactly my point.  Id rather we take a slower approach and "tank" in 2020 rather then force ourselves to a 6-10 season as opposed to 2-14. What is the difference there, especially if we had to overpay or make shorter term decisions to get that 4 wins?

Im also completely on board with both the AVT tradeup as well as Breece.  This team is devoid of talent and JD acquired enough resources to then be more aggressive if a player came up that they loved, which is exactly what happened.  I dont think a calculated risk is a deviation from a long term plan.  If we had less assets, then Id imagine he wouldnt have been as aggressive, essentially giving up a top 100 player to get Breece, but we had the picks so the risk is lessened.

I get that this team needs to win, 100%, I just am happy that he didnt mortgage anything in order to grab a couple meaningless wins on a bad team, while also growing roster depth.  

I think we are in almost total agreement.  I don't disagree with most of what is posted in this thread.  I just think there are reasons to criticize the guy.  Put yourself in May 2016, just after the draft.  Maccagnan, the reigning exec of the year, had drafted Lee who was a plus athlete and seemed a good fit for what Bowles was doing.  Hackenberg I already discussed.  Jordan Jenkins actually was a decent pick.  Brandon Shell was a tackle that warranted starts in the NFL, though many probably overrated him.  Meanwhile, he had Leonard WIlliams coming off a good year, Devin Smith coming back (he was supposed to be a steal!) and Mauldin was the king of all fluff piece topics.  They were coming off a 10-6 season.  There were reasons to believe. 

Looking back.  Devin Smith was brittle and never played.  Hackenberg a horror.  Leonard WIlliams solid, but not exactly able to move the needle.  Lee had no instincts and Mauldin was a slug and that draft was pathetic.  Still, in May of 2016 the future seemed bright.

I am glad that Douglas had the conviction to move up and construct the team this way.  Making the chalk pick or being married to the analytics guys is not going to get you ahead.  I was okay with Maccagnan having the conviction to make the moves he did. In the end Maccagnan's moves sucked.  Let's see how Douglas turns out.

 

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7-9 (his first, partial, year that no one seems to hold him accountable for, so he also gets no credit for it either).

2-14

4-13

I think his offseason was pretty good.

But as a GM, it ultimately comes down to wins and losses.  Not hot air.

He needs to produce alot more wins in 2022 IMO, to keep getting more cool-seat leeway for his lengthy, languid rebuild.

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The body of work for a GM extends beyond the crap shoot that is the draft. 

For example, right now one of our best defensive players - JFM (highest graded Jet's defensive player according to PFF) was a waiver wire pick up.  In fact JD picked up multiple DEs, and traded one for a draft pick to SF (Willis), and got serviceable play out of Basham.  No draft pick involved and we got the equivalent of a 1st rounder in JFM.  Value out of thin air!

There are so many examples of good GMing to point to in JD tenure.  It's ok to be skeptical until wins happen... but I fear we'd be hard pressed to find greater competency in the next GM.  The best we could hope for is the next GM is "luckier."

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5 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

That cat has ninety nine problems but eating mice aint one. 

My friends have nicknamed her "The Bowling Ball with legs." She kills rodents (occasionally) but doesn't eat them - which I know is hard to believe.

It's true - because she is so lazy, she literally will watch a mouse cross the floor, and she watches it, and nothing moves except her neck. I've told her spectating is NOT part of the lease agreement. (I live way out in the woods.) She'll camp out next to a mole hole on the lawn for hours, waiting until some really dumb rodent exits right into her paws. She also kills but doesn't eat them, either, just leaves them where I can step on the corpse in bare feet in the middle of the night.

And no, I don't overfeed her. She was an abuse/neglect case as a young cat that I took in about 8 years ago. When she hit adulthood and kept gaining poundage, I took her to the vet, and they reviewed what food I was feeding her, how much, and ran about $1100 in tests - and they are totally stumped as to why she's a blimp. No hormonal, glandular/organ issues apparent - she's just passed through puberty (got spayed) and kept growing widthwise. It's sad she's going to have the "big one," or have her liver or kidneys eventually go, as she's a gentle sweetheart. But even being able to go outside at will, she is no couch potato - she's the couch.

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21 minutes ago, Bungaman said:

My friends have nicknamed her "The Bowling Ball with legs." She kills rodents (occasionally) but doesn't eat them - which I know is hard to believe.

It's true - because she is so lazy, she literally will watch a mouse cross the floor, and she watches it, and nothing moves except her neck. I've told her spectating is NOT part of the lease agreement. (I live way out in the woods.) She'll camp out next to a mole hole on the lawn for hours, waiting until some really dumb rodent exits right into her paws. She also kills but doesn't eat them, either, just leaves them where I can step on the corpse in bare feet in the middle of the night.

And no, I don't overfeed her. She was an abuse/neglect case as a young cat that I took in about 8 years ago. When she hit adulthood and kept gaining poundage, I took her to the vet, and they reviewed what food I was feeding her, how much, and ran about $1100 in tests - and they are totally stumped as to why she's a blimp. No hormonal, glandular/organ issues apparent - she's just passed through puberty (got spayed) and kept growing widthwise. It's sad she's going to have the "big one," or have her liver or kidneys eventually go, as she's a gentle sweetheart. But even being able to go outside at will, she is no couch potato - she's the couch.

Friend of mine down here has a similarly chubby cat with the same situation. Former rescue, no real explanation for all the weight. Also a sweetheart. Kinda like @The Crusher  

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28 minutes ago, slats said:

Friend of mine down here has a similarly chubby cat with the same situation. Former rescue, no real explanation for all the weight. Also a sweetheart. Kinda like @The Crusher  

Fat and happy isn’t for everyone, just the sexy people. 

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1 hour ago, Bungaman said:

My friends have nicknamed her "The Bowling Ball with legs." She kills rodents (occasionally) but doesn't eat them - which I know is hard to believe.

It's true - because she is so lazy, she literally will watch a mouse cross the floor, and she watches it, and nothing moves except her neck. I've told her spectating is NOT part of the lease agreement. (I live way out in the woods.) She'll camp out next to a mole hole on the lawn for hours, waiting until some really dumb rodent exits right into her paws. She also kills but doesn't eat them, either, just leaves them where I can step on the corpse in bare feet in the middle of the night.

And no, I don't overfeed her. She was an abuse/neglect case as a young cat that I took in about 8 years ago. When she hit adulthood and kept gaining poundage, I took her to the vet, and they reviewed what food I was feeding her, how much, and ran about $1100 in tests - and they are totally stumped as to why she's a blimp. No hormonal, glandular/organ issues apparent - she's just passed through puberty (got spayed) and kept growing widthwise. It's sad she's going to have the "big one," or have her liver or kidneys eventually go, as she's a gentle sweetheart. But even being able to go outside at will, she is no couch potato - she's the couch.

Better legs than butcher knives

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6 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

It also astonished me that the board wants to jump up and down crying about pff and Jason saying the trade ups were a mistake.  You can't praise the guy for his "process" and then give him gold stars for going against it.  More than Wilson, I think he banked a  bunch of his rep on Johnson and Hall.  They'd better be good because they gave up the chance to draft a bunch of players that I liked with those deals.  The board loves it because the board was super enamored with Johnson, Hall and Ruckert,  I get what he wanted to do and I give him credit for the conviction on those players, but they got those three instead of #35, #38, #69, #146 and #163.  The process is great, he's banking on the draft, RBs are not high value players - but when he gives up picks and puts a ton of capital in an RB, the board blindly supports him.

 

I would be interested to hear you expound on it some more because I would like to understand the viewpoint. PFF goes on and on about this as well and how horrible the process of trading up for anything other than a QB is a bad process. I can it a bit with AVT since we gave away 2 thirds for a guard but don't see how the two trades this year even on a purely mathematical basis are that bad.

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

I would be interested to hear you expound on it some more because I would like to understand the viewpoint. PFF goes on and on about this as well and how horrible the process of trading up for anything other than a QB is a bad process. I can it a bit with AVT since we gave away 2 thirds for a guard but don't see how the two trades this year even on a purely mathematical basis are that bad.

Personally, I don't think it is bad, but I can certainly see why people do not agree with it.  Those guys look at it as giving away chances.  Right now most of the board is looking at all these guys as "hits" but those odds are pretty slim.  Think about the way people are looking at Michael Clemons.  Then imagine adding a couple of more guys to the draft class like that.

They gave up 35, 69 and 163 for 26 and 101.  They ended up with Johnson and Ruckert, but that trade meant that they had to trade up to get Hall, giving up 38 and 146 to move up to 36.   They could have stood pat and gotten Hall and landed Ebikitie or Mafe and still had 69 146 and 163.  At 69 the only TE off the board was McBride.  Jelani Woods and Dulcich were there.  They Titans took Petit-Friere.  Muma and Nakobe Dean were there too, as was every QB except Pickett.  They also could have traded down.  The Giants moved 38 for 43 and 114.  The took Wan'dale at 43 and Brandon Smith was there at 114 and I was interested in him.  

You end up with more of a shotgun approach than sniper if you keep all those picks.  I like the fact that they seemed concerned with fit, but they have to be hits.  There were RBs all over and plenty of DBs and LBs that could have helped the team.  You couple that with last year's trade up for a guard and I can see concern that it is a trend.  We just lived through this with Tannebaum.  They gave up 23, 66 and 86 for 14 and 143.  The Vikings took Darrishaw, Mond and Wyatt Davis.  By doing things the PFF way, the Jets rolled #143 and 226 into Echols, Pinnock and Marshall.  They don't have to hit on every guy, but there is less room for the Jabari Zuniga's of the world using this method.

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His strategy and philosophy makes zero difference if he’s not winning games. If Zach Wilson is a bust, we are winning 4-5 games this year at best. If after your 3rd full season you’ve won 10 games total, your long term strategy is garbage. 

As for talent evaluation being his biggest strength, which home runs did he hit? 

We had a horrendous D last year. Absolute garbage. Couple of rookies aren’t turning it into the 85 Bears D. Our offense was also absolute garbage save for 4-5 games. 

Unless he hits on all 4 early picks this year and Zach playing average at least. We aren’t winning more than 5 and that long term strategy comes under heavy scrutiny. 

Im not washing JDs balls. 

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Personally, I don't think it is bad, but I can certainly see why people do not agree with it.  Those guys look at it as giving away chances.  Right now most of the board is looking at all these guys as "hits" but those odds are pretty slim.  Think about the way people are looking at Michael Clemons.  Then imagine adding a couple of more guys to the draft class like that.

They gave up 35, 69 and 163 for 26 and 101.  They ended up with Johnson and Ruckert, but that trade meant that they had to trade up to get Hall, giving up 38 and 146 to move up to 36.   They could have stood pat and gotten Hall and landed Ebikitie or Mafe and still had 69 146 and 163.  At 69 the only TE off the board was McBride.  Jelani Woods and Dulcich were there.  They Titans took Petit-Friere.  Muma and Nakobe Dean were there too, as was every QB except Pickett.  They also could have traded down.  The Giants moved 38 for 43 and 114.  The took Wan'dale at 43 and Brandon Smith was there at 114 and I was interested in him.  

You end up with more of a shotgun approach than sniper if you keep all those picks.  I like the fact that they seemed concerned with fit, but they have to be hits.  There were RBs all over and plenty of DBs and LBs that could have helped the team.  You couple that with last year's trade up for a guard and I can see concern that it is a trend.  We just lived through this with Tannebaum.  They gave up 23, 66 and 86 for 14 and 143.  The Vikings took Darrishaw, Mond and Wyatt Davis.  By doing things the PFF way, the Jets rolled #143 and 226 into Echols, Pinnock and Marshall.  They don't have to hit on every guy, but there is less room for the Jabari Zuniga's of the world using this method.

It's been reported that the Texans were gonna grab Hall ahead of the Jets in the 2nd round. Jets wanted him, so they had to trade up. 

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15 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

How good was the 2nd draft really?   They got WIlson and his ability remains to be seen. Vera-Tucker seems good, but he's a ******* guard.  At 14!  oore was the 3rd pick in the 2nd round and he looks very good, but he has been hurt.  A bunch.  Same for Carter.  Good, but hurt often.  All those DBs and S/LBs?   They had jobs and snaps, but I don't think any of them proved anything special.  At this time last year people were still singing his praises for Becton over Wirfs and Mims was being compared favorably to Claypool, PIttman and Van Jefferson.  I heard that Hall is a true #1 corner.  First round value!  The 2021 draft looks good so far, but that perception can change pretty quickly.

The 2021 draft was so good that they ran right out this year and paid huge for a guard to supplement the guard they drafted at 14, traded up for a back (and re-signed Tevin Coleman) to supplement the back they drafted in the third, drafted a receiver at 10 to do what Elijah Moore was going to do, went out and used massive capital to bury all the corners they drafted over the two years prior, and the safety-to-LB converts they drafted won’t beat out Quinnen Williams’  journeyman UDFA brother. 

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Curious about everyone's thoughts on two of the (reportedly) biggest FA contract offers JD made that weren't accepted.  By all accounts the Jets were hot and heavy on trying to sign Joe Thuney last year year (OG who went to Chiefs for 5 yrs/$80M) and Marcus Williams (FS who went to Baltimore for 5 yrs/$70M).

Those are very good players but incredibly expensive and play two of the least premium positions on field.  Since the Jets didn't sign those guys we'll never know for sure exactly what the offers were but the Jets were reportedly in the ballpark with $$$ on both of them.

Is it a good thing the Jets didn't land those guys?  JD had to spend a lot to get AVT in the Draft and is also paying for Tomlinson this year (although significantly less than Thuney got) while the Free Safety spot is still a bit of a question, certainly for the longterm.

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43 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The 2021 draft was so good that they ran right out this year and paid huge for a guard to supplement the guard they drafted at 14, traded up for a back (and re-signed Tevin Coleman) to supplement the back they drafted in the third, drafted a receiver at 10 to do what Elijah Moore was going to do, went out and used massive capital to bury all the corners they drafted over the two years prior, and the safety-to-LB converts they drafted won’t beat out Quinnen Williams’  journeyman UDFA brother. 


Well, when you put all of it that way….

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5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The 2021 draft was so good that they ran right out this year and paid huge for a guard to supplement the guard they drafted at 14, traded up for a back (and re-signed Tevin Coleman) to supplement the back they drafted in the third, drafted a receiver at 10 to do what Elijah Moore was going to do, went out and used massive capital to bury all the corners they drafted over the two years prior, and the safety-to-LB converts they drafted won’t beat out Quinnen Williams’  journeyman UDFA brother. 

Yeah, and you would’ve had them draft an OT to replace the one they took in 2019, because that would’ve been smart, right?
 
Last I looked, most teams have two starting guards, with three starting WRs and CBs. Tomlinson isn’t replacing AVT, he’s shoring up the other side of the line. The safety converts were never supposed to play the S/M that Williams does, only the 30% of the time they have a Will out there. GWilson isn’t replacing Moore, he’s upgrading the #3 from Berrios. MC1 and Coleman were brought here to be part of a RBBC, Breece Hall takes over the #1 spot and the room is massively improved. Isn’t that what you want the GM to do? Improve the team?

Reading this post, maybe you think he should’ve drafted baseball players instead. I mean, the team had plenty of football players on it already. 

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2 hours ago, slats said:

Yeah, and you would’ve had them draft an OT to replace the one they took in 2019, because that would’ve been smart, right?
 
Last I looked, most teams have two starting guards, with three starting WRs and CBs. Tomlinson isn’t replacing AVT, he’s shoring up the other side of the line. The safety converts were never supposed to play the S/M that Williams does, only the 30% of the time they have a Will out there. GWilson isn’t replacing Moore, he’s upgrading the #3 from Berrios. MC1 and Coleman were brought here to be part of a RBBC, Breece Hall takes over the #1 spot and the room is massively improved. Isn’t that what you want the GM to do? Improve the team?

Reading this post, maybe you think he should’ve drafted baseball players instead. I mean, the team had plenty of football players on it already. 

I think you’re extraordinarily and inexplicably confident in Mekhi Becton’s opting to be a contributor to Jets football in 2022.

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16 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

His strategy and philosophy makes zero difference if he’s not winning games. If Zach Wilson is a bust, we are winning 4-5 games this year at best. If after your 3rd full season you’ve won 10 games total, your long term strategy is garbage. 

As for talent evaluation being his biggest strength, which home runs did he hit? 

We had a horrendous D last year. Absolute garbage. Couple of rookies aren’t turning it into the 85 Bears D. Our offense was also absolute garbage save for 4-5 games. 

Unless he hits on all 4 early picks this year and Zach playing average at least. We aren’t winning more than 5 and that long term strategy comes under heavy scrutiny. 

Im not washing JDs balls. 

His strategy and philosophy have given us a higher probability of long term success, compared to the many Jets & other GMs who didn't / don't have a consistent plan.  Sometimes ripping the bandaid off hurts really bad compared to a slower bleed, but doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.  Short term 2019-2021 wins is NOT the benchmark.  It's the CURRENT COACHING STAFF, the CURRENT ROSTER, and THE AVAILABLE CAP SPACE MOVING FORWARD .... after 3 long, hard years of rebuilding and transitioning to a new HC & QB, and turning over a crappy roster while fixing a cap mess (dead money).

He got us to this point trading Leo Williams and Jamal Adams, and firing Gase who he inherited.  He also made the decision to move on from Darnold, a decision that a good number of NFL experts and many here thought was a mistake.  "Surround Darnold with better talent", they said...

Yes, it takes time to climb the ladder after being firmly stuck in the basement.

Head Coach:  Replaced Gase with Saleh, beating out multiple other teams who were heavily interested.

QB:  Replaced Darnold with Wilson.  Did you want him to wait another year for the great crop of this past draft's QBs, wait even longer until 2023 or trade for an established star when all the 'others stars didn't align'?  38 year old Rodgers @ $50M per year, Massage Watson for 3 #1s, or 33 year old Wilson for multiple 1s, multiple starters & more?  And please don't tell me you or anyone else here or elsewhere were clamoring for Mac Jones to be the pick.

Roster:  From trash to on paper, now competitive.  Its core consists of 7 top 40 picks across the past 2 drafts + a smart, 'value centric' collection of good to very good NFL starters he picked up mostly in free agency (Fant, McGovern, JFM, Reed, Whitehead, Tomlinson, Uzomah/Conklin, Lawson, Davis)

Now, it's time for wins.  Completely agree and would be heavily disappointed if we don't jump from 4 to 8+ wins this year.  

 

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40 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think you’re extraordinarily and inexplicably confident in Mekhi Becton’s opting to be a contributor to Jets football in 2022.

What does Conner Hughes have to say about it? 

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8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The 2021 draft was so good that they ran right out this year and paid huge for a guard to supplement the guard they drafted at 14, traded up for a back (and re-signed Tevin Coleman) to supplement the back they drafted in the third, drafted a receiver at 10 to do what Elijah Moore was going to do, went out and used massive capital to bury all the corners they drafted over the two years prior, and the safety-to-LB converts they drafted won’t beat out Quinnen Williams’  journeyman UDFA brother. 

Drinking and posting?  The guard was to replace VanRoten. AVT on other side.  Coleman was there when they drafted Carter in the first place.  Coleman on 1 yr deal now at minimal price so WTF are you complaining about?   Keep Coleman and bye bye Perine.  Love having Carter, Hall and Coleman for this year.  Or cut coleman in camp with minimal cap damage if you feel Johnson is the 3rd back.  Especially if there are no injuries and if the rest of the RBs look decent by late august.  Having Coleman at little cost at this point is f'king brilliant you twit, because RB  injuries between now and final cut downs could handicap the offense.  If you can't see how smart this is, then the reality is that you are dumb.  The icing on the cake: Wilson drafted to do what Moore was supposed to do. More like what Corey Davis was supposed to do. Moore and Wilson out there at the same time w/Davis as 3rd option for 2022.  (1 yr deal) 

 @Maxman or some other mod... give this guy ^ a 24 hr ban to clear his bowels before posting again.

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