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Brady Quinn sh*ts all over Jets/Say 5 wins or under


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3 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Brady Quinn made it out of that draft room? Last I saw him he was dropping and dropping. So glad he landed on his feet.

That was the first draft I watched.   It was so funny how they kept the camera on him until he left the room lol 

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Excuses however valid are still excuses 

It wasn't a great 5 game stretch. It was better than he was before but it wasn't really great or even good 

No, when a fact is brought up its just a fact.  Its not an excuse

No one said it was a great 5 game stretch, just that he played better, made much better decisions.  Lets not try to oversell it.

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This was a stupid, over-produced and poorly acted segment featuring two D-list “analysts,” but what Quinn espouses here is pretty much the consensus opinion regarding the 2022 Jets. It’s all “they had a great draft and they’re on the way up, but ehhhhhh Zach Wilson…”

FWIW, Quinn has never been high on Zach. His pre-draft analysis was effectively that Zach has talent, but is also a developmental project who played a cupcake schedule behind a great OL and that he’d have to go to a perfect situation if he was to have any chance of reaching his potential. Recently saw a breakdown by Ben Solak from December (right after the Saints debacle) where he smashes Wilson to bits. Here, a snippet:

“Wilson’s processing remains debilitatingly slow, and it has multiple negative effects on his game. There are plays during which Wilson’s slow process means the ball is delivered to the checkdown well after the checkdown is a viable option: Zone defenders have already keyed on the route and are closing downhill, ensuring that the gain will be marginal at best, a loss at worst.”

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2021/12/15/22836791/zach-wilson-new-york-jets-struggles

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7 hours ago, bitonti said:

dude we all watched all the games

Zach was cautious in the last 5 games, throwing like very safe reads. He didn't throw dumb ints but he also didn't throw many amazing TDs either 

that's not the same as throwing 400 yards per game

in fact without looking up stats I'd venture that Darnold's rookie year end stretch was more impressive than Zach's 

What I saw was a QB for whom the game slowed down, was much more accurate on short passes, used his athleticism to run a little more and was in command of the offense and playbook. Like I said he was already better by the end of last year. People just want to focus mostly on the stuff before the injury when he was clearly a bit behind especially in the speed of the game. LaFleur early also did Zach no favors.

PFF is not the be it all but by their ratings he was very solid at the end before the Buffalo game:

Performing at a Top 10 level when he had few of his weapons is pretty impressive IMO.

Then couple that with the fact that he has elite arm strength, elite release speed as well as elite escapability in the pocket, the vastly improved offense around him and he came back in terrific shape, I still would say I don't know how people don't expect him to be good. 

Most people still think he will fail saying things like "Zach has no excuses". It is not unreasonable to think that a baseline expectation for Zach is a Top half of the league QB and likely much better than that. There is a reason he was picked 2nd, and SF foolishly traded up to get him

 

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11 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

What I saw was a QB for whom the game slowed down, was much more accurate on short passes, used his athleticism to run a little more and was in command of the offense and playbook. Like I said he was already better by the end of last year. People just want to focus mostly on the stuff before the injury when he was clearly a bit behind especially in the speed of the game. LaFleur early also did Zach no favors.

PFF is not the be it all but by their ratings he was very solid at the end before the Buffalo game:

Performing at a Top 10 level when he had few of his weapons is pretty impressive IMO.

Then couple that with the fact that he has elite arm strength, elite release speed as well as elite escapability in the pocket, the vastly improved offense around him and he came back in terrific shape, I still would say I don't know how people don't expect him to be good. 

Most people still think he will fail saying things like "Zach has no excuses". It is not unreasonable to think that a baseline expectation for Zach is a Top half of the league QB and likely much better than that. There is a reason he was picked 2nd, and SF foolishly traded up to get him

 

In weeks 15-17, Zach averaged 60% completions, 169 yards passing, with two passing TDs total over those three games. Those were sandwiched between dreadful performances against the Saints and Bills, in which he did not look like a viable QB. 

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35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

In weeks 15-17, Zach averaged 60% completions, 169 yards passing, with two passing TDs total over those three games. Those were sandwiched between dreadful performances against the Saints and Bills, in which he did not look like a viable QB. 

I get what you are saying and it makes sense…

But the eye test baby!!! 

Zach crushed it in the eye test for me because some plays he knew what was happening and played instinctively.  That’s who I think he’ll be.  There seemed to be a higher proportion of those to end the season.

This is what i saw in college for him too.  Zach’s not Brett Farve, he needs to understand what’s going on at a deep level to do his thing.
 

 

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3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

This was a stupid, over-produced and poorly acted segment featuring two D-list “analysts,” but what Quinn espouses here is pretty much the consensus opinion regarding the 2022 Jets. It’s all “they had a great draft and they’re on the way up, but ehhhhhh Zach Wilson…”

FWIW, Quinn has never been high on Zach. His pre-draft analysis was effectively that Zach has talent, but is also a developmental project who played a cupcake schedule behind a great OL and that he’d have to go to a perfect situation if he was to have any chance of reaching his potential. Recently saw a breakdown by Ben Solak from December (right after the Saints debacle) where he smashes Wilson to bits. Here, a snippet:

“Wilson’s processing remains debilitatingly slow, and it has multiple negative effects on his game. There are plays during which Wilson’s slow process means the ball is delivered to the checkdown well after the checkdown is a viable option: Zone defenders have already keyed on the route and are closing downhill, ensuring that the gain will be marginal at best, a loss at worst.”

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2021/12/15/22836791/zach-wilson-new-york-jets-struggles

then heres what he said January 

 

 

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On 5/17/2022 at 7:41 AM, Irish Jet said:

Even the people who say they wouldn't be pissed would be pissed - Fans are more fickle than they like to think. It's easy to preach patience before the fact. 0-9 would be so bad that everyone in the building would be under pressure. It would have to mean Zach is failing spectacularly. 

I doubt it will happen. There's some winnable games there and upsets happen. We'll steal one or two and beat some others. We better. 

could also mean that zach is playing well and the defense is failing spectacularly. 

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27 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

could also mean that zach is playing well and the defense is failing spectacularly. 

I can't see them being that bad. They may struggle to stop the run but there's no excuse for being anywhere near as bad as they were in 2021 with all of the additions that have been made. If they are then Saleh will have one foot out the door by the bye week. 

If Zach is good or even decent, with the weapons around him we will definitely win some of those games.

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On 5/17/2022 at 8:26 PM, Jet Nut said:

Cleveland without Watson?  Detroit was a 3 win team.  Minny, Denver were all under .500.  You never know, as everyone says, if ZW does adds the normal growth spurt you expect out of a 2nd year QB the team?  We added a lot of new players to add to a lot of youngsters who got experienced a year ago+.  

We'll have to wait and see how much its improved the team

We don’t know if Cleveland will be without Watson. Even if they are, Jets defense was bad against the run last year while Cleveland has arguably the best running attack in the league with Chubb and Hunt along with a very good D. Detroit, the Jets should be favored (I missed that one in my original post). Denver was under .500, but they have Russ now and playing in Denver is always tough (Jets lost to Tebow there once). Minn isn’t a powerhouse, but again, it’s a road game. 
 

It’s a rough schedule.

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On 5/17/2022 at 11:06 PM, T0mShane said:

“Wilson’s processing remains debilitatingly slow, and it has multiple negative effects on his game. There are plays during which Wilson’s slow process means the ball is delivered to the checkdown well after the checkdown is a viable option: Zone defenders have already keyed on the route and are closing downhill, ensuring that the gain will be marginal at best, a loss at worst.

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2021/12/15/22836791/zach-wilson-new-york-jets-struggles

This article has been out there for awhile.  I thought it had merit then, and still does.

We all saw this scenario borne out on the field week after week.  It's not even debatable by Wilson apologists.  If folks want to argue Wilson's process "sped up" and that he showed signs of development late in the year, that's fine.  Maybe. 

But for most of the year, he couldn't keep the offense on schedule, failing to execute some of the most basic plays (e.g.  quick WR screens, dumpoffs to RBs, easy toss to the flat to TE, etc.).

MW ran the offense with tempo and conviction, and the result was 400+ yards and W over the Super-Bowl bound Bengals.  The man was starting to cook with gas in Indy when the freak nerve injury in his throwing arm happened.

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On 5/17/2022 at 11:51 PM, T0mShane said:

In weeks 15-17, Zach averaged 60% completions, 169 yards passing, with two passing TDs total over those three games. Those were sandwiched between dreadful performances against the Saints and Bills, in which he did not look like a viable QB. 

From what I recall, in his "successful" outings (e.g. vs Philly, Bucs) , he was basically able to execute LaFleur's gameplan / scripted plays in the 1st half.

But in the 2nd half, for whatever reason(s), Wilson and the offense couldn't muster much of anything.

Wilson's yardage totals down the stretch:

HOU 145

PHI 226

NO 202

MIA 170

JAX 102

TB 234

BUF 87 (!)

Wilson was 7 for 20 (for the 87 yards) to close out the season vs a Bills team that had already lost Tre White for the season and which was absolutely eviscerated by Mahomes a few weeks later.

MW had the 4 INTs vs BUF but also went for 251 yards.

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I listened to what he said and don’t see a problem with it. He’s right that the schedule did not break right for the Jets and knows a slow start can bury any NFL team.

If they win 5 games or less they are likely looking at a top 5 pick so a new QB is a real possibility 

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On 5/19/2022 at 1:15 PM, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

From what I recall, in his "successful" outings (e.g. vs Philly, Bucs) , he was basically able to execute LaFleur's gameplan / scripted plays in the 1st half.

But in the 2nd half, for whatever reason(s), Wilson and the offense couldn't muster much of anything.

Wilson's yardage totals down the stretch:

HOU 145

PHI 226

NO 202

MIA 170

JAX 102

TB 234

BUF 87 (!)

Wilson was 7 for 20 (for the 87 yards) to close out the season vs a Bills team that had already lost Tre White for the season and which was absolutely eviscerated by Mahomes a few weeks later.

MW had the 4 INTs vs BUF but also went for 251 yards.

Buffalos lost Tre White for that least game of season verses the Jets? I’m not sure but I think if we took the time to look at the Jets roster from the  first time we played them to the  second time we played them you might see a couple names missing for the second game we played them. Not that it matters, but it could. 
 

I asking wonder if we put Zach in the market for the tender we did for Mike White if the result would be Zach on the team. Not that it matters, but it could. 

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On 5/24/2022 at 8:08 PM, Dwight Englewood said:

Our schedule is demonic, our first Win might not be until 11/27 vs Bears

I’m guessing you sleep with the lights on. 

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2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Buffalos lost Tre White for that least game of season verses the Jets? I’m not sure but I think if we took the time to look at the Jets roster from the  first time we played them to the  second time we played them you might see a couple names missing for the second game we played them. Not that it matters, but it could. 
 

I asking wonder if we put Zach in the market for the tender we did for Mike White if the result would be Zach on the team. Not that it matters, but it could. 

I agree in thar we should totally try and put Zach Wilson on the market and see what happens

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On 5/19/2022 at 9:48 AM, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

This article has been out there for awhile.  I thought it had merit then, and still does.

We all saw this scenario borne out on the field week after week.  It's not even debatable by Wilson apologists.  If folks want to argue Wilson's process "sped up" and that he showed signs of development late in the year, that's fine.  Maybe. 

 

In other words you are basing this mostly on the first half which fits your narrative. Of course Mike White is graded on a single outlier game.

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