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2023 QBs


maury77
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38 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Calling @JiFields, @Paradis, @win4ever, @derp, @Chrebetfan80 and anyone else that likes to break down tape that I may have forgotten, its time to start digging into the tape of this year's crop. 

I highly doubt we select one high this offseason, but I could see them selecting a mid round guy to come in and compete next year and take mike whites spot on the roster when he bails in FA

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1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Calling @JiFields, @Paradis, @win4ever, @derp, @Chrebetfan80 and anyone else that likes to break down tape that I may have forgotten, its time to start digging into the tape of this year's crop. 

 

21 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I highly doubt we select one high this offseason, but I could see them selecting a mid round guy to come in and compete next year and take mike whites spot on the roster when he bails in FA

I wasn't going to even think of this, but the last few weeks have proven it is time... 

And I am not saying definitively because I haven't watched QBs in this way , but Hendon Hooker (Vols) qb injury while unfortunate for him could have him be a target. we still need a veteran guy even with a guy like Hooker/

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Just now, Stark said:

 

I wasn't going to even think of this, but the last few weeks have proven it is time... 

And I am not saying definitively because I haven't watched QBs in this way , but Hendon Hooker (Vols) qb injury while unfortunate for him could have him be a target. we still need a veteran guy even with a guy like Hooker/

The thing is even if they ultimately decide to bench zach (Which at least in the short term i highly doubt). I think they will go with a veteran rather than another rookie qb to compete, and that guy to me would end up being type of qb that can start and be respectable, but also if he doesnt beat zach out wont mind being a backup. Someone better than Flacco but probably not as good as Jimmy G. 

I really dont see them adding another QB through the draft this year.  I think next year is way more likely. 

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18 minutes ago, Stark said:

 

I wasn't going to even think of this, but the last few weeks have proven it is time... 

And I am not saying definitively because I haven't watched QBs in this way , but Hendon Hooker (Vols) qb injury while unfortunate for him could have him be a target. we still need a veteran guy even with a guy like Hooker/

I'm hoping Hooker's ACL tear is a blessing in disguise for the Jets so he can drop to the third round. 

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16 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

The thing is even if they ultimately decide to bench zach (Which at least in the short term i highly doubt). I think they will go with a veteran rather than another rookie qb to compete, and that guy to me would end up being type of qb that can start and be respectable, but also if he doesnt beat zach out wont mind being a backup. Someone better than Flacco but probably not as good as Jimmy G. 

I really dont see them adding another QB through the draft this year.  I think next year is way more likely. 

if the JETS coaches are being honest with themselves Zach shouldn't be starting over a guy you bring in unless your just bringing in a guy to say "look we brought in competition" this roster is better than everyone thought and you have to bring in a viable starter. 

they absolutely should add a QB in the draft, not with their first pick but they need to 

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8 minutes ago, Stark said:

if the JETS coaches are being honest with themselves Zach shouldn't be starting over a guy you bring in unless your just bringing in a guy to say "look we brought in competition" this roster is better than everyone thought and you have to bring in a viable starter. 

they absolutely should add a QB in the draft, not with their first pick but they need to 

I think the viable starter that would be brought in is a guy like jacoby brissette.  Middle of the road at best, but doestn turn it over and can run an offense.  I dont see them making a big move for Carr or something like that, and I just dont see them drafting a guy this year.  

I could be way off base, but i just dont see it. 

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25 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I'm hoping Hooker's ACL tear is a blessing in disguise for the Jets so he can drop to the third round. 

I haven't really looked at broken down play of Hooker  to know how I feel about him legitimately but probably 

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14 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I think the viable starter that would be brought in is a guy like jacoby brissette.  Middle of the road at best, but doestn turn it over and can run an offense.  I dont see them making a big move for Carr or something like that, and I just dont see them drafting a guy this year.  

I could be way off base, but i just dont see it. 

I think we are only "average" QB play away from being a serious problem week to week. Whoever JD thinks is the dude is fine with me but I'd hope he's at least trying to get a guy that could play at a "floor" of Jimmy G level. 

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13 minutes ago, Stark said:

I think we are only "average" QB play away from being a serious problem week to week. Whoever JD thinks is the dude is fine with me but I'd hope he's at least trying to get a guy that could play at a "floor" of Jimmy G level. 

Yea I mean, that guy could be Jimmy G, but i think if you are getting someone like him he is coming in knowing he's the starter.

 

For better or worse, the guy they bring in will have to compete with Zach and not be guaranteed the starting job.  That profiles as a Brissett type of player.  Which honestly if its JB we're in good shape. 

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29 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Yea I mean, that guy could be Jimmy G, but i think if you are getting someone like him he is coming in knowing he's the starter.

 

For better or worse, the guy they bring in will have to compete with Zach and not be guaranteed the starting job.  That profiles as a Brissett type of player.  Which honestly if its JB we're in good shape. 

I mean, if you want Zack to compete with somebody I guess just because he’s gonna be on the roster but based on his play, the guy you bring in should be able to beat them out easily or you’re bringing in the wrong guy
 

It’s frustrating because we all we’re hoping we might have something at qb the eyeball test telling you we do not

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19 minutes ago, Stark said:

I mean, if you want Zack to compete with somebody I guess just because he’s gonna be on the roster but based on his play, the guy you bring in should be able to beat them out easily or you’re bringing in the wrong guy
 

It’s frustrating because we all we’re hoping we might have something at qb the eyeball test telling you we do not

he most likely would be beaten out but realistically they have to give him a shot to compete. JImmy G would want a guarantee he;s the starter probably.

same for any trade involving rodgers or carr which goes without saying. 

just dont think thats the move for JD 

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5 hours ago, maury77 said:

Calling @JiFields, @Paradis, @win4ever, @derp, @Chrebetfan80 and anyone else that likes to break down tape that I may have forgotten, its time to start digging into the tape of this year's crop. 

I'm very intrigued by Anthony Richardson, because he's sliding down the boards.  He's not going top 10 anymore (unless he blows up the combine, which is possible).  

Florida already runs a wide zone attack, but I think a running QB is the way to go at this point.  It was the same attraction point to Fields, a guy that can legitimately threaten with the running game can open up a ton of lanes for passing.  With our WR talent, getting a guy that legit can run like Josh Allen can really improve the offense.   It's my opinion that the Shanahan offense's adjustment to cover 2 coverages that are prevalent right now is to add a running QB.  Once that QB is a threat, teams have to pick and choose Cover 2, or roll into Cover 1, which is much easier to exploit.  

I haven't looked at All-22 tapes either, but I like some of the qualities shown by Richardson on game films, even though the stats aren't there.  I think him sucking is helping him drop a bit.  

The other downside is, I think the 2024 draft class is loaded, I LOVE Drake Maye.  He reminds me a ton of Herbert/Big Ben.  

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1 hour ago, win4ever said:

I'm very intrigued by Anthony Richardson, because he's sliding down the boards.  He's not going top 10 anymore (unless he blows up the combine, which is possible).  

Florida already runs a wide zone attack, but I think a running QB is the way to go at this point.  It was the same attraction point to Fields, a guy that can legitimately threaten with the running game can open up a ton of lanes for passing.  With our WR talent, getting a guy that legit can run like Josh Allen can really improve the offense.   It's my opinion that the Shanahan offense's adjustment to cover 2 coverages that are prevalent right now is to add a running QB.  Once that QB is a threat, teams have to pick and choose Cover 2, or roll into Cover 1, which is much easier to exploit.  

I haven't looked at All-22 tapes either, but I like some of the qualities shown by Richardson on game films, even though the stats aren't there.  I think him sucking is helping him drop a bit.  

The other downside is, I think the 2024 draft class is loaded, I LOVE Drake Maye.  He reminds me a ton of Herbert/Big Ben.  

Really agree with you on this post. Think Richardson is a good late first/early 2nd guy. Absolutely love his potential and lately it seems like he's really getting there as a passer. In his last game hit 400 yards and made some excellent throws. Love the mobility too and think it's where we need to look. Guys who use their legs seem to be the trend for success because it can help balance out someone who maybe isn't there 100% as a passer yet.

Also a huge Drake Maye guy for 2024. Guy can flat out play football and I think he can be a truly great one. Also Caleb Williams looks excellent in his own right. Digging the '24 class a whole lot.

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6 hours ago, maury77 said:

Calling @JiFields, @Paradis, @win4ever, @derp, @Chrebetfan80 and anyone else that likes to break down tape that I may have forgotten, its time to start digging into the tape of this year's crop. 

I don’t think I’ve got the time to dive this year unfortunately but I’m better with numbers than tape anyway so it’ll be interesting when that stuff comes out. My early lean is that even though his footwork looks a little wonky to me at points, if Bryce Young’s size puts him in striking distance you take that shot.

And if not I think you acquire 2024 capital and maybe see if someone with upside (Richardson) slides to day 2 or you can take an experienced senior who runs a little late day two early day three. Not super intrigued by Levis at the moment but interested in how his splits look. I struggle enough with guys with elite WR play and OSU’s track record is such that I’m okay letting someone else take Stroud, but again curious how the splits look.

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12 hours ago, Grandy said:

Really agree with you on this post. Think Richardson is a good late first/early 2nd guy. Absolutely love his potential and lately it seems like he's really getting there as a passer. In his last game hit 400 yards and made some excellent throws. Love the mobility too and think it's where we need to look. Guys who use their legs seem to be the trend for success because it can help balance out someone who maybe isn't there 100% as a passer yet.

Also a huge Drake Maye guy for 2024. Guy can flat out play football and I think he can be a truly great one. Also Caleb Williams looks excellent in his own right. Digging the '24 class a whole lot.

Yeah, I love his potential but we're somewhat in a rock and a hard place conundrum.  While I love Maye and Williams in 2024, we are in no position to get them with a young and functional defense, and weapons on offense.  We almost have to take a shot at high ceiling, low floor guys, so a guy like Richardson makes sense.  

I think the NFL is trending that way, I agree.  A legitimate running QB inadvertently might be causing pocket integrity.  Scramblers like Darnold/Wilson have the ability to escape the pocket horizontally, so they will run to the outside to escape the pocket.  This is nearly impossible to block for consistently, because the OL has their backs turned, so they can't see where the QB is.  Defenses mainly keep contain by rushing up the field, and then going horizontal.  However, athletic rushers like Lamar, Allen, Hurts, and Fields going into rushing mode, can go straight up the pocket.  Defenses in general have been looking more for pass rushing tackles, than space eaters that can clog multiple lanes in an attempt to curtail passing (part of the reason why good rushing teams eat now), which in a weird way works right into the hands of rushing QBs.  In the past, guys running straight up the gut were going to get knocked on their ass from the tackles.  Now, these guys have better chances of open lanes to hit and accelerate through.  To counter, defenses have to contain by choosing their rushing strategies wisely, which then allows for more pristine pockets.  Essentially, running up the middle is becoming the step up in the pocket effect.  

I thought Wilson was understanding that last year, when he kept running.  I thought he was understanding that the way to stop the rush was the become a vertical runner, because that helps out the OL massively.  Unfortunately, I just think he's playing too scared to throw right now.  

Maye in terms of scouting has been my favorite QB to scout in quite some time.  He reminds me so much of Herbert, and love his pocket presence.  Barring injury, I think he'll be a top 5 QB at some point in his career.  

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22 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Yea I mean, that guy could be Jimmy G, but i think if you are getting someone like him he is coming in knowing he's the starter.

 

For better or worse, the guy they bring in will have to compete with Zach and not be guaranteed the starting job.  That profiles as a Brissett type of player.  Which honestly if its JB we're in good shape. 

How would you feel about Mariota? Falcons may want to turn to Riddler next year and Mariota has a nice skill set for the Jets offense. 

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21 hours ago, win4ever said:

I'm very intrigued by Anthony Richardson, because he's sliding down the boards.  He's not going top 10 anymore (unless he blows up the combine, which is possible).  

Florida already runs a wide zone attack, but I think a running QB is the way to go at this point.  It was the same attraction point to Fields, a guy that can legitimately threaten with the running game can open up a ton of lanes for passing.  With our WR talent, getting a guy that legit can run like Josh Allen can really improve the offense.   It's my opinion that the Shanahan offense's adjustment to cover 2 coverages that are prevalent right now is to add a running QB.  Once that QB is a threat, teams have to pick and choose Cover 2, or roll into Cover 1, which is much easier to exploit.  

I haven't looked at All-22 tapes either, but I like some of the qualities shown by Richardson on game films, even though the stats aren't there.  I think him sucking is helping him drop a bit.  

The other downside is, I think the 2024 draft class is loaded, I LOVE Drake Maye.  He reminds me a ton of Herbert/Big Ben.  

Agreed, but I'm not sure the Jets will be bad enough to be able to select Maye, Caleb, Ewers, etc. 

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5 minutes ago, maury77 said:

How would you feel about Mariota? Falcons may want to turn to Riddler next year and Mariota has a nice skill set for the Jets offense. 

Funny story, i actually really wanted mariota this year to back up zach.  I think he's gotten a lot better over the years and can be a very good backup. Now he's certainly limited, but he throws a great ball and every once in a while he can wow you.  

 

I think best options for the jets next year if they decide to go a vet route are Mariota and Brissett.  The issue is I dont know if any hit the market.  Jimmy G i would be shocked if SF lets him go.  The team absolutely loves him and all he does is win, i know they gave up the world for Lance but until he is healthy and beats out Jimmy, why get rid of him?

Mariota makes sense though, I think he may want to stay and they may want to keep him and let Ridder battle it out, but I really liked Ridder coming out, i thought personally he had a chance to be the best QB out of that class (where you rank his ceiling as a player overall is up for debate). So I would not be shocked to see them name him the starter early on and let Mariota may be available. 

Brissett is another one thats going to get a lot of interesting chatter in the offseason.  He has played well for the browns, but they are stuck with Watsons contract,  they dug their own grave with that monstrosity so Brissett probably walks.  He's going to be in demand though. 

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5 hours ago, maury77 said:

Agreed, but I'm not sure the Jets will be bad enough to be able to select Maye, Caleb, Ewers, etc. 

Ewers maybe because I'm not sure he's looked that great.  I think with just average to slightly below average QB play, this is a 8-10 win team.  This team is essentially the '09/10 Jets, so they can't tank to get that high pick.  They need someone to drop based on something.  I think Richardson has that Allen potential, but his stats are all over the place.  Some games, he looks absolutely magnificent, and then some days extremely mediocre.  

I think Young, Stroud, and Levis will go in the first round.  First two, somewhat obvious, unless they completely tank the combine.  I think Levis will surprise folks at the combine with his arm and go middle of the pack.  I think someone like Richardson/Hooker should drop.  Another guy, ,maybe could be Penix Jr from Washington, but the medicals are vital with him.  Those knee injuries are scary, and I don't like him nearly as much without his ability to consistently run.  

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13 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Ewers maybe because I'm not sure he's looked that great.  I think with just average to slightly below average QB play, this is a 8-10 win team.  This team is essentially the '09/10 Jets, so they can't tank to get that high pick.  They need someone to drop based on something.  I think Richardson has that Allen potential, but his stats are all over the place.  Some games, he looks absolutely magnificent, and then some days extremely mediocre.  

I think Young, Stroud, and Levis will go in the first round.  First two, somewhat obvious, unless they completely tank the combine.  I think Levis will surprise folks at the combine with his arm and go middle of the pack.  I think someone like Richardson/Hooker should drop.  Another guy, ,maybe could be Penix Jr from Washington, but the medicals are vital with him.  Those knee injuries are scary, and I don't like him nearly as much without his ability to consistently run.  

What do you think of Hooker? I think you live in Tennessee, right?

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2 hours ago, maury77 said:

What do you think of Hooker? I think you live in Tennessee, right?

I just moved to GA actually, like literally unpacking right now.  

I'm not the biggest fan of Hooker to be honest, I don't like him quite as much as Richardson, because their offense is based very heavily on the deep pass, run, or screen pass.  They consistently take shots down the field, which works great in college where a ton of teams play Cover 0 or single high safety.  It looks great on highlights like Wilson, but I like QBs that show consistent ability to hit the intermediate throws.  A deep shot is usually a pre-determined read, where you see a one on one match up at the line of scrimmage, and you decide to test it out.  Very much a staple of spread offenses, especially if you have fast receivers.  I think it was Bryce Petty that once said, a single high safety look in college meant an automatic alert for the go route to the outside receiver at Baylor, and I think his first game against the Colts, he kept chucking it deep (and missing) Robbie Anderson.  

While I like the deep pass, I like to see more progression.  Like he reads a slant, a comeback, and then go route, instead of basically "Oh yeah, 1 on 1 there, time to just chuck it up".  I want a QB to naturally draw in a safety to open up the go in college.  

He does have quick size and mobility, but I think Richardson is just a better athlete and has a better arm.  Hooker has better accuracy, but I like the Florida offense to translate a bit better.  

Although, at this point of the draft, it's just lottery ticket scouting on these QBs.  I feel like Richardson offers the upside, but needs a better running game around him to take some pressure off.  

TN fans god damn love him though.  After that Alabama game, he could basically run for Congress in the state.  But I think it's one of those cases, where he's perfect for their offense, but I don't think he transitions that well to the NFL.

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25 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I just moved to GA actually, like literally unpacking right now.  

I'm not the biggest fan of Hooker to be honest, I don't like him quite as much as Richardson, because their offense is based very heavily on the deep pass, run, or screen pass.  They consistently take shots down the field, which works great in college where a ton of teams play Cover 0 or single high safety.  It looks great on highlights like Wilson, but I like QBs that show consistent ability to hit the intermediate throws.  A deep shot is usually a pre-determined read, where you see a one on one match up at the line of scrimmage, and you decide to test it out.  Very much a staple of spread offenses, especially if you have fast receivers.  I think it was Bryce Petty that once said, a single high safety look in college meant an automatic alert for the go route to the outside receiver at Baylor, and I think his first game against the Colts, he kept chucking it deep (and missing) Robbie Anderson.  

While I like the deep pass, I like to see more progression.  Like he reads a slant, a comeback, and then go route, instead of basically "Oh yeah, 1 on 1 there, time to just chuck it up".  I want a QB to naturally draw in a safety to open up the go in college.  

He does have quick size and mobility, but I think Richardson is just a better athlete and has a better arm.  Hooker has better accuracy, but I like the Florida offense to translate a bit better.  

Although, at this point of the draft, it's just lottery ticket scouting on these QBs.  I feel like Richardson offers the upside, but needs a better running game around him to take some pressure off.  

I can see that and I have definite concerns about Hooker with that offense. That being said, I like the way he deals with adversity in the pocket and he's a quick decision maker. 

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On 11/21/2022 at 8:43 AM, maury77 said:

I'm hoping Hooker's ACL tear is a blessing in disguise for the Jets so he can drop to the third round. 

If we want him I still think it will take a 1st rounder, maybe we get super lucky and he falls to 2nd round.

Regardless, I want to see us take a next Gen QB who has running as part of his game.  Too many successful QBs in this league (the nfl) that may not be terrific pure passers but combined their legs and okay passers makes them winners.

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6 hours ago, maury77 said:

@JiFields where are you on Richardson these days?

I have no clue what you're getting at QB, but I do know you he'll be the best athlete on the field damn near any time in his life he steps on it.  I do know, he's an incredible kid who takes accountability (blamed the Kentucky loss on himself, rightfully so, lol) and works really hard.  I know he wants to be great and is a very tough competitor.  He's Josh Allen but faster, more twitchy but also, more of a wild card.  He's as raw of a prospect as I've ever seen and I dont know how to assess his college career because the program was in full turmoil when he arrived.  He was in a weird carousel last year and the current team and Mullen only ran handful of plays.  The current team, is the worst assembly of skills players in the history of the program and he's got first year head coaches.  So I dont know man, I've seen progress and I've seen stuff that I cant tell if it's him or the team.  What I can tell you though is, I'd take him over Levis in a heartbeat. 

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43 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

If we want him I still think it will take a 1st rounder, maybe we get super lucky and he falls to 2nd round.

Regardless, I want to see us take a next Gen QB who has running as part of his game.  Too many successful QBs in this league (the nfl) that may not be terrific pure passers but combined their legs and okay passers makes them winners.

bro he's a 6 year college player with an acl injury theres no way in he goes 1st

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9 hours ago, maury77 said:

I can see that and I have definite concerns about Hooker with that offense. That being said, I like the way he deals with adversity in the pocket and he's a quick decision maker. 

He's looked much better this year, so there definitely is potential.  Definitely raised his stock quite a bit.  Idk, there's a weird Tahj Boyd vibe with him for me, like he's athletic enough for college, but not sure it translates.

Man, after some game this year (I forgot), I was looking at the draft forum thinking "Finally, don't have to pay attention to the QBs this year", lol.  

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20 hours ago, JiFields said:

I have no clue what you're getting at QB, but I do know you he'll be the best athlete on the field damn near any time in his life he steps on it.  I do know, he's an incredible kid who takes accountability (blamed the Kentucky loss on himself, rightfully so, lol) and works really hard.  I know he wants to be great and is a very tough competitor.  He's Josh Allen but faster, more twitchy but also, more of a wild card.  He's as raw of a prospect as I've ever seen and I dont know how to assess his college career because the program was in full turmoil when he arrived.  He was in a weird carousel last year and the current team and Mullen only ran handful of plays.  The current team, is the worst assembly of skills players in the history of the program and he's got first year head coaches.  So I dont know man, I've seen progress and I've seen stuff that I cant tell if it's him or the team.  What I can tell you though is, I'd take him over Levis in a heartbeat. 

Really good post. Love his potential, especially as a project we can mentor behind the scenes while we trot out a quality vet. 

On the topic of Levis, the NFL seems much higher on him than fans and I feel he's either going to go the direction of Wilson or Herbert with no in between (former much more likely). Though I'm totally with you on wanting to take Richardson over him. When evaluating the total package I have no idea why Levis seems to be a tier above Richardson in many scouts eyes. Richardson is raw, but he's getting there and his potential is absurd.

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2 hours ago, maury77 said:

Do any of you see Stroud or Young falling to the 11-15 range? If yes, would you be willing to trade up to get either?

Think it’s early to know where they’ll go for both.

Young kind of depends on who’s up there with QB needs and how they value prototypes. Brugler has talked on a podcast a few times about how only two QB’s under 6’ and 200 pounds have been drafted in the last 20-25 years and I believe both were day three. Alabama hasn’t been great this year either.

I think if the Jets can add a rookie contract QB who can handle pressure and play point guard they can be pretty good. I’m open to having my mind changed but think Young can be that guy.

Stroud has been up and down a little and the talent he plays with is insane. I’m open to changing a little but I don’t think the Jets are as good relative to their competition as that OSU offense. Lean letting someone else take him. But he’ll have some big games to answer questions and make a mark - think he could rise or fall.

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On 11/22/2022 at 9:53 AM, Chrebetfan80 said:

Jimmy G i would be shocked if SF lets him go.  The team absolutely loves him and all he does is win, i know they gave up the world for Lance but until he is healthy and beats out Jimmy, why get rid of him?

Jimmy G 2022 Contract:

No Trade Clause

No Tag Clause for 2023

Incentives
$250,000 per game where he takes 25% of snaps ($100,000 more per win) ($2.85M earned)
$500,000 with 50% snaps in a playoff game
Extra $500,000 with 50% snaps in the NFC Championship game
Extra $500,000 with an NFC Championship win
Extra $1M with 50% snaps in the Super Bowl

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On 11/25/2022 at 10:02 AM, maury77 said:

Do any of you see Stroud or Young falling to the 11-15 range? If yes, would you be willing to trade up to get either?

I don't see it happening, but if so I don't see why not.

Big proponent of taking big swings at QBs until you get it right. They're quality prospects. If we like them, and the price is right go on ahead. 

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