2023 QBs

[Greenseed4]

Where does Zach Wilson rank among this years QB class? 

If available, would a team prefer to trade draft assets for him AFTER Bryce Young and CJ Stroud, but maybe BEFORE Will Levis? 

[derp]

59 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Where does Zach Wilson rank among this years QB class? 

If available, would a team prefer to trade draft assets for him AFTER Bryce Young and CJ Stroud, but maybe BEFORE Will Levis? 

[Lith]

THis one is intriguing for the Jets.  He has the tools, but never quite put it all together at Florida.  He always scared me when we played them -- was this the game he was going to figure it out.  I think he would be a nice day 2 option as a guy who can sit for a year or two and develop without the pressure to play immediately.

 

[maury77]

Matt Waldman on AR-15. He's more bullish on him than I expected. 

 

[derp]

5 hours ago, Lith said:

THis one is intriguing for the Jets.  He has the tools, but never quite put it all together at Florida.  He always scared me when we played them -- was this the game he was going to figure it out.  I think he would be a nice day 2 option as a guy who can sit for a year or two and develop without the pressure to play immediately.

 

I agree that getting drafted as a day 2 developmental guy would be a nice spot for Richardson, but given the position he plays if that’s what folks like us think of him I feel like that means he’ll make it into the first round.

Imagine he’s going to get mocked to the Giants a lot. A lot.

[Lith]

1 hour ago, derp said:

I agree that getting drafted as a day 2 developmental guy would be a nice spot for Richardson, but given the position he plays if that’s what folks like us think of him I feel like that means he’ll make it into the first round.

Imagine he’s going to get mocked to the Giants a lot. A lot.

You are probably right--he probably won't get out of R1.  Even if a guy is R2 talent, you want that 5th year option, trade into the back of R1 to get a guy.

I think Richardson would have benefitted from another year in college -- I thought maybe as a transfer candidate since UF did not quite know how to use him.

[derp]

12 minutes ago, Lith said:

You are probably right--he probably won't get out of R1.  Even if a guy is R2 talent, you want that 5th year option, trade into the back of R1 to get a guy.

I think Richardson would have benefitted from another year in college -- I thought maybe as a transfer candidate since UF did not quite know how to use him.

Yeah I’m totally with you. I think he’s got to be so raw at this point that a team can’t play him so if he goes to a favorable situation I could see it all working out. I’m sure interviews will be key as well. Wonder if Detroit would take him, let him sit for a year or two, and then have him play in that run first attack with a good OL, St. Brown underneath, and Williams as a deep threat.

[IndianaJet]

18 hours ago, derp said:

Yeah I’m totally with you. I think he’s got to be so raw at this point that a team can’t play him so if he goes to a favorable situation I could see it all working out. I’m sure interviews will be key as well. Wonder if Detroit would take him, let him sit for a year or two, and then have him play in that run first attack with a good OL, St. Brown underneath, and Williams as a deep threat.

The newest tank-a-thon mock has him going to the Jets at 22

Now that would give us something to scream at each other all offseason.

[BCJet]

4 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

The newest tank-a-thon mock has him going to the Jets at 22

Now that would give us something to scream at each other all offseason.

Profootballnetwork just moved Richardson to #1 overall in their latest mock, so it does seem like his physical skills will put him in the top half of the first round.  

I dont see this as a great QB class but one of the guys should pan out.  Bryce Young is a fantastic player and IMO the best QB prospect in the draft but if he really weighs 185 that is really pushing the size element in the NFL. 

The next 6 games will tell us a lot about Mike White but I just dont see JD using a first round pick on a QB either way.  Coming from Baltimore and Phila I think he looks to build the team and then will figure out QB.  He took Zach as that was a "QB heavy" draft (regardless of how they have panned out), we really needed a QB and we had extra picks. Now, I think he continues to build the OL and DL and then fills holes along the way at positions like LB and Safety and he will find a QB outside of the top 40 picks. 

Unless you are taking one of the true generational guys like Luck, Manning, Stafford etc. there is too much variance with these QBs and you are just as likely to find one from the middle of the first (if someone falls) through the 3rd or even 4th round then you are picking one at 2-10.  

On top of that, at minimum we have to compete with Josh Allen, Mahomes and Burrow for the next 10 years.  Is there a greater chance of continuing to pick QBs in the hopes you find someone as good as those guys?  Or is it better to build a defense, OL, running game and find your version of Jimmy G who can keep you winning games and in the playoffs where anything can happen?  

[Stark]

On 11/30/2022 at 12:10 PM, Greenseed4 said:

Where does Zach Wilson rank among this years QB class? 

If available, would a team prefer to trade draft assets for him AFTER Bryce Young and CJ Stroud, but maybe BEFORE Will Levis? 

undrafted FA

[win4ever]

On 12/5/2022 at 2:59 PM, maury77 said:

Matt Waldman on AR-15. He's more bullish on him than I expected. 

 

He actually has a lot of traits that go unnoticed in highlights.  

1.  He steps up in the pocket really well, you don't see him float back too much.  This is a big issue with running QBs, and guys like Wilson/Darnold, who can run around enough to make defensive linemen miss.  Shows really good pocket awareness for a raw prospect.  In this aspect, he reminds me a good amount of Herbert, but more athletic.  A guy that's big that can actually move up in the pocket.  This is extremely critical for teams that don't have elite OL talent, because they have an imaginary pocket to protect, instead of wondering where the QB is running around.  

2.  He's good at intermediate throws, comebacks, outs, crossing routes.  It may not mean much, but I love college QBs that can attack the intermediate areas with relevant routes.  Too often, you'll see short throws (any Urban Meyer offense, Clemson offense) with mesh or screen concepts, or RPO to go route concepts (Art Briles, Tennessee now) where it's a ton of deep go passes.  Neither of which translate well into the league beyond the skill set.  

3.  He steps into pressure and makes throws, and I think that's something that college QBs miss a lot.  Too many guys are mobile enough that they run around until they have a free step up area and then throw.  I've seen  Richardson throw a couple where he steps up into the pressure knowing he'd be hit to make a throw.  Not only does this show toughness, it shows that he's willing to throw on timing.  

Not saying he's a lock to be a stud, because he certainly has issues.  He has Hackenberg level yips at times with his accuracy, but the raw potential is very similar to Josh Allen.  I really like him if he slips down near the end of the first.   

[#27TheDominator]

On 12/6/2022 at 7:16 PM, BCJet said:

The next 6 games will tell us a lot about Mike White but I just dont see JD using a first round pick on a QB either way.  Coming from Baltimore and Phila I think he looks to build the team and then will figure out QB.  He took Zach as that was a "QB heavy" draft (regardless of how they have panned out), we really needed a QB and we had extra picks. Now, I think he continues to build the OL and DL and then fills holes along the way at positions like LB and Safety and he will find a QB outside of the top 40 picks. 

I don't think I agree with this at all.  You are acting like Douglas was stuck picking a QB in 2021.  He elected to take the pick for Darnold and roll with Wilson, but he could have easily flipped that #2 overall for quite a haul.  The Dolphins got #12, a 2022 1st, 2022 3rd, and a 2023 1st.  sh*t the Eagles got #12, a 2021 4th, and a 2022 1st for #6 with 3 QBs already off the board - for the 3rd pass catcher taken in the draft.  If Douglas didn't want a QB at the top of the draft and wanted to fill holes while he "figured it out" that would have been the literal perfect time to prove it. 

[win4ever]

On 12/8/2022 at 9:08 AM, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think I agree with this at all.  You are acting like Douglas was stuck picking a QB in 2021.  He elected to take the pick for Darnold and roll with Wilson, but he could have easily flipped that #2 overall for quite a haul.  The Dolphins got #12, a 2022 1st, 2022 3rd, and a 2023 1st.  sh*t the Eagles got #12, a 2021 4th, and a 2022 1st for #6 with 3 QBs already off the board - for the 3rd pass catcher taken in the draft.  If Douglas didn't want a QB at the top of the draft and wanted to fill holes while he "figured it out" that would have been the literal perfect time to prove it. 

I think the thought process was correct (somewhat similar to how I thought Idzik had the right process, wrong execution) but they botched the process.  Setting up the team through free agency and the draft worked really well.  Making those trades with Seahawks, Vikings, Panthers all turned out really well.  He set up everything to work great, but he bought in on the wrong QB. 

I'm not even sure he bought in on the wrong QB, he brought the wrong QB for the system.  Wilson would look a lot better in a vertical offense that threatened down the field, but he just doesn't fit the offense well at all.  I think (and this is just me completely speculating, so could be wrong), the reasoning was an opposites attract type of theory.  Wilson has skills that compliment the system (adequate mobility, down field arm) and they figured the system (intermediate, check down reads) would prop him up as well.  Sort of how Saleh says the Jets will prop him up at the draft, hoping the system fixes his flaws, and his skills improve the system.  Unfortunately, neither worked out.

I don't think Darnold was the answer as well, as we found out with him in Carolina.  Their decision was sound, IMO, but their choices were wrong.  They got hooked into the home run swing, when a double with either Fields or Jones would have worked out better.  The 49ers went with the same approach on the home run swing, but their swing made more sense because the rushing ability was built in already with Lance.  

Ideally, trading down with the 49ers, and then picking Fields/Jones would have been ideal, but a major risk because Darnold was already gone by then.  They didn't have a QB, and couldn't risk having them all go by the 12th pick.  

[#27TheDominator]

54 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I think the thought process was correct (somewhat similar to how I thought Idzik had the right process, wrong execution) but they botched the process.  Setting up the team through free agency and the draft worked really well.  Making those trades with Seahawks, Vikings, Panthers all turned out really well.  He set up everything to work great, but he bought in on the wrong QB. 

I'm not even sure he bought in on the wrong QB, he brought the wrong QB for the system.  Wilson would look a lot better in a vertical offense that threatened down the field, but he just doesn't fit the offense well at all.  I think (and this is just me completely speculating, so could be wrong), the reasoning was an opposites attract type of theory.  Wilson has skills that compliment the system (adequate mobility, down field arm) and they figured the system (intermediate, check down reads) would prop him up as well.  Sort of how Saleh says the Jets will prop him up at the draft, hoping the system fixes his flaws, and his skills improve the system.  Unfortunately, neither worked out.

I don't think Darnold was the answer as well, as we found out with him in Carolina.  Their decision was sound, IMO, but their choices were wrong.  They got hooked into the home run swing, when a double with either Fields or Jones would have worked out better.  The 49ers went with the same approach on the home run swing, but their swing made more sense because the rushing ability was built in already with Lance.  

Ideally, trading down with the 49ers, and then picking Fields/Jones would have been ideal, but a major risk because Darnold was already gone by then.  They didn't have a QB, and couldn't risk having them all go by the 12th pick.  

Nothing I disagree with here.  The thing I am not sure about is whether they want the running or not.  It seems they don't use it, but the Niners seem to see the utility.  I remember your break down on these guys pre-draft and it doesn't seem they valued running as much as you thought they would

[win4ever]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Nothing I disagree with here.  The thing I am not sure about is whether they want the running or not.  It seems they don't use it, but the Niners seem to see the utility.  I remember your break down on these guys pre-draft and it doesn't seem they valued running as much as you thought they would

I thought it was weird they didn't, because I think mobility and the threat of mobility enhanced the system.  The whole outside zone run scheme is designed against the linebackers to over-commit.  If they commit to the outside, it opens up the cutback lane for the running back, or it opens up crossing routes going the other way on play action.  Essentially the defense has to commit to run defense with outside contain and cutback contain, or be liable to a one on one matchup guy taking advantage.  In essence, the one on one nightmare guy on the team will dominate, as we saw with Julio, Kittle, Deebo, Hill/Waddle, and now with Garret Wilson.  The whole idea is running completely different plays from the same formation, much similar to how pitchers throw fastballs and sliders on the same trajectory at first.  

Adding a running QB dimension should add to it, because not only are they defending the run, they have to hesitate on the QB as well.  I think that's the biggest reason why Tua has taken a massive step forward, because he has that one on one nightmare in Hill (and Waddle to an extent), but he can run the ball if needed out of RPO and hold the linebackers.  This opens up the slants and quick hitters to Hill/Waddle and they can do the rest.  

What I don't understand is, why didn't MLF value the running aspect as much?  Field's down the field throwing accuracy was well documented to be excellent in metrics, so it wasn't just a limited guy.  It seems counterintuitive, because it accelerates the system considerably, unless he wanted to branch out away from it to a more pass happy system.  In a way, McVay branched out to have more pass happy options with down the field passing, and I'm wondering if MLF wanted to follow that route.  

I also think, NFL is going to follow CFB much in the same fashion that rushing QBs are going to be a trend, if not already.  Allen, Hurts, Lamar, Mahomes, Watson before off the field issues seem to be headlining the next group of stars that can all rush if they needed to.  I'm just not sure why they didn't value it.  I remember when we hired MLF, there were rumors that McDaniels was a guy we really wanted, but SF blocked him, because he was the genius of their running game.  MLF was the passing guy, McDaniels was the running guy, and I wonder if that label made MLF more committed to a passing QB to prove himself to the NFL.  

[derp]

Couple of thoughts on a great exchange above:

I think as defenses have adjusted to the Shanahan scheme and knowing where hot reads are, it’s all the more important to have a running QB to keep defenses honest in addition to the run game benefits of holding guys.

Really agree with the point about Wilson being better hidden by an offense that emphasizes more vertical stuff and the remainder of that point. Much more of a square peg round hole than it seemed. This has happened with other prospects - Elijah Moore comes to mind - guy with slot heavy experience who can play outside but the way this team runs a power slot a-la Godwin fits much better if they want to go three wide a lot. I’ve gotten excited about this kind of stuff in the past because it makes me think there’s a plan a little outside the system and it continues to turn out I’m not sure how much of a plan there is - or it’s not a great one. Some stuff that it seems like they hope works out more than they think it will work out because they know how to address the drawback.

Harped on this a lot in the lead up to the 2021 draft but the track record for QB’s drafted in the 2-5 range is horrific. So I can’t get behind the idea that taking a guy there is good process. We continue to hear that teams need to take a QB in the top five because you don’t know when they’ll be back and I genuinely believe that is only true at pick one - where there isn’t always a special guy but there sometimes is and I think you take the shot there. But if he’s there he’s going one (see Luck with Manning on the roster) and if there’s one there likely isn’t a second teams have actually identified who’s going to go shortly thereafter. Much better to try to build the team and find a guy to develop in the future. They should’ve taken the deal Miami took.

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, win4ever said:

I thought it was weird they didn't, because I think mobility and the threat of mobility enhanced the system.  The whole outside zone run scheme is designed against the linebackers to over-commit.  If they commit to the outside, it opens up the cutback lane for the running back, or it opens up crossing routes going the other way on play action.  Essentially the defense has to commit to run defense with outside contain and cutback contain, or be liable to a one on one matchup guy taking advantage.  In essence, the one on one nightmare guy on the team will dominate, as we saw with Julio, Kittle, Deebo, Hill/Waddle, and now with Garret Wilson.  The whole idea is running completely different plays from the same formation, much similar to how pitchers throw fastballs and sliders on the same trajectory at first.  

Adding a running QB dimension should add to it, because not only are they defending the run, they have to hesitate on the QB as well.  I think that's the biggest reason why Tua has taken a massive step forward, because he has that one on one nightmare in Hill (and Waddle to an extent), but he can run the ball if needed out of RPO and hold the linebackers.  This opens up the slants and quick hitters to Hill/Waddle and they can do the rest.  

What I don't understand is, why didn't MLF value the running aspect as much?  Field's down the field throwing accuracy was well documented to be excellent in metrics, so it wasn't just a limited guy.  It seems counterintuitive, because it accelerates the system considerably, unless he wanted to branch out away from it to a more pass happy system.  In a way, McVay branched out to have more pass happy options with down the field passing, and I'm wondering if MLF wanted to follow that route.  

I also think, NFL is going to follow CFB much in the same fashion that rushing QBs are going to be a trend, if not already.  Allen, Hurts, Lamar, Mahomes, Watson before off the field issues seem to be headlining the next group of stars that can all rush if they needed to.  I'm just not sure why they didn't value it.  I remember when we hired MLF, there were rumors that McDaniels was a guy we really wanted, but SF blocked him, because he was the genius of their running game.  MLF was the passing guy, McDaniels was the running guy, and I wonder if that label made MLF more committed to a passing QB to prove himself to the NFL.  

Isn’t the nerd conclusion that the likelihood and opportunity cost of gaining ten yards on any particular pass play significantly higher than gaining ten yards on any run play? Also, the Shanahan “system” is largely countered by zone defenses, which hurts the QB run game because defenders are facing the line of scrimmage as opposed to turning and running downfield? I think McDaniels is running the platonic ideal of the Shanahan system simply by stretching it upfield—seven yard routes being run at 15, etc, with super-fast receivers. Maybe there was some evolution of that offense that could maximize Trey Lance’s skillset existed, but we won’t see that until Lance stays healthy.

[BCJet]

On 12/8/2022 at 12:08 PM, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think I agree with this at all.  You are acting like Douglas was stuck picking a QB in 2021.  He elected to take the pick for Darnold and roll with Wilson, but he could have easily flipped that #2 overall for quite a haul.  The Dolphins got #12, a 2022 1st, 2022 3rd, and a 2023 1st.  sh*t the Eagles got #12, a 2021 4th, and a 2022 1st for #6 with 3 QBs already off the board - for the 3rd pass catcher taken in the draft.  If Douglas didn't want a QB at the top of the draft and wanted to fill holes while he "figured it out" that would have been the literal perfect time to prove it. 

If JD traded back out of #2 who exactly would have played QB?  The 2021 team is completely different from what we have now and will have for the next 3-4 years, so putting some veteran or even mike white on that team wasnt going to work.  He needed to take a shot on a QB in that draft.

As for mobility, I think Zach is far more mobile then he is getting credit for, he just doesnt know when and how to use his athletic ability. He would rather do spin moves and run around behind the line, then take yardage that is available to him when plays break down. 

[derp]

32 minutes ago, BCJet said:

If JD traded back out of #2 who exactly would have played QB?  The 2021 team is completely different from what we have now and will have for the next 3-4 years, so putting some veteran or even mike white on that team wasnt going to work.  He needed to take a shot on a QB in that draft.

As for mobility, I think Zach is far more mobile then he is getting credit for, he just doesnt know when and how to use his athletic ability. He would rather do spin moves and run around behind the line, then take yardage that is available to him when plays break down. 

The 2021 team team was worse than this one, which I think is what you’re saying, but I don’t see why that’s a reason to take a QB. Why would you want to force a young QB to play on a bad team? If anything I think it is and was a reason not to take - or at the very least not to take and play - a young quarterback.

Ultimately if Douglas didn’t take a QB at #2 in 2021 the team would’ve had better QB play in 2021 and a better and more developed group of players to support the development of a young quarterback whenever they chose to take him.

There are a lot of ways he could’ve handled that situation better - signing a veteran (which they ultimately did later) would’ve been key. If they’d done that they could’ve traded down and kicked the can down the curb at QB or taken Wilson and sat him both of which would’ve been better than this. And it looks like taking Fields and using his running ability to help remain competitive while bringing him along as a passer would've been better too.

And these are all things several of us preferred at the time so it’s not just a matter of hindsight.

[win4ever]

On 12/9/2022 at 12:19 PM, T0mShane said:

Isn’t the nerd conclusion that the likelihood and opportunity cost of gaining ten yards on any particular pass play significantly higher than gaining ten yards on any run play? Also, the Shanahan “system” is largely countered by zone defenses, which hurts the QB run game because defenders are facing the line of scrimmage as opposed to turning and running downfield? I think McDaniels is running the platonic ideal of the Shanahan system simply by stretching it upfield—seven yard routes being run at 15, etc, with super-fast receivers. Maybe there was some evolution of that offense that could maximize Trey Lance’s skillset existed, but we won’t see that until Lance stays healthy.

Theoretically in a vacuum, yes.  A passing play is more likely to result in largest net gains than a running play, but a lot of passing gains stem from the threat of running on an even talent level.  In essence, unless we are pitting the Chiefs against Coastal Carolina in a game (at which point the delta in talent difference is too vast for play design to matter as much), you need the passing game to set up the running game, and vice versa.  In the Shanahan system, their running game is so potent that the passing game feeds from it.  

If we take the Rams for example, McVay burst onto the scene with Gurley/Goff at the forefront of that attack.  They had a wildly successful offense because Gurley could be dominant, and then passing behind that with Goff made things much easier.   In the second year, at the SB, Bellichek runs cover 1s and 0s, to essentially take away the running game, they realize Goff can't beat them, because he's not going to be consistently be throwing in the deep parts of the field.  In an extremely short sample size, we see the weakness of this system, in that you have to have a running back that acts as a stud, or you need a QB that can consistently throw it deep.  The Rams went with the latter, got Stafford to have the threat of stretching the field, and the 49ers went with the former, picking up McCaffery to be the stud RB.  

The part where defenses now have evolved is more cover 2 zones, taking away the down field hits for QBs, which is essentially the idea behind a guy like Zach Wilson.  Defenses are essentially forcing offenses to hit the intermediate areas, and then picking one form of attack.  So when someone like Brady doesn't have a running game, he looks mediocre because teams are flooding the intermediate and deep field zones.  However, take a mobile QB and move him around, and this now adds a layer of the running game that these defenses just can't cover.  Hurts/Fields/Tua are all flawed passers for various reasons, but when you add in their ability to scramble, those intermediate throws open up, or they can make you pay with their feet.  This not only opens up the intermediate areas, defenses can't go full on pass rush, and have to account for QB contain, thus helping to protect the pocket.  

I think the idea of Lance was that he provides that rushing ability, plus the deep pass ability.  Somewhat of a home run swing, but they were hedging their bets against any defense.  If you sell out for the run, we can hit you deep and reverse for Cover 2 zones.  Fields on the Jets or 49ers could have had massive stats as well, just because his running skill set alters what the defense could do (especially assuming without the butterfly effect that the team would be constructed the same elsewhere).  

I think the Miami one is interesting because they have two of the biggest one on one match up nightmares in the NFL for speed in Hill/Waddle.  Unlike most traditional speedsters, I think both of them thrive in the short slant/mesh/out game, paired with a quick release QB that feeds perfectly into how defenses are generally constructed now to prevent being constantly burned over the top.  It's also why I'm very interested to see the Jets match up with them because having two good corners makes that a great chess match. 

 

[Grandy]

Been watching film recently, and I'm really starting to like Bryce Young. As of today he would go #1 to Houston but if somehow Chicago gets that pick, something spicy may happen at the top of the draft. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, Grandy said:

Been watching film recently, and I'm really starting to like Bryce Young. As of today he would go #1 to Houston but if somehow Chicago gets that pick, something spicy may happen at the top of the draft. 

I think I just read he's like 185 lbs.  

[derp]

13 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think I just read he's like 185 lbs.  

Yup. Only quarterbacks sub 6’ and 200 pounds to get drafted in the last 20 years or so are Seneca Wallace (110 overall, year Jets drafted Bollinger) and Joe Hamilton (234 overall, year Jets drafted Pennington).

Young is a major outlier, other short guys like Kyler Murray and Russell Wilson were thicker. That said, he seems to be pretty good at the playing QB part of playing QB. If he slides because of his size it could get interesting for the Jets given that’s really what they need at the position and in the system and the roster is structured around having a QB on a rookie deal.

Douglas seems to be more of a tools guy though so I wonder if he falls for someone like Levis.

It’s also very realistic they don’t take a QB in the first, obviously.

Also kind of interesting, guys who have an extra year of pandemic eligibility (Bo Nix, Michael Penix) are using it and going back to school. In addition to Maye and Caleb Williams there’s a chance that class is deep with experienced guys in the mid rounds. I think this coming class has some guys who have already used that extra year too. Curious if the additional year in college means a little or absolutely nothing in terms of polish and development at the position.

[maury77]

Holy sh!t, how did Michael Penix put up those numbers this year? I never thought much of him when he was at Indiana. 

[maury77]

Alright guys, let's start breaking it down. 

 

[maury77]

 

[maury77]

 

[maury77]

 

[maury77]

 

[derp]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

 

Man Waldman likes Richardson. Some cool stuff here. Would be interested to watch him nitpick him a little too as I’m sure there are things. The pocket management is pretty wild to see after what we’ve watched this year, continue to believe that stuff is pretty innate.

[Sonny Werblin]

Just saw that Sam Hartman is using his last year of eligibility to transfer to Notre Dame. So, by the time his college career is over, he will be 24 (going on 25 before the NFL season starts) but will have 50+ college starts under his belt with well over 2,000 pass attempts.  Without regard for Sam Hartman's particular skills, perhaps this is the model pro scouts should be looking for when scouting a QB -- experience, maturity, playing for more than one team with success.  Rather than have these green kids jump right from a couple of college seasons to the pro's, make sure they've earned a place by sticking with the college game and doing well, Who cares if he'll be 25, pro sports isn't what they used to be and a QB who takes care of himself can easily play well into his late 30's. Perhaps the main reason for Brock Purdy's success is the fact that he started for 4 years at Iowa State and had 48 starts under his belt?

 

[Grandy]

Bryce Young is excellent. Haven't made up my mind about the rest of the class but I can say that he's #1.

He has size concerns, but the guy just plays the position so well. 

[maury77]

CJ Stroud has his faults, but I think he would look great in the LaFleur offense. Plays in rhythm, gets the ball out quick, accurate and can run when he has to. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

On 5/17/2022 at 1:36 PM, kdels62 said:

If we need a QB I’m feeling pretty positive about Sam Hartman. He’s like a better Sam Darnold to me. Honestly even if Wilson is good next year I’d draft Hartman in the 2nd round if he’s there.

Irish

 

He had quite a few interceptions, but most were from pressing the ball down field trying to make things happen.  Getting away from the slow mesh, running a more pro style offense, and playing behind a mauling line with four really good backs is going to let him shine even more.  

I'm so stoked for this guy in a gold helmet.  He's Ian Book with twice the arm and field vision.  

[Sammybighead]

On 12/8/2022 at 11:55 AM, win4ever said:

He actually has a lot of traits that go unnoticed in highlights.  

1.  He steps up in the pocket really well, you don't see him float back too much.  This is a big issue with running QBs, and guys like Wilson/Darnold, who can run around enough to make defensive linemen miss.  Shows really good pocket awareness for a raw prospect.  In this aspect, he reminds me a good amount of Herbert, but more athletic.  A guy that's big that can actually move up in the pocket.  This is extremely critical for teams that don't have elite OL talent, because they have an imaginary pocket to protect, instead of wondering where the QB is running around.  

2.  He's good at intermediate throws, comebacks, outs, crossing routes.  It may not mean much, but I love college QBs that can attack the intermediate areas with relevant routes.  Too often, you'll see short throws (any Urban Meyer offense, Clemson offense) with mesh or screen concepts, or RPO to go route concepts (Art Briles, Tennessee now) where it's a ton of deep go passes.  Neither of which translate well into the league beyond the skill set.  

3.  He steps into pressure and makes throws, and I think that's something that college QBs miss a lot.  Too many guys are mobile enough that they run around until they have a free step up area and then throw.  I've seen  Richardson throw a couple where he steps up into the pressure knowing he'd be hit to make a throw.  Not only does this show toughness, it shows that he's willing to throw on timing.  

Not saying he's a lock to be a stud, because he certainly has issues.  He has Hackenberg level yips at times with his accuracy, but the raw potential is very similar to Josh Allen.  I really like him if he slips down near the end of the first.   

I'm definitely impressed. As you noted, for a running qb, he manages the pocket extremely well, an attribute I'm looking at specifically after what I've seen from zach. 

If he could throw consistently, he'd be a once in a generation prospect. Allen learned to be more accurate passer, but I'm not sure that's the norm, more an outlier.