2023 QBs

[win4ever]

On 1/10/2023 at 8:45 AM, Sammybighead said:

I'm definitely impressed. As you noted, for a running qb, he manages the pocket extremely well, an attribute I'm looking at specifically after what I've seen from zach. 

If he could throw consistently, he'd be a once in a generation prospect. Allen learned to be more accurate passer, but I'm not sure that's the norm, more an outlier.

There's some few guys that really do a good job of stepping up in the pocket, Drake Maye is probably the best I've seen in college football (with actual potential), but Richardson is definitely interesting.  I'm just not sure we are going to be in a position to draft him, because I don't think we're spending No. 13 on him, and I don't know if he will drop to the second.  

In terms of upside, has that Allen feel, but Allen also looked much much worse coming out of college.  He made a ton of strides though as a passer, so Idk if we can hang our hat on that. 

There's a part of me that kinda wants to run it back and see if it's disaster or not, and just wait for the '24 class.  

[BCJet]

On 12/29/2022 at 3:39 PM, Sonny Werblin said:

Just saw that Sam Hartman is using his last year of eligibility to transfer to Notre Dame. So, by the time his college career is over, he will be 24 (going on 25 before the NFL season starts) but will have 50+ college starts under his belt with well over 2,000 pass attempts.  Without regard for Sam Hartman's particular skills, perhaps this is the model pro scouts should be looking for when scouting a QB -- experience, maturity, playing for more than one team with success.  Rather than have these green kids jump right from a couple of college seasons to the pro's, make sure they've earned a place by sticking with the college game and doing well, Who cares if he'll be 25, pro sports isn't what they used to be and a QB who takes care of himself can easily play well into his late 30's. Perhaps the main reason for Brock Purdy's success is the fact that he started for 4 years at Iowa State and had 48 starts under his belt?

 

I really liked Hartman as a prospect and will be very interested to see how he does in a pro-style system at ND.

Building on your thought process though, is Stetson as a 4th/5th round pick.  Ive heard varying reports of his arm strength but Dilfer discussed him on a podcast today and said that he has more then enough arm for the NFL.  His concern was that there are very few QBs who are under 6 feet AND under 200 lbs.  Ironically we may have 2 this year depending on Bryce Young's height.

My interest in Bennet is that he is clearly a winner who comes from a pro-offense and is a good runner (will run sub 4.6).  Things are a bit different now that we dont have MLF calling the offense, but putting someone like bennett into a SF type system (Brock Purdy is 6.1 210) could be an interesting proposition and would not cost a lot of draft capital. 

I would not hate a QB room of Zach, Veteran QB and Bennett and see if Bennett can develop into a possible pro QB.

[bonkertons]

12 hours ago, win4ever said:

There's some few guys that really do a good job of stepping up in the pocket, Drake Maye is probably the best I've seen in college football (with actual potential), but Richardson is definitely interesting.  I'm just not sure we are going to be in a position to draft him, because I don't think we're spending No. 13 on him, and I don't know if he will drop to the second.  

In terms of upside, has that Allen feel, but Allen also looked much much worse coming out of college.  He made a ton of strides though as a passer, so Idk if we can hang our hat on that. 

There's a part of me that kinda wants to run it back and see if it's disaster or not, and just wait for the '24 class.  

I think there's honestly a chance that Richardson isn't even there at 13, the way things are going.  It's looking more and more like we might see 4 QBs go in the top-10:  HOU, IND, LV, CAR.  Even if it's only 3, I could see one of those teams taking a gamble on Richardson over Levis, who seems like the worst QB out of all the big names.

 

I think if it's Levis that drops to 13 I don't consider going QB at all.  If it's Richardson, I think you have to at least think about it. 

[win4ever]

2 hours ago, bonkertons said:

I think there's honestly a chance that Richardson isn't even there at 13, the way things are going.  It's looking more and more like we might see 4 QBs go in the top-10:  HOU, IND, LV, CAR.  Even if it's only 3, I could see one of those teams taking a gamble on Richardson over Levis, who seems like the worst QB out of all the big names.

 

I think if it's Levis that drops to 13 I don't consider going QB at all.  If it's Richardson, I think you have to at least think about it. 

It's hard to tell until all the combine/visits occur because honestly the biggest factor for Richardson is how he does at the whiteboard.   It's hard because if you select him in the first, you are basically in a corner where one of Wilson or Richardson HAS to stand out next year, which is a bad corner to be placed in.  I think they look more for second round or later guys that may have potential but it doesn't completely tie them in to this year.   

I would sit out the QB in the first this year, if anything, trade down if possible.  Collect assets for next year, sign a veteran (I kinda like a Minshew type), and hope new OC can improve Wilson.  

 

In terms of Wilson, he was always a projection pick, where he has the tools to succeed, but just can't seem to put it together.  Regardless of the system, I think the biggest hurdle for the new OC is to find a system in which Wilson actually understands the nuances, rather than just expecting 1-2 type plays.  

[derp]

2 hours ago, win4ever said:

It's hard to tell until all the combine/visits occur because honestly the biggest factor for Richardson is how he does at the whiteboard.   It's hard because if you select him in the first, you are basically in a corner where one of Wilson or Richardson HAS to stand out next year, which is a bad corner to be placed in.  I think they look more for second round or later guys that may have potential but it doesn't completely tie them in to this year.   

I would sit out the QB in the first this year, if anything, trade down if possible.  Collect assets for next year, sign a veteran (I kinda like a Minshew type), and hope new OC can improve Wilson.  

 

In terms of Wilson, he was always a projection pick, where he has the tools to succeed, but just can't seem to put it together.  Regardless of the system, I think the biggest hurdle for the new OC is to find a system in which Wilson actually understands the nuances, rather than just expecting 1-2 type plays.  

Curious if you agree - I think one of the big distinguishing factors between Richardson and Wilson is that Richardson's flashed an ability to manage the pocket that Wilson hasn't. I tend to think of pocket management as roughly as difficult to change as something like arm strength or accuracy and think it's at least as important as either of those things.

Totally agree Richardson would put them in a bind construction wise though. I don't think it's likely. Kind of wonder if it's something where they view him like the Ravens did with Lamar Jackson and they'd move back up for him if he slides late first but wouldn't take him at 13 kind of deal. Allows them to add another player but keep the door open. Overall just don't think it's especially likely. Moving Wilson would make roster construction easier but still think it'd be a stretch.

[win4ever]

19 hours ago, derp said:

Curious if you agree - I think one of the big distinguishing factors between Richardson and Wilson is that Richardson's flashed an ability to manage the pocket that Wilson hasn't. I tend to think of pocket management as roughly as difficult to change as something like arm strength or accuracy and think it's at least as important as either of those things.

Totally agree Richardson would put them in a bind construction wise though. I don't think it's likely. Kind of wonder if it's something where they view him like the Ravens did with Lamar Jackson and they'd move back up for him if he slides late first but wouldn't take him at 13 kind of deal. Allows them to add another player but keep the door open. Overall just don't think it's especially likely. Moving Wilson would make roster construction easier but still think it'd be a stretch.

I agree, pocket management is crucial for the transition because it really helps set the protection plans for the OL.  Right now with Wilson, the OL doesn't fully know how to block, because he runs east/west at the first sight of trouble.  A tackle is generally taught to keep the defender to the outside, but if Wilson runs outside, the tackle is actually assisting the defender to the QB.  This leads to a lot more in-between protection where they are trying to protect the outside and inside routes, which then come down to one on one talent, and bad OL will lose more often than not.  If you have a QB that can move up in the pocket, the OL can use leverage to redirect defenders away from the pocket, and buy time.  It doesn't matter the defensive end is better than you, if you can just lead him behind the pocket and he has to turn around and start again.  

I think it's a major issue now because there are too many guys that can escape the pocket in college, but can't do the same in the NFL.  Guys like Wilson/Darnold/Lawrence/ where they can run past the college defenders east/west and get to the edge.  This leads to guys not moving up in the pocket, but rather running outside of the pocket (or backwards to create more space) and that can lead to large sacks.  It allows defenders to speed rush the edge, and have the QB basically run right to them under pressure.  

Another aspect includes all the stunts that are pulled (especially Pats) where they rush 4 and drop back 7, but 3 are overloaded to one side.  Pre-snap looks normal, but post snap one of the lineman or LBs overload a side and create artificial pressure.  It creates a void on the other side to the front of the pocket, where it'll be one defender, but QBs have to take that step up and be able to run.  Partially the reason why Pats' defense can't seem to crack Allen/Mahomes, but also had trouble with Lamar/Fields.  If you have a running QB that can not only step up, but take those free yards, it changes the way they can play defense.   

I agree, I think pocket manipulation is a major asset in terms of QBs now.  It's almost too ingrained now to just run outside and find open space first.  It'll work if you are Allen/Lamar/Fields or even Murray where you have the athleticism to run past guys.  It doesn't work when your ability is at the Wilson/Darnold level where you can take some free yards, but you aren't doing much to make people miss in the open field.   

Yeah, the Richardson one is kind of a bind because I'm not sure they tie their jobs to one of Wilson/Richardson being the guy.  I think it makes sense for the franchise to try and see if one of them can step up, or free fall in the draft to qualify for a stud QB, but that would mean the people making the decisions would be fired.  I honestly don't even know what the Jets should do, need to see how FA shakes out.  The timing of the Wilson pick and his subsequent bad play has put them in a bind.