The surprisingly crazy numbers behind NY Jets OT Max Mitchell

[rangerous]

is he one of those big fish in a small pond type player? he was drafted high enough that he must have shown something.  the knock is he's not heavy enough but fant only weighs 20 lbs more. mitchell should be able to easily gain that much.  he's still growing.  we'll see.  hopefully he's better than edoga or mcdermott.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

30 minutes ago, rangerous said:

is he one of those big fish in a small pond type player? he was drafted high enough that he must have shown something.  the knock is he's not heavy enough but fant only weighs 20 lbs more. mitchell should be able to easily gain that much.  he's still growing.  we'll see.  hopefully he's better than edoga or mcdermott.

Connor Hughes
@Connor_J_Hughes
Max Mitchell says he’s gained 15 pounds. He’s up to 315 now. That was a goal of his. #Jets
3:36 PM · May 7, 2022

[Sperm Edwards]

On 5/18/2022 at 2:25 AM, jetstream23 said:

Extending Fant, even for just one year (2023), would be a smart move and give the Jets some optionality on Mitchell's development and Becton's cream cheesiness factor (as T0m describes it).  Get Fant a raise (he deserves it) and let him know he'd be guaranteed some money and commitment from the Jets so that he doens't have to worry about a Marcus Maye situation and getting hurt in a contract year.  This just seems like something that could get done.

In addition, since he isn't getting cut before week 1, such an extension guarantees him 2 more years on paper by effectively guaranteeing him 1 more additional year. Depends how it's structured, but if done right it could be just a 1-year extension.

Depends on Fant's demands, too, though I don't know how much leverage he has this offseason. He couldn't even stage a credible holdout -- that's for guys who'd get guaranteed pay raises if they suddenly became FAs. There are just too many tackles still available even today, chasing too few job openings. So if that extension comes only if they agree to demands guaranteeing $40MM over the next 2 years, he can enjoy his remaining contract season at 1/4 that amount, and hope he enters FA healthy.

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

is he one of those big fish in a small pond type player? he was drafted high enough that he must have shown something.  the knock is he's not heavy enough but fant only weighs 20 lbs more. mitchell should be able to easily gain that much.  he's still growing.  we'll see.  hopefully he's better than edoga or mcdermott.

ORT1 baby

[Maxman]

12 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Can you share the rest of the story?  What happened next?

@T0mShane what happened next?

I think he got drunk, fell asleep at the bar and I had to pay for his Uber home.

[Maxman]

18 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Imagine what Mawae would do to a teammate like Becton.

Share a room with him at the Pro Bowl?

[slimjasi]

18 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Imagine what Mawae would do to a teammate like Becton.

Mawae isn’t saying sh*t to Becton

 

Becton would sit on him, killing him instantly 

 

or simply eat him 

 

or both 

[SickJetFan]

On 5/18/2022 at 2:58 AM, bitonti said:

 

forgot that laken and avt are two different people 

Both left guards wearing 75

Imagine they do all this and avt struggles with rg? 

why would he struggle...its not rocket science

its not switching from safety to TE, or QB to CB, or madona now to madona 50 years ago.

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

why would he struggle...its not rocket science

its not switching from safety to TE, or QB to CB, or madona now to madona 50 years ago.

ok so why didn't they ask Laken to switch? if it's so easy? 

it should be not a problem but some guys can't do it. 

and when you do something for enough years you stop being able to switch on a dime 

Lane Johnson for example is always going to be a right tackle, even though he ran a 4.7 or whatever

George Fant is much better at LT than RT 

DBrick literally couldn't play RT at all 

AVT is young, and probably right handed, so most likely going to be fine

but there's always a risk 

 

[SickJetFan]

Just now, bitonti said:

ok so why didn't they ask Laken to switch? if it's so easy? 

it should be not a problem but some guys can't do it. 

and when you do something for enough years you stop being able to switch on a dime 

Lane Johnson for example is always going to be a right tackle, even though he ran a 4.7 or whatever

George Fant is much better at LT than RT 

DBrick literally couldn't play RT at all 

AVT is young, and probably right handed, so most likely going to be fine

but there's always a risk 

 

because Laklen is better and you put your best G on the Left.

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

because Laklen is better and you put your best G on the Left.

I'm not sure that's true, on either count 

AVT was their best lineman last year and probably a better player than Laken, who's best football is in the past

and you don't put your best guard on the left, guards play where they are comfortable 

but like I said, it shouldn't be a huge issue. It's harder to go from center to guard or to flip sides as a tackle 

[SickJetFan]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I'm not sure that's true, on either count 

AVT was their best lineman last year and probably a better player than Laken, who's best football is in the past

and you don't put your best guard on the left, guards play where they are comfortable 

but like I said, it shouldn't be a huge issue. It's harder to go from center to guard or to flip sides as a tackle 

AVT has potential to be better I would agree but right now I think AVT would even admit Laken better

 

as far as Left Right....I think history shows the best guards are on the left to help your best tackle protect QB blind side.

 

 

so agree to disagree on both points.

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

AVT has potential to be better I would agree but right now I think AVT would even admit Laken better

 

as far as Left Right....I think history shows the best guards are on the left to help your best tackle protect QB blind side.

 

 

so agree to disagree on both points.

Sorry bro if anything Right guard has a harder assignment than Left 

Quote

Without question the most difficult of the interior line positions, right guards are most likely to be left one-on-one with an elite inside rusher. The predominance of teams to slide their center to the left to protect the quarterback's blind side creates a greater value for the right guard position. Fourteen-year veteran Todd Steussie, currently available on the free agent market, says, "Right guard is definitely harder than left guard." Recently-retired lineman Todd Fordham, a 10-year NFL vet, agreed: "The left guard always has help."

Though the difference in value between the two guard spots is lessened somewhat in an offense that rarely slides the pass protections like the Colts, the strength of the formation often dictates that the right guard has the wider alignment, and thus more difficult assignment, on his side.

https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/04/04/oline-rankings

 

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Sorry bro if anything Right guard has a harder assignment than Left 

https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/04/04/oline-rankings

 

https://www.nfl.com/photos/gil-brandt-s-greatest-nfl-guards-of-all-time-0ap3000000816668#6094ff8a-6a3d-4f8b-ab67-16eab10d737d

01. LG
02. LG
03. ALL - but most as LG
04. LG
05. LG
06. ALL - but settled on LG
07. LG
08. RG
09. RG
10. RG
11. RG/LG
12. LG
13. RG
14. RG
15. LG
16. LG
17. RG?
18. LG
19. LT/LG
20. RG
21. LT/LG
22. LG
23. na - played in 40s
24. LG
25. LG
26. LG
27. LG
28. NA - played in 30s was FB too
29. LG
30. LG

2/3 played LG 

Im sure if you listed each current team and LG/RG you will find majority have better LG

[Jetsfan80]

15 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

as far as Left Right....I think history shows the best guards are on the left to help your best tackle protect QB blind side.

 

15 hours ago, bitonti said:

Sorry bro if anything Right guard has a harder assignment than Left 

https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/04/04/oline-rankings

 

14 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

Im sure if you listed each current team and LG/RG you will find majority have better LG

 

It's easiest just to follow the money on this one, gentlemen.  

Current highest paid LG's (excluding those still on rookie deals):

1. Joe Thuney, KC:  $16M per year
2. Joel Bitonio, CLE:  $16M
3. Laken Tomlinson, NYJ:  $13.3M
4. Andrus Peat, NO:  $11.5M
5. Cody Whitehair, CHI:  $10.3M
6. Matt Feiler, LAC:  $7M
7. Isaac Seumalo, PHI:  $5.9M
8. Justin Pugh, AZ:  $5.5M
9. Andrew Norwell, WAS:  $5M
10. Pat Elflein, CAR:  $4.5M

Average top 5 LG salary:  $13.4M

Average top 10 LG salary:  $9.5M

Median starting LG (Jon Feliciano, BUF) salary:  $3.3M

 

Current highest paid RG's:

1. Brandon Scherff, JAC:  $16.5M
2. Wyatt Teller, CLE:  $14.2M
3. Brandon Brooks, PHI:  $14.1M
4. Zack Martin, DAL:  $14M
5. Shaq Mason, TB:  $9M
6. Halapoulivaati Vaitai, DET:  $9M
7. James Daniels, PIT:  $8.3M
8. Austin Corbett, CAR:  $8.8M
9. Alex Cappa, $8.8M
10. Gabe Jackson, SEA:  $7.5M

Average top 5 RG salary:  $13.6M

Average top 10 RG salary:  $11M

Median starting RG (A.J. Cann, HOU/Denzelle Good, LVR) salary:  $4.2M

 

 

Looks like bitonti is correct on this one.  By basically all financial metrics, RG is the higher paid/more valuable position.  

The only area where LG beats RG is the top 2/3 at each position.  Thuney, Bitonio and Tomlinson make more, collectively, than Scherff, Teller, and Brooks.  But the further out you expand from there, RG's make more and it isn't really close.

[whodeawhodat]

43 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

 

It's easiest just to follow the money on this one, gentlemen.  

Current highest paid LG's (excluding those still on rookie deals):

1. Joe Thuney, KC:  $16M per year
2. Joel Bitonio, CLE:  $16M
3. Laken Tomlinson, NYJ:  $13.3M
4. Andrus Peat, NO:  $11.5M
5. Cody Whitehair, CHI:  $10.3M
6. Matt Feiler, LAC:  $7M
7. Isaac Seumalo, PHI:  $5.9M
8. Justin Pugh, AZ:  $5.5M
9. Andrew Norwell, WAS:  $5M
10. Pat Elflein, CAR:  $4.5M

Average top 5 LG salary:  $13.4M

Average top 10 LG salary:  $9.5M

Median starting LG (Jon Feliciano, BUF) salary:  $3.3M

 

Current highest paid RG's:

1. Brandon Scherff, JAC:  $16.5M
2. Wyatt Teller, CLE:  $14.2M
3. Brandon Brooks, PHI:  $14.1M
4. Zack Martin, DAL:  $14M
5. Shaq Mason, TB:  $9M
6. Halapoulivaati Vaitai, DET:  $9M
7. James Daniels, PIT:  $8.3M
8. Austin Corbett, CAR:  $8.8M
9. Alex Cappa, $8.8M
10. Gabe Jackson, SEA:  $7.5M

Average top 5 RG salary:  $13.6M

Average top 10 RG salary:  $11M

Median starting RG (A.J. Cann, HOU/Denzelle Good, LVR) salary:  $4.2M

 

 

Looks like bitonti is correct on this one.  By basically all financial metrics, RG is the higher paid/more valuable position.  

The only area where LG beats RG is the top 2/3 at each position.  Thuney, Bitonio and Tomlinson make more, collectively, than Scherff, Teller, and Brooks.  But the further out you expand from there, RG's make more and it isn't really close.

That Pat Elfliein is on this list removes all credibility.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, whodeawhodat said:

That Pat Elfliein is on this list removes all credibility.

Credibility of what, exactly?  

I think it just demonstrates that LG isn't all that valuable unless you're one of the few teams that has an elite one.

[#27TheDominator]

On 5/20/2022 at 2:29 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

In addition, since he isn't getting cut before week 1, such an extension guarantees him 2 more years on paper by effectively guaranteeing him 1 more additional year. Depends how it's structured, but if done right it could be just a 1-year extension.

Depends on Fant's demands, too, though I don't know how much leverage he has this offseason. He couldn't even stage a credible holdout -- that's for guys who'd get guaranteed pay raises if they suddenly became FAs. There are just too many tackles still available even today, chasing too few job openings. So if that extension comes only if they agree to demands guaranteeing $40MM over the next 2 years, he can enjoy his remaining contract season at 1/4 that amount, and hope he enters FA healthy.

Yeah.  I don't know what Fant would want.  I feel like Fant is a "fit" type of player.  He is good for what they want to do.  I don't think his market is the full 32 teams, so he might be the right type of player to extend, assuming we wouldn't be bidding ourselves up too high.

[whodeawhodat]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Credibility of what, exactly?  

I think it just demonstrates that LG isn't all that valuable unless you're one of the few teams that has an elite one.

mostly joking but for him to be on any top 10 list from what I saw when he was with us is laughable.

 

my $0.02

LG is a better pass pro and RG should be a mauler.  AVT is that dude.  We are splitting hairs on the top 10 list(dollars wise) when it doesnt include signing bonus guaranteed $ etc.  No, I am not asking you to provide that lol

10 years ago I said, give me 5 dudes at 300+ lbs across the Oline and I would be happy.  I am happy

[bitonti]

56 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

 

my $0.02

LG is a better pass pro and RG should be a mauler.  

Because the protection usually slides to the left (qb blind side) the rg is usually one on one on the back side while the LG has help from the center 

Also because the tight end is usually on the right side, the right guard will often have a bigger split and have to cover more ground than the LG 

A player like Quenton Nelson plays LG because he always played LG and it's a pain to ask guys to switch. The jets signed a guy who played LG for 10 years in laken so they are asking avt to switch 

As 80s list proves, it means more money to avt when the time comes 

[SickJetFan]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

 

It's easiest just to follow the money on this one, gentlemen.  

Current highest paid LG's (excluding those still on rookie deals):

1. Joe Thuney, KC:  $16M per year
2. Joel Bitonio, CLE:  $16M
3. Laken Tomlinson, NYJ:  $13.3M
4. Andrus Peat, NO:  $11.5M
5. Cody Whitehair, CHI:  $10.3M
6. Matt Feiler, LAC:  $7M
7. Isaac Seumalo, PHI:  $5.9M
8. Justin Pugh, AZ:  $5.5M
9. Andrew Norwell, WAS:  $5M
10. Pat Elflein, CAR:  $4.5M

Average top 5 LG salary:  $13.4M

Average top 10 LG salary:  $9.5M

Median starting LG (Jon Feliciano, BUF) salary:  $3.3M

 

Current highest paid RG's:

1. Brandon Scherff, JAC:  $16.5M
2. Wyatt Teller, CLE:  $14.2M
3. Brandon Brooks, PHI:  $14.1M
4. Zack Martin, DAL:  $14M
5. Shaq Mason, TB:  $9M
6. Halapoulivaati Vaitai, DET:  $9M
7. James Daniels, PIT:  $8.3M
8. Austin Corbett, CAR:  $8.8M
9. Alex Cappa, $8.8M
10. Gabe Jackson, SEA:  $7.5M

Average top 5 RG salary:  $13.6M

Average top 10 RG salary:  $11M

Median starting RG (A.J. Cann, HOU/Denzelle Good, LVR) salary:  $4.2M

 

 

Looks like bitonti is correct on this one.  By basically all financial metrics, RG is the higher paid/more valuable position.  

The only area where LG beats RG is the top 2/3 at each position.  Thuney, Bitonio and Tomlinson make more, collectively, than Scherff, Teller, and Brooks.  But the further out you expand from there, RG's make more and it isn't really close.

first off money does not mean better player...you should know this being a Jets fan

 

could simply mean been on the team longer and is older

 

 

secondly

why not listen to horses mouth.  Pay special attention to his last sentence.

 

https://www.newyorkjets.com/video/alijah-vera-tucker-we-have-an-opportunity-to-be-a-really-good-offensive-line

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, SickJetFan said:

first off money does not mean better player...you should know this being a Jets fan

 

could simply mean been on the team longer and is older

 

 

secondly

why not listen to horses mouth.  Pay special attention to his last sentence.

 

https://www.newyorkjets.com/video/alijah-vera-tucker-we-have-an-opportunity-to-be-a-really-good-offensive-line

 

 

Sample size removes those variables.  When the market pays a position more money on average, its because that position is more highly valued.  Period.  Whatever you want to take from that is up to you.  

[SickJetFan]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Sample size removes those variables.  When the market pays a position more money on average, its because that position is more highly valued.  Period.  Whatever you want to take from that is up to you.  

period this..... douche