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Rumor: Deshaun Watson 3-4 week suspension


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2 hours ago, Biggs said:

It is no where to be found in the Constitution.   It is implied by Judicial interpretation which of course can change.  

You are guilty if you are guilty, regardless of your rights at a moment in time under the criminal Justice system.  Innocent people are found guilty and guilty people are found not guilty on a regular basis even in the good old USA.

Not sure what this means.  Presumption of innocence has been a fundamental principle of our criminal law for >100 years.  Obviously findings are not always correct but you are not presumed guilty until you are proven (or falsely proven) to be.  This has not and will not change any time soon.

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6 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

So the masseuse cried at the end. Big deal. Happens all the time I'm sure...

and why did she cry? did he touch her? or did he ask for a happy ending? anything could have made her cry. 

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1 hour ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Not sure what this means.  Presumption of innocence has been a fundamental principle of our criminal law for >100 years.  Obviously findings are not always correct but you are not presumed guilty until you are proven (or falsely proven) to be.  This has not and will not change any time soon.

He used the term deemed innocent.  Presumption isn't deemed.  No court deeems anyone innocent.  You either are or your not.  

Basic Maranda rights aren't in the Constitution.  They became law of the land in 1966 and have been under attack ever since.  

What it means is these rights are established by precedent and can be changed in the blink of an eye.  A fundemental principle isn't the same thing as a Constitutional right that guaranteed.  Fundamental principles that aren't guaranteed in the Constitution can and do go away.

 

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6 hours ago, doitny said:

and why did she cry? did he touch her? or did he ask for a happy ending? anything could have made her cry. 

“Anything”

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Probably because the totally and definitely not corrupt courts refused to let them use those messages as evidence at the hearings.  Then the grand jury didn’t even ask an alarmingly large number of the victims for their own accounts of what happened.  In fact, they only needed to hear the account of one single victim to make their decision!  So crazy, am-I-right?!  There’s nooooooo funny business or bullsh*t going on here, no sir #FreeDeshaun #DeshaunDidntDoIt
CDA91244-5447-4FEA-BC76-CEAFFBCF0D1C.thumb.jpeg.3f85e4350900805ce37c1d25bb29cd16.jpeg
This is amazing if true.
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1 hour ago, Dunnie said:
On 5/17/2022 at 10:12 PM, Gastineau Lives said:
His last full season he was the best qb in football. 

Yeah ... I remember it well ... 4-12 I believe.

Yeah, if only he had thrown for 7000 yards on 90 percent completions, 45 tds and no interceptions the Texans would have been the best.

 

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7 hours ago, undertow said:

Meh let's be honest we live in a world now where everyone's opinions and principles are based on who they like and what they want the final outcome to be.

Alec Baldwin literally killed someone and got off scot free. Two sets of rules here. 

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1 hour ago, ZachEY said:

Biggs, you seem very well educated on this topic but one thing you’re obviously forgetting is that in the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate, yet equally important, groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.

Dun dun

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11 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Not sure what this means.  Presumption of innocence has been a fundamental principle of our criminal law for >100 years.  Obviously findings are not always correct but you are not presumed guilty until you are proven (or falsely proven) to be.  This has not and will not change any time soon.

And as long as you have enough money, you can buy justice.  This has not and will not change any time soon. 

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5 hours ago, the Claw said:

“Anything”

Irish implicated that since she cried Watson must be guilty of something bad. im saying thats might not be true. he could have ask her for Sex and she cried. making a women cry isnt proof you did something bad. any man who ever dated a women can agree to that.

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50 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

And as long as you have enough money, you can buy justice.  This has not and will not change any time soon. 

true but Watson money and Lawyer has done nothing so far cause its not gone that far.

Watsons money and Lawyer didnt stop the investigation, didnt stop it from becoming public, didnt make the jury not charge him. he would be in the same spot now if he had a legal aid lawyer. now if it goes to trail thats a different story. 

and you would think a jury of Texans would want to nail him to the cross for abandoning their team. there has got to be no love for Watson in that state.

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6 hours ago, doitny said:

true but Watson money and Lawyer has done nothing so far cause its not gone that far.

Watsons money and Lawyer didnt stop the investigation, didnt stop it from becoming public, didnt make the jury not charge him. he would be in the same spot now if he had a legal aid lawyer. now if it goes to trail thats a different story. 

and you would think a jury of Texans would want to nail him to the cross for abandoning their team. there has got to be no love for Watson in that state.

From what I know through a buddy who’s involved at Clemson is Watson basically turned into a total dickhead since he’s been in the league. He hired a Turtle without any of the endearing qualities to be his manager and has burned bridges at Clemson. Hell always be welcome back but he’s not well liked there anymore. As far as the case goes it didn’t surprise many that he thought he could just whip out his Johnson whenever he wanted. Just zero awareness of how anything works or what’s right/wrong. On the other hand when a pro athlete slides into your DM’s and you have a public profile he’s 100% trying to smash.

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Irish implicated that since she cried Watson must be guilty of something bad. im saying thats might not be true. he could have ask her for Sex and she cried. making a women cry isnt proof you did something bad. any man who ever dated a women can agree to that.
I believe asking any contracted employee for sex constitutes sexual harrasment which can be litigated ... any lawyer out there know for sure ?
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7 minutes ago, the Claw said:

They’re not dating though. It’s anecdotal, but in all my years of sport I’ve been to PTs, Massage Therapists, Acupuncturists, etc, I’ve never made one cry. Never seen anyone else make one cry. What appropriate conversation can one have with a professional -within an hour or so of meeting them- that leads to tears? Sure, I suppose Watson could have told her that her hair color was wrong for her face shape or that he thought her acne was gross. Sure. It’s possible. Just a bad day. On the rag, too emotional, weak, or whatever misogynistic bs you want to fill the blank with. 

Asking for sex in this situation is not freakin appropriate, dude. No matter how you want to spin it. There’s a power imbalance that you and others are completely ignoring. There may not be this concrete proof, but jesus christ Watson could nut on her face and there could STILL be no proof. That’s what makes these men and these crimes so dangerous. The more that we decide it’s all the woman’s fault, the less women are going to go the police and the more we embolden these sh*tty men to take advantage of the situation. 
 

I just hope that the women you guys care about never have to deal with a situation like this. I can tell you from experience, it can ruin everything. 

yes asking for sex is not appropriate in this situation but its still not a crime no matter how you want to spin it. i bet most of us the first time we heard the word " happy ending " it was talking about a massage parlor. 

and thats what this probably mostly is. the article that Moggelez posted says that there were 9 claims and only 2 had a high chance of indictment. and the GJ only wanted to heard from one of them. the NFL only wants to give a 3-4 game suspension. people who know more about this than any of us are telling us without speaking that this isnt the hideous crime everyone made it out to be. 

and i get it. its hard to change your mind when you make your mind up. the "hate JD " squad is still out there. they just got quiet cause they got nothing to say after the draft he had. but if we lose the first 2 games they will bring back the "Fire JD" thread in a second. if someone on there death bed said that they killed Ron and Nicole and it wasn't OJ nobody would believe them. for so long we believed that it was OJ that it wouldn't change our minds if that happened. 

and you talk about the women but what about the men? sons, fathers, brothers... do we not care about them? a man could be destroyed by this just as much as a women. thats why i dont jump to conclusions when a women cries. which BTW Watson has always said he didnt do anything right? but now he admits to making her cry. so if whatever made her cry was such a bad thing then he just made himself guilty of it yet nobody is talking about that.

what surprises me is that there are no leaks. our own government cant stop leaks yet the Watson investigation, the Watson Grand Jury, is sealed up so tight thats nobody is talking? you would think with Watson getting off that someone would be mad enough to leak something to turn the public against him. again this is another thing that points to it not being as bad as we all made it out to be.

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1 hour ago, Dunnie said:
10 hours ago, doitny said:
Irish implicated that since she cried Watson must be guilty of something bad. im saying thats might not be true. he could have ask her for Sex and she cried. making a women cry isnt proof you did something bad. any man who ever dated a women can agree to that.

I believe asking any contracted employee for sex constitutes sexual harrasment which can be litigated ... any lawyer out there know for sure ?

im not a lawyer but thats an interesting question. 

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2 hours ago, Dunnie said:
10 hours ago, doitny said:
Irish implicated that since she cried Watson must be guilty of something bad. im saying thats might not be true. he could have ask her for Sex and she cried. making a women cry isnt proof you did something bad. any man who ever dated a women can agree to that.

I believe asking any contracted employee for sex constitutes sexual harrasment which can be litigated ... any lawyer out there know for sure ?

I’m not a lawyer, but after some research, I’m pretty sure it is and can be as long as the proper paperwork has been filed before the massage which, in my experience, will be done before any legitimate massage place takes you on as a client.

I get massages 1-2 times every few months due to a slipped disc and sciatic pain, and have read through those intake forms.  They are VERY specific on what is, and is not, appropriate.

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13 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Alec Baldwin literally killed someone and got off scot free. Two sets of rules here. 

I’ve lived in Enniskillen for 31 years and only yesterday I found out that Matthew Broderick once killed two people on this very town. 

He got a £175 fine.

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I think the fundamental point that a lot of the Watson defenders are still not fully grasping is that, when a guy has 22 (unaffiliated) accusers, it’s hard for most rational people to not think that there is at least some truth to the accusations.

 

And then you remember that Big Ben initially got suspended for 6 games (which was subsequently reduced to 4) with (two?) accusers and you wonder how the NFL would sell less than 6 games to the public. 

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1 hour ago, doitny said:

yes asking for sex is not appropriate in this situation but its still not a crime no matter how you want to spin it. i bet most of us the first time we heard the word " happy ending " it was talking about a massage parlor. 

 

True, but we're not talking about Watson going to a rub and tug joint like Bob Kraft got caught at. These women weren't in fear of INS busting their massage parlor. 

If these were trained, legitimate, contracted massage therapists, as Mogglez notes, there may well have been forms and such outlining appropriate contact, and thus any request for sex could possibly be litigated as sexual harassment.  Maybe one of the actual lawyers on the site can weigh in. 

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16 hours ago, ZachEY said:

Biggs, you seem very well educated on this topic but one thing you’re obviously forgetting is that in the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate, yet equally important, groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.

My favorite part of that show is how every single case goes to trial. 

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They’re affiliated via Buzbee.

No, no, no. 

they are affiliated after the fact by way of their accusations. They didn’t know each other beforehand. That’s the point. 

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2 hours ago, doitny said:

yes asking for sex is not appropriate in this situation but its still not a crime no matter how you want to spin it. i bet most of us the first time we heard the word " happy ending " it was talking about a massage parlor. 

and thats what this probably mostly is. the article that Moggelez posted says that there were 9 claims and only 2 had a high chance of indictment. and the GJ only wanted to heard from one of them. the NFL only wants to give a 3-4 game suspension. people who know more about this than any of us are telling us without speaking that this isnt the hideous crime everyone made it out to be. 

and i get it. its hard to change your mind when you make your mind up. the "hate JD " squad is still out there. they just got quiet cause they got nothing to say after the draft he had. but if we lose the first 2 games they will bring back the "Fire JD" thread in a second. if someone on there death bed said that they killed Ron and Nicole and it wasn't OJ nobody would believe them. for so long we believed that it was OJ that it wouldn't change our minds if that happened. 

and you talk about the women but what about the men? sons, fathers, brothers... do we not care about them? a man could be destroyed by this just as much as a women. thats why i dont jump to conclusions when a women cries. which BTW Watson has always said he didnt do anything right? but now he admits to making her cry. so if whatever made her cry was such a bad thing then he just made himself guilty of it yet nobody is talking about that.

what surprises me is that there are no leaks. our own government cant stop leaks yet the Watson investigation, the Watson Grand Jury, is sealed up so tight thats nobody is talking? you would think with Watson getting off that someone would be mad enough to leak something to turn the public against him. again this is another thing that points to it not being as bad as we all made it out to be.

1. This isn’t a massage parlor and just because we all know what a “happy ending” is doesn’t give is the right to request one anytime we want. I’m no lawyer, but my guess is that there are situations where asking for a handy might get you in deep sh*t. 

2. No one wants people falsely accused. It’s horrible. I just wish you had as much empathy for the VAST majority as you do for the VAST minority. And for the record, I would gladly accept being wrongfully accused of sexual assault if it meant that my wife didn’t have to ACTUALLY be sexually assaulted. Twice. I might even consider it for a member of your family. Besides, there are plenty of instances of men getting away with it. Life isn’t always fair. 
 

3. what surprises me is that men still believe that 22 women are all in agreement that they will lie, cheat, steal and otherwise ruin the life of an innocent man and not 1 of them has had a change of heart. Oh yeah, that man is a professional quarterback who is quite accustomed to getting his way and holding lots of power. I’m sure treating women with the utmost respect is his MO. 
 

4. Situations like this almost always come down to power. So ask yourself, who has the power here? It’s very similar to “follow the money.” 
 

anyway, I’m not changing your mind so you said your piece, I said mine, lets end this. I dont wanna get this thread closed or get banned. Its not worth it.

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37 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

My favorite part of that show is how every single case goes to trial. 

My favorite part is where it's law school... for morons... as evidenced...

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17 hours ago, ZachEY said:

Biggs, you seem very well educated on this topic but one thing you’re obviously forgetting is that in the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate, yet equally important, groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.

Dun, Dun

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47 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

My favorite part is where it's law school... for morons... as evidenced...

Surprisingly light on Grand Jury content until you get to Season Twelve, however. 

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