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Pretty fair breakdown of Zach Wilson and second year QBs *WARNING PODCAST LINK*


T0mShane
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The Athletic Football Show podcast with Robert Mays and Nate Tice did a pretty comprehensive breakdown of the 2021 rookies, which I found pretty interesting, and you might, too! 
 
Highlights:
1. They loved Zach’s arm talent and compact, quick delivery (which they compared to Aaron Rodgers).
2. They were excited about his play against the Bucs zone defense.
3. Zach’s numbers against man to man and the blitz were, by far, the worst in the league, which they attribute to lack of familiarity with receivers and also the fact that his line at BYU was comically good.
3. Tice said that Zach is, and always was, a project who probably wasn’t ready to play. Had no plan on any particular play and was only good on plays where he had his first read.
4. They loved LaFleur’s scheme and raved about the talent he has around him this upcoming year.
Starts around the 20 minute mark.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-athletic-football-show-a-show-about-the-nfl/id1528622068?i=1000562761323
 
Pretty much exactly how I feel ... the potential and possible ceiling height is considerable... needs to be developed ... which is why I have and will continue to say ... this is on Saleh in a huge way.
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54 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The Athletic Football Show podcast with Robert Mays and Nate Tice did a pretty comprehensive breakdown of the 2021 rookies, which I found pretty interesting, and you might, too! 
 

Highlights:

1. They loved Zach’s arm talent and compact, quick delivery (which they compared to Aaron Rodgers).

2. They were excited about his play against the Bucs zone defense.

3. Zach’s numbers against man to man and the blitz were, by far, the worst in the league, which they attribute to lack of familiarity with receivers and also the fact that his line at BYU was comically good.

3. Tice said that Zach is, and always was, a project who probably wasn’t ready to play. Had no plan on any particular play and was only good on plays where he had his first read.

4. They loved LaFleur’s scheme and raved about the talent he has around him this upcoming year.

Starts around the 20 minute mark.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-athletic-football-show-a-show-about-the-nfl/id1528622068?i=1000562761323

 

I’m half way through and loving it.  Very fair and it’s kind of summing up the argument from last season - but they have the stats to sharpen the argument for us. 
 

I didn’t know the stats but I’d scream “He looks so good against the zone, that’s who he is and will be as he grows!!! He is adding parts to that better game! 

And then how bad he is against man to man and to other stuff and that’s what he is to others.  

I’m more glad then ever he ran the Bucs into the defense he did when they played the Jags.  I was trying to make that argument before the Bucs game and it was a tougher sell when it wasn’t all strung together in one game lol.  

They pointed out what we all knew as well, the receivers to end the season were terrible and this should be better.  

I’m glad the off-season moves show a potential path to a good team now.   Should be fun! 

 

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Wilson also admitted he had to adjust to the speed of the pro game and we saw how he seemed to play better the last month.  All he needs to do is not force the ball and take what defenses give, there’s finally legit weapons to help wilson feel he doesn’t have to do it all himself.

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20 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Excellent highlights.  I’ll give the full listen later. Points 3 & 4 are so very important to note.  I said it in my write-up on the QBs last year, but Zach (along with Fields and Lance) was always raw, and it was unfair for any team to presume otherwise.  The only “ready to go” QB was Lawrence, and he struggled as well.  The only gripe I have with point 3 is that Zach did improve against the blitz, and it showed within that same Tampa Bay game.  It’s a small complaint because a rookie not seeing, or recognizing, a blitz isn’t uncommon.  If it’s happening mid year 2 and year 3, you have a Darnold on your hands.

As for point 4, my preference for Wilson was always for him to sit and learn but, I will say, the experience he did gain from going through the ups and downs in the Shanny/LaFleur system should be beyond valuable to him.  A kid with his physical talent has the ability to take a monster leap if he masters the intricacies of the system.

Finally, there are no excuses for him this season (as of today, as injuries before the opener are always possible).  There is legitimate NFL talent all over the place on offense.  He needs to grow with the team, not hold it back, ala Sanchez.  Do I expect perfection?  No.  Do I want to see marked improvement before declaring him our franchise QB?  Yes.

If Lawrence was the only "ready to go" QB, then that only further emboldens how worthless the conventional wisdom is on these things. It's just really hard to evaluate college QBs and project how things will go at the next level.  

We also simply know very little about these QBs after 1 season in which they all played in different circumstances. Years 2-3 are decisive. 

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The Athletic Football Show podcast with Robert Mays and Nate Tice did a pretty comprehensive breakdown of the 2021 rookies, which I found pretty interesting, and you might, too! 
 

Highlights:

1. They loved Zach’s arm talent and compact, quick delivery (which they compared to Aaron Rodgers).

2. They were excited about his play against the Bucs zone defense.

3. Zach’s numbers against man to man and the blitz were, by far, the worst in the league, which they attribute to lack of familiarity with receivers and also the fact that his line at BYU was comically good.

3. Tice said that Zach is, and always was, a project who probably wasn’t ready to play. Had no plan on any particular play and was only good on plays where he had his first read.

4. They loved LaFleur’s scheme and raved about the talent he has around him this upcoming year.

Starts around the 20 minute mark.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-athletic-football-show-a-show-about-the-nfl/id1528622068?i=1000562761323

 

i got to say im pretty shocked you said something nice about Zach. not even one joke in the whole post . LOL

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Great post. I’ll hopefully be able to listen at some point today. Based on your key takeaways, I likely will agree with their opinion. I loved Zach as a prospect and still think he will be legit. But I probably didn't appreciate that he wasn't ready to play right away.

It’s odd that he was better against zone defenses though. Wouldnt those be more complicated to read than straight man coverage?

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50 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Of the guys they covered, Zach Wilson was clearly the guy whom they had the least hope for.

I'd argue they were "meh" about Mills 

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6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They mostly kill him in the podcast and then jump right into talking about how awesome Fields is going to be, so I wanted to bait the homers into listening to it so they can learn something about how real men watch the game of football. 

Can real men spot a 1st team all pro player?

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 

1. They loved Zach’s arm talent 

3. Tice said that Zach is, and always was, a project who probably wasn’t ready to play. Had no plan on any particular play 

Zach has a great arm he just needs to keep his feet on the ground when he throws. And learn how to read a defense 

He wasn't ready to play. If playing time wasn't so driven by marketing and contracts, and the long term vision or whatever, Josh Johnson was the real qb 1 last year followed by Mike white. Flacco is the guy you hire when you don't want Zach to feel threatened 

This year everybody is assuming "a great leap of forward" but he hasn't earned it yet 

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9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They mostly kill him in the podcast and then jump right into talking about how awesome Fields is going to be, so I wanted to bait the homers into listening to it so they can learn something about how real men watch the game of football. 

 

8 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Great post. I’ll hopefully be able to listen at some point today. Based on your key takeaways, I likely will agree with their opinion. I loved Zach as a prospect and still think he will be legit. But I probably didn't appreciate that he wasn't ready to play right away.

It’s odd that he was better against zone defenses though. Wouldn't those be more complicated to read than straight man coverage?

These two posts being back to back are comedy gold. 

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6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They mostly kill him in the podcast and then jump right into talking about how awesome Fields is going to be, so I wanted to bait the homers into listening to it so they can learn something about how real men watch the game of football. 

Fiends was actually the guy I wanted to take at 2, but all things considered, I’d rather be Wilson right now than Fields 

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12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They mostly kill him in the podcast and then jump right into talking about how awesome Fields is going to be, so I wanted to bait the homers into listening to it so they can learn something about how real men watch the game of football. 

I'm a Homer in good standing and I dug what I heard as I found it fair. None of the bad things they said about him were theoretically unfixable, and the positives were about things few qbs in the league have. 

I mean I guess the conversation about whether or not Mac Jones has already maxed out his potential could be stimulating to some but I like whiskey in my coffee.

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21 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

If Lawrence was the only "ready to go" QB, then that only further emboldens how worthless the conventional wisdom is on these things. It's just really hard to evaluate college QBs and project how things will go at the next level.  

We also simply know very little about these QBs after 1 season in which they all played in different circumstances. Years 2-3 are decisive. 

Meh, I dont distinctly remember Mogglez take but the conventional wisdom got sh*t all over last year leading up to the draft when Wilson suddenly became really truly, QB1 because something something and Chris Simms.  Very convenient to pretend like that wasnt the narrative and that Jets fans didnt sh*t themselves trying so hard to validate their draft opinion because of a few plays during the preseason.

Reality was, Wilson was nowhere near ready and the scary part is, we dont really know that anything has changed.  He went from worst starting QB I've ever seen type trajectory, to a barely passable starter.  So while I guess that's encouraging, it also tells you absolutely nothing about what to expect from Wilson this year.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They mostly kill him in the podcast and then jump right into talking about how awesome Fields is going to be, so I wanted to bait the homers into listening to it so they can learn something about how real men watch the game of football. 

ewwww, now I might listen.  lol

Unlike Zach, I think Fields at least verified, for the most part, what you knew about him going in.  Big play QB who has incredible downfield accuracy but might struggle with pressure because of Ohio St. offense and probably need a year to learn but you'll take with Fields because he is so smart and such a freak and you've seen him deliver big stage clutch performances that you expect that piece to be fixed somewhat easily but I just dont know if the Bears did enough to help him.  

Unfortunately, we have no clue what Zach is and every Jets fans is just praying the predaft hype comes true but fortunately, JD has loaded up this offense and I think the Jets will be a top 5-10 running team this year so hopefully, the emphasis on Wilson making the year 2 jump isnt as necessary to overall team success as maybe it is for Fields and the Bears and even Lawrence and the Jags for that matter. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Meh, I dont distinctly remember Mogglez take but the conventional wisdom got sh*t all over last year leading up to the draft when Wilson suddenly became really truly, QB1 because something something and Chris Simms.  Very convenient to pretend like that wasnt the narrative and that Jets fans didnt sh*t themselves trying so hard to validate their draft opinion because of a few plays during the preseason.

Reality was, Wilson was nowhere near ready and the scary part is, we dont really know that anything has changed.  He went from worst starting QB I've ever seen type trajectory, to a barely passable starter.  So while I guess that's encouraging, it also tells you absolutely nothing about what to expect from Wilson this year.

 

 

Not sure how most of this  is relevant to my point - which is that the conventional wisdom regarding college QB prospects is largely unreliable.

further, I doubt very many jets fans would have actually drafted Wilson over Lawrence, despite some claims to the contrary. Lawrence was always the golden boy and he had as disappointing a rookie season as anybody. 
 

Also, “worst starting QB I’ve ever seen type trajectory” is pretty silly after a handful of games (5 complete games pre-injury?), even for a Wilson skeptic. 

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3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

ewwww, now I might listen.  lol

Unlike Zach, I think Fields at least verified, for the most part, what you knew about him going in.  Big play QB who has incredible downfield accuracy but might struggle with pressure because of Ohio St. offense and probably need a year to learn but you'll take with Fields because he is so smart and such a freak and you've seen him deliver big stage clutch performances that you expect that piece to be fixed somewhat easily but I just dont know if the Bears did enough to help him.  

Unfortunately, we have no clue what Zach is and every Jets fans is just praying the predaft hype comes true but fortunately, JD has loaded up this offense and I think the Jets will be a top 5-10 running team this year so hopefully, the emphasis on Wilson making the year 2 jump isnt as necessary to overall team success as maybe it is for Fields and the Bears and even Lawrence and the Jags for that matter. 

 

 

LMAO you are such a Fields fanboy 

 

(hint - we have no clue what Fields is, either)

 

funny stuff 

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36 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They mostly kill him in the podcast and then jump right into talking about how awesome Fields is going to be, so I wanted to bait the homers into listening to it so they can learn something about how real men watch the game of football. 

This is ironic because Mays is a Bears fan. 

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