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Collinsworth intrigued by the Jets


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10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Thank you for providing this information that proves the trend 

 

Andy Reid rushed it 25 times a game in 2021

your point is invalid 

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Of the "also ran" teams I'd say that we're more likely to surprise some teams next year than say Chicago, Houston or Detroit. So I get the basic premise of us potentially being "that team". But a Cincinnati like turnaround is probably stretching the realms of credibility. If we ended up 8-9 or 9-8 that would be quite a significant step forward in itself.

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There's only two ways to talk about the Jets:

1) Zack plays as bad in yr 2, which leaves nothing else to talk about.

2) Zack makes the big jump we expect all rookie QBs to make. NOW we have a ton of good things to talk about with the Jets and their good FA pickups and hands down winning the 2022 draft plus guys like Becton and Lawson coming back. Picking option 2) is what lets you make those Bengals/Burrows type predictions. 

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3 hours ago, Alka said:

Forgive me for correcting you, but it is:  "Seeing the forest through the trees."  Can he see the forest through the trees?  Or does he just see trees. 

Find the original or one's own preferred version online, however one would prefer, but to the best of my knowledge generally it's stated as the reverse: describing one who "misses [or can't see] the forest for the trees."

  • i.e. one misses noticing a whole there's a whole forest by being hyper-focusing on individual trees (or properties of any individual trees). 

I don't know what he means by sees the forest for the trees. That's not a complimentary saying/expression so far as I'm aware, but I've been wrong before. In that inverse/positive case, the phrase he's better searching for is Gestalt Theory: the whole is greater than the sum of the parts (or whatever exact wording one prefers to similarly modern-it up from the original).

  • IOW: as the Jets have added an individual upgrade here or there, the overall impact will be additive and not limited to just that player's individual upgrade. e.g. two CB upgrades should help the whole defense aggregately, and not just those called pass plays (the dual-CB upgrades affect the type of pass play called, whether a pass or run might be called in the first place, how quickly the D gets off the field, fewer points putting less stress on the offense, etc.). 

Regardless, thank you for this opportunity to play the part of the smug, obnoxious know-it-all. My day wasn't going so great thus far, so I owe you one. 😃

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Find the original or one's own preferred version online, however one would prefer, but to the best of my knowledge generally it's stated as the reverse: describing one who "misses [or can't see] the forest for the trees."

  • i.e. one misses noticing a whole there's a whole forest by being hyper-focusing on individual trees (or properties of any individual trees). 

I don't know what he means by sees the forest for the trees. That's not a complimentary saying/expression so far as I'm aware, but I've been wrong before. In that inverse/positive case, the phrase he's better searching for is Gestalt Theory: the whole is greater than the sum of the parts (or whatever exact wording one prefers to similarly modern-it up from the original).

  • IOW: as the Jets have added an individual upgrade here or there, the overall impact will be additive and not limited to just that player's individual upgrade. e.g. two CB upgrades should help the whole defense aggregately, and not just those called pass plays (the dual-CB upgrades affect the type of pass play called, whether a pass or run might be called in the first place, how quickly the D gets off the field, fewer points putting less stress on the offense, etc.). 

Regardless, thank you for this opportunity to play the part of the smug, obnoxious know-it-all. My day wasn't going so great thus far, so I owe you one. 😃

Also, there's no "H" in Becton. @32EBoozer

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51 minutes ago, jamesr said:

I don't think people honestly expect a true "ground and pound" approach from the 2022 Jets ... more of a "run first" mentality, yes - but not a team that runs it for 3 / 4 / 5 yards and a cloud of dust every time and only throws out of necessity. 

What we won't be is a team that has Zach throwing 35 - 40 times every week and looking for him to air it out all over the field. He'll be expected to make a difference, but also to make use of the players around him and not try to do it all himself.

I can live with all that but it makes Zach sound more like Trent dilfer than Aaron Rodgers 

Is he a game manager or a franchise qb? They did not need to spend 2 overall the highest pick since Keyshawn on a manager 

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27 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Find the original or one's own preferred version online, however one would prefer, but to the best of my knowledge generally it's stated as the reverse: describing one who "misses [or can't see] the forest for the trees."

  • i.e. one misses noticing a whole there's a whole forest by being hyper-focusing on individual trees (or properties of any individual trees). 

I don't know what he means by sees the forest for the trees. That's not a complimentary saying/expression so far as I'm aware, but I've been wrong before. In that inverse/positive case, the phrase he's better searching for is Gestalt Theory: the whole is greater than the sum of the parts (or whatever exact wording one prefers to similarly modern-it up from the original).

  • IOW: as the Jets have added an individual upgrade here or there, the overall impact will be additive and not limited to just that player's individual upgrade. e.g. two CB upgrades should help the whole defense aggregately, and not just those called pass plays (the dual-CB upgrades affect the type of pass play called, whether a pass or run might be called in the first place, how quickly the D gets off the field, fewer points putting less stress on the offense, etc.). 

Regardless, thank you for this opportunity to play the part of the smug, obnoxious know-it-all. My day wasn't going so great thus far, so I owe you one. 😃

I was busting someone's balls in the Ranger thread on Sunday for just the same reason.

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51 minutes ago, FootballLove said:

There's only two ways to talk about the Jets:

1) Zack plays as bad in yr 2, which leaves nothing else to talk about.

2) Zack makes the big jump we expect all rookie QBs to make. NOW we have a ton of good things to talk about with the Jets and their good FA pickups and hands down winning the 2022 draft plus guys like Becton and Lawson coming back. Picking option 2) is what lets you make those Bengals/Burrows type predictions. 

No.  There are so many variables.  Just say we have a run game capable of controlling and deciding games while our D shuts down opponent drives at a good rate.  Zack only needs to be decent to average for us to win a lot of games.  
 

Frankly I think our TEs and run game may show us something we haven’t seen before and Zach might be able to shine with just average play.  

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35 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Also, there's no "H" in Becton. @32EBoozer

I just looked up Becton's family tree on Ancestry.com. His family name is derived from  Beauregard Bechton a Civil War abolishinist.

The family changed their name in the early 1900's to  Becton because white supremacist groups harrassed the family over the inclusion of the letter "H" in their name...... Some people

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6 hours ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

I think people need to slow down a bit. The Jets did well in FA and had a great draft. This instant success that’s is being pushed and is expected is premature. We have a lot of new players on the team, I am not expecting them to all gel by the first few weeks of the season. First and foremost we need to be healthy going into the season, this instant success as we all know is fools gold when it comes to the Jets. 
 

Just because we put together what appears to be a competent team doesn’t mean it’s going to equate to immediate success. I just want to see steady progression, enough with being the next Bengals etc as we know where that mindset has got us before, angry and disappointed. Woody’s marketing, social media team is doing a great job hyping up Jet fans just as he did last year, then the season started. 

It is as you guys are saying not a great comparison. Borrow cam back from a horrific know injury and played awesome. Chase is an all world WR, and the rest of the the O skill players played great as well. And their D was very under rated. 

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

I can live with all that but it makes Zach sound more like Trent dilfer than Aaron Rodgers 

Is he a game manager or a franchise qb? They did not need to spend 2 overall the highest pick since Keyshawn on a manager 

I was thinking more along the lines of Garropolo (or maybe Tannehill?) rather than Dilfer. But not as a ceiling, more of a step up the ladder in Year 2.

Rodgers / Mahomes would be fab, but I'm trying to keep my expectations reasonable. ;-)  

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3 hours ago, bitonti said:

Your point is to ground and point to protect ZW? That's a dead philosophy. 

Ok now that you’ve admitted that you are wrong, let me make my point more obvious for you, even though I stated it clearly. chew clock keep drives going. 
 

Also not a bad idea for an outdoor northeast team. 
 

Rushing the ball will always be a part of NFL football.  
 

the Mike Martz system didn’t last because it gets your QB killed. 
 

Running it wears a defense out, that will never change 

 

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7 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Collinsworth sees the forest for the trees.  Its obviously at this point where this team is going.

Get ready Jet fans!!  Its happening!!!!!!!!!!!

It may well be. I don’t see a jump similar to the Bengals just yet though.

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6 hours ago, Jethead said:

I like Collinsworth.

Collinsworth/Michaels team was way better than Romo/Nantz or Aikman/Buck. Could be because Michaels is 100x better than Nantz (worst in sports, Pats ballwasher) or Buck. But Romo's mojo has worn off and Troy seems tired. Maybe he will do better with a change of network

They are all Godawful

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8 hours ago, Alka said:

Forgive me for correcting you, but it is:  "Seeing the forest through the trees."  Can he see the forest through the trees?  Or does he just see trees. 

Actually it depends on the season. It’s much easier seeing the forest through the trees during winter when the leaves have fallen. 

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4 hours ago, Dupe said:

No.  There are so many variables.  Just say we have a run game capable of controlling and deciding games while our D shuts down opponent drives at a good rate.  Zack only needs to be decent to average for us to win a lot of games.  
 

Frankly I think our TEs and run game may show us something we haven’t seen before and Zach might be able to shine with just average play.  

 

4 hours ago, Dupe said:

No.  There are so many variables.  Just say we have a run game capable of controlling and deciding games while our D shuts down opponent drives at a good rate.  Zack only needs to be decent to average for us to win a lot of games.  
 

Frankly I think our TEs and run game may show us something we haven’t seen before and Zach might be able to shine with just average play.  

image.thumb.jpeg.d2a3a0f088def5dc1ffbefa2eb6e035c.jpeg

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7 hours ago, bitonti said:

You just put up numbers that prove on average, the entire league is rushing less than 10 years ago 

I'm too lazy to dig out ppg numbers but all the rule changes since Rex Era has been to favor the passing game and points being scored quickly, hopefully in sportscenter highlights 

Yes There is a Jalen hurts / Lamar Jackson rpo model that some teams subscribe to but those teams aren't winning hardware either. And Zach isn't Lamar Jackson 

I agree The Jets should maybe run more than they did last year but teams can't ground and pound their way to victory anymore. It really has to be Zach that does it 

And JD knows this. The selection of sauce at 4 tells us everything we need to know about the importance of passing in 2022.

I’m not trying to be a wise ass or anything, but I really don’t understand the logic here. Obviously the league is favoring the passing game for the excitement factor, but if a team can essentially run on anyone, why would that equate to less wins? You don’t get more points for a td pass, you just do it in less time. Help me understand what you’re saying.

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1 hour ago, the Claw said:

I’m not trying to be a wise ass or anything, but I really don’t understand the logic here. Obviously the league is favoring the passing game for the excitement factor, but if a team can essentially run on anyone, why would that equate to less wins? You don’t get more points for a td pass, you just do it in less time. Help me understand what you’re saying.

The running will help a team win a couple more games. It's an outdated way to try to win a championship

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1 hour ago, the Claw said:

I’m not trying to be a wise ass or anything, but I really don’t understand the logic here. Obviously the league is favoring the passing game for the excitement factor, but if a team can essentially run on anyone, why would that equate to less wins? You don’t get more points for a td pass, you just do it in less time. Help me understand what you’re saying.

The titans were the #1 seed in the AFC being a running team.  Run that rock baby!!!  Breece and MC are going to be a force to be reckoned with.

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4 hours ago, UnknownJetFan said:

It is as you guys are saying not a great comparison. Borrow cam back from a horrific know injury and played awesome. Chase is an all world WR, and the rest of the the O skill players played great as well. And their D was very under rated. 

I hate to say this but the Bengals comparison hinges on QB -  Burrow is really good.  

He was really good as rookie as well.

And last year he was really good playing behind a putrid O-line.

If Zach is really good, the Bengals comparison holds.

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12 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

The titans were the #1 seed in the AFC being a running team.  Run that rock baby!!!  Breece and MC are going to be a force to be reckoned with.

Yes!

A strong running game has allowed QBs to prosper and put up numbers… Tannehill, Garapolo, and Goff (with Gurley.)

The old ground and pound is now -  Ground, Pound, and Pass

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12 hours ago, Trotter said:

Yup. In a strange way I prefer it when everyone thinks we are terrible. All the positive hype is nice - but makes many of us nervous as we have seen this before.

Hopefully and all the signs are there that it could be different this time - but our history says otherwise. 

I easily prefer it!

 

the jets almost never live up to expectations 

 

better to go in quietly and sneak up on teams 

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12 hours ago, bitonti said:

charlie brown lucy GIF by Maudit

 

"they beat the crap out of Cincinnati" 

If memory serves they were down by 11 with like 7 minutes left and then everything broke right 

Play that game 100 times that come back happens maybe once or twice 

They did not beat the crap out of the Bengals. The Bengals took their foot off the gas and the Jets stole one 

 

"it obviously all comes down to Zach wilson, but... " 

People just skate by this one. Maybe because of all the help they got him, or some version of the offense that breece hall becomes Adrian Peterson 

But it really is all about the QB and always has been. Jets fans see his potential but potential does not win games 

Ummmmmmm I’m offended by this iconography and that is all I will say….

 

:(

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19 hours ago, bitonti said:

You just put up numbers that prove on average, the entire league is rushing less than 10 years ago 

I'm too lazy to dig out ppg numbers but all the rule changes since Rex Era has been to favor the passing game and points being scored quickly, hopefully in sportscenter highlights 

Yes There is a Jalen hurts / Lamar Jackson rpo model that some teams subscribe to but those teams aren't winning hardware either. And Zach isn't Lamar Jackson 

I agree The Jets should maybe run more than they did last year but teams can't ground and pound their way to victory anymore. It really has to be Zach that does it 

And JD knows this. The selection of sauce at 4 tells us everything we need to know about the importance of passing in 2022.

So the Tennessee offense with Derrek Henry isn’t viable in this league?

Id argue that an offense like Tenn or Baltimores are more effective bc most league defenses are geared up to stop the pass with quicker smaller guys that aren’t as effective stopping the run.  Bosa  getting steamrolled by Becton comes to mind.

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On 5/20/2022 at 2:10 PM, bitonti said:

I can live with all that but it makes Zach sound more like Trent dilfer than Aaron Rodgers 

Is he a game manager or a franchise qb? They did not need to spend 2 overall the highest pick since Keyshawn on a manager 

Did you expect him to go from last years performance to Aaron Rodgers level in one year?  Is that honestly a reasonable expectation?   Id say thats a best case scenario but if he could run at a level of Tannehill this year that would be a real positive trend and maybe a springboard to Rodgers levels in 2023. 

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I think people are sleeping on Detroit.  They have a proven , perfectly average QB, capable of putting up big games, with decent weapons.

Similar to the reasons the Jets could surprise.

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On 5/20/2022 at 10:16 AM, slimjasi said:

Nothing worse than being hyped up before you’ve won anything.

We should be better, but let’s hold off on comparisons to the Bengals until we can win a divisional game.

 

Um no. Being the consensus selection to win 2 games is much worse. Don't ask me how I know.

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