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One reason why we should sweep the Cheats this year ...


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any given sunday, as the saying goes.  true the patsies aren't nearly the dominant team of the brady years but the bellichicken can still put together winning game plans and knos how to make those in game adjustments.  and it's not like the jets much greater personnel talent.  they've improved but until they start playing as a team it doesn't matter much.

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1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

They're a well coached team that is always prepared, has a great game plan, and won't beat themselves. They're ready to pounce if you want to beat yourself, the way Zach Wilson did Week 2 last year.

But they're just not that talented of a team. Brady is gone. They're not "special" anymore.

Getting swept by them yet again just isn't acceptable.

Their "fantasy" positions aren't special that's true. but they have a very tough defense and an underrated offensive line 

Wynn - Cole Strange - Andrews - Onwenu - Trent Brown 

Onwenu was a friggin steal, borderline pro bowl dude and if Trent Brown is in a game, he's impacting it  

they have certain position groups that can pull weight tight end for example Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith that's a sick duo for any roster 

 

beyond the roster it's the Patriots' program 

the Jets are trying to build a program and we all support that 

but their program is in year 20. yes it's on a decline but the Jets' "Saleh" program is in year 2

more importantly the Pats never sleep on the Jets 

BB loathes this franchise  

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1 hour ago, Bungaman said:

IIRC, this guy Orlovsky is usually a Cheats ball washer - but this time, I think he's right on target:

The offense should scare no one 

Matt Patricia? Joe Judge? 1280437114_judgessay0.gif.c8f9605feabdd54c01a7b7e9361ff420.gif

There is a little to unpack here.

First, his point is valid.  Especially, with the Patriots not naming any specific offensive coach position.  If you need a bad example of this, the Patriots' D from 2021 is one.  It was not necessarily the lack of talent, which was an issue to a degree, but the 'too many men on the field', bad penalties or simple mistakes the Patriots' D kept doing over and over.    

Second, the biggest hole is his argument is the assumed transference of knowledge.  Ken Dorsey's biggest strength is having Josh Allen.  He might be better than Patricia/Judge, but he has not done jack yet.  The same with Mike Lafleur.  Belichick is the G.O.A.T. of coaches.  Does not mean I am happy his kids are on the staff.  Outside of sharing a last name, what have they done?  Similar to Dorsey, Mike McDaniel might be a very good HC.  I am sure he is brining in a lot of Shanahan's concepts.  However, he is making a leap from running game coordinator to HC of the MIA.  In addition to that, he is going to be teaching his OC these concepts.  There is going to be a learning curve.

Last, you do not know what the Patriots offense is going to be?  Really?  Go look at last year's game film.  It is essentially going to be the same thing.  A run heavy game plan with a smattering of new weapons for Mac in Devante Parker and Tyquan Thornton.  Plus, we will have a legit third down back again who is not a career core special teamer.  

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29 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Their "fantasy" positions aren't special that's true. but they have a very tough defense and an underrated offensive line 

Wynn - Cole Strange - Andrews - Onwenu - Trent Brown 

Onwenu was a friggin steal, borderline pro bowl dude and if Trent Brown is in a game, he's impacting it  

they have certain position groups that can pull weight tight end for example Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith that's a sick duo for any roster 

I agree but they aren't a team we should be completely overmatched against. Having an offense with that little skill talent score 50+ against us last year was disgraceful. Jonnu Smuth was a non-factor for them last year.

29 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 

beyond the roster it's the Patriots' program 

the Jets are trying to build a program and we all support that 

but their program is in year 20. yes it's on a decline but the Jets' "Saleh" program is in year 2

more importantly the Pats never sleep on the Jets 

BB loathes this franchise  

Agree with all of that -- specifically that BB always wants to turn the screws to us even when we suck.

I just don't think that's an excuse. Talent wise I don't think we're far apart from them at all -- I almost think we're better.

If they kick our ass x2 again it's a huge indictment of Saleh and Wilson.

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Its en vogue to bash the Pats now.  If you didnt bash the offense last year, you cant bash it this year.  They have a very good oline, very good running game, decent receivers and tight ends.

They have more then enough weapons to win 10 games and make the playoffs this year.  With Mac Jones in year 2 and adding Davante Parker, their offense is better then last years version.

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2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

They're a well coached team that is always prepared, has a great game plan, and won't beat themselves. They're ready to pounce if you want to beat yourself, the way Zach Wilson did Week 2 last year.

But they're just not that talented of a team. Brady is gone. They're not "special" anymore.

Getting swept by them yet again just isn't acceptable.

I have a recurring wet dream where the Jets just keep running up the score on them in an endless game. 

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4 minutes ago, DonCorleone said:

I have a recurring wet dream where the Jets just keep running up the score on them in an endless game. 

I was exceptionally jealous of the Bills just annihilating them in humiliating fashion in the playoffs last year in front of a raucous home crowd. That's been a fantasy of mine for a long time.

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6 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

If they kick our ass x2 again it's a huge indictment of Saleh and Wilson.

It would suck but I don't know that it's an indictment. The Pats play the Jets like it's the Super Bowl

we as Jets fans have this habit of making ultimatums against the coaches/GM or the players if they don't meet our high expectations but the sad fact is everyone will be back next year and the year after, no matter what they do. Including Us the fans. We'll be back here next May making "the pig is ripe" threads 

7 minutes ago, DonCorleone said:

I have a recurring wet dream where the Jets just keep running up the score on them in an endless game. 

man that purgatory thread hit hard  

Frank Reynolds GIF by It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

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Belichick is smart. With NFL defenses turning to leaner, faster safeties and linebackers to help defend against the passing game, Bill said "those types of defenses would get absolutely crushed playing against a good run-first team from the 80's". 

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1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean, I don't own the team so I'm not making any ultimatums. But expectations should be high. I had low expectations in 2020. I had pretty low expectations in 2021. This is year three. It's time to start winning games.

The Patriots are very much "just another team" in 2022 and if we go 0-6 in the division again that's a huge problem, IMHO.

BB is a HOF coach despite how much it pains me to say this aloud. He also cheats like crazy so that home game in foxboro they will probably hacked the playbook weeks in advance.  It takes a quality program to win in that building. These Jets show signs of quality but they have also lost 12 in a row to the Pats - that road game is a tough one. agree they "shouldn't" get blown out, yet they always do 

everyone talks about tanking and bottoming the roster out, but losing is a hard habit to break. Zach has won 3 NFL games in his life and lost 10. It will be like a crawl - walk - run situation and many fans feel like it's time to run. Maybe. Or maybe they are still crawling  

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

BB is a HOF coach despite how much it pains me to say this aloud. He also cheats like crazy so that home game in foxboro they will probably hacked the playbook weeks in advance.  It takes a quality program to win in that building. These Jets show signs of quality but they have also lost 12 in a row to the Pats - that road game is a tough one. agree they "shouldn't" get blown out, yet they always do 

everyone talks about tanking and bottoming the roster out, but losing is a hard habit to break. Zach has won 3 NFL games in his life and lost 10. It will be like a crawl - walk - run situation and many fans feel like it's time to run. Maybe. Or maybe they are still crawling  

 

 

 

Pats are 8-9 at home the last two seasons. Didn't post a winning record at Foxboro for two straight years. Again, Brady is gone and so is their unbeatable aura. They're just another team.

This is about the Jets. We get swept every year because we suck. 

It's time to not suck anymore. 

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34 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It would suck but I don't know that it's an indictment. The Pats play the Jets like it's the Super Bowl

And we can't even play them like it's the Snoopy Bowl.

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10 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Can we stop the run?  If we can we have a good shot.  If we can't we likely lose twice.  

The Jets got better in many facets this offseason but stopping the run really wasn't one of them. Foley was a beast at that 

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Their "fantasy" positions aren't special that's true. but they have a very tough defense and an underrated offensive line 

Wynn - Cole Strange - Andrews - Onwenu - Trent Brown 

Onwenu was a friggin steal, borderline pro bowl dude and if Trent Brown is in a game, he's impacting it  

they have certain position groups that can pull weight tight end for example Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith that's a sick duo for any roster 

 

beyond the roster it's the Patriots' program 

the Jets are trying to build a program and we all support that 

but their program is in year 20. yes it's on a decline but the Jets' "Saleh" program is in year 2

more importantly the Pats never sleep on the Jets 

BB loathes this franchise  

I don't  know how good or bad the Pats personnel  is, but schemes only get you so far. At some point, talent needs to kick in. 

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1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:

and this just came out today that Bill is going to serve as their O coordinator this year which is very odd 

Actually Breer saying it's possible, not the same as saying Bill is going to serve as OC

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13 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't  know how good or bad the Pats personnel  is, but schemes only get you so far. At some point, talent needs to kick in. 

it doesn't get much pub but their special teams are excellent. Folk has been automatic, Matthew Slater etc. 

The Jets don't even really know who the PK is going to be 

 

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20 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The Jets got better in many facets this offseason but stopping the run really wasn't one of them. Foley was a beast at that 

Don't know how we can say this.  Added to the FL and should have the injured back on the line.  LBS are different, safeties are different.  

Hopefully if the the scores are closer the Pat's won't be running to take our the clock 

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Their "fantasy" positions aren't special that's true. but they have a very tough defense and an underrated offensive line 

Wynn - Cole Strange - Andrews - Onwenu - Trent Brown 

Onwenu was a friggin steal, borderline pro bowl dude and if Trent Brown is in a game, he's impacting it  

they have certain position groups that can pull weight tight end for example Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith that's a sick duo for any roster 

 

beyond the roster it's the Patriots' program 

the Jets are trying to build a program and we all support that 

but their program is in year 20. yes it's on a decline but the Jets' "Saleh" program is in year 2

more importantly the Pats never sleep on the Jets 

BB loathes this franchise  

And they cheat.

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Don't know how we can say this.  Added to the FL and should have the injured back on the line.  LBS are different, safeties are different.  

Hopefully if the the scores are closer the Pat's won't be running to take our the clock 

You don't know how we can say this?  I don't know how we can't.  The run D was horrific in 2021 and they literally let the one guy that wasn't a liability against the run walk. I have to admit that I am not sure what the FL stands for, but what did they add?  Who was injured on the line?  Lawson?  He's not exactly known as a run stuffer.  What LBs are different?  Seems to me Mosley, Williams, Sherwood and Nasrildeen are still the bodies.  I don't think spinning Cashman for a 6th actually helps the run D.  

I would assume that the hopes are that the improved corners let the safeties and LBs concentrate more on stopping the run.  Two of the DEs they added, Johnson and Clemons, seemt to be able to set the edge and play the run.  Maybe Whitehead will help. Still, they absolutely blew against the run and did very little to help on paper.

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5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You don't know how we can say this?  I don't know how we can't.  The run D was horrific in 2021 and they literally let the one guy that wasn't a liability against the run walk. I have to admit that I am not sure what the FL stands for, but what did they add?  Who was injured on the line?  Lawson?  He's not exactly known as a run stuffer.  What LBs are different?  Seems to me Mosley, Williams, Sherwood and Nasrildeen are still the bodies.  I don't think spinning Cashman for a 6th actually helps the run D.  

I would assume that the hopes are that the improved corners let the safeties and LBs concentrate more on stopping the run.  Two of the DEs they added, Johnson and Clemons, seemt to be able to set the edge and play the run.  Maybe Whitehead will help. Still, they absolutely blew against the run and did very little to help on paper.

In few words, it’s not 2021.  I’ve watched long enough to know how much a team can change, especially teams who’s defense was as injured and changes as much as ours has from last years team.  I can see the we don’t know how much better it will be argument, true but I’m not going to say that nothings changed from that team roster wise or health wise

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14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You don't know how we can say this?  I don't know how we can't.  The run D was horrific in 2021 and they literally let the one guy that wasn't a liability against the run walk. I have to admit that I am not sure what the FL stands for, but what did they add?  Who was injured on the line?  Lawson?  He's not exactly known as a run stuffer.  What LBs are different?  Seems to me Mosley, Williams, Sherwood and Nasrildeen are still the bodies.  I don't think spinning Cashman for a 6th actually helps the run D.  

I would assume that the hopes are that the improved corners let the safeties and LBs concentrate more on stopping the run.  Two of the DEs they added, Johnson and Clemons, seemt to be able to set the edge and play the run.  Maybe Whitehead will help. Still, they absolutely blew against the run and did very little to help on paper.

A major factor associated with being poor at run defense is simply being a bad football team. The Jets were always playing from behind, and their opponents had the opportunity to just keep running the football as a result. If the offense can score more points this year, opponents will no longer be in that position. If the Jets can establish their own running game, and it looks as if that was a priority this offseason, then they’ll be able to control some clock as well. 
 
It’s a passing league, and the Jets are trying to build a pass defense. Pass rushers and CBs. Big picture, that’s more important. I don’t ever want to see them build the team with a single opponent in mind, but I suspect that Josh Allen throwing the ball 40 times a game is probably more in the front of their minds than NE’s rushing attack. If they’re going to compete in the AFC, it’s going to be against QBs. 

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4 hours ago, bitonti said:

The Jets got better in many facets this offseason but stopping the run really wasn't one of them. Foley was a beast at that 

It was his strength, but a far cry from a 'beast' because he wasn't very good overall.

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15 minutes ago, Dcat said:

It was his strength, but a far cry from a 'beast' because he wasn't very good overall.

ok so just to review the pats have a better Oline, a better defense and a much better special teams 

the Jets are "better" then the Pats at what positions exactly? QB? hah. We hope. WR Corp? It's debatable. RB maybe with Hall? CB1 with Sauce? 

the Jets have better "fantasy" guys then they used to but the Pats rarely have that kind of Randy Moss type of stud. It's usually no names and edelmans and danny amendola types. 

meanwhile all the "non stat" positions, including coach, the Pats are much better than the Jets 

ill say it again the Jets don't even have a reliable place kicker. We just breeze by all this stuff and say the pig is ripe 

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2 hours ago, slats said:

 If the offense can score more points this year, 

If the Jets can establish their own running game,  

if if's and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Xmas 

every thread comes down to "if #2 plays like we hope he can, then..." 

all we need is a miracle, all we need is Zach 

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10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

ok so just to review the pats have a better Oline, a better defense and a much better special teams 

the Jets are "better" then the Pats at what positions exactly? QB? hah. We hope. WR Corp? It's debatable. RB maybe with Hall? CB1 with Sauce? 

the Jets have better "fantasy" guys then they used to but the Pats rarely have that kind of Randy Moss type of stud. It's usually no names and edelmans and danny amendola types. 

meanwhile all the "non stat" positions, including coach, the Pats are much better than the Jets 

ill say it again the Jets don't even have a reliable place kicker. We just breeze by all this stuff and say the pig is ripe 

I was responding to the Foley part of your post.  I have no idea what you are talking about above.  It has nothing to do with my response. Youre still a weird dude.

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23 minutes ago, bitonti said:

if if's and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Xmas 

every thread comes down to "if #2 plays like we hope he can, then..." 

all we need is a miracle, all we need is Zach 

Sorry, but it’s not like there’s a game coming up this weekend. My glass is pretty consistently half full, and I enjoy thinking about and discussing the possibilities during the offseason. Conversely, yours hasn’t seen the halfway mark in quite some time, and you now seem to prefer residing chest high in quicksand. Did you think I was somehow unaware that I was talking about potentialities? Talent was added, players improve. Chin up, buddy, things may actually be looking up!

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4 hours ago, slats said:

A major factor associated with being poor at run defense is simply being a bad football team. The Jets were always playing from behind, and their opponents had the opportunity to just keep running the football as a result. If the offense can score more points this year, opponents will no longer be in that position. If the Jets can establish their own running game, and it looks as if that was a priority this offseason, then they’ll be able to control some clock as well. 
 
It’s a passing league, and the Jets are trying to build a pass defense. Pass rushers and CBs. Big picture, that’s more important. I don’t ever want to see them build the team with a single opponent in mind, but I suspect that Josh Allen throwing the ball 40 times a game is probably more in the front of their minds than NE’s rushing attack. If they’re going to compete in the AFC, it’s going to be against QBs. 

Eh.  Being bad explains being 32nd in rush attempts against.  It doesn't explain being 32nd in rush TDs allowed or the sh*tty ypc against.  I have spouted the same line, but they did not seem to do much of anything to fix the run D and if anything it probably got worse by letting Fatukasi go elsewhere.  I am hopeful that another year in the scheme will help, but we have all seen these kind of hopes.

I get it.  Their pass D sucked at least as bad as the run D and fixing that probably should be the priority.  Still, the premise of the thread is that we can handle the Pats and the post I was responding to said that we improved our run D.  I don't see how anybody can think either of those things. 

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I do think the Jets have a more talented team overall team.  Having said that, the Pats are tough to beat... for one reason.

The Pats can put the best offenses, best offensive play callers, and best QBs in a blender, and spit them back out... 

 

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