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2 defensive coaches opinion on Zach


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10 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Did you watch the bucs game? If you can’t say he played better then you need your eyes or head checked 

57.5% completion rate and a TD. The next week, Tampa yielded a 70% completion rate and two TDs to Sam Darnold. 

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32 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

57.5% completion rate and a TD. The next week, Tampa yielded a 70% completion rate and two TDs to Sam Darnold. 

You are comparing a rookie to a 4th year qb again why? 
 

probably  because it’s 100% true that he was improving and you can’t stomach to admit it 

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8 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Is that the argument we’re going with today?04E884CC-8CA7-401D-A0D0-A75C3FA99F43.thumb.jpeg.f3b21ac8f7e08aa24c712521e32126ae.jpeg

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Also, that Sam Darnold stat-line is beyond misleading, lol.  He was 29/42 for 219 yards (5.21 Y/A) and a pick in a blowout loss.  Zach was 19/33 for 234 and a TD (7.09 Y/A) while throwing to 4th stringers in a game that Brady won on a busted coverage in the waning seconds because it was so close.

Sam’s first crack at the Panthers resulted in him going 15/32 for 190, no TDs and no picks.  The Panthers put up 6 points.

 

Whoa, bucko. I think there’s this idea that Zach lit up the Buccaneers at the end of the year and I’m just pointing out that 1. It was not a great statistical passing performance and 2. the Bucs defense was playing out the string at that point. 

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

His best stats were:

only 4 fumbles all year.

0 ints in his last 5 games.

Step 1 for any QB in this league is learning how to limit turnovers, then you progress from there.

Nothing deep sixes a prospect QB more than chronic turnovers.  That is why guys like Daniel Jones, Sam Darnold and Faker Bayfiled are done or near done.

In addition to that, he seemed to lose the yips that he had earlier in the year on dump-offs and screens.

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22 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I've been saying all offseason the OL still needed work and got lambasted for it by the PFF stat crowd.

Zach took too many sacks.  Nania has a good analysis.

A lot of sacks we’re on Zach holding the ball too long or not taking outlets.  We vilified GVR for suggesting it in public but it was a fact.

White, Flacco, and Josh Johnson didn’t take sacks anywhere close to the rate that Zach did.  

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23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

the Bucs defense was playing out the string at that point.

Where do you get all these wonderful references?  
And don’t say, “books.”  
Reading is dumb. 
 

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3 hours ago, PepPep said:

honestly, I don't want to hear from DEFENSIVE coaches. This is the same stuff most fans have been talking about ad nauseum. 

I actually don't agree with the 'Zach should throw off-platform more' comment. While he has the arm strength to throw off-balance, he is much more accurate when he sets his feet and steps into his throw. Duh! You give Zach a pocket and the WR does not need a lot of separation, he will squeeze get it in there. And he's not Lamar Jackson. You want him to run selectively- then SLIDE. In fact, I thought early on in the season he bailed out of the pocket way too early.  

 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Whoa, bucko. I think there’s this idea that Zach lit up the Buccaneers at the end of the year and I’m just pointing out that 1. It was not a great statistical passing performance and 2. the Bucs defense was playing out the string at that point. 

I See You Reaction GIF

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23 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

 

It‘s weird because LaFleur clearly wants his QB to play from the pocket a la Garopollo. As @JiFapono pointed out, Zach actually had some of his best moments operating within structure from the pocket. Why would they opt to put him on the move unless this DC thinks Zach just can’t process defenses?

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48 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It‘s weird because LaFleur clearly wants his QB to play from the pocket a la Garopollo. As @JiFapono pointed out, Zach actually had some of his best moments operating within structure from the pocket. Why would they opt to put him on the move unless this DC thinks Zach just can’t process defenses?

Do you think some of that might be one of the 4+ plays a game where someone would come through the A gap untouched or, worse “Ole’”and Zach would have a surprise hit?

 I don’t think they wanted Zach to climb the pocket after the week one pass to Mims that Zach got crushed on as he threw it.  

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6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Mike White and Josh Johnson got to play with that All-Pro line and stud receiving corps, though. 

How many years total do both of them have in the NFL, playing or not, just asking because I'm thinking it's more than the (1) year that Zach had... Not to say that this is why he wasn't as good as many expected, but can you give the guy some kind of break for being a rook... Seriously with all the experience the other 2 have, you'd think the way you talk about them they should have been starters for one of the other 31 teams in the NFL... Just saying lol...

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11 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

How many years total do both of them have in the NFL, playing or not, just asking because I'm thinking it's more than the (1) year that Zach had... Not to say that this is why he wasn't as good as many expected, but can you give the guy some kind of break for being a rook... Seriously with all the experience the other 2 have, you'd think the way you talk about them they should have been starters for one of the other 31 teams in the NFL... Just saying lol...

So if these guys want to say that Zach struggled because Zach was a very bad rookie, that’s fine. But the relative success of White and Johnson disproves the idea that Zach had no talent around him and/or the scheme was bad. 

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42 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So if these guys want to say that Zach struggled because Zach was a very bad rookie, that’s fine. But the relative success of White and Johnson disproves the idea that Zach had no talent around him and/or the scheme was bad. 

White did so well in his second start with the same talent he had in his first start. Johnson has been in the league what 15 years would think he should do better than a rookie 
Let’s Give Zach a break and let’s see what he looks like this year with an improved offense and a year in this system 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Then he can’t play in the NFL, period

He’s got like 5 coaches at the Jets.   They aren’t clearing their instructions for Zach with us at JN.  
 

They might have told him not to climb into the “Van Rotten” zone.  Just like Lawrence went out of bounds to avoid a hit with a game on the line and his coaches might have told him to do that.

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24 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

The 2 main issues I see watching the games and replays:

1. His interceptions early in the year were almost all caused by throwing the ball late.  A sign of a rookie QB whose play speed was behind everyone else’s.  I truly believe he’ll catch up to the speed of the game.  He’s smart, works hard and just needs to master the play book so it’s second nature.  Last years experience should pay huge dividends.

2. His short game STUNK.  Why?  Hopefully just mechanics but I’m personally more worried about this than the interceptions.  The optimist in me is happy he improved on both as the year went on, even as the talent around him diminished significantly.

If he fixes the above, watch out!  The entire playbook opens up, the defense becomes more vulnerable and his advanced skills in the more difficult parts of the game and talents rolling out / improvising will shine.

The coaches mentioned a few times the short game was because Zach was behind and wasn’t getting his feet around- seeing it a little late.   I think 1 and 2 are the same and 2 (short passes) was also getting better.  
 

He might dirt a short pass a game.  He did that in college and completed a good percentage.  

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40 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

We sucked. This lineup is brutal. 

Hope they stay healthy this year. 
 

Also Berrios is gawd. 

I genuinely couldn’t remember who the RB was for this game after Carter came out.

I can’t wait to see Breezy Hall.

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10 hours ago, CSNY said:

White did so well in his second start with the same talent he had in his first start. Johnson has been in the league what 15 years would think he should do better than a rookie 
Let’s Give Zach a break and let’s see what he looks like this year with an improved offense and a year in this system 

White got injured in his second start while throwing a TD.

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10 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

He’s got like 5 coaches at the Jets.   They aren’t clearing their instructions for Zach with us at JN.  
 

They might have told him not to climb into the “Van Rotten” zone.  Just like Lawrence went out of bounds to avoid a hit with a game on the line and his coaches might have told him to do that.

Trying to imagine a scenario where the coaching staff explicitly tells the young QB to never step up in the pocket because he might get hit too hard.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

White got injured in his second start while throwing a TD.

How was he doing prior to his injury. Not very well if I recall correctly and when he returned from injury against Buffalo he really lite up the scoreboard 

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8 minutes ago, CSNY said:

How was he doing prior to his injury. Not very well if I recall correctly and when he returned from injury against Buffalo he really lite up the scoreboard 

He was 7 of 11 for 95 yards and a TD. Left the game after that TD with three and a half minutes left in the first quarter. Saleh’s brilliant defensive scheme had already given up an easy six and a half minute scoring drive to Carson Wentz, Jonathan Taylor, and Nyheim Hynes. White was on pace for another 400 yard game. 

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