GreenFish Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 For those interested in the inner workings of team building, PFF had a great interview with former Vikings GM Rick Spielman. There’s too much in the interview for me to summarize and do it justice. But he talks about setting up drafts boards, the use analytics, coming up with a free agency plan, positional value (ie it differs by team based on scheme), etc. The one specific thing I wanted to point out that I thought was interesting was a study the Vikings analytics department did. They studied past Super Bowl teams and the talent level they had on the team. They concluded that to be SB level team you need: 1) 4 players on offense and 4 players on defense that are at the top of their position. Call it pro bowl level 2) No more than two bad players starting on each side. He said you can hide at most 2 players. 3) the rest need to be quality starters He also noted that he would ask the coaches what are the positions you want those top guys in and what are the positions where you can hide guys. Bringing it to the Jets - I actually don't think we have guys on offense that we need to hide. The question is do we have guys who are considered top of their position? Currently no - On defense, again we dont have guys who are currently top of their position and we have guys who we need to hide barring a big jump (FS, LB and whoever plays next to Quinnen) No surprise, we are likely not a super bowl caliber team. Question - Who can we reasonably expect to eventually be top of their position? For me, it’s - Offense: Breece Hall, AVT, one of Wilson/Moore, Becton (I still believe in the talent) - Defense: Sauce, Quinnen (I still believe a jump is coming) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Tomlinson made a Pro Bowl last year and should be part of that conversation. Defense they probably need someone to come out of nowhere beyond the two you listed. If he’s able to rush inside more I could see JFM taking a leap. I also think Pinnock has a lot of upside at safety but that’d be very out of nowhere. Think it’s easier to be really good out of nowhere at safety than other spots, but I absolutely understand that’s me really, really reaching. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Possible pro bowlers AVT, Tomlinson, Q 5 to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 On principle, I don't listen to anyone whose name contains "spiel". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Beerfish Posted May 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2022 And to me this is the real formula of the NFL. Some high end talent, a lot of good players the ability to hide your weak players and exploit other teams weaknesses. The NFL gets caught up in winning formulas, defense and run the ball for a few yeas, then it is a pass happy offense, then it is all about pass rushing, then it is about having shut down cbs, then you must have a franchise qb, until some jag like rypien or brad johsnons or dilfer or foles wins it all then you don't really need that guy, The winning forumla is having a few stars, some good complimentary guys and no huge weaknesses, this is the same for many other sports. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Possible pro bowl offensive players on Jets (obviously if everything goes right, but these guys definitely have the talent: Lake Tomlinson, AVT, Elijah, Garret Wilson, Becton, Breece Hall, Zach Wilson Defensive side of ball: Quinnen, Lawson, JFM, Jermaine Johnson, Mosley, DJ Reed, Sauce, Whitehead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 You also need the refs not to ignore this call: All the team-building in the world can't compensate for the occasional blown call that completely reverses a game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 1 minute ago, nycdan said: You also need the refs not to ignore this call: All the team-building in the world can't compensate for the occasional blown call that completely reverses a game. Rams didn’t win the super bowl that year tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said: Rams didn’t win the super bowl that year tho Neither did the Saints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenFish Posted May 31, 2022 Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 1 hour ago, derp said: Tomlinson made a Pro Bowl last year and should be part of that conversation. Defense they probably need someone to come out of nowhere beyond the two you listed. If he’s able to rush inside more I could see JFM taking a leap. I also think Pinnock has a lot of upside at safety but that’d be very out of nowhere. Think it’s easier to be really good out of nowhere at safety than other spots, but I absolutely understand that’s me really, really reaching. Cant believe I forgot about Tomlinson. He’s one of the 4 for sure. Our offense definitely has the potential to hit this high threshold. The defense still needs work using this framework though. Quinnen was on his way there in year 2 but took a step back last year. I’m curious about Pinnock. Lots of Jets fans seems high on him. Wish someone would breakdown game tape of him playing safety last year. I wasnt paying attention to him last year. Some are also high on Quincy Williams. Connor Williams has been saying the Jets think he is a pro bowl caliber player. So we got two potential surprises. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 59 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said: On principle, I don't listen to anyone whose name contains "spiel". Ok spoot 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hex Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said: On principle, I don't listen to anyone whose name contains "spiel". Like Steven Spielberg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenFish Posted May 31, 2022 Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Beerfish said: And to me this is the real formula of the NFL. Some high end talent, a lot of good players the ability to hide your weak players and exploit other teams weaknesses. The NFL gets caught up in winning formulas, defense and run the ball for a few yeas, then it is a pass happy offense, then it is all about pass rushing, then it is about having shut down cbs, then you must have a franchise qb, until some jag like rypien or brad johsnons or dilfer or foles wins it all then you don't really need that guy, The winning forumla is having a few stars, some good complimentary guys and no huge weaknesses, this is the same for many other sports. Yup. Get the elite talent and play to your strength within the scheme. We’ve seen the Pats win with an elite secondary and ok pass rusher. And we’ve seen Philly win with an elite pass rusher and ok secondary. KC won with an elite QB and weapons while the Pats had Brady and a strong OL despite so so weapons. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Thanks for sharing. Just listening how much goes into a player evaluation and how they do an After Action Review (AAR) when they miss to understand why they did so. Love hearing how they use analytics in all aspects of their evaluations, and they use clone (comps) with how in depth they have these players evaluated. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Beerfish said: And to me this is the real formula of the NFL. Some high end talent, a lot of good players the ability to hide your weak players and exploit other teams weaknesses. The NFL gets caught up in winning formulas, defense and run the ball for a few yeas, then it is a pass happy offense, then it is all about pass rushing, then it is about having shut down cbs, then you must have a franchise qb, until some jag like rypien or brad johsnons or dilfer or foles wins it all then you don't really need that guy, The winning forumla is having a few stars, some good complimentary guys and no huge weaknesses, this is the same for many other sports. I agree with this. I think when you layer in team building, part of that is having enough starting caliber players that teams can draft and develop players behind those guys. That gives teams quality depth so they're largely fine as long as the stars stay healthy and enables them to let some guys walk so they can choose who they’re paying. I think the Jets have gotten close to the lack of weaknesses as was discussed in this thread, but they definitely need guys to emerge as difference makers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Spoot-Face Posted May 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said: Ok spoot I'm constantly advising people not to listen to me. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Hex said: Like Steven Spielberg? There's a reason he writes only fiction 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drums Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 I’d also add health. We aren't there yet but we’re getting there if we can start our actual starters. It would be nice to have our true roster week 1 for once let alone most of the season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenFish Posted May 31, 2022 Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Claymation said: Thanks for sharing. Just listening how much goes into a player evaluation and how they do an After Action Review (AAR) when they miss to understand why they did so. Love hearing how they use analytics in all aspects of their evaluations, and they use clone (comps) with how in depth they have these players evaluated. Crazy how much detail he provided. I like the way he ran the Vikings. Based on the tidbits we’ve learned about Joe Douglas, I think he might be running a similar ship. We have an analytics department and Joe is really big on finding fits for the scheme and culture. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 3 hours ago, GreenFish said: Cant believe I forgot about Tomlinson. He’s one of the 4 for sure. Our offense definitely has the potential to hit this high threshold. Tomlinson was a Pro Bowl Alternate fwiw A nice player but not sure anyone's going to put him among the top LG in the league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowles Movement Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, bitonti said: Tomlinson was a Pro Bowl Alternate fwiw A nice player but not sure anyone's going to put him among the top LG in the league If youre a Pro Bowl Alternate doesnt that already put you among the top guards in the league? FWIW I dont remember Greg Van Roten ( or any Jet) getting invited..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 4 hours ago, nycdan said: You also need the refs not to ignore this call: All the team-building in the world can't compensate for the occasional blown call that completely reverses a game. But, on the other hand, we have not been able to build a team that has been good enough to play in a big game. I guess being in position to have a big game stolen from us by a bad call would be some sort of progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 4 hours ago, nycdan said: You also need the refs not to ignore this call: All the team-building in the world can't compensate for the occasional blown call that completely reverses a game. Uncatchable pass. I believe the term here is “piss missile” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 5 hours ago, Rhg1084 said: Possible pro bowl offensive players on Jets (obviously if everything goes right, but these guys definitely have the talent: Lake Tomlinson, AVT, Elijah, Garret Wilson, Becton, Breece Hall, Zach Wilson Defensive side of ball: Quinnen, Lawson, JFM, Jermaine Johnson, Mosley, DJ Reed, Sauce, Whitehead Thank you Joe Douglas! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 4 hours ago, Greenseed4 said: Uncatchable pass. I believe the term here is “piss missile” Nope. Nobody thought that. Watch: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnknownJetFan Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 9 hours ago, GreenFish said: Cant believe I forgot about Tomlinson. He’s one of the 4 for sure. Our offense definitely has the potential to hit this high threshold. The defense still needs work using this framework though. Quinnen was on his way there in year 2 but took a step back last year. I’m curious about Pinnock. Lots of Jets fans seems high on him. Wish someone would breakdown game tape of him playing safety last year. I wasnt paying attention to him last year. Some are also high on Quincy Williams. Connor Williams has been saying the Jets think he is a pro bowl caliber player. So we got two potential surprises. Reed and Whitehead should be high on the list on D. They were exceptional on the other teams they played on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 On 5/31/2022 at 5:45 PM, Spoot-Face said: I'm constantly advising people not to listen to me. Too late. You're my source for all news consumption. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepPep Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 17 hours ago, UnknownJetFan said: Reed and Whitehead should be high on the list on D. They were exceptional on the other teams they played on. Lawson and Mosley should be on that list. Assuming both can stay healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said: Too late. You're my source for all news consumption. I get all my news from the Onion. I'm probably more informed than 90% of all you mooks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal N of Provo Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Just now, Spoot-Face said: I get all my news from the Onion. I'm probably more informed than 90% of all you mooks. See, that’s where you get lost. You should make a YouTube video explaining this view and post it here without context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Hal N of Provo said: See, that’s where you get lost. You should make a YouTube video explaining this view and post it here without context. okay brb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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