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Will the coaching staff be able to gauge Zach Wilsons "leap" in training camp?


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6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I thought it was interesting that Saleh’s explanation for why they’re only relying on Calabrese to help Zach this season is because they felt like there were “too many voices” in the QB room, and they wanted to streamline it. In a way, it makes sense, but it just kinda reinforces that they don’t really know what they’re doing in terms of developing a young QB. 

IMHO - Zach was playing soo poorly last year that they had to figure out who might be able to break through to him.  Hence they hired John Beck, and wound up with too many voices (compounded by adjustments that they had to make after the passing of Knapp over the summer). 

It was a necessary step (to add voices) since Zach was not doing anything well.

I don't look at it as the coaching staff not knowing what they are doing.  They had a plan and expected Zach to pick-up the offense given his smarts and work ethic.  When he didn't, the coaching staff asked themselves - what else can we do to get results...  I think we all saw the kid holding the ball too long (not hitting his reads on time), and struggling with mechanics/accuracy.

I get the feeling that they are still looking for answers to help simplify things for Zach so he plays well.  It feels more like a Zach specific issue since the system has seen jags be able to come in and put up production (remember those back-ups in San Fran when Garrapolo was out a couple of years ago).  LaFleur even went to great lengths to describe how they are working to continue to simplify the processing for Zach.

Side note - we had our own version of a jag having success with Mike White - unfortunately it felt like his arm talent limitations were also exposed once teams realized he couldn't consistently threaten downfield or in man coverage down the field. 

Saleh indicates reps have been helpful in getting Zach comfortable.  I hope he is able to get enough reps this summer (combined with reps from last year) for Zach to trust the system and himself.  If his average time to throw is above 3 seconds this year again, in this system, we are going to be complaining about the offensive line and the lack of production of the skill positions... instead of focusing on the root cause (QB processing - trusting the system and distributing balls to playmakers on time and on target). 

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14 hours ago, slats said:

Zach is your starter for as long as he’s healthy this year, and probably next. Having a different opinion on the matter is unlikely to change that. 

I agree with this, unless he completely sh*ts the bed this year.   And I don’t expect that to happen.

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16 hours ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

Curious to see people's takes on how much you can take away from training camp performance? Obviously fans can read reports from training camp and try and see how Zach is doing... but its almost impossible to know if Zach is getting the ball to the place its supposed to go, how he is going through his reads, assessing the coverages, etc. 

Everyone is obviously optimistic about Zach improving over last year - and it'd be almost impossible for him not to improve on last year's performance based on how bad he was last year + the improvements they made around him. That being said, we've seen first hand that Darnold didn't make the "leap" other QBs in the past few years (Rosen, Jones, Haskins, Tua, etc) and there is no guarantee that Zach will be meaningfully better than he was last year. 

So can the coaching staff assess that based off of predominantly non-contact practices? And if they can, and they don't see Zach making meaningful strides - isn't there an obligation to seek out an upgrade at QB? 

Before everyone gets up my ass about "can the season get here already" or "typical Jets fan wanting to give up on a QB already" - I want to say that I do believe Zach will be better and I am optimistic he can be the guy. But this roster has legit potential. I think the OL/WR/DL/Secondary/RB/TE position can all be top 15 in the league w/ top 10 potential if some of the young guys pop. If that is the case I just listed every position except QB and LB. With Darnold it was let him learn b/c this team isn't going anywhere w/ the roster surrounding him. But this year? I think with an average QB we could compete for a playoff spot. I hope it works out with Zach but if it doesn't lets not waste an entire season hoping he improves. We could trade for a Baker or Jimmy G w/o giving up meaningful capital and see what we have in the rest of the roster. 

Curious how lonely I am on this island...

If this team trades for Baker over Zach, I think that would about do it for me. 

Last season due to how good Zach looked in preseason, everyone thought we made the correct call at QB. Turned out we are still wondering. We won't  know until the games count. 

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3 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Are they in the nation?

 

then yes 

Sorry I thought you were trying to be funny since when you refer to football using the word "nation" that usually means college football not pro. 

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17 hours ago, slats said:

Zach is your starter for as long as he’s healthy this year, and probably next. Having a different opinion on the matter is unlikely to change that. 

I don't think this would be the case if he plays terrible in the first 4-5 games. At the very least if he plays bad you have to let him sit for a a few games to try and get his head together watch film and see/learn wtf he's doing wrong . If you let him continue to suck then that's the point you can start to do damage. 

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6 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I don't think this would be the case if he plays terrible in the first 4-5 games. At the very least if he plays bad you have to let him sit for a a few games to try and get his head together watch film and see/learn wtf he's doing wrong . If you let him continue to suck then that's the point you can start to do damage. 

Far be it from me to shatter the dreams of the Mike White Supremacists, but I don’t see that happening. Either the terrible play or the benching. 

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2 minutes ago, slats said:

Far be it from me to shatter the dreams of the Mike White Supremacists, but I don’t see that happening. Either the terrible play or the benching. 

It would be Flacco spelling Zach for a stretch if Zach were to, say, “sprain” an “ankle,” because Saleh is [I’m trying to be more positive this summer]

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4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It would be Flacco spelling Zach for a stretch if Zach were to, say, “sprain” an “ankle,” because Saleh is [I’m trying to be more positive this summer]

It’s going great! 

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14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I thought it was interesting that Saleh’s explanation for why they’re only relying on Calabrese to help Zach this season is because they felt like there were “too many voices” in the QB room, and they wanted to streamline it. In a way, it makes sense, but it just kinda reinforces that they don’t really know what they’re doing in terms of developing a young QB. 

Saleh’s comment about just having Calabrese in the QB was a head scratcher and concerning as well. I was thinking that they were definitely going bring in someone in for Zach. It was one off-season move I was waiting to hear, was hoping it would be a move that would give me more confidence than Mr Broccoli.

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FWIW…

Pro Football Network's Mike Kaye reports Zach Wilson has struggled with accuracy in Jets OTAs. 

"I got a close look at Wilson on Wednesday during OTAs at the team’s facility, and I came away with a shoulder shrug of sorts," Kaye said. "Wilson got off to a rough start in team drills as his first four passes were as follows: a throw behind Corey Davis, a throw that hovered over everyone, a clear throwaway after being flushed out of the pocket, and another bad misfire." Kaye said Wilson later completed a few nice throws over the middle and heavily targeted second-year WR Elijah Moore. By any measurement, Wilson's rookie year accuracy was disastrous. No quarterback had a worse completion rate over expected and only Justin Fields had a worst adjusted completion rate, per Pro Football Focus. Wilson, who has reportedly bulked up for his sophomore season, will have few excuses in 2022 after the Jets upgraded their pass-catching group with Garrett Wilson and their offensive line with Laken Tomlinson. "Overall, the recipe is there for Wilson to make a major jump," Kaye said. "That said, I think he’s still a massive projection at this point, especially in June of Year 2."

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16 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

FWIW…

Pro Football Network's Mike Kaye reports Zach Wilson has struggled with accuracy in Jets OTAs. 

"I got a close look at Wilson on Wednesday during OTAs at the team’s facility, and I came away with a shoulder shrug of sorts," Kaye said. "Wilson got off to a rough start in team drills as his first four passes were as follows: a throw behind Corey Davis, a throw that hovered over everyone, a clear throwaway after being flushed out of the pocket, and another bad misfire." Kaye said Wilson later completed a few nice throws over the middle and heavily targeted second-year WR Elijah Moore. By any measurement, Wilson's rookie year accuracy was disastrous. No quarterback had a worse completion rate over expected and only Justin Fields had a worst adjusted completion rate, per Pro Football Focus. Wilson, who has reportedly bulked up for his sophomore season, will have few excuses in 2022 after the Jets upgraded their pass-catching group with Garrett Wilson and their offensive line with Laken Tomlinson. "Overall, the recipe is there for Wilson to make a major jump," Kaye said. "That said, I think he’s still a massive projection at this point, especially in June of Year 2."

Oh boy.  Probably not something to get concerned about yet but not something you want to hear.

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Sorry I thought you were trying to be funny since when you refer to football using the word "nation" that usually means college football not pro. 

Jamal Adams joke.  I’m da best in da naaytion! 
 

Disregard 

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1 hour ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

FWIW…

Pro Football Network's Mike Kaye reports Zach Wilson has struggled with accuracy in Jets OTAs. 

"I got a close look at Wilson on Wednesday during OTAs at the team’s facility, and I came away with a shoulder shrug of sorts," Kaye said. "Wilson got off to a rough start in team drills as his first four passes were as follows: a throw behind Corey Davis, a throw that hovered over everyone, a clear throwaway after being flushed out of the pocket, and another bad misfire." Kaye said Wilson later completed a few nice throws over the middle and heavily targeted second-year WR Elijah Moore. By any measurement, Wilson's rookie year accuracy was disastrous. No quarterback had a worse completion rate over expected and only Justin Fields had a worst adjusted completion rate, per Pro Football Focus. Wilson, who has reportedly bulked up for his sophomore season, will have few excuses in 2022 after the Jets upgraded their pass-catching group with Garrett Wilson and their offensive line with Laken Tomlinson. "Overall, the recipe is there for Wilson to make a major jump," Kaye said. "That said, I think he’s still a massive projection at this point, especially in June of Year 2."

There you go, happy? He's out there struggling on 4 passes in OTA's. We suck again. 

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2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

"Wilson got off to a rough start in team drills as his first four passes were as follows: a throw behind Corey Davis, a throw that hovered over everyone, a clear throwaway after being flushed out of the pocket, and another bad misfire."  

that's so 2021 

Step 1: Draft Zach Wilson

Step 2: ????

Step 3: Profit 

 

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3 hours ago, slats said:

Far be it from me to shatter the dreams of the Mike White Supremacists, but I don’t see that happening. Either the terrible play or the benching. 

I don't see the terrible play either I'm just saying if he does play terrible with all the weapons we have added the leash may be shorter than some think. 5 games is plenty of time for Zach to get a good handle on this offense. He has 3 very capable TE's a very good WR group and 2 duel threat RB's each of which is a threat to take it too the house on any play. Playing bad with that type of line - up would be inexcusable in year two under the same offense and coordinator. I'm not a Mike White Supremacist Im a realist since i have (as we all have ) been let down once too often at the QB position. I want Zach to go off this year so him failing is not one of my dreams like you seem to suggest.

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20 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

It’s a process.  Zach has no competition,  again, so it’s boom or bust.  

At least we have a veteran back up this year.

That is something.

I would be more confident if we had Baker Mayfield.  

 

I actually like that idea. Baker would push Zach. Put up or shut up time. And then we have an okay back up if he get hurt or sees ghosts. Trade Mike "First Round" White for a 6th rounder.

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On 6/2/2022 at 7:57 PM, johnnysd said:

So you are saying essentially that you want to bail on Zach if he shows any struggles even in training camp, and then move to some phantom "average" QB that is not even on the roster and pretty much not available outside of trading for Garapollo?  Just no. This sort of philosophy would have bailed on Josh Allen, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, etc....Zach gets at least this whole season and next unless he is somehow literally horrible.

I don't think bringing in Jimmy G or Baker (both w/ 1 year left on their deal) is giving up on zach. I think its more an acknowledgement that this team has potential and he may not be the guy this year to help them realize it. Peyton Manning was third in the league in passing yards his second year - Drew Brees was 12th. I'm hoping Zach can be top 22 or so - so to the extent Zach makes a Drew Brees like improvement I would obviously never consider bringing in another QB. 

Josh Allen was 23rd - so he'd be the example that you worry about - but he is the ONE guy who struggled for two years and really broke out. I'd probably point out the 50 QBs who stayed in the bottom quartile of passing in years 1+2 and stayed bad as a more likely ZW scenario than the one outlier. Plus, while game experience may be the far better catalyst for improvement - you'd still have him on the team and he'd be competing again in year three. 

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On 6/2/2022 at 9:27 PM, Joe W. Namath said:

The coaching staff is going to be around zach 24/7 for the next 3 months and we are questioning if they are going to be able to tell if hes improved?  Is this really a thread?

The question is can they tell he improved? If you believe it is obvious that they can or can't the next question is... assuming he does not improve (which I know you're a big ZW fan but you need to acknowledge there is SOME chance he is just a whiff) - is it worth it to bring in another QB to try and compete this year at the expense of ZW's long-term development. 

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42 minutes ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

I don't think bringing in Jimmy G or Baker (both w/ 1 year left on their deal) is giving up on zach. I think its more an acknowledgement that this team has potential and he may not be the guy this year to help them realize it. Peyton Manning was third in the league in passing yards his second year - Drew Brees was 12th. I'm hoping Zach can be top 22 or so - so to the extent Zach makes a Drew Brees like improvement I would obviously never consider bringing in another QB. 

Josh Allen was 23rd - so he'd be the example that you worry about - but he is the ONE guy who struggled for two years and really broke out. I'd probably point out the 50 QBs who stayed in the bottom quartile of passing in years 1+2 and stayed bad as a more likely ZW scenario than the one outlier. Plus, while game experience may be the far better catalyst for improvement - you'd still have him on the team and he'd be competing again in year three. 

 Not sure how you could couch bring in either of these guys as not giving up on Zach? When exactly are you switching if you bring these guys in?

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