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Report: Zach Wilson has struggled with accuracy in Jets OTAs


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1 hour ago, SoFlaJets said:

I'm sick of waiting for things to bloom and blossom because in this game they. never do. It's win NOW, THIS year, there is no next year for 20% of the players on the team-and for the Jets fans like my buddy Jeff Gill and guys like Savage here on the boards, for a lot of Jets fans who were lucky (and old) enough to have watched SBIII these wait 'til next years aren't guaranteed for us to see even happen.

This is why I hate the whole idea of anointing an unproven high draft pick the starting job AGAIN because let's face the statistical facts Zach Wilson has NOT "earned" the job of starting QB of the NYJ. All I want is a competition at the position between Wilson, Flacco, and White, unfortunately as history has shown us this policy apparently stems from the owners' box. For the Jets under the Johnson's way of thinking, it's always about WHERE the guy was drafted.

If the same thing that happened to the Patriots in 2001 with Bledsoe getting hurt (against the Jets, of course and then winning the game) and Brady coming in, under the Johnson modus operandi, Brady would have been relegated right back to the bench the minute Bledsoe was healthy enough to start again. NEVER would a 6th round draft pick be tapped to start with a veteran who is making more money than 1/3 of the teams' salaries put together . It would never happen. I fear that Mike White is going to be let go and we'll have to watch him become a franchise QB somewhere else while Zach Wilson continues with the style of play we have so far only seen from him and sadly, continue to hear the same about this spring.

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On 6/6/2022 at 10:29 AM, Matt39 said:

Plenty of Italian spots by us to and Arthur Ave a 20 minute drive away. As a kid though, plenty of birthday parties, get togethers, buffet lunches spent at the local PH. 

After football games on Friday nights our local PH would stay open til midnight.  It was a treat, and the same people who say they don't like it are the same one's who look down on Walmart.

Yet they still go there........

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15 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Debatable. SF could have won the SB with him in 2011 if their punt returner didn't muff two punts in the NFC Championship game against the Giants. 

Belichick would not have lost to Alex Smith in the SB.  I’m thankful for those muffed punts.  

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Belichick would not have lost to Alex Smith in the SB.  I’m thankful for those muffed punts.  

Eh, again, debatable. 

The 2011 Pats were one of their weaker SB squads (squeaked by the Ravens in the AFC title game on the missed chippy). SF had a legit defwnse and running game that year - I would have given them a shot. 

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On 6/4/2022 at 2:56 PM, T0mShane said:

I think urgency will be key this year, but what bothers me about Saleh and co is that they don’t seem to be the urgent types. He’s always referencing “Phase One, Phase Two, etc,” and it appears that this year, for them, is another step in a progression that they hope will eventually pay off. I’m sure he sees himself in that Sean McVay/Kyle Shanahan mould, but those guys are legitimate geniuses, which is a hard thing to replicate. 

Sometimes when I heard them speak last year (and certainly when I listen to much of the yapping on the board) I think of Ted Lasso saying: 

“For me, success is not about the wins and losses. It’s about helping these young fellas be the best versions of themselves on and off the field.”

I feel like coach Beard screaming YES, WINNING DOES MATTER!

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Every team that has had Alex Smith as QB has needed upgrade from Alex Smith. 

Alex Smith was a 3-time pro bowler and had good stats in his 5 post-seasons.  Not saying he's a superstar or anything but, imo, he was a lot better than he gets credit for.  Look at that game in 2013.  He threw for 378 yards, 4 TDs and 0 INTs but lost 45-44 to Andrew Luck.  

 

image.thumb.png.08091cdb070773e18001f60a3275674c.png

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1 hour ago, slats said:

I get the emotion, old friend, but not the conclusions. The owners aren’t dictating who plays QB, that’s the head coach. They’re in the business of developing a FQB. Mike White is never gonna be that guy. At best, he could have a Fitzpatrick or Alex Smith type career. At the very best. Zach’s ceiling is tremendously higher, and that’s where they’re looking to get. 

I just don't see where you can draw that conclusion from what we've actually seen from the kid. He won 3 games last year and only played adequate in the Tennessee game, also Slats he was sacked 18 times vs AFCE teams and still missed 2 1/2 games vs our rivals. Wilson plays best when he's playing sandlot ball while Mike White is able to drop back, set up and throw strikes, Zach can't play that kind of ball and I know there OL was horrible but White played behind the same Swiss cheese line and managed much better play. Look, I truly hope I'm wrong about Zach Wilson, I WANT him to succeed, I long for the kind of seasons we had when we were winning with the Sanchez-Ryan-Revis teams I miss that kind of excitement

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On 6/6/2022 at 11:33 AM, Matt39 said:

Yes it is. Friendlys was too.

Wait Friendly's is no longer a sit down restaurant? Haven't been there since my college days. Didn't realize it changed.

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56 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

but White played behind the same Swiss cheese line and managed much better play. 

This is overstated. Forgetting about Wilson for a second, there is this very strange trend of misrepresenting what Mike White actually did on this board that is misguided. 

White had two complete starts and a third game in which he had a really nice opening drive before getting hurt. 

In his two complete starts, he was awesome in one game (although he threw two picks and had another one dropped) and terrible in the other. He also exhibited a troubling trend over the course of his very limited playing time. Consider that he threw 8 interceptions in 132 pass attempts - meaning that a whopping 6.1% of his NFL passes to date have been intercepted, which was among the worst in the league over the duration of his starts (For comparison, Wilson's interception percentage last year was 2.9).  Now, to be fair, he's only played two complete games - So there is a sample size issue. I imagine he would be able to get the picks under control with more playing time, like Wilson did. But, at the end of the day, there is a pronounced lack of data, so we are all projecting. 

The big thing that White did better than Wilson right out of the gate is make quick decisions and deliver the ball accurately. This is huge and I think it helped Wilson to sit and watch the Bengals game. But we can't mention the Bengals game without also mentioning the Bills game, aka the "other" Mike White game. You Mike White people seem to be living off the glory of one game and projecting from there - a very dangerous practice in the NFL. 

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3 hours ago, SoFlaJets said:

I'm sick of waiting for things to bloom and blossom because in this game they. never do. It's win NOW, THIS year, there is no next year for 20% of the players on the team-and for the Jets fans like my buddy Jeff Gill and guys like Savage here on the boards, for a lot of Jets fans who were lucky (and old) enough to have watched SBIII these wait 'til next years aren't guaranteed for us to see even happen.

This is why I hate the whole idea of anointing an unproven high draft pick the starting job AGAIN because let's face the statistical facts Zach Wilson has NOT "earned" the job of starting QB of the NYJ.All I want is a competition at the position between Wilson, Flacco, and White, unfortunately as history has shown us this policy apparently stems from the owners' box. For the Jets under the Johnson's way of thinking, it's always about WHERE the guy was drafted.

If the same thing that happened to the Patriots in 2001 with Bledsoe getting hurt (against the Jets, of course and then winning the game) and Brady coming in, under the Johnson modus operandi, Brady would have been relegated right back to the bench the minute Bledsoe was healthy enough to start again. NEVER would a 6th round draft pick be tapped to start with a veteran who is making more money than 1/3 of the teams' salaries put together . It would never happen. I fear that Mike White is going to be let go and we'll have to watch him become a franchise QB somewhere else while Zach Wilson continues with the style of play we have so far only seen from him and sadly, continue to hear the same about this spring.

This is the year.... 12 Wins.... they win the AFCE

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21 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Maybe you don't know this but it is 100% the water. Unless they fly in the water it will never really be like NY Pizza.

Nothing like that famous, clean, New York City tap water

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2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Alex Smith was a 3-time pro bowler and had good stats in his 5 post-seasons.  Not saying he's a superstar or anything but, imo, he was a lot better than he gets credit for.  Look at that game in 2013.  He threw for 378 yards, 4 TDs and 0 INTs but lost 45-44 to Andrew Luck.  

 

image.thumb.png.08091cdb070773e18001f60a3275674c.png

 

None of that negates @slats' point though.  Yes, he had a nice career.  But even after excellent back-to-back seasons by Smith in 2015-16, Andy Reid decided to move up in the draft for Pat Mahomes, and garnered quite a bit of criticism for the decision.  Smith then followed all that up with a career year in 2017.  Reid still handed the keys to Mahomes in 2018.

Smith was a really solid stopgap/bridge QB and there's value to that.  But if you pinned your hopes on winning a title on him, you were always going to fall short.  You needed a loaded roster around him just to get to the playoffs and win game(s) when you got there.  Harbaugh and Andy Reid both recognized this and moved on.

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6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I’m late to this thread, hence the back to back like I’m stalking you.

Anyway I’ve been meaning to tell you, you’ve been surprisingly good in Stranger Things. Every time your thin voice utters, “Eleven,” with that creepy intonation, the females in the Sperm family get wigged out. “Elllleven, let Papa make you well.” I’m getting chills just thinking about it now myself.

So, congrats on the mini-comeback. 

 

Do you ever point at the screen and say “Hey! I know/despise that guy!!”

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On 6/6/2022 at 12:33 PM, Matt39 said:

Yes it is. Friendlys was too.

I remember the Pizza Hut big red cups and crushed ice.  Birthday party staple!

Friendly's by me had a smoking and non-smoking section growing up, with a tiny divider between the two sides.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

None of that negates @slats' point though.  Yes, he had a nice career.  But even after excellent back-to-back seasons by Smith in 2015-16, Andy Reid decided to move up in the draft for Pat Mahomes, and garnered quite a bit of criticism for the decision.  Smith then followed all that up with a career year in 2017.  Reid still handed the keys to Mahomes in 2018.

Smith was a really solid stopgap/bridge QB and there's value to that.  But if you pinned your hopes on winning a title on him, you were always going to fall short.  You needed a loaded roster around him just to get to the playoffs and win game(s) when you got there.  Harbaugh and Andy Reid both recognized this and moved on.

In my opinion Alex Smith and Jimmy G are essentially the same QB as they single-handedly can’t carry a team but with talent around them they are winning players. You can do far far worse than those two as your starting QB. Would like to have Garropolo as a backup juuuuust in case Zach isn’t the answer 

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7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I’m late to this thread, hence the back to back like I’m stalking you.

Anyway I’ve been meaning to tell you, you’ve been surprisingly good in Stranger Things. Every time your thin voice utters, “Eleven,” with that creepy intonation, the females in the Sperm family get wigged out. “Elllleven, let Papa make you well.” I’m getting chills just thinking about it now myself.

So, congrats on the mini-comeback. 

 

This is a pretty hilarious post for several very accurate reasons. 

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On 6/6/2022 at 9:45 AM, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Chicago has another type of pizza which I prefer to their traditional deep dish called double decker. 
We will order it 4-5 times a year. 

The traditional deep dish is almost like a meat pie or casserole. 

I from No NJ but now reside in Scottsdale... when we cam we traveled all over the valley in search of Pizza... finally found one about 10 miles south of me and the guy makes it like NY style...  

 

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On 6/6/2022 at 8:36 AM, Dunnie said:

My source ... inside source mind you ... told me the sources for the aformentioned sources should be henceforth disregarded as poppycock .... as any source worth any sort of credence would put their name on any inside information they might have sourced ... at least according to my source's source.

I agree.  And that applies to sports reporters that are looking for readers. Thet will take an off-the-cuff remark and turn it into an epic.  I like to prognosticate and discuss as much as the next guy/gal, but I often say that "entertainment" between games is just that. Entertainment 

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On 6/5/2022 at 5:34 PM, Warfish said:

NY Pizza can indeed be great, exceptional even, but there is aloooooooot of trash too, legit trash, especially in the city.  I went to a place last time I was in the city, some supposed "historic" place where NY Pizza got it's start.  Honestly, it was seriously sub-par.

And there are many exceptional pizzas elsewhere.  Different styles mostly, or more pure forms in Italy, etc. 

I embrace all forms of great pizza (as a good fat man should, lol).

The one thing I can't seem to find outside NY of equal quality, not that common round style (I've had just as good outside NY as in NY), but Sicilian (my personal favorite of the form).  I have never found the equal to NY Sicilian anywhere else.

 

 

And it comes back to NYC pizza is the best in the country 

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20 hours ago, SoFlaJets said:

I just don't see where you can draw that conclusion from what we've actually seen from the kid. He won 3 games last year and only played adequate in the Tennessee game, also Slats he was sacked 18 times vs AFCE teams and still missed 2 1/2 games vs our rivals. Wilson plays best when he's playing sandlot ball while Mike White is able to drop back, set up and throw strikes, Zach can't play that kind of ball and I know there OL was horrible but White played behind the same Swiss cheese line and managed much better play. Look, I truly hope I'm wrong about Zach Wilson, I WANT him to succeed, I long for the kind of seasons we had when we were winning with the Sanchez-Ryan-Revis teams I miss that kind of excitement

Mike White started three games and finished one. He has, to put it gently, a below average strength arm. White did not play behind the same line Zach did. The OL was in disarray to start the season, got better towards the middle of the year, then fell apart do to injury. Zach got the worst of it. Zach also saw his weapons hit the ER just as he was playing smarter at the end of the season. 
 
I’m sorry, but the ML love is just silly. The Jets just gave him the original pick tender which comes with a $2.5M salary. Any team in the league could’ve had him for a fifth round pick and an offer sheet, and there wasn’t even a rumor of someone showing interest. This is a league that currently has Darnold and Geno penciled in as starters this year. This is one of those weird Jet fan things like the Mangini love, where the rest of the league is just like, “uh, no.” 
 
I don’t know what Zach is going to be, but they’d be foolish not to invest everything in his potential success. There are only so many reps, especially nowadays with the current CBA. 

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30 minutes ago, slats said:

I’m sorry, but the ML love is just silly. The Jets just gave him at the original pick tender which comes with a $2.5M salary. Any team in the league could’ve had him for a fifth round pick and an offer sheet, and there wasn’t even a rumor of someone showing interest. This is a league that currently has Darnold and Geno penciled in as starters this year. This is one of those weird Jet fan things like the Mangini love, where the rest of the league is just like, “uh, no.” 

Its one of the long line of falling in love with every backup type or worse QB we've had.  From Matt Robinson on to Foley, Sims, Bollinger, Ratliff, Clemens and now Mike White.  

Theres a reason why there is an age old expression "back up QB is the best job in all of football".  Fools way to many fans into thinking we have a star QB sitting on the bench.  "Our Romo"! This backup to the back up is far a reach as the worst of the past group

Look at a Timmy Smith, a backup RB for the Washington Redskins.  He got to play in the Super Bowl and Smith shocked everyone when he ran for a Super Bowl record 204 yards.

Then he disappeared off the face of the Earth.  He just wasnt as good as he was in that one game

 

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29 minutes ago, slats said:

Mike White started three games and finished one. He has, to put it gently, a below average strength arm. White did not play behind the same line Zach did. The OL was in disarray to start the season, got better towards the middle of the year, then fell apart do to injury. Zach got the worst of it. Zach also saw his weapons hit the ER just as he was playing smarter at the end of the season. 
 
I’m sorry, but the ML love is just silly. The Jets just gave him at the original pick tender which comes with a $2.5M salary. Any team in the league could’ve had him for a fifth round pick and an offer sheet, and there wasn’t even a rumor of someone showing interest. This is a league that currently has Darnold and Geno penciled in as starters this year. This is one of those weird Jet fan things like the Mangini love, where the rest of the league is just like, “uh, no.” 
 
I don’t know what Zach is going to be, but they’d be foolish not to invest everything in his potential success. There are only so many reps, especially nowadays with the current CBA. 

I have no idea what Mike White could be playing a full season or most of one like Wilson did last year, but all I do know is handing the starting job over to the worst rated starting QB in the game in 2021 (https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-stats/passing) without any question or competition is exactly the type of move this team continues to make, and for the Jets, they always seem to end up as the WRONG choices. 

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20 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

I have no idea what Mike White could be playing a full season or most of one like Wilson did last year, but all I do know is handing the starting job over to the worst rated starting QB in the game in 2021 (https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-stats/passing) without any question or competition is exactly the type of move this team continues to make, and for the Jets, they always seem to end up as the WRONG choices. 

And in his limited game play, after not showing a thing in camp, MW had a QB rating of 75 putting him just ahead of J Fields.  

Using QB ratings on their own, without context in mind numbing.  Who would take a Baker Mayfield, D Jones, Heinecki or Goff over Wilson, Lawrence or Fields?  No one. 

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30 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

I have no idea what Mike White could be playing a full season or most of one like Wilson did last year, but all I do know is handing the starting job over to the worst rated starting QB in the game in 2021 (https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-stats/passing) without any question or competition is exactly the type of move this team continues to make, and for the Jets, they always seem to end up as the WRONG choices. 

Two of the top 5 QB's in the league right now had almost identical rookie years to ZW's.  If they thought like you they would have never became what they are...

You want to dislike Wilson, that's fine but if you want to understand why they've continued to believe he can be special just watch this 10 minute clip.  Just discusses his issues and what he's changed to fix them.  

Just looking at data in the aggregate is flawed - you have to watch growth - is he getting better?  The answer to that is a clear yes.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

I have no idea what Mike White could be playing a full season or most of one like Wilson did last year, but all I do know is handing the starting job over to the worst rated starting QB in the game in 2021 (https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-stats/passing) without any question or competition is exactly the type of move this team continues to make, and for the Jets, they always seem to end up as the WRONG choices. 

You could make the case that Zach Wilson should not have started on opening day last season, and I’d agree with you. They had no other viable option on the roster, and that was a mistake. If they told Joe Flacco that he’d start half the year, I think he would’ve resigned with the Jets, and I would’ve been good with that. Very good. But what’s done is done. 
 
It’s a business. They’ve got $35M guaranteed wrapped up in Zach Wilson, and they’re trying to do everything they can to make that a good investment. IMO, they’re doing it right, now. This is not the year for competition. #2 picks in the draft don’t compete, they’re handed jobs around the league. The Jags aren’t going to have a competition for Lawrence even though he was the league’s worst rated passer before Zach headed into the Buffalo buzzsaw with a pack of walking wounded. No, you build around him, prop him up, and see what he does with it. If he fails to progress enough this year, then year three you bring in a veteran to either push him forward or take his job. This year is still very much about Zach and I’m happy to see that they look to be doing a better job of it than last year. 

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36 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Its one of the long line of falling in love with every backup type or worse QB we've had.  From Matt Robinson on to Foley, Sims, Bollinger, Ratliff, Clemens and now Mike White.  

Theres a reason why there is an age old expression "back up QB is the best job in all of football".  Fools way to many fans into thinking we have a star QB sitting on the bench.  "Our Romo"! This backup to the back up is far a reach as the worst of the past group

Look at a Timmy Smith, a backup RB for the Washington Redskins.  He got to play in the Super Bowl and Smith shocked everyone when he ran for a Super Bowl record 204 yards.

Then he disappeared off the face of the Earth.  He just wasnt as good as he was in that one game

 

Look, I get where you are coming from, but there is a bunch of wrong in this post. 

The saying is "The back-up QB is the most popular guy on the team." 

I understand that Mike White may not be the savior as some jokingly act.  Still, "worst of the past group?"  Mike White has proven to be better than Sims, Bollinger, and Ratliff.  I'd argue that he is probably better than Robinson, Foley, and Clemens, but at least there is room for debate.  Certainly better than McElroy and those characters.

Pretty sure that Tim Smith had attitude, drug and injury issues or he would have been a fine player.  Guy had cocaine arrests and a bunch of "seen with suspected drug dealer" type incidents.  He tried to hold out after the super bowl.  Reported fat and got injured.  He still had a couple of more hundred yard games.  Point being the guy had a sh*t career, but it wasn't for lack of talent.  I also question people acting like White has Pennington's arm.  He didn't push the ball down the field, but that doesn't mean he has a chicken arm.  He was not durable and if he was so great he'd have gotten an offer somewhere.  I get that.  I get that Zach is a much better prospect.  Still, that should result in a better performance.  Or at least comparable.  Don't you think?

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19 minutes ago, slats said:

You could make the case that Zach Wilson should not have started on opening day last season, and I’d agree with you. They had no other viable option on the roster, and that was a mistake. If they told Joe Flacco that he’d start half the year, I think he would’ve resigned with the Jets, and I would’ve been good with that. Very good. But what’s done is done. 
 
It’s a business. They’ve got $35M guaranteed wrapped up in Zach Wilson, and they’re trying to do everything they can to make that a good investment. IMO, they’re doing it right, now. This is not the year for competition. #2 picks in the draft don’t compete, they’re handed jobs around the league. The Jags aren’t going to have a competition for Lawrence even though he was the league’s worst rated passer before Zach headed into the Buffalo buzzsaw with a pack of walking wounded. No, you build around him, prop him up, and see what he does with it. If he fails to progress enough this year, then year three you bring in a veteran to either push him forward or take his job. This year is still very much about Zach and I’m happy to see that they look to be doing a better job of it than last year. 

And draft the next future QB in next year's stronger draft before you are sort of forced to pick up the fifth year option.

 

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