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Report: Zach Wilson has struggled with accuracy in Jets OTAs


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12 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

And draft the next future QB in next year's stronger draft before you are sort of forced to pick up the fifth year option.

 

Depends on the season he has. That would surprise me, though, today. 

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15 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I get that.  I get that Zach is a much better prospect.  Still, that should result in a better performance.  Or at least comparable.  Don't you think?

People continue to forget or purposely not mention that MW was a 4 year vet.  

Yes, he didn't start before but he was around the league 4 years - he understands the speed of the game, understands how to read an NFL defense, understands the offense - 4 years is a long time compared to 3 months....Zach Wilson was in high school when Mike White became a pro.

It should have been clear to anyone watching that Wilson was struggling with mental part of the game - the speed of the game.  MW had a 4 year head start over him with that. 

What Wilson will become is still a massive question mark - with tremendous upside.  We KNOW what Mike White is..he had 4 years to show coaches what he was - and that is a 3rd string QB, nothing more.  But still good enough to stick in the NFL for 4 years - which is no easy task.  

Bottom line, you asked a question and the answer is.  No, Rookie ZW - in his first two months in the NFL shouldn't have been expected to outperform a 4 year vet.

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4 hours ago, Jets0712 said:


I’d say North Jersey
STAR TAVERN. Orange NJ. The absolute best


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

I’m sure it is.  There are great pizza places across the country it’s just how many great pizza places there are in NYC, in each borough.  I mean it’s telling how many pizza places across the country claim to be NY pizza

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33 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Look, I get where you are coming from, but there is a bunch of wrong in this post. 

The saying is "The back-up QB is the most popular guy on the team." 

I understand that Mike White may not be the savior as some jokingly act.  Still, "worst of the past group?"  Mike White has proven to be better than Sims, Bollinger, and Ratliff.  I'd argue that he is probably better than Robinson, Foley, and Clemens, but at least there is room for debate.  Certainly better than McElroy and those characters.

Pretty sure that Tim Smith had attitude, drug and injury issues or he would have been a fine player.  Guy had cocaine arrests and a bunch of "seen with suspected drug dealer" type incidents.  He tried to hold out after the super bowl.  Reported fat and got injured.  He still had a couple of more hundred yard games.  Point being the guy had a sh*t career, but it wasn't for lack of talent.  I also question people acting like White has Pennington's arm.  He didn't push the ball down the field, but that doesn't mean he has a chicken arm.  He was not durable and if he was so great he'd have gotten an offer somewhere.  I get that.  I get that Zach is a much better prospect.  Still, that should result in a better performance.  Or at least comparable.  Don't you think?

The best job in football or most popular with fans is the same thing, for the same reason.  Splitting hairs.  I meant MW is the worst of the group, the group being this teams QB.  He’s third string, the bottom QB on the team.  Might not be on the team when camp closes

 Giving a load of reasons that Tim Smith was a SB star who became a nobody a few months later doesn’t change the point that one game doesn’t make a career. 
I agree with your point of his arm strength being an issue.  I agree with everything after that part of your post

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

You want to dislike Wilson, that's fine but if you want to understand why they've continued to believe he can be special just watch this 10 minute clip.  Just discusses his issues and what he's changed to fix them.  

 

This just is NOT true-I want whoever the Jets starting QB is to be the MVP, whether it's Wilson, White or Flacco. I am a Jets fan through and through and the simple fact that I still go into every season with hope and with a lot of interest when almost all of my friends who were Jets fans growing up don't even bother watch football any longer and my posts here on JetNation and The Greenhouse and The Rivals boards before proves it. I just happen to think that Zach isn't the guy to get us to the Super bowl this season and think that perhaps the other two guys have more of what it takes to achieve that ultimate goal.

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1 minute ago, SoFlaJets said:

This just is NOT true-I want whoever the Jets starting QB is to be the MVP, whether it's Wilson, White or Flacco. I am a Jets fan through and through and the simple fact that I still go into every season with hope and with a lot of interest when almost all of my friends who were Jets fans growing up don't even bother watch football any longer and my posts here on JetNation and The Greenhouse and The Rivals boards before proves it. I just happen to think that Zach isn't the guy to get us to the Super bowl this season and think that perhaps the other two guys have more of what it takes to achieve that ultimate goal.

Honestly, I understand what you're saying and get it...

Here's the way I see it.

Would the Jet have been better with Flacco starting last year - probably.

Would the Jets have been good with Flacco starting last year - no.

In order to win in this league you NEED a top tier QB, pretty much the only way to find one is to draft him and give him a chance to succeed.  The Jets mistake last year was putting garbage around him, not really giving him a chance.

They seemed to have fixed that problem...let's see what he can do with an NFL caliber offense around him.

I understand your frustration - I really do and I get it.   But I also want to win a championship - and we're not  winning it without a top 10 QB.  So you have two ride this out and hope Wilson is the guy.

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5 hours ago, slats said:

Depends on the season he has. That would surprise me, though, today. 

What if Zach only plays marginally better. 

The results of which see a similar bump in numbers like Josh Allen had in his second year.  He throws for more yards.  He has a better TD to INT ratio.  A better completion percentage.    The Jets are more than likely still in Top 10 of the draft with a shot at one of the top QBs.  

The Jets have decision to make.  You are one more season away from having to decide on whether to pick up Zach's fifth year option.  If the Jets are not in love with him, he probably only has two seasons.  A veteran can get you in contention for the playoffs, but how much further? 

Do you not consider pulling a Cardinals move?  Stroud, Young and/or Levis are all staring at the Jets as their time on the clock starts.  How can you not consider?

I love Mac Jones.    I believe he will be even better this year.  However, even if he is better, but the gap is not closer between Josh Allen and the Bills.  I could see a scenario, if the Patriots are a 4-5 win team, the Patriots looking hard at a new QB.   

 

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6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

In order to win in this league you NEED a top tier QB, pretty much the only way to find one is to draft him and give him a chance to succeed.  The Jets mistake last year was putting garbage around him, not really giving him a chance.

I keep hearing this.  Is it true?  

The Rams won the super bowl with a guy they traded for last season.  Most of the teams in the playoffs did draft their guy, but the Titans, 49ers, Rams and Bucs did not. 

The year before the Bucs won with Brady, a free agent.  The Colts made the playoffs with Rivers, Brees was a FA, Titans with Tannehill.  The Redskins won their crappy division with what was left of Alex Smith (5-1), draftee Haskins (RIP, 1-5) and Mike White level UDFA Kyle Allen (1-3).  They trotted another 2nd team UDFA Heinicke out for the playoff game and gave Brady a run for his money, cutting the Bucs lead to 5 with 5 minutes left, losing 31-23.  

In 2019 Tannehill, Cousins, Brees and Garoppolo all made the playoffs.

Of the last 10 super bowls 7 were won by guys on the team that drafted them. Peyton Manning, Stafford and Brady were not on their original teams. Three of the seven were Brady and that is giving you Wentz for the Eagles who really won with Foles.  The only guys taken at the top of the draft. were Wentz, and Stafford and Peyton who were not on their original teams.  

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8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I keep hearing this.  Is it true?  

The Rams won the super bowl with a guy they traded for last season. 

Pretty unique situation there.  Not something you can exactly count on repeating itself to turn around the New York Jets if you are Joe Douglas.

Stafford had finally had enough and asked out of Detroit. 

Detroit's new GM came from the Rams and had a million ties to that organization, with the Lions in clear rebuilding mode and desperately seeking draft capital. 

Like no other team in the league, the Rams give away day 1 and 2 picks like Halloween candy.

Perfect storm.

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1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

I keep hearing this.  Is it true?  

The Rams won the super bowl with a guy they traded for last season.  Most of the teams in the playoffs did draft their guy, but the Titans, 49ers, Rams and Bucs did not. 

The year before the Bucs won with Brady, a free agent.  The Colts made the playoffs with Rivers, Brees was a FA, Titans with Tannehill.  The Redskins won their crappy division with the corpse of Alex Smith (5-1), draftee Haskins (1-5) and Mike White level UDFA Kyle Allen (1-3).  They trotted another 2nd team UDFA Heinicke out for the playoff game and gave Brady a run for his money, cutting the Bucs lead to 5 with 5 minutes left, losing 31-23.  

In 2019 Tannehill, Cousins, Brees and Garoppolo all made the playoffs.

Of the last 10 super bowls 7 were won by guys on the team that drafted them. Peyton Manning, Stafford and Brady were not on their original teams. Three of the seven were Brady and that is giving you Wentz for the Eagles who really won with Foles.  The only guys taken at the top of the draft. were Wentz, and Stafford and Peyton who were not on their original teams.  

Brady and Stafford and Manning are outliers...

The others are exactly the problem I'm referencing - good enough to keep you competitive but not enough to win you a championship - or get a high enough pick get the QB you need.  I have zero interest in the Foles, Jimmy G's and Tannehills of the world - NONE, ZERO....

Moreover, the teams that won were complete when they got those guys.  

So sure, if we could have gotten Stafford or Brady I'm all for it, otherwise you have to draft a QB.

If you want to argue this point pleases.  Tell me what QB the Jets should have signed that would have made this a good team last year?

With all of that said: I must agree that the league does seem to be changing, moving more toward an NBA model - which allows superstars to dictate where they want to play - the Stafford, Brady's, R. Wilsons are changing the NFL.  So, if Wilson fails AND the Jets have a solid team only requiring a QB to be a contender then sure - give away the farm and see if you can steal a superstar from someone.  Timing has to work out, but it would surely be possible.

 

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8 hours ago, SoFlaJets said:

This just is NOT true-I want whoever the Jets starting QB is to be the MVP, whether it's Wilson, White or Flacco. I am a Jets fan through and through and the simple fact that I still go into every season with hope and with a lot of interest when almost all of my friends who were Jets fans growing up don't even bother watch football any longer and my posts here on JetNation and The Greenhouse and The Rivals boards before proves it. I just happen to think that Zach isn't the guy to get us to the Super bowl this season and think that perhaps the other two guys have more of what it takes to achieve that ultimate goal.

You think a team full of rookies and 2nd yr players is going to the super bowl? Regardless whose qb they wouldn't. 

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6 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

What if Zach only plays marginally better. 

The results of which see a similar bump in numbers like Josh Allen had in his second year.  He throws for more yards.  He has a better TD to INT ratio.  A better completion percentage.    The Jets are more than likely still in Top 10 of the draft with a shot at one of the top QBs.  

The Jets have decision to make.  You are one more season away from having to decide on whether to pick up Zach's fifth year option.  If the Jets are not in love with him, he probably only has two seasons.  A veteran can get you in contention for the playoffs, but how much further? 

Do you not consider pulling a Cardinals move?  Stroud, Young and/or Levis are all staring at the Jets as their time on the clock starts.  How can you not consider?

I love Mac Jones.    I believe he will be even better this year.  However, even if he is better, but the gap is not closer between Josh Allen and the Bills.  I could see a scenario, if the Patriots are a 4-5 win team, the Patriots looking hard at a new QB.   

 

If Zach only plays marginally better but you're seeing improvement, and a top-tier QB prospect is sitting there, you draft the prospect and let them compete. If Zach plays poorly year 3, the rookie gets the car keys. If he plays well enough to want to extend him, the rookie gives you a bit of negotiating leverage on a long term contract, and then you trade the rookie for whatever you can get back. It becomes a pure risk-mitigation pick.

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25 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

If Zach only plays marginally better but you're seeing improvement, and a top-tier QB prospect is sitting there, you draft the prospect and let them compete. If Zach plays poorly year 3, the rookie gets the car keys. If he plays well enough to want to extend him, the rookie gives you a bit of negotiating leverage on a long term contract, and then you trade the rookie for whatever you can get back. It becomes a pure risk-mitigation pick.

Everything you’re saying here makes sense in theory and I wish teams operated more like this.  But sadly it just isn’t reality.  Wilson would have to tank hard for the Jets to draft a QB high next year.  

There’s just too much investment (financial AND emotional) when you draft a QB as high as Wilson was taken for teams to be willing to move on quickly.  

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14 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Two of the top 5 QB's in the league right now had almost identical rookie years to ZW's.  If they thought like you they would have never became what they are...

You want to dislike Wilson, that's fine but if you want to understand why they've continued to believe he can be special just watch this 10 minute clip.  Just discusses his issues and what he's changed to fix them.  

Just looking at data in the aggregate is flawed - you have to watch growth - is he getting better?  The answer to that is a clear yes.

 

 

Thanks for posting this video.  It was an encouraging watch.

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9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Everything you’re saying here makes sense in theory and I wish teams operated more like this.  But sadly it just isn’t reality.  Wilson would have to tank hard for the Jets to draft a QB high next year.  

There’s just too much investment (financial AND emotional) when you draft a QB as high as Wilson was taken for teams to be willing to move on quickly.  

This team is built to win over the next 3 or 4 years.  

If Zach doesn't step up in a legitimate way and they're not seeing the necessary growth (footwork growth, accuracy, feel for the game etc - all of those not improving) He will not be the starter in year 3.  But because it's built to win now, I don't think they draft a QB -  they will do what they can to get the best vet in house - using whatever draft capital and money necessary to do it.

At least that's the way I see it.

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9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Everything you’re saying here makes sense in theory and I wish teams operated more like this.  But sadly it just isn’t reality.  Wilson would have to tank hard for the Jets to draft a QB high next year.  

There’s just too much investment (financial AND emotional) when you draft a QB as high as Wilson was taken for teams to be willing to move on quickly.  

Would he?  

I am not saying the Jets will suck.  There are a lot of pieces in place.  Those pieces are waiting on Zach. 

Looking at your schedule, in the first 13 games, if Zach marginally improves.  Outside of the Bears, who are the layups?  Browns have question marks, but the D is decent.  In theory, you have a QB advantage against Pittsburgh, but the rest of that team is legit.  Patriots, Vikings and Phins are possible Ws.  Do you see Zach sweeping those games?  The Jets easily could be 3-10.

All I am saying is, the Jets could look and play better, but not see more wins. 

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17 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

What if Zach only plays marginally better. 

The results of which see a similar bump in numbers like Josh Allen had in his second year.  He throws for more yards.  He has a better TD to INT ratio.  A better completion percentage.    The Jets are more than likely still in Top 10 of the draft with a shot at one of the top QBs.  

The Jets have decision to make.  You are one more season away from having to decide on whether to pick up Zach's fifth year option.  If the Jets are not in love with him, he probably only has two seasons.  A veteran can get you in contention for the playoffs, but how much further? 

Do you not consider pulling a Cardinals move?  Stroud, Young and/or Levis are all staring at the Jets as their time on the clock starts.  How can you not consider?

I love Mac Jones.    I believe he will be even better this year.  However, even if he is better, but the gap is not closer between Josh Allen and the Bills.  I could see a scenario, if the Patriots are a 4-5 win team, the Patriots looking hard at a new QB.   

 

There no chance the Jets are drafting a QB next draft unless he regresses from his rookie season which there is no reason to believe will happen.  Shlt, if he plays like he did the last 5 games he'd have a good enough season that would stop any draft a QB talk. 

Bringing in a vet with this roster wouldnt work?   Why?  Worked in LA, has worked countless other times on countless other teams.  Theres a lot of nice young talent on this team now, with a vet QB I would expect them to push the Pats and possibly the fish 

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8 hours ago, Dinamite said:

Thanks for posting this video.  It was an encouraging watch.

I think what's most interesting is how really close he is - how that one hitch step can cause that much of a problem.  How the timing of this offense is that nuanced.

As he learns the offense more and doesn't have to think as much and just react you should expect to see massive improvement.    That does take time though.

Having WR's that can be man coverage should really help.  He had very little of that late last year (when he started to figure things out). Hopefully we can stay healthy and GW pick sup the offense quickly.

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10 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

If Zach only plays marginally better but you're seeing improvement, and a top-tier QB prospect is sitting there, you draft the prospect and let them compete. If Zach plays poorly year 3, the rookie gets the car keys. If he plays well enough to want to extend him, the rookie gives you a bit of negotiating leverage on a long term contract, and then you trade the rookie for whatever you can get back. It becomes a pure risk-mitigation pick.

I dont see it.  If he shows marginal improvement you dont wont see them risk wasting a 1st on a QB over getting a starter at a position of need, who can help the team win in year 3.   Add in a QB probably sets them back at least a year where a ZW could make the huge step forward.  As in his example Josh Allen improved marginally in year 2 and exploded into a leagues top QB in year 3.

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28 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think what's most interesting is how really close he is - how that one hitch step can cause that much of a problem.  How the timing of this offense is that nuanced.

As he learns the offense more and doesn't have to think as much and just react you should expect to see massive improvement.    That does take time though.

Having WR's that can be man coverage should really help.  He had very little of that late last year (when he started to figure things out). Hopefully we can stay healthy and GW pick sup the offense quickly.

So much of getting that footwork seems to be about confidence.  Confidence to trust his WR will be there and confidence that hes making the right read and holding onto the ball a sec longer to confirm it is.  Its a huge part of being a rookie QB and turning into a NFL QB.  He was miles away better in the 2nd half of the season, unfortunately the players around him due to injury didnt give him the statistical bump up his improved play should have reflected 

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5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

There no chance the Jets are drafting a QB next draft unless he regresses from his rookie season which there is no reason to believe will happen.  Shlt, if he plays like he did the last 5 games he'd have a good enough season that would stop any draft a QB talk. 

Bringing in a vet with this roster wouldnt work?   Why?  Worked in LA, has worked countless other times on countless other teams.  Theres a lot of nice young talent on this team now, with a vet QB I would expect them to push the Pats and possibly the fish 

Never say never.

His numbers when he came back from injury were good (TY Profootball reference; 5 to 2 TD to INT ratio with 4 rushing TDs).  His remaining  passing numbers okayish (75 rtg; 53%).  Those numbers were better than his 'first half' numbers.  Progress.   His second half #s would put him between Baker and Fields in QB rtg.  10 more points and he is in Tua's neighborhood. 

This leaves the Jets one season before having to decide on whether to pickup his 5th year option.  If he is projecting to be a  10-15 guy, why would you?  He is at best a distant second in the division as far as QBs go.   What is his QB rank in the AFC?  8th?  

My whole point is, if the Jets goal is to be a perpetual 8-10 win team with an on the fringe of being a top 10 QB.  Fine.  However, if the Jets find themselves in position to draft one of the top QBs next year and Zach is only looking like that 10ish ranked QB.  Pull the band aid a take a shot.  Otherwise, you find yourself in the Kirk Cousins' zone. 

A vet can be the solution.  Tell me the vet.  If you get a Stafford level talent.  Sure.  If not..... 

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Zach is bottom 15 this year ... we are drafting a QB in the spring.. book it. Then we will have competition at the position

I am pulling for him to rise up this year and end the discussion.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk



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On 6/9/2022 at 8:33 AM, Jet Nut said:

There no chance the Jets are drafting a QB next draft unless he regresses from his rookie season which there is no reason to believe will happen.  Shlt, if he plays like he did the last 5 games he'd have a good enough season that would stop any draft a QB talk

Would he? He didn't throw a pick in the final five games... But here are his stats from the final five games, extrapolated over a 17 game season.

245 of 476 (51.43%) for 2,703 yards (159 YPG). 10 TDs. 5.7 YPA.

Let's go back 6 games -- since I'm sure you'd want the Eagles game included here.

269 of 504 (53.37%) for 2,892 yards (170 YPG) 14 TDs, Still 5.7 YPA.

These number are ghastly. If this is what his 2022 production looks like we're likely drafting in the top 5 again and picking a QB is absolutely in the conversation. I would tend to agree that signing a veteran would be more likely than drafting another QB, but you'd have to have the conversation, especially if CJ Stroud or Bryce Young are there.

 

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I do think Wilson is on a shorter leash than people think. He was flat out bad last year - Not by NFL standards but by NFL rookie standards. That’s why these reports are concerning. It’s not people overreacting to a couple of practices in June so much as it’s people seeing the same problems persisting. 

He has to drastically improve this year and so you’d want yo start seeing a jump. Improvement should be a given due to the players around him but we can’t continue to feel like the QB is holding us back. That was never made more obvious than the games Zach missed in 2021.

If he is playing at a level below the average NFL starter level in 2022 then I think you have to give the talent on this team a chance and bring in a veteran the following season. No one spectacular and not a top 10 draft pick @PFSIKH as I think our fans are sick to death of swinging and missing on young QB’s. A Jimmy G type who will win in the right situation. The ambition for this franchise right now is just competing, forget f*cking superbowls. 

If Zach legitimately beats out that veteran that’s great, if not he can kick rocks because if he’s getting outplayed by a just above average NFL starter in year three then he’s just not developing into the star we thought we drafted.

Big year for him. He has to produce.

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On 6/8/2022 at 7:11 AM, FidelioJet said:

People continue to forget or purposely not mention that MW was a 4 year vet.  

A 4-year vet accustomed to seeing maybe a handful of reps in training camp and zero game week reps with the ones.

Who had as far as I know never taken a live snap in a real game prior to taking the field in relief of ZW vs NE.

One thing I am fairly certain of:  Wilson might not be a complete bust, but the Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and “Mormon Mahomes” stuff, that ain’t happening…

 

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17 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Would he? He didn't throw a pick in the final five games... But here are his stats from the final five games, extrapolated over a 17 game season.

245 of 476 (51.43%) for 2,703 yards (159 YPG). 10 TDs. 5.7 YPA.

Let's go back 6 games -- since I'm sure you'd want the Eagles game included here.

269 of 504 (53.37%) for 2,892 yards (170 YPG) 14 TDs, Still 5.7 YPA.

These number are ghastly. If this is what his 2022 production looks like we're likely drafting in the top 5 again and picking a QB is absolutely in the conversation. I would tend to agree that signing a veteran would be more likely than drafting another QB, but you'd have to have the conversation, especially if CJ Stroud or Bryce Young are there.

 

 

Look, he wasn't good but you know as well as everyone here - the talent level Zach was playing with the last five games was ghastly.  Any QB would have been hard pressed to succeed with that team.

I imagine you watch every play of every game (like most of us)  He was noticeably a better QB and I think that's indisputable.  

Now, there are a should be real concerns - I, like many here, am very concerned with these early reports.  

But I just think this post is disingenuous.

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Just now, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

A 4-year vet accustomed to seeing maybe a handful of reps in training camp and zero game week reps with the ones.

Who had as far as I know never taken a live snap in a real game prior to taking the field in relief of ZW vs NE.

One thing I am fairly certain of:  Wilson might not be a complete bust, but the Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and “Mormon Mahomes” stuff, that ain’t happening.

 

There is simply no way to know that.

If fact, I couldn't disagree more with this entire post more.  I don't think there's middle ground for Zach.

He's either going to be an explosive, top level QB or he's going to bust in a big way.

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I would be leery of projecting carry over from final games of rookie season into this season.

Sam Darnold also finished his rookie season in a blaze of mini-glory, and we know how that has turned out.

The reality is when you are a 3 or 4 win team by December, opposing teams (other than NE) don’t game plan for you, don’t take you seriously.  

You tend to get their weakest efforts.  The other team figures they can just “show up” and collect the W, which creates opportunity for you if you are prepared and motivated.

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32 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

 

Look, he wasn't good but you know as well as everyone here - the talent level Zach was playing with the last five games was ghastly.  Any QB would have been hard pressed to succeed with that team.

I imagine you watch every play of every game (like most of us)  He was noticeably a better QB and I think that's indisputable.  

Now, there are a should be real concerns - I, like many here, am very concerned with these early reports.  

But I just think this post is disingenuous.

He was certainly noticeably better in the Bucs game, and looked great in the first half of the Eagles game. And I agree injuries at WR left him with largely scrubs at WR. I don't put much stock in the Week 18 game against the Bills, for instance, which was Keenan Cole and a bunch of practice squad types against the best defense in the NFL.

But I also think his "improvement" at the end of the season is largely overstated by Jets fans who want to believe. He was basically neutered and told to stop turning the ball over to give us a chance, which he did. The only game where I would say he was legitimately good and showed flashes that make you think "he looks like the guy" was the Bucs game. Easily his high water mark as an NFL QB.

I just have a hard time getting hyped about how "he improved down the stretch" when you have hideous games like the Saints game (maybe his worst game as a pro, neck and neck with the Broncos game and the first Pats game) and "nothing" games like his game against the Texans and Jags in there where he was totally unspectacular against bad teams. Even the wild fluctuation between halves like with the 2nd Dolphins game and the Eagles game are kind of hard to wrap your head around.

I've debated this on this forum before, but Sam Darnold showed significantly more "improvement" over the final games of his rookie season than Wilson did -- and we were badly burned on that one. I need to see more than one "good game" from Wilson before I start to buy in, but that's just me.

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52 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I do think Wilson is on a shorter leash than people think. He was flat out bad last year - Not by NFL standards but by NFL rookie standards. That’s why these reports are concerning. It’s not people overreacting to a couple of practices in June so much as it’s people seeing the same problems persisting. 

Bingo.

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