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New York sports finally on the way back up after dreadful malaise


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11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That’s pretty cool.  Though I think no out of town jerseys allowed is weak, as trying to block out of town fans from buying seats.  It’s petty to me but I understand it, Carolina did just that

Im in agreement. Steve Yzerman I believe started that many years ago.  YOu know being in FLA part of the time...  these places are filled with us.  Canes games historically were like away games when the Rangers, Islanders, Flyers or Bruins are in town. 

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34 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Can you find a list where he is not ranked number one?  I couldn't.  I hear you and agree, I was simply surprised I didn't see any list ...  where he isn't number 1.

There are all kind of lists like that. Doesn't make them right. Or even relevant. There is just so much subjectivity because of era and how much baseball has changed. For the 20's, Ruth absolutely has to be considered the best baseball player of that era. Everything else is guesswork when putting it into the context of "all-time greatest". Much like with football and quarterbacks and comparing stats from the 60's to modern day. It is an impossible patchwork.

First random ranking without Ruth #1

https://clutchpoints.com/updating-and-ranking-the-50-greatest-mlb-players-of-all-time/

2. Babe Ruth

Stats: 182.5 WAR, .342 AVG, 1.164 OPS, 2214 RBIs

Accolades: MVP x 1, All-Star x 2, World Series x 7

The chalk number one pick for almost a century, Babe Ruth is somehow not overhyped. The Babe was an incredible hitter and pitcher and, most importantly, an incredible winner. His 182.5 WAR is easily the best on this list and hardly touched by anyone. He is deserving to be number one on most all-time lists and his prowess is still almost indescribable.

1. Ken Griffey Jr

Stats: 83.8 WAR, .284 AVG, .907 OPS, 1836 RBIs

Accolades: MVP x 1, All-Star x 13, Gold Glove x 10, Silver Slugger x 7

This is, potentially, a controversial pick, but Griffey Jr has earned this ranking both on and off the field. The Kid, as he was known, changed baseball forever. He played with a swagger and power the sport had never seen before. He was one of the greatest hitters ever, he could hit for average and for power and he has the prettiest swing in the history of the sport. He is also a top defensive center fielder ever, right up there with Willie Mays. He was the first player to be unanimously elected to the Hall of Fame. Griffey Jr was an incredible ambassador for the sport and he remains that to this day. Ken Griffey Jr is the best, and most important, player in MLB history.

 

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11 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

There are all kind of lists like that. Doesn't make them right. Or even relevant. There is just so much subjectivity because of era and how much baseball has changed. For the 20's, Ruth absolutely has to be considered the best baseball player of that era. Everything else is guesswork when putting it into the context of "all-time greatest". Much like with football and quarterbacks and comparing stats from the 60's to modern day. It is an impossible patchwork.

First random ranking without Ruth #1

https://clutchpoints.com/updating-and-ranking-the-50-greatest-mlb-players-of-all-time/

2. Babe Ruth

Stats: 182.5 WAR, .342 AVG, 1.164 OPS, 2214 RBIs

Accolades: MVP x 1, All-Star x 2, World Series x 7

The chalk number one pick for almost a century, Babe Ruth is somehow not overhyped. The Babe was an incredible hitter and pitcher and, most importantly, an incredible winner. His 182.5 WAR is easily the best on this list and hardly touched by anyone. He is deserving to be number one on most all-time lists and his prowess is still almost indescribable.

1. Ken Griffey Jr

Stats: 83.8 WAR, .284 AVG, .907 OPS, 1836 RBIs

Accolades: MVP x 1, All-Star x 13, Gold Glove x 10, Silver Slugger x 7

This is, potentially, a controversial pick, but Griffey Jr has earned this ranking both on and off the field. The Kid, as he was known, changed baseball forever. He played with a swagger and power the sport had never seen before. He was one of the greatest hitters ever, he could hit for average and for power and he has the prettiest swing in the history of the sport. He is also a top defensive center fielder ever, right up there with Willie Mays. He was the first player to be unanimously elected to the Hall of Fame. Griffey Jr was an incredible ambassador for the sport and he remains that to this day. Ken Griffey Jr is the best, and most important, player in MLB history.

 

I'm a Yanks fan, but I'll take Griffey Jr. #1 every single time in an all-time draft.

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11 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

There are all kind of lists like that. Doesn't make them right. Or even relevant. There is just so much subjectivity because of era and how much baseball has changed. For the 20's, Ruth absolutely has to be considered the best baseball player of that era. Everything else is guesswork when putting it into the context of "all-time greatest". Much like with football and quarterbacks and comparing stats from the 60's to modern day. It is an impossible patchwork.

First random ranking without Ruth #1

https://clutchpoints.com/updating-and-ranking-the-50-greatest-mlb-players-of-all-time/

2. Babe Ruth

Stats: 182.5 WAR, .342 AVG, 1.164 OPS, 2214 RBIs

Accolades: MVP x 1, All-Star x 2, World Series x 7

The chalk number one pick for almost a century, Babe Ruth is somehow not overhyped. The Babe was an incredible hitter and pitcher and, most importantly, an incredible winner. His 182.5 WAR is easily the best on this list and hardly touched by anyone. He is deserving to be number one on most all-time lists and his prowess is still almost indescribable.

1. Ken Griffey Jr

Stats: 83.8 WAR, .284 AVG, .907 OPS, 1836 RBIs

Accolades: MVP x 1, All-Star x 13, Gold Glove x 10, Silver Slugger x 7

This is, potentially, a controversial pick, but Griffey Jr has earned this ranking both on and off the field. The Kid, as he was known, changed baseball forever. He played with a swagger and power the sport had never seen before. He was one of the greatest hitters ever, he could hit for average and for power and he has the prettiest swing in the history of the sport. He is also a top defensive center fielder ever, right up there with Willie Mays. He was the first player to be unanimously elected to the Hall of Fame. Griffey Jr was an incredible ambassador for the sport and he remains that to this day. Ken Griffey Jr is the best, and most important, player in MLB history.

 

I remember a show years ago, with Willie, Griffey Jr.,Ted Williams and Tony Gwynn. I believe it was Bob Costas' show. Willie looked right at JR. and told him, to paraphrase, "you are the closet player I've ever seen to me." JR looked stunned for a minute, and then smiled for about 5 minutes. I still get gooesbumps thinking about Willie saying that to a player. I just wish it would have been about  me.😁 I'm 64, and the 3 best players I've seen are 1) Willie 2)JR 3) Michael Jack Schmidt. 

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5 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

So we should stop mentioning the fact that the greatest player of all time was a Yankee and we have 2 of the top 5 of all time?

 

Look it up. There is no list that doesn't have Ruth as greatest of all time.  

 

Man, that must have been incredible for you to watch him play.

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Not to pour cold water on this thread but...   We have 2 NBA teams, 3 NHL teams, 2 MLB teams and 2 NFL football teams.   It's almost impossible to not be hoisting banners in this city on a yearly basis in at least one sport if we had any competent ownership.  

Boston with a 25 letter alphabet and 1 team in all 4 sports is beating our brains in on a comparative basis.   As a NYer I have a basic hatred for the Golden State/SF/Oakland Warriors and yet the prospect of another banner being lifted over the fat beer swilling leprechaun is bringing up childhood trauma that apparently I haven't fully suppressed.   I find myself watching Celtic games with a loaded shot gun on my lap and a bottle of cheap whisky in hand.  

As invested as I'am in the Rangers hoisting another cup, The Mets and Yankees meeting in another subway series and the Jets winning a SB against Tom Brady and the Tampa Bay Bucks after vanquishing the NE Patriots in the AFC Championship game in Foxboro, the prospect of another Celtic Championship has me contemplating ending it all.  

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45 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

There are all kind of lists like that. Doesn't make them right. Or even relevant. There is just so much subjectivity because of era and how much baseball has changed. For the 20's, Ruth absolutely has to be considered the best baseball player of that era. Everything else is guesswork when putting it into the context of "all-time greatest". Much like with football and quarterbacks and comparing stats from the 60's to modern day. It is an impossible patchwork.

First random ranking without Ruth #1

https://clutchpoints.com/updating-and-ranking-the-50-greatest-mlb-players-of-all-time/

2. Babe Ruth

Stats: 182.5 WAR, .342 AVG, 1.164 OPS, 2214 RBIs

Accolades: MVP x 1, All-Star x 2, World Series x 7

The chalk number one pick for almost a century, Babe Ruth is somehow not overhyped. The Babe was an incredible hitter and pitcher and, most importantly, an incredible winner. His 182.5 WAR is easily the best on this list and hardly touched by anyone. He is deserving to be number one on most all-time lists and his prowess is still almost indescribable.

1. Ken Griffey Jr

Stats: 83.8 WAR, .284 AVG, .907 OPS, 1836 RBIs

Accolades: MVP x 1, All-Star x 13, Gold Glove x 10, Silver Slugger x 7

This is, potentially, a controversial pick, but Griffey Jr has earned this ranking both on and off the field. The Kid, as he was known, changed baseball forever. He played with a swagger and power the sport had never seen before. He was one of the greatest hitters ever, he could hit for average and for power and he has the prettiest swing in the history of the sport. He is also a top defensive center fielder ever, right up there with Willie Mays. He was the first player to be unanimously elected to the Hall of Fame. Griffey Jr was an incredible ambassador for the sport and he remains that to this day. Ken Griffey Jr is the best, and most important, player in MLB history.

 

End of the day these conversations are always dependent on how much the guy is willing to factor in racism and/or steroids. Campanella lost what, like half a decade of a career? Come on. 

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1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

There are all kind of lists like that. Doesn't make them right. Or even relevant. There is just so much subjectivity because of era and how much baseball has changed. For the 20's, Ruth absolutely has to be considered the best baseball player of that era. Everything else is guesswork when putting it into the context of "all-time greatest". Much like with football and quarterbacks and comparing stats from the 60's to modern day. It is an impossible patchwork.

First random ranking without Ruth #1

https://clutchpoints.com/updating-and-ranking-the-50-greatest-mlb-players-of-all-time/

2. Babe Ruth

Stats: 182.5 WAR, .342 AVG, 1.164 OPS, 2214 RBIs

Accolades: MVP x 1, All-Star x 2, World Series x 7

The chalk number one pick for almost a century, Babe Ruth is somehow not overhyped. The Babe was an incredible hitter and pitcher and, most importantly, an incredible winner. His 182.5 WAR is easily the best on this list and hardly touched by anyone. He is deserving to be number one on most all-time lists and his prowess is still almost indescribable.

1. Ken Griffey Jr

Stats: 83.8 WAR, .284 AVG, .907 OPS, 1836 RBIs

Accolades: MVP x 1, All-Star x 13, Gold Glove x 10, Silver Slugger x 7

This is, potentially, a controversial pick, but Griffey Jr has earned this ranking both on and off the field. The Kid, as he was known, changed baseball forever. He played with a swagger and power the sport had never seen before. He was one of the greatest hitters ever, he could hit for average and for power and he has the prettiest swing in the history of the sport. He is also a top defensive center fielder ever, right up there with Willie Mays. He was the first player to be unanimously elected to the Hall of Fame. Griffey Jr was an incredible ambassador for the sport and he remains that to this day. Ken Griffey Jr is the best, and most important, player in MLB history.

 

 

1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I'm a Yanks fan, but I'll take Griffey Jr. #1 every single time in an all-time draft.

Yeah I won't argue Griffey. Was pretty solid.  I use the number 1 example with young kids who say Jeter is best Yankee etc....   I try to get them to find an independent list where Jeter is ranked in front of Mantle, Ruth etc.

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These discussions of championships won by cities simply don't apply to metro NYC. NYC has 2 football teams, 2 baseball teams, 3 hockey teams and 2 basketball teams.  Virtually every NY sports fan roots for one team in each sport and absolutely despises the other NY team that plays the same sport. So if the Yankees win a title, that not only doesn't end the drought for Mets fans, it is much worse.  Islanders fans are rooting for any other team to win the Cup this season besides the Rangers, including the Lightning ( who are hated by Islanders fans after the past two playoff season losses to them).  If you are a Jets, Mets, Islanders and Nets/Knicks fan - your teams have not won a title since the 1980s.  The Yankees/Rangers/Giants winning since the 80s did not end the drought for the Jets/Islanders/Mets fan and, in fact, made the drought all the more painful. 

 

So to say that things are looking up because the Rangers are in the hunt and the Yankees are winning does absolutely nothing for half the sports fans in this area

Other cities do not have multiple teams and those cities are basically unified when a team wins.  I was in Philly when the Eagles were in the SB and it was nuts. It 's never like that in NY because of the split loyalty.  I had Mets season tickets in 2000 and went to the Subway Series. It was such a disappointment. Not just because the Mets lost, but because the excitement of the Mets home games at Shea was ruined because half the stadium was Yankees fans. While the division and NL championship were electric and a blast, the Series was just plain annoying.  

Any article or post that talks about how a NY sports drought is ending when a team wins a title is just completely ignorant of the NYC metro sports scene.  I'd rather have the drought continue than witness a Yankees/Rangers/Giants title (I couldn't care less about pro hoops).  

 

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26 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

 So if the Yankees win a title, that not only doesn't end the drought for Mets fans, it is much worse.

I think we're all used to that at this point. Some things still twist the knife though, for sure. Doc and Darryl winning rings for the Death Star still hurts. 

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4 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Im in agreement. Steve Yzerman I believe started that many years ago.  YOu know being in FLA part of the time...  these places are filled with us.  Canes games historically were like away games when the Rangers, Islanders, Flyers or Bruins are in town. 

Exactly.  They sure dont have a problem taking my $$ for regular season games when they cant fill the place.   Now wanting to get petty and keep opponents fans out is ridiculous.  Never heard of garbage like this before in the NY/NJ market.  

Im in SFL, I go to Ranger Panther games every year with family and friends, we're all Ranger fans and as you said, whenever were playing the Panthers its a Ranger home game.  I went to Panthers Flyers, Panthers Bruins and it was almost the same thing.  You watch a game vs the Steelers and then you hear how well their fans travel.  I think the Rams were going to do something similar and were ripped over it

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2 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

These discussions of championships won by cities simply don't apply to metro NYC. NYC has 2 football teams, 2 baseball teams, 3 hockey teams and 2 basketball teams.  Virtually every NY sports fan roots for one team in each sport and absolutely despises the other NY team that plays the same sport. So if the Yankees win a title, that not only doesn't end the drought for Mets fans, it is much worse.  Islanders fans are rooting for any other team to win the Cup this season besides the Rangers, including the Lightning ( who are hated by Islanders fans after the past two playoff season losses to them).  If you are a Jets, Mets, Islanders and Nets/Knicks fan - your teams have not won a title since the 1980s.  The Yankees/Rangers/Giants winning since the 80s did not end the drought for the Jets/Islanders/Mets fan and, in fact, made the drought all the more painful. 

 

So to say that things are looking up because the Rangers are in the hunt and the Yankees are winning does absolutely nothing for half the sports fans in this area

Other cities do not have multiple teams and those cities are basically unified when a team wins.  I was in Philly when the Eagles were in the SB and it was nuts. It 's never like that in NY because of the split loyalty.  I had Mets season tickets in 2000 and went to the Subway Series. It was such a disappointment. Not just because the Mets lost, but because the excitement of the Mets home games at Shea was ruined because half the stadium was Yankees fans. While the division and NL championship were electric and a blast, the Series was just plain annoying.  

Any article or post that talks about how a NY sports drought is ending when a team wins a title is just completely ignorant of the NYC metro sports scene.  I'd rather have the drought continue than witness a Yankees/Rangers/Giants title (I couldn't care less about pro hoops).  

 

There are more NY Giant and Jets fans in Metro NY than there are Eagle fans in the Solar system.   That's why when you have two football teams in a metro area of 20 plus million a championship generates more fans, more attention, more press and more celebration than what goes on when Philadelphia wins a championship.   Granted the looting and vandelism in Philadelphia after their SB victory was spectacularly nuts.  

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2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I think we're all used to that at this point. Some things still twist the knife though, for sure. Doc and Darryl winning rings for the Death Star still hurts. 

I grew up near Shea and was an avid Mets fan in the mid 60's when they sucked.  Loved them and hated the Yankees.  My love of the Mets was rewarded.  69 was perhaps the greatest baseball season of my life.  It was magic.   Sadly the owner of my beloved team did two things.   They decided to publicly embarrass Cleon Jones for having sex in a Van and trade away Tom Seaver.  Cleon was the first home grown player that really produced.  He had a great year in 69.   Seaver of course was the greatest pitcher NYC ever had in the modern era.  He was also dumped by the Mets owners. 

I was happy when Seaver won his 300th in NYC and I was also happy for Strawberry who while a confused and amazingly talented player was hunted by demons.  Even with his issues Strawberry was an incredibly likeable and vulnerable man.  You couldn't help but like him despite his personal flaws. The Yankees gave him a home and treated him well and he produced in a big spot.   I always rooted for him.

As a Met fan with family roots that go back to the NY Giants and Brooklyn Dodgers the Mets were my home.   The Yankees may have been the Death Star but the Death Star treated some of the greatest Mets players better than the Mets did.   I now always root for the Yankees.   Still would love to see another subway series.  A competitive one and while at Yankee stadium the 14 year old boy in me would be chanting "Lets go Mets".   

PS:  The only Mets moment comparable to the 69 season was game 6  of the 1986 playoffs when they beat Houston in 16 innings to get to the WS.  Everyone knew if they lost game 6 Mike Scott was going to beat us in game 7. Every Mets fan hung on every pitch after we tied the game with 3 in the 9th.   Watching Keith Hernadez tell Orasco to throw a ******* strike because he couldn't take it any more was priceless.  The Red Sox victory was simply the cherry on top.  

Lets go Rangers, Potvin Sucks!

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15 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I grew up near Shea and was an avid Mets fan in the mid 60's when they sucked.  Loved them and hated the Yankees.  My love of the Mets was rewarded.  69 was perhaps the greatest baseball season of my life.  It was magic.   Sadly the owner of my beloved team did two things.   They decided to publicly embarrass Cleon Jones for having sex in a Van and trade away Tom Seaver.  Cleon was the first home grown player that really produced.  He had a great year in 69.   Seaver of course was the greatest pitcher NYC ever had in the modern era.  He was also dumped by the Mets owners. 

I was happy when Seaver won his 300th in NYC and I was also happy for Strawberry who while a confused and amazingly talented player was hunted by demons.  Even with his issues Strawberry was an incredibly likeable and vulnerable man.  You couldn't help but like him despite his personal flaws. The Yankees gave him a home and treated him well and he produced in a big spot.   I always rooted for him.

As a Met fan with family roots that go back to the NY Giants and Brooklyn Dodgers the Mets were my home.   The Yankees may have been the Death Star but the Death Star treated some of the greatest Mets players better than the Mets did.   I now always root for the Yankees.   Still would love to see another subway series.  A competitive one and while at Yankee stadium the 14 year old boy in me would be chanting "Lets go Mets".   

PS:  The only Mets moment comparable to the 69 season was game 6  of the 1986 playoffs when they beat Houston in 16 innings to get to the WS.  Everyone knew if they lost game 6 Mike Scott was going to beat us in game 7. Every Mets fan hung on every pitch after we tied the game with 3 in the 9th.   Watching Keith Hernadez tell Orasco to throw a ******* strike because he couldn't take it any more was priceless.  The Red Sox victory was simply the cherry on top.  

Lets go Rangers, Potvin Sucks!

Hernandez told Orosco, "If you throw another Bleeping fastball, I am going to kill you".  

Ah, a time when closers went as many as 3 innings.

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5 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I think we're all used to that at this point. Some things still twist the knife though, for sure. Doc and Darryl winning rings for the Death Star still hurts. 

Never thought about that....  always felt like Yanks picked up 2 drug rehab'd former greats etc.   I HATE the picture of Boggs after 96 on the police horse. FUKK him!!!

download.jpg

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3 hours ago, Biggs said:

I grew up near Shea and was an avid Mets fan in the mid 60's when they sucked.  Loved them and hated the Yankees.  My love of the Mets was rewarded.  69 was perhaps the greatest baseball season of my life.  It was magic.   Sadly the owner of my beloved team did two things.   They decided to publicly embarrass Cleon Jones for having sex in a Van and trade away Tom Seaver.  Cleon was the first home grown player that really produced.  He had a great year in 69.   Seaver of course was the greatest pitcher NYC ever had in the modern era.  He was also dumped by the Mets owners. 

I was happy when Seaver won his 300th in NYC and I was also happy for Strawberry who while a confused and amazingly talented player was hunted by demons.  Even with his issues Strawberry was an incredibly likeable and vulnerable man.  You couldn't help but like him despite his personal flaws. The Yankees gave him a home and treated him well and he produced in a big spot.   I always rooted for him.

As a Met fan with family roots that go back to the NY Giants and Brooklyn Dodgers the Mets were my home.   The Yankees may have been the Death Star but the Death Star treated some of the greatest Mets players better than the Mets did.   I now always root for the Yankees.   Still would love to see another subway series.  A competitive one and while at Yankee stadium the 14 year old boy in me would be chanting "Lets go Mets".   

PS:  The only Mets moment comparable to the 69 season was game 6  of the 1986 playoffs when they beat Houston in 16 innings to get to the WS.  Everyone knew if they lost game 6 Mike Scott was going to beat us in game 7. Every Mets fan hung on every pitch after we tied the game with 3 in the 9th.   Watching Keith Hernadez tell Orasco to throw a ******* strike because he couldn't take it any more was priceless.  The Red Sox victory was simply the cherry on top.  

Lets go Rangers, Potvin Sucks!

I worked for PWC in the 80's. Would sneak out to Shea in the afternoon on the 7 train. The days of day time weekday baseball. Saw the Gooden "Return" game after his drug issue/injury can't remember.  Summer of 87 I believe.  Shea was packed.   Game 6 vs Houston. Missed my train in Penn to watch inning 9. Who knew I'd be there til almost 8pm or later. Great game. Scott looked unhittable.

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36 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Never thought about that....  always felt like Yanks picked up 2 drug rehab'd former greats etc.   I HATE the picture of Boggs after 96 on the police horse. FUKK him!!!

download.jpg

Everyone was happy that they got their lives together for a brief period of time. I don’t know anyone that was happy they did it while wearing the Imperial Guard Uniforms. Doc throwing a no-no in the Bronx was heartbreaking. 

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5 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Everyone was happy that they got their lives together for a brief period of time. I don’t know anyone that was happy they did it while wearing the Imperial Guard Uniforms. Doc throwing a no-no in the Bronx was heartbreaking. 

I'm NOT a Mets hater. As a Jets fan , so many of my buddies are Mets fans and I want it for them.  I have no love for Doc or Daryl but admired their talent and their comeback and respect them.  Doc could have been a top 10 pitcher of all time.  He was that good. Almost unhittable. My dad was a Yankee fan and I inherited it from him. 

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15 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

I'm NOT a Mets hater. As a Jets fan , so many of my buddies are Mets fans and I want it for them.  I have no love for Doc or Daryl but admired their talent and their comeback and respect them.  Doc could have been a top 10 pitcher of all time.  He was that good. Almost unhittable. My dad was a Yankee fan and I inherited it from him. 

Doc is the 🐐 Met. Not even up for debate IMO. DeGrom’s getting close though. Real close. 

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10 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I was trying to find his WS stats and had trouble. 

Come on bud. Don't bring that here. You really want me to tell you that using your logic, you'd take Brad Johnson over Dan Marino? You've been long enough to know how this works. 

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20 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I'd be curious to hear the argument for Doc over Seaver. That's a bold take. 

 

Criteria of the person judging I guess. I'll take Pedro's three years over Maddux' twenty too. '85 in particular of Doc's run is just an absurd year that makes no sense and you can make a case for it being the greatest single season ever depending on how much you value sabremetrics. 

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Just now, RutgersJetFan said:

Criteria of the person judging I guess. I'll take Pedro's three years over Maddux' twenty too. '85 is just an absurd year that makes no sense and you can make a case for it being the greatest single season ever depending on how much you value sabremetrics. 

I hear ya. A few years of peak greatness > 15+ years of "pretty good" - I have made a similar argument with regards to Terrell Davis being one of the best running backs ever. 

I think Doc's reign of dominance simply wasn't long enough to trump what Seaver did, however. It's really sad that he got hooked on cocaine. He had all the makings of a varsity athlete. 

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

I hear ya. A few years of peak greatness > 15+ years of "pretty good" - I have made a similar argument with regards to Terrell Davis being one of the best running backs ever. 

I think Doc's reign of dominance simply wasn't long enough to trump what Seaver did, however. It's really sad that he got hooked on cocaine. He had all the makings of a varsity athlete. 

Seaver's career is all-time and several of his seasons are as well. But if you're asking any Met fan who they would take if they needed one guy for one game in October and they don't say '85 Doc they've lost it.

P.S. Terrell Davis is the man.

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5 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Criteria of the person judging I guess. I'll take Pedro's three years over Maddux' twenty too. '85 in particular of Doc's run is just an absurd year that makes no sense and you can make a case for it being the greatest single season ever depending on how much you value sabremetrics. 

Doc's '85 season was one of the most dominant single season performances of all time, maybe only topped by Pedro's 2000 season, and maybe a couple others - Maddux in '95. Bob Gibson probably is up there in '68

Seaver never had a single season like Doc's 1985 (although his '71 season was pretty dominant) but judged over the entirety of their Mets careers, Tom has the edge in wins, strikeouts, innings pitched, shutouts, complete games... pretty much everything but winning pct where Doc has the edge .649 to .615.  Both won rookie of the year, Seaver won 16 games his rookie season, Doc won 17. Seaver had 3 Cy Young awards to Docs 1.  Sadly, both threw no-no's for teams other than the Mets.

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4 minutes ago, BeaconJet said:

Doc's '85 season was one of the most dominant single season performances of all time, maybe only topped by Pedro's 2000 season, and maybe a couple others - Maddux in '95. Bob Gibson probably is up there in '68

Seaver never had a single season like Doc's 1985 (although his '71 season was pretty dominant) but judged over the entirety of their Mets careers, Tom has the edge in wins, strikeouts, innings pitched, shutouts, complete games... pretty much everything but winning pct where Doc has the edge .649 to .615.  Both won rookie of the year, Seaver won 16 games his rookie season, Doc won 17. Seaver had 3 Cy Young awards to Docs 1.  Sadly, both threw no-no's for teams other than the Mets.

Depends on what you value. Sabre says Doc's '85 crushes all of these. Since the turn of the previous century (which is weird to type), only two pitchers have topped his WAR from that year, Walter Johnson and Cy Young. But worth noting Pedro's 2000 got knocked down a few because of missed games, so that's worth pointing out, otherwise he likely cracks it and the fact that it happened in the heart of the steroid era counts for a lot.

Steve Carlton's 1972 season is criminally underrated and it would be in my top 3-4 IMHO. 

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2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Come on bud. Don't bring that here. You really want me to tell you that using your logic, you'd take Brad Johnson over Dan Marino? You've been long enough to know how this works. 

I understand of course but don't discount it totally....    20 years in the league and very few playoff appearances. He isn't Fitzmagic but a lot of analysts use WS as a partial barometer.

When Greg Norman was struggling , having not won a major, he was #1 in the world for over a year and was asked about his lack of a major. He said.. "Lots of great golfers never win a major".

Reporter responded.. "Name One".  Of course he couldn't.

This same stat will dog Lundquist, also great.

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2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

It’s not.

Quick google of lists, I found NONE that had Gooden in front of Seaver.  I didn't look very long.  Seaver may be the greatest NY pitcher of all time and I am a Yankee fan.  He was an ambassador of the game on and off the field. Loved the guy. Hated that he got his 300th in that ugly Chisox uni.

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