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March 31 Article ranking head coaches has Todd Bowles at #18 and Robert Saleh at #27. Another article had Saleh at #32


Alka
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I get that Saleh hasn't proven anything yet as a head coach,  but he's at least proven to me that he has worked well with Joe Douglas, and that is a big positive.

Saleh got hired by the Jets in part due to the fact that he was a very good defensive coordinator for the 49ers, and liked and respected by his players.  Todd Bowles has acquired the same reputation as Saleh in that regard.  Bowles was a failure with the Jets, and to be fair, Saleh didn't do any better than Bowles did in the first year. Saleh is a fiery guy with lots of energy, and Bowles is more quiet and reserved. 

The only difference coming into this year for both head coaches is the level of talent on the two teams.  Bowles has Tom Brady, and Saleh has Zach.

So, after looking at both head coaches, I don't understand how there is a separation of 10 or more slots between them.  In my mind, Bowles deserves to be lower, and Saleh deserves to be higher.  Maybe they both need to be in the low 20's in my opinion.  

Ranking Saleh at #32, which was done before the draft in this one article, I feel is ridiculous. Saleh had terrible low talent last year, and that alone should not place him at the bottom.  Head coaches with more talent who underperformed should be at the bottom of the list.  What do you think?

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3 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Where's Adam Gase on this list?

Asking for a friend.

Current head coaches are only on this list.  Bowles is the current head coach of the Bucs, even though he hasn't yet coached a single game as the head coach yet.

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5 minutes ago, Alka said:

Current head coaches are only on this list.  Bowles is the current head coach of the Bucs, even though he hasn't yet coached a single game as the head coach yet.

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Bowles has shown that he can win with a talented team (10-6 with the Jets in 2015) and he has a pretty stacked team now.  All Saleh’s only season on the books as a head coach showed was that he couldn’t win with a team that was extremely young and lacked talent.  There are plenty of valid reasons why his team struggled last year, and I believe that he will grow into a good coach, but I can’t blame people who have more of a “show me” attitude instead of going on blind faith.

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Of course they have Saleh ranked #32 he coaches the Jets and everyone knows their is noooo bias against this team. These polls are just ridiculous especially when you have a coach like Mike Ruhle who’s done such a great job walking the sidelines. The anti Jets bias is so strong and obvious Urban “lap dance “ Meyer would be ranked higher if he were still employed 

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Don’t think he deserves 32 but at the same time he hasn’t proven anything so where do you want them to put him? His first season he was 4-13 with the worst defense in the league. 
 

Hard to really criticize people doing these rankings. 

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20 hours ago, Alka said:

I get that Saleh hasn't proven anything yet as a head coach

Sure he has:

  • He proved he can produce the worst Defense in Franchise history.
  • He proved he can take a highly touted QB prospect and have him be the worst starting QB in the NFL as a rookie, leading the 28th ranked Offense.
  • He proved his team is no more in-shape or durable/healthy than any recent previous Jets team.
  • He proved he can win 4 games out of 17.

That is why is is ranked poorly at current.  That is what his resume as a Head Coach is so far.

The only way that will change is when the results change.  Not before they change.

And no, "he can work with Joe Douglas" isn't going to get him ranked higher, lol.  Seriously.:lol:

Quote

What do you think?

I think overly sensitive, easily triggered fans should probably step back, relax, and wait to see what Saleh and Zach and Co. do this coming season, rather than get worked up over a bad team that played badly being badly ranked in the offseason. :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I think overly sensitive, easily triggered fans should probably step back, relax, and wait to see what Saleh and Zach and Co. do this coming season, rather than get worked up over a bad team that played badly being badly ranked in the offseason.

LOL. I certainly am not over sensitive.  I think you make a good argument for Saleh's ranking as head coach.  I guess that after living through all the sh*tty head coaches of the Jets in my lifetime, I am a little sensitive of Saleh being ranked dead last in the NFL, where he needs to prove that he is as sh*tty as the prior head coaches who really did deserve the be at the bottom of the barrel.  Or, hopefully prove he is much better than that.

My argument is "How can you rank a head coach as worst in the NFL, if they haven't had the chance to prove it?  I get that Saleh did the worst with the worst to work with, but in my mind, you can't be the worst if you have the worst roster in the NFL.  Ranking him #32 with the #32 roster in the NFL is mindless.  Just give the guy the chance to prove it one way or another.  

This year we will learn so much about this team, the head coach, the GM, and the scouts that comprise this team.

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21 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Bowles is proven trash. 

 

The jury is still out on Saleh.

 

Bucs HC is really Arians in the office and Brady on the field. 

Bowles got the shaft here. Maccagnan was beyond terrible and should’ve been fired first (or simultaneously). I can definitely see Bowles being a good head coach. He’ll be no worse than Barry Switzer coaching Brady. 
 
I have no concerns about these rankings with Saleh. Either he’s gonna be good or he’s not. Last year was a 20 game exhibition season. Impossible to judge him on that, although obviously someone felt the need to. 

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Saleh hasn't proven anything yet. Bowles at least has some experience as coach to evaluate. He had an alright team in 2015 and almost hit the playoffs. With Brady and a very good supporting cast he's probably going to have a respectable season. 

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On 6/5/2022 at 1:27 PM, MykePM said:

Bowles has shown that he can win with a talented team (10-6 with the Jets in 2015) and he has a pretty stacked team now.  All Saleh’s only season on the books as a head coach showed was that he couldn’t win with a team that was extremely young and lacked talent.  There are plenty of valid reasons why his team struggled last year, and I believe that he will grow into a good coach, but I can’t blame people who have more of a “show me” attitude instead of going on blind faith.

Bowles also has shown, with that talented team, that he can make a boneheaded decision to lose that last game of the season vs the Bills. Causing the JETS to miss the playoffs by sitting Chris Ivory…..complete moronic decision. Bowles had plenty of blunders from the sideline.

From a coaching standpoint Bowles has the "luck" to have Brady this year and until Brady falls off Bowles will get credit he probably doesn't deserve. 

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LOL - if the Jets and the Bucs switched teams, Bowles would be at the bottom and Salleh would be in the. middle for three reasons:

1. The media by and large hate the Jets

2. Nothing makes a coach look better than a stacked team in a weak division (no QBs or proven FOs)

3. The only thing that makes a coach look better than #2 is a HOF QB.

When Bowles was with the Jets media talked about how he sucked; now he is a genius. - gotta love it.

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3 hours ago, Alka said:

LOL. I certainly am not over sensitive.  I think you make a good argument for Saleh's ranking as head coach.  I guess that after living through all the sh*tty head coaches of the Jets in my lifetime, I am a little sensitive of Saleh being ranked dead last in the NFL, where he needs to prove that he is as sh*tty as the prior head coaches who really did deserve the be at the bottom of the barrel.  Or, hopefully prove he is much better than that.

I'll be honest, I couldn't possibly care less where we get "ranked" in offseason media articles or website listicles.

Really, there is almost nothing less important to me.  I only comment because of how incredibly sensitive and easily triggered my fellow Jets Fans seem to be about such things.

Tell me something, does Saleh being #32 or whatever on this list in any way effect Saleh and how he'll coach in 2022?  

Will Saleh being #32 cause us to lose an extra game?

No?  Then why on earth does it matter to you in any way?

Saleh and Co. produced a VERY low quality product in 2021.  That is an objective fact that no amount of pollyanna'ish fanaticism will change.

But no one, including us, know what he'll produce in 2022.  If you believe in him, then criticism for year 1 should be irrelevant.  Because you think he'll be good this year, right?

Here is what I think tho, I think many of our posters SAY they have faith in X or Y (Zach, or Saleh) but they really don't, and they're utterly terrified that Saleh and Zach and whomever will suck in 2022 just as badly as they did in 2021, and so ranking (to them) matter, because they desperately need a proverbial reinforcement from others that Saleh and Zach won't, in fact, suck again.

It's the same reason we often see the biggest up-talkers about a player also post a parade of pre-emptive excuses for why beloved elite special amazing player X......may only win 5 games, or only throw for 2,800 yards in 2022, lol.

3 hours ago, Alka said:

My argument is "How can you rank a head coach as worst in the NFL, if they haven't had the chance to prove it?  I get that Saleh did the worst with the worst to work with, but in my mind, you can't be the worst if you have the worst roster in the NFL.

Sure you can.  And he didn't have the worst to work with, that's yet more Jets Fan rationalization and excuse-making.  It's the "we had the most drops in history" argument again, except nope, we weren't even #1 in drops in 2021, much less in history.

Saleh and Co. had an enitre season to judge, and since that's all they have so far, that's what they get Judged on.

Be assured, had Saleh in year one gone 11-6 and won a few playoff games, NO ONE here would be saying "well, there really isn't enough to judge on, Saleh shouldn't be ranked #10 overall surely".

3 hours ago, Alka said:

Just give the guy the chance to prove it one way or another.  

Ask yourself this:  

1. Does this ranking stop Saleh from "proving himself one way or the other" in 2022?

2. When doing a ranking, do you think any Coach with less than say, 3 full seasons Coached, should get what, an "Incomplete"?  That would be a very boring (and inaccurate) list methodology.  Would that make you feel better, Saleh at the end of the list with an "I" grade?

3 hours ago, Alka said:

This year we will learn so much about this team, the head coach, the GM, and the scouts that comprise this team.

Yes we will.

And this ranking does absolutely nothing to change that fact or influence the outcome in any way whatsoever.

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Saleh was awful last year.  Hopefully he is much better with a year under his belt.  Bowles wasn't a good HC.  He was miles better than Saleh.    Saleh, like Zach needs to take a huge step this year.   

Lefleur at least decided he wasn't comfortable in the deep end of the pool and got himself in the shallow end and worked his way out.   Saleh and the D drowned.  

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34 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Sure you can.  And he didn't have the worst to work with, that's yet more Jets Fan rationalization and excuse-making.  It's the "we had the most drops in history" argument again, except nope, we weren't even #1 in drops in 2021, much less in history.

So which head coaches had less talent to work with than Saleh, and more relevantly, which coaches had less talent to work with and finished with a better record than the Jets?

 

35 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Saleh and Co. had an enitre season to judge, and since that's all they have so far, that's what they get Judged on.

Be assured, had Saleh in year one gone 11-6 and won a few playoff games, NO ONE here would be saying "well, there really isn't enough to judge on, Saleh shouldn't be ranked #10 overall surely".

Of course not.  If Saleh had delivered an 11-6 record with the talent level and injury impact the team had last year, it would have been an amazing coaching performance and he would almost have been guaranteed to win Coach of the Year honors.  And I'm sure there would still be some people saying things like "Great first year, but I'd like to see him do it again to prove that it wasn't a fluke."

For me, the measure of a coach's performance is how well their team performs compared to their talent level (which I understand is all very subjective).  Otherwise, if you go by results alone, a head coach ranking list would just be ordered by team wins, from highest to lowest.

Saleh had a crappy roster (particularly once injuries hit), and the team only won 4 games - which is about what you'd expect.  All that tells me is that Saleh didn't have an above-average coaching year because he wasn't able to transcend the skill on his roster.  This year, the talent will be significantly higher, so win total expectations should be raised accordingly.

In my opinion, the lowest-ranked coaches on a list should be the ones who teams underperformed based on the talent that they had.  For the 2021 season, the Panthers, Browns, and Colts come to mind.  I wouldn't rank Saleh last, because expectations shouldn't have been much higher than what he delivered.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Ask yourself this:  

1. Does this ranking stop Saleh from "proving himself one way or the other" in 2022?

 

Forgive me for saying this Warfish, "But what do you think the point of having any discussion on the Jets is right now?"  

It really doesn't matter what I say or what you say, but we are having a discussion based on other people's opinions.  "What is the point of this entire website right now?"  Again, this website and our discussions are for entertainment purposes.

I am an avid Jets fan, and I am entertained by having these types of discussions with other Jets fans, who love the team as much as I do.

Do you really think I am such a simpleton that what I say regarding the ranking of Sales means anything to anyone, with the exception of other Jets fans who might be interested in having a discussion on what an article says, keeping in mind that the author of that article gets paid for voicing their opinion in writing or on a talkshow.  "And what is the purpose of ESPN or other sports talk shows, other for entertainment purposes?"

We give each other what we hope is pertinent information about our team that we can discuss and debate.

The fact that you think that Saleh deserves to be at the bottom of the NFL list is an opinion that I respect,  but I disagree with.  If you really want to know what I think, I think that Saleh should be given an "incomplete", and given no ranking at all right now.  Bowles is #18?  Ridiculous!  He hasn't coached one game yet for the Bucs.  And if you go by his coaching tenure with the Jets, he certainly deserves to be lower than #18.

If you don't like my opinion, I can live with that.  I just don't agree with your opinion, that Saleh deserves to be the low man on the totem poll.

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7 minutes ago, Alka said:

Forgive me for saying this Warfish, "But what do you think the point of having any discussion on the Jets is right now?"

But we're not having a "dicussion about the Jets" here, are we?

We're having a discussion about some talking heads ranking of LAST YEAR'S Jets, Saleh specifically.

I'd love to talk about the 2022 Jets.  This thread isn't that.  

7 minutes ago, Alka said:

It really doesn't matter what I say or what you say, but we are having a discussion based on other people's opinions.  "What is the point of this entire website right now?"  Again, this website and our discussions are for entertainment purposes.

Let me ask you an honest question:  Are you being entertained being angry because some random talking head ranked Saleh 32nd?

7 minutes ago, Alka said:

The fact that you think that Saleh deserves to be at the bottom of the NFL list is an opinion that I respect,  but I disagree with.  If you really want to know what I think, I think that Saleh should be given an "incomplete", and given no ranking at all right now.

Again, if Saleh had won 11 games, and was ranked 10th, you;re most certainly not poo poo'ing that here, now, are you, be honest. 

You want an incomplete because he was among the worst.  I could easily see Jets Fans in 2023 saying "well, it's only two years, you can't really rank Saleh yet".  Or three years even, lord knows we've heard people say that here before.

Respectfully, that's now how rankings work.  Rankings are here, now, based on what happened/what we know as of now.  No one does ranking with incompletes, that's a cop out.

7 minutes ago, Alka said:

Bowles is #18?  Ridiculous!  He hasn't coached one game yet for the Bucs.  And if you go by his coaching tenure with the Jets, he certainly deserves to be lower than #18.

I have no disagreement re: Bowles, he was trash here mostly.

7 minutes ago, Alka said:

If you don't like my opinion, I can live with that.  I just don't agree with your opinion, that Saleh deserves to be the low man on the totem poll.

Then argue it on merit, not on "he only had one season".  That's enough to rank, and it's all any ranker has to rank.

Again, no one gets incompletes.  Hell, most ranking type articles still rank people who haven't even coaches a game yet!  Lol, so much over so little.  But if it makes you happy to get all bothered, be my guest.  I'll drop out and leave you to it.

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7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

But if it makes you happy to get all bothered, be my guest.  I'll drop out and leave you to it.

I am entertained by you.  I have very thick skin.  And I'm glad that you are part of the group here.  It's all good.  If you want to know what makes my blood pressure go up, it's being in a small elevator with no air conditioning on a very hot day, praying that I don't get stuck.

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17 minutes ago, Alka said:

I am entertained by you.

Then my work here is worthwhile. :D

17 minutes ago, Alka said:

If you want to know what makes my blood pressure go up, it's being in a small elevator with no air conditioning on a very hot day, praying that I don't get stuck.

+1

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An unproven coach should rank higher than a coach who failed in his previous gig.  Bowles failed as coach of the Jets.  He was awful.  And his teams had far more talent than the 2021 Jets.  If Bowles was that wonderful, why didn't the Jets hire him back in 2021????  I wonder where Bowles would rank if he was coaching Tampa in 2022 without Brady as the QB?

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