PGA Tour vs. LIV

[JustInFudge]

I know there a few golfers/fans out there, curious if anyone is following this battle w/ the Saudi league?  For a typically bland sport, I find it to be great drama.

I love the PGA Tour, the pageantry and history.  Major championships are some of my very favorite sporting events.  Attending the Master is an experience like no other for any passionate golfer.  I'm curious, how does LIV impact the field moving forward?  So far the only real name of significance is Dustin Johnson but he's +40 and not really a consistent contender anymore.  The Euro's who joined dont pose a threat; Poulter, Westwood, Garcia.  Kevin Na isnt a real contender.  But I'm hearing Bryson DeChambeau and Patrick Reed are committing and that is a pretty interesting.  Both polarizing figures who actually do bring intrigue to the Tour but also, they're huge advantages when it comes to President and Ryder Cup matches....and to a lesser extend Rickie Fowler could be joining.  While he's fell off, he's started to make a comeback lately but he's one of the more known and marketed golfers on the tour.  I wonder what their sponsors will do?

Might just be talking to myself but curious if anyone else is following? 

 

[32EBoozer]

This is the first real challenge to the PHA Tour’s monopoly. I don’t know what to think. Like you I love watching the Major Championships. It’s all a money grab by some marginal players and a few real draws on the PGA tour like DJ, Phil and Ricky. These Saudis can’t spend our gas money fast enough. Thanks Joe

[Fantasy Island]

I heard they made Tiger a high 9 figure offer to join the LIV.  He turned it down.

 

[Jet9]

It's WWE vs AEW but Tony Kahn doesn't stone you to death.

[JustInFudge]

15 hours ago, Jet9 said:

It's WWE vs AEW but Tony Kahn doesn't stone you to death.

Haha it sounds like they're going to let them play in the US Open but that's a different beast, not sure what it will mean for the other majors but yeah, it's definitely an interesting situation and the PGA has handled it horribly.

 

[Stark]

Was talking about this today... until Bryson said he was going there wasn't much for the PGA to really worry about as you mentioned in your 1st post. Bryson while either loved or hated does have an impact. 

Depending on how some of the PGA players that are middle of pack guys could be compensated by the LIV it could make things get real interesting. Especially from a financial impact to those guys who can't seem to break into that top 8-10 finish. Looking at the LIV fields they could have a shot to do that there.

did I read/hear correctly that the PGA is not going to accept players exemptions also? I do think the PGA handling of this has been sh!tty also. 

[Jet9]

This actually does have other similarities to pro wrestling. In nearly every wrestling company you can wrestle wherever else you want as long as it doesn't mess with your main employer. They're classified as independent contractors. Now over in WWE you certainly cannot wrestle in other promotions and basically everything you do and say is scripted. How is that an independent contractor? An AEW wrestler and an IMPACT wrestler came to my local Indy promotion a couple months ago. WWE would never let that happen. PGA is calling the golfers independent contractors and then suspending them when they practice as one. **** KSA but PGA looks dumb here. 

[Stark]

Take “PGA Tour” and “LIV golf” out of the headline, all you’ll have is simply, employees leaving one organization to go to another for more money and/or different opportunities. It happens every day in every business across the globe.

I don't know enough of the details about the deals DJ and the guys are agreeing to or signing with LIV... but its not like they lost their ability to earn their membership to the PGA back if they chose to in the future. If LIV tanks they could move back. 

 

 

[Jet9]

Some of you race fans might be able to help, but wasn't there something similar to this with CART and IRL a ways back?

[Irish Jet]

On 6/9/2022 at 4:55 PM, Stark said:

Take “PGA Tour” and “LIV golf” out of the headline, all you’ll have is simply, employees leaving one organization to go to another for more money and/or different opportunities. It happens every day in every business across the globe.

True but it's pretty concerning how prevalent the money of regimes with horrific human rights record are turning professional sports into their own personal PR projects. 

Soccer is now pretty much an arms race for state backed clubs - PSG, City and Newcastle have essentially unlimited funds. Some of the biggest boxing events are now taking place in Saudi Arabia with it being the preferred destination of Eddie Hearn's mafia in particular. 

It's Sportswashing - Plain and simple. And it's being normalised on a massive scale because everyone's making money. 

[Panzer Division Marduk]

9 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Some of the biggest boxing events are now taking place in Saudi Arabia with it being the preferred destination of Eddie Hearn's mafia in particular. 

 

I'm surprised Hearn wasn't banned from the US like so many others because of the links to his murdering, drug dealing friend, Kinahan.

[JustInFudge]

On 6/9/2022 at 11:27 AM, Stark said:

Was talking about this today... until Bryson said he was going there wasn't much for the PGA to really worry about as you mentioned in your 1st post. Bryson while either loved or hated does have an impact. 

Depending on how some of the PGA players that are middle of pack guys could be compensated by the LIV it could make things get real interesting. Especially from a financial impact to those guys who can't seem to break into that top 8-10 finish. Looking at the LIV fields they could have a shot to do that there.

did I read/hear correctly that the PGA is not going to accept players exemptions also? I do think the PGA handling of this has been sh!tty also. 

Looks like Brooks Koepka is joining, that's probably the most significant name up to this point.  Reed and Bryson were polarizing players, not well liked on the tour, so it doesnt shock me they joined and the rest of the names are insignificant in golf at this point.  Brooks, being Mr. I only show up for Major Championship, joining is surprising but maybe not, he's clearly waving the white flag and he knows he's done.  He hit lightening in a bottle for a few years but his day is over and he's not dedicated or committed enough to the game to try to work his way back to the top.  He's just a lazy stupid meathead goober, so this isnt shocking.

I agree, the PGA is handling it poorly but that said, Monahan has been very clear about his process on this and players understand the decision they're making.

All that said, I still have absolutely zero interest in the LIV tour.  Like, I'll never watch a second of it.  The golfers arent competitive, their is no history, no legacy, nothing worth paying attention to at all. I'm sure it will be embraced by other countries, which is cool and all but I dont tune into the Greek league basketball because I have the NBA, ya feel me?

 

[JustInFudge]

On 6/9/2022 at 11:50 AM, Jet9 said:

This actually does have other similarities to pro wrestling. In nearly every wrestling company you can wrestle wherever else you want as long as it doesn't mess with your main employer. They're classified as independent contractors. Now over in WWE you certainly cannot wrestle in other promotions and basically everything you do and say is scripted. How is that an independent contractor? An AEW wrestler and an IMPACT wrestler came to my local Indy promotion a couple months ago. WWE would never let that happen. PGA is calling the golfers independent contractors and then suspending them when they practice as one. **** KSA but PGA looks dumb here. 

I agree the PGA looks dumb here and I dont know what these players contracts read but what Monahan is saying, is that they're in clear violation of their agreement and it seems the players who are not interested in joining, appreciate Monahan's response.

[JustInFudge]

On 6/9/2022 at 11:55 AM, Stark said:

Take “PGA Tour” and “LIV golf” out of the headline, all you’ll have is simply, employees leaving one organization to go to another for more money and/or different opportunities. It happens every day in every business across the globe.

I don't know enough of the details about the deals DJ and the guys are agreeing to or signing with LIV... but its not like they lost their ability to earn their membership to the PGA back if they chose to in the future. If LIV tanks they could move back. 

 

 

Good point, I think this a little more high profile than your normal switch of a job and naturally, the mortality of the people running the league,  factors into why it's news worthy.

[JustInFudge]

On 6/9/2022 at 11:55 AM, Stark said:

Take “PGA Tour” and “LIV golf” out of the headline, all you’ll have is simply, employees leaving one organization to go to another for more money and/or different opportunities. It happens every day in every business across the globe.

I don't know enough of the details about the deals DJ and the guys are agreeing to or signing with LIV... but its not like they lost their ability to earn their membership to the PGA back if they chose to in the future. If LIV tanks they could move back. 

 

 

Did you see Brent Snedeker's take on this?  He passionately said he hopes the PGA Tour does NOT let players back in.  He said thats insulting.  They made a decision to go play meaningless golf and take an empty pay check and the PGA should not be a fall back safe landing place for them, this is where the greatest golfers in the world work their asses off to get on the tour because they want to play at the highest level and face the toughest competition and leave a legacy on the game by hopefully having their name carved into one of these trophies.  

Hearing him say it, thinking about it further, knowing how hard it is to get a card/keep the card, I think I'm with Snedeker.  I've been indifferent but I could totally see any tour member taking that type of stance on this situation.  You know Rory and JT would take that angle. 

[Stark]

30 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Did you see Brent Snedeker's take on this?  He passionately said he hopes the PGA Tour does NOT let players back in.  He said thats insulting.  They made a decision to go play meaningless golf and take an empty pay check and the PGA should be a fall back safe landing place for them, this is where the greatest golfers in the world work their asses off to get on the tour because they want to play at the highest level and face the toughest competition and leave a legacy on the game by hopefully having their name carved into one of these trophies.  

Hearing him say it, thinking about it further, knowing how hard it is to get a card/keep the card, I think I'm with Snedeker.  I've been indifferent but I could totally see any tour member taking that type of stance on this situation.  You know Rory and JT would take that angle. 

Probably so and I  don't really have a strong opinion, but I don't think the PGA Tour should "blackball" a guy for leaving and then if he decided to earn his way back prevent him from doing so.

 

Im with you I probably won't watch any LIV, and I really only tune into majors anymore unless the wife and kids are out of the house and I get the opportunity. 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Stark said:

Probably so and I  don't really have a strong opinion, but I don't think the PGA Tour should "blackball" a guy for leaving and then if he decided to earn his way back prevent him from doing so.

 

Im with you I probably won't watch any LIV, and I really only tune into majors anymore unless the wife and kids are out of the house and I get the opportunity. 

Earn their way back on could dig, but just allowing them back in if they dont like it or it fails?  I think Snedeker just changed my thoughts on that, at least for now.

 

[TuscanyTile2]

I'm not really much of a golf fan but even I find this story very interesting.  I think because I could see LIV actually succeeding.

[JustInFudge]

This is getting juicy....

Players suing.

Leaked Texts between Sergio and Norman.

Monohan putting his foot down.

I love it.

[Jet9]

Better be careful it doesn't go the way of open wheel in America. People will still play golf, obviously. Giving a sh*t what promotion is on TV is another. 

[JustInFudge]

19 hours ago, Jet9 said:

Better be careful it doesn't go the way of open wheel in America. People will still play golf, obviously. Giving a sh*t what promotion is on TV is another. 

I think the PGA will still thrive simply because of the Fed-Ex series and all the history of the majors.  It also looks like Tiger is set to start taking on a Jack type role in endorsing the PGA more vocally and being more present in it's evolution.  His strength and loyalty I think will have a huge influence long term but also, the major series and the pageantry involved will always keep the pre-covid golf enthusiast still engaged.  I think LIV can provide a venue for newer players who maybe dont appreciate the personality of golf and certainly the attitude the tour takes on vs. LIV being just a party like atmosphere.  Ultimately, the set up is goofy AF, noncompetitive and there isnt an end goal.  It's exhibition golf.  Stenson is suddenly "winning" and some of these dudes are basically playing like an amateur.  It's a laughable format which I think ultimately does them in and it looks like the players are realize it and regretting their decisions.