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OTA updates 6/9


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20 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Good thing nobody is saying that.

That's exactly what you did. You said it was discouraging that Wilson had not taken a massive leap after two days of OTAs in shorts in JUNE!  You are judging the kid on every pass, as described in tweets from moronic beat writers watching practices, in shorts, in June.  That is the epitome of overreaction.  

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13 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The Colts have done a great job of developing young players who have had huge impacts as rookies.  That has a ton to do with the coaching staff.   They have built a competent roster through more than drafting.  It's player development and coaching.

Okay...? That doesn't conflict with anything I said. Clearly any well run org have the GM and HC in lockstep, complimenting each other's progress.

They've built a good program there, outside of the QB. If Douglas and Saleh look like they're doing the same thing Ballard and Reich are doing they should be given more time. Their fates shouldn't be tied to a whiff on Zach Wilson, should that prove to be the case.

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2 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

That's exactly what you did. You said it was discouraging that Wilson had not taken a massive leap after two days of OTAs in shorts in JUNE!  You are judging the kid on every pass, as described in tweets from moronic beat writers watching practices, in shorts, in June.  That is the epitome of overreaction.  

No it's not what I did. It is discouraging that the initial reports from OTAs aren't that he looks awesome and is night and day from last year. I don't know why any Jets fan would think early reports of INTs and inconsistent accuracy in 11 on 11 was a good thing.

It's not the end of the world. I'm not writing him off. But again -- for him to be good he needs to make a massive leap. Early reports don't indicate he's made a massive improvement which is what I was hoping for.

Some are fine kicking the can down the road and making excuses -- because that worked out so well with Sanchez and Darnold. I'm just taking in new information and offering feedback on it... Because really, if you aren't interested in discussing OTA performance, why are you on this board in June in a thread about OTAs?

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2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Okay...? That doesn't conflict with anything I said. Clearly any well run org have the GM and HC in lockstep, complimenting each other's progress.

They've built a good program there, outside of the QB. If Douglas and Saleh look like they're doing the same thing Ballard and Reich are doing they should be given more time. Their fates shouldn't be tied to a whiff on Zach Wilson, should that prove to be the case.

Don't get defensive.  I'm just pointing out that the roster needs more than talent before you can plug a QB in and compete.  It needs very competent coaching.  Something that is not obvious yet to me.  

From my POV Douglas is showing high competence as a GM.  Saleh to date hasn't.   Reich clearly is a competent HC.  

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Just now, Biggs said:

Don't get defensive.  I'm just pointing out that the roster needs more than talent before you can plug a QB in and compete.  It needs very competent coaching.  Something that is not obvious yet to me.  

From my POV Douglas is showing high competence as a GM.  Saleh to date hasn't.   Reich clearly is a competent HC.  

I agree with all of that. The verdict is very much out on Saleh -- and frankly, I think Douglas is "tied" to Saleh more than he is to Wilson.

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19 hours ago, ZachEY said:

In general, do more people get fired for continuing to make the same bad decision or for moving on from a bad decision?

it's all a moot point anyway as the most likely outcome is they will give ZW the "Sanchize" extension i.e. paying a player who doesn't deserve it for marketing and "hope" reasons 

historically, the rare time Woody finds the bag it's to pay a mediocre photogenic QB

 

 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

it's all a moot point anyway as the most likely outcome is they will give ZW the "Sanchize" extension i.e. paying a player who doesn't deserve it for marketing and "hope" reasons 

historically, the rare time Woody finds the bag it's to pay a mediocre photogenic QB

 

 

Are you mad that we didn't give Brooks Bollinger a chance still?

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2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Are you mad that we didn't give Brooks Bollinger a chance still?

Brooks Bollinger was terrible. Maybe you're thinking of Brett Ratliff. 

if my rants have a point it's that expectations are too damn high. This is still a garbagey team and they will be until they prove otherwise

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25 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Brooks Bollinger was terrible. Maybe you're thinking of Brett Ratliff. 

if my rants have a point it's that expectations are too damn high. This is still a garbagey team and they will be until they prove otherwise

Cool man, thanks for your input 👍🏻

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42 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's all a moot point anyway as the most likely outcome is they will give ZW the "Sanchize" extension i.e. paying a player who doesn't deserve it for marketing and "hope" reasons 

historically, the rare time Woody finds the bag it's to pay a mediocre photogenic QB

 

 

What makes you think they would do that? What, in the time JD has been here, makes you think he will give a contract for marketing reasons? 

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7 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

What makes you think they would do that? What, in the time JD has been here, makes you think he will give a contract for marketing reasons? 

The way teams handle the mid level QB’s has changed in recent years as well. Wentz and Goff extension mistakes have led to stuff like the Browns not extending Baker.

I’m really curious to see if a mid level QB market emerges since the Mayfield, Cousins, Garoppolo, Goff level guys have some degree of value but it’s an obvious mistake to pay them at that top tier. The guys at that level who are willing to take a two or three year deal for something in the $20 millions annually will make decent coin, get to start with a little continuity, and at least have a chance to emerge in that upper tier instead of going year to year as a stopgap.

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25 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

What makes you think they would do that? What, in the time JD has been here, makes you think he will give a contract for marketing reasons? 

usually that's correct but these aren't his guys 

JD is not BB able to just piss away draft picks because it's a 20 year program.  WE all seem to forget JD and Saleh are first timers too and Woody can look for a new GM easier than the Jets can look for a new FQB.

imagine if Woody decides he wants to pay someone who's actually been a GM or HC before? all these guys could be shipped out on a whim

usually it happens about every 6 years like the mattress wars from Godfather it gets the bad blood out 

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13 minutes ago, derp said:

The way teams handle the mid level QB’s has changed in recent years as well. Wentz and Goff extension mistakes have led to stuff like the Browns not extending Baker.

I’m really curious to see if a mid level QB market emerges since the Mayfield, Cousins, Garoppolo, Goff level guys have some degree of value but it’s an obvious mistake to pay them at that top tier. The guys at that level who are willing to take a two or three year deal for something in the $20 millions annually will make decent coin, get to start with a little continuity, and at least have a chance to emerge in that upper tier instead of going year to year as a stopgap.

I'd honestly be all for signing Jimmy G. Cut Flacco. And if Wilson and the team are struggling by the middle of the season, make the switch. Seems like a no brainer system wise with Lefluer already working with him. Give yourself a chance to see what the rest of the team can be. 

 

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16 hours ago, bitonti said:

By the standards of drafted punters, Mann sucks

His 2020 draft is basically worthless 

I did forget about Michael Carter tho. 

It's still not enough to overlook a ZW bust 

I'll say it again if Zach busts they aren't going to let jd pick another franchise qb 

Why would they? Because he did such a great job evaluating James Morgan and Zach?

 

None of the Zach haters want to hear this but Zach showed enough last year that combined with his elite traits makes being a bust FAR FAR less likely than making a huge jump

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4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

usually that's correct but these aren't his guys 

JD is not BB able to just piss away draft picks because it's a 20 year program.  WE all seem to forget JD and Saleh are first timers too and Woody can look for a new GM easier than the Jets can look for a new FQB.

imagine if Woody decides he wants to pay someone who's actually been a GM or HC before? all these guys could be shipped out on a whim

usually it happens about every 6 years like the mattress wars from Godfather it gets the bad blood out 

Alright, that doesn't really answer the question but k...

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10 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I'd honestly be all for signing Jimmy G. Cut Flacco. And if Wilson and the team are struggling by the middle of the season, make the switch. Seems like a no brainer system wise with Lefluer already working with him. Give yourself a chance to see what the rest of the team can be. 

 

First of all, cutting Jimmy G is idiotic unless they think he will not be healthy well into 2022. And no, you do not yank your 2nd year #2 pick QB by the "middle of the season" especially since the early part of our season is entirely front loaded with almost every hard game we have, and we will start like 9 new rookies and FAs at least and they will not come together instantly.

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6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

First of all, cutting Jimmy G is idiotic unless they think he will not be healthy well into 2022. And no, you do not yank your 2nd year #2 pick QB by the "middle of the season" especially since the early part of our season is entirely front loaded with almost every hard game we have, and we will start like 9 new rookies and FAs at least and they will not come together instantly.

You think it is idiotic to move on from your backup QB and save $24M? 

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23 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I'd honestly be all for signing Jimmy G. Cut Flacco. And if Wilson and the team are struggling by the middle of the season, make the switch. Seems like a no brainer system wise with Lefluer already working with him. Give yourself a chance to see what the rest of the team can be. 

 

Jimmy G isnt going anywhere to be a backup.  He immediately starts in Seattle or Carolina.

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1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

... or Atlanta or Pittsburgh or Houston or Detroit or ...

I dont see him at any of these places.  Houston is fine with Mills.  He was actually the 2nd best qb out of all the rookies last year,  They love Goff in Det and him and Jimmy G are similiar talent wise.  Pitt has a 1st round pick in Pickett in the bullpen with Tribisky to mentor him and Atlanta has Marriota who is close with the head coach and getting a shot there.

Its Seattle or Carolina for him.

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

First of all, cutting Jimmy G is idiotic unless they think he will not be healthy well into 2022. And no, you do not yank your 2nd year #2 pick QB by the "middle of the season" especially since the early part of our season is entirely front loaded with almost every hard game we have, and we will start like 9 new rookies and FAs at least and they will not come together instantly.

You’d wanna stick with him after like 6-7 games and his stats are 4TDs and 9INTs? And say 2-6 record? 

I mean sure I guess you could, doubt he’s bouncing back and throwing a 20-1 ratio. 

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2 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I'd honestly be all for signing Jimmy G. Cut Flacco. And if Wilson and the team are struggling by the middle of the season, make the switch. Seems like a no brainer system wise with Lefluer already working with him. Give yourself a chance to see what the rest of the team can be. 

 

Saleh would cut Zach Wilson (and Mike White) before even considering cutting Flacco.

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Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

Saleh would cut Zach Wilson (and Mike White) before even considering cutting Flacco.

joe flacco is an absolute waste of space at this point in his career

he's the "mark brunnell" mentor

 if the jets have to play this player they are boned 

 

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26 minutes ago, bitonti said:

What exactly are his elite traits? 

he's not elite tall, he's not elite fast. He's not elite big. He's not elite durable.

He's not elite in any physical  measurable way 

elite accurate? Not at 55%

elite elusiveness? not holding the ball for 3 seconds an attempt (and 5 seconds per sack) 

What exactly is so elite about Zach Wilson? 

the only elite traits he has exhibited is elite excuse making from his fans and of course his uncle, who is literally one of the elites who run the world, like Woody.  

@Gastineau Lives Is on such a secret probation the Gallows had to disappear to hide it, so I’ll help while he’s on vacation.  
 

Zach Wilson has a lightning quick release and (this is for @JiFapono and @Jetsfan80 since it’s their favorite thing about Zach) he can make throws few in the NFL can.  
 

@Joe Willie White Shoes Do you think Zach Wilson might be good?  @Rhg1084 how about you?  @Joe W. Namath do you think Zach is the QB since his uncle used to be affiliated with a sponsor?  @Jet Nut any thoughts? @JTJet penny for your thoughts?  

 

I was going to tag more people, but one of those tags might actually be the intended person, so that’s a big enough win for the day.  Rest up @Gastineau Lives !!! 

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

What exactly are his elite traits? 

he's not elite tall, he's not elite fast. He's not elite big. He's not elite durable.

He's not elite in any physical  measurable way 

elite accurate? Not at 55%

elite elusiveness? not holding the ball for 3 seconds an attempt (and 5 seconds per sack) 

What exactly is so elite about Zach Wilson? 

the only elite traits he has exhibited is elite excuse making from his fans and of course his uncle, who is literally one of the elites who run the world, like Woody.  

His arm strength is elite (plus potentially his ability to use it "off platform").  

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1 hour ago, Hal N of Provo said:

@Gastineau Lives Is on such a secret probation the Gallows had to disappear to hide it, so I’ll help while he’s on vacation.  
 

Zach Wilson has a lightning quick release and (this is for @JiFapono and @Jetsfan80 since it’s their favorite thing about Zach) he can make throws few in the NFL can.  
 

@Joe Willie White Shoes Do you think Zach Wilson might be good?  @Rhg1084 how about you?  @Joe W. Namath do you think Zach is the QB since his uncle used to be affiliated with a sponsor?  @Jet Nut any thoughts? @JTJet penny for your thoughts?  

 

I was going to tag more people, but one of those tags might actually be the intended person, so that’s a big enough win for the day.  Rest up @Gastineau Lives !!! 

Wtf

I haven't even commented on this thread. What did I do?

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

What exactly are his elite traits? 

he's not elite tall, he's not elite fast. He's not elite big. He's not elite durable.

He's not elite in any physical  measurable way 

elite accurate? Not at 55%

elite elusiveness? not holding the ball for 3 seconds an attempt (and 5 seconds per sack) 

What exactly is so elite about Zach Wilson? 

the only elite traits he has exhibited is elite excuse making from his fans and of course his uncle, who is literally one of the elites who run the world, like Woody.  

The guy you are asking has stated that Wilson is the most talented QB he has ever seen in college (his words, not mine). 

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1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

His arm strength is elite (plus potentially his ability to use it "off platform").  

How many other QBs in the NFL would you say have elite arm strength? I'm not trying to argue, I'm just seeking to better understand your statement. 

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1 hour ago, maury77 said:

How many other QBs in the NFL would you say have elite arm strength? I'm not trying to argue, I'm just seeking to better understand your statement. 

Maybe like 5?  Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Aaron Rodgers come to mind.  Maybe I'm missing a few?  Though I think I get your point.  If there are like 10 QBs with "elite arm strength", that's 1/3 of the league (so how elite is that?)

I think some of it is being able to throw "off-platform" (e.g. on broken plays).  It was one reason I was thrilled when we first got Darnold, btw.  I'm in an odd position here defending Zach right now - lol.  I'm just saying I see the physical attributes that can make him really successful.  It certainly doesn't mean he will be great.  And it's possible he won't even be worthy of being a starting QB.

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I must say, as one of the biggest ZW fans on this board....

I must take accountability as it's clear now Z. Wilson is a bust.  These OTA's have shown me the following:

  1. He's not accurate nor will he ever will be
  2. His decision making skill set can't possibly be bette

Either way, let's get Jimmy G and win 10 games.

 

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