OTA updates 6/9

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

No it's not what I did. It is discouraging that the initial reports from OTAs aren't that he looks awesome and is night and day from last year. I don't know why any Jets fan would think early reports of INTs and inconsistent accuracy in 11 on 11 was a good thing.

It's not the end of the world. I'm not writing him off. But again -- for him to be good he needs to make a massive leap. Early reports don't indicate he's made a massive improvement which is what I was hoping for.

Some are fine kicking the can down the road and making excuses -- because that worked out so well with Sanchez and Darnold. I'm just taking in new information and offering feedback on it... Because really, if you aren't interested in discussing OTA performance, why are you on this board in June in a thread about OTAs?

You keep repeating yourself and then say you didn’t say it

it’s been 1 day out of how many? 
There’s football talk around OTAs beyond shltting yourself every time someone tweets an incompletion 

[Sammybighead]

31 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I must say, as one of the biggest ZW fans on this board....

I must take accountability as it's clear now Z. Wilson is a bust.  These OTA's have shown me the following:

1. He's not accurate nor will he ever will be
2. His decision making skill set can't possibly be bette

Either way, let's get Jimmy G and win 10 games.

 

Lol bailing after OTAs. 

I said it months ago, kid gets and deserves this full season before real judgement. Sit back and relax fellas, with the talent level around him, we'll actually know where we stand by season end, and that's a great feeling.

[FidelioJet]

10 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Lol bailing after OTAs. 

I said it months ago, kid gets and deserves this full season before real judgement. Sit back and relax fellas, with the talent level around him, we'll actually know where we stand by season end, and that's a great feeling.

Yup...

If he hasn't figured it out yet - he's done.  

Footwork is everything - at this point he should be better.

time to move on.  Jimmy G. can bed had for a 2.  Go get him and let's win 10 games.

[Sammybighead]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

Yup...

If he hasn't figured it out yet - he's done.  

Footwork is everything - at this point he should be better.

time to move on.  Jimmy G. can bed had for a 2.  Go get him and let's win 10 games.

What has he done in the past 5 months that could significantly impact his play? He did extra squats and hung out with berrios on the beach? 

He'll only get better when facing live bullets in real games. Wake me up at the end of next season. 

[Hal N of Provo]

6 hours ago, JTJet said:

Wtf

I haven't even commented on this thread. What did I do?

Not a call out post at all.  Just joking since @Gastineau Lives is out we need more people who say positive things about Zach engaged.  
 

It’s always nice try to explain jokes that flew like a lead balloon after the fact.   About halfway through I wish for the “do over - no joke” button.  

[Hal N of Provo]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Yup...

If he hasn't figured it out yet - he's done.  

Footwork is everything - at this point he should be better.

time to move on.  Jimmy G. can bed had for a 2.  Go get him and let's win 10 games.

So all the new players are going to hit?  And Zach sucks based on 25 tweets from the beat?!?

You went through all the arguments all last season to bail based on this?!? There were threads where you and I were the only positive people and we were getting slaughtered and you kept stepping up and into it anyway   

The beat is looking for clicks.  Zach’s reported stats are in the right range.  In college He’d have bad footwork because he was late on a couple passes again and he had a remarkable completion percentage with a dozen dimes a game.  He doesn’t need to be perfect.  
 

To be a FQB he needs in the neighborhood of 1/10 throws better per game and 2 more explosive plays per game.  He’s often not reading the defense fast enough yet, but when he does he’s already good.  

[FidelioJet]

6 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

So all the new players are going to hit?  And Zach sucks based on 25 tweets from the beat?!?

You went through all the arguments all last season to bail based on this?!? There were threads where you and I were the only positive people and we were getting slaughtered and you kept stepping up and into it anyway   

The beat is looking for clicks.  Zach’s reported stats are in the right range.  In college He’d have bad footwork because he was late on a couple passes again and he had a remarkable completion percentage with a dozen dimes a game.  He doesn’t need to be perfect.  
 

To be a FQB he needs in the neighborhood of 1/10 throws better per game and 2 more explosive plays per game.  He’s often not reading the defense fast enough yet, but when he does he’s already good.  

I think the biggest issue is I've heard is he's still indecisive.  That's a problem.  That was his biggest problem and if that hasn't gotten better his footwork and accuracy never will.

[Dunnie]

I think the biggest issue is I've heard is he's still indecisive.  That's a problem.  That was his biggest problem and if that hasn't gotten better his footwork and accuracy never will.

I've heard the opposite ... from our fearless leader of men Mr Softy Saleh.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[CSNY]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think the biggest issue is I've heard is he's still indecisive.  That's a problem.  That was his biggest problem and if that hasn't gotten better his footwork and accuracy never will.

  We Can’t base that Zach will be a bust based on what we collectively “have heard” or read some tweets from writers some of which have a distinct anti Jets bias

We Have to see with our own eyes to see if any  progress has been made

Also I do think we should get Garropolo if price is right and compensation is not to steep 

 

[FidelioJet]

44 minutes ago, CSNY said:

  We Can’t base that Zach will be a bust based on what we collectively “have heard” or read some tweets from writers some of which have a distinct anti Jets bias

We Have to see with our own eyes to see if any  progress has been made

Also I do think we should get Garropolo if price is right and compensation is not to steep 

 

Yes, I was probably a bit premature on calling him a bust already, but I am quite concerned.

Look, the coaches should know what they're seeing.  They see him every day.  Is his footwork better? Is he seeing the field better? decision making?  Accuracy?

If they don't see a noticeable difference in the lead up to the season they really should bring in a legit back up.

[UntouchableCrew]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You keep repeating yourself and then say you didn’t say it

it’s been 1 day out of how many? 
There’s football talk around OTAs beyond shltting yourself every time someone tweets an incompletion 

You guys who take this so personally are strange to me. 

I never said I was writing him off or that he was destined to suck.

I said:

1) He was absolutely terrible last year, which he was by literally any quantifiable measure.

2) I was hopeful he'd be night and day from last year, because he needs to take a huge leap to pan out as our franchise QB and QBs usually make the biggest leap between years 1 and 2.

3) It's very discouraging that the early reports out of OTAs indicate he's had issues with accuracy and has been inconsistent in 11 on 11s. 

I stand by all of that. None of it is even controversial, IMO. 

The cries of "it's only June!" would be more meaningful if we didn't already have a September through January sample size of poor NFL play. The onus is on Zach to prove he's good.

Obviously, there's a long time to go between now and Week 1 against the Ravens. It's certainly possible Zach will improve a lot between now and then, certainly he'll get the reps. It's also possible he just had a bad day and has been killing it when the media isn't around.

But given his issues with accuracy and reading defenses last year I was hopeful that -- in shorts and shells with no real live pass rush -- he'd show up locked in to training camp with complete command of the offense having cleaned up his accuracy issues. That doesn't seem to be the case. It's not the end of the world, but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend everything is going great if it isn't. There are a plethora of homers around here happy to carry water for whatever young QB we have who isn't performing. I'm not gonna do that.

Blind faith doesn't make you a better fan, IMHO.

[JTJet]

8 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Not a call out post at all.  Just joking since @Gastineau Lives is out we need more people who say positive things about Zach engaged.  
 

It’s always nice try to explain jokes that flew like a lead balloon after the fact.   About halfway through I wish for the “do over - no joke” button.  

Fair. 

Zach Wilson makes the Pro Bowl this year as an alternate. 

There I said it. 

[docdhc]

On 6/9/2022 at 3:14 PM, ZachEY said:

Umm... No?

He had a good enough preseason for a rookie - sure.  But, actually good.  Not how I remember it.  I do remember getting pounced on for saying that I didn't think he was ready, and that I was disappointed a capable starting QB was not in camp.  He certainly improved over time, which was nice, and I acknowledged that.

He was very good against Green Bay and the Giants. People were very excited but then he looked completely different when the season started. 

[UntouchableCrew]

7 minutes ago, docdhc said:

He was very good against Green Bay and the Giants. People were very excited but then he looked completely different when the season started. 

My buddy who is a Packers fan texted me "Wilson looks like the real deal" after the Packers game. Not exactly how it played out in the regular season.

[JohnnyLV]

23 hours ago, bitonti said:

What exactly are his elite traits? 

he's not elite tall, he's not elite fast. He's not elite big. He's not elite durable.

He's not elite in any physical  measurable way 

elite accurate? Not at 55%

elite elusiveness? not holding the ball for 3 seconds an attempt (and 5 seconds per sack) 

What exactly is so elite about Zach Wilson? 

the only elite traits he has exhibited is elite excuse making from his fans and of course his uncle, who is literally one of the elites who run the world, like Woody.  

You know we are not talking about a QB that was a reach at 2, we are talking about a QB that was going 2nd QB taken regardless of whether the Jets took him, the consensus #2 in a deep QB draft, a QB that SF traded up for (confirmed by Steve Young) and a QB that was actually #1 on several teams draft boards. He has MANY elite traits. If you just choose to ignore it and wallow in your hate that's on you

[FidelioJet]

22 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

You know we are not talking about a QB that was a reach at 2, we are talking about a QB that was going 2nd QB taken regardless of whether the Jets took him, the consensus #2 in a deep QB draft, a QB that SF traded up for (confirmed by Steve Young) and a QB that was actually #1 on several teams draft boards. He has MANY elite traits. If you just choose to ignore it and wallow in your hate that's on you

This is fact...He was the consensus #2 - Moreover, teams would have been willing to give up a fortune to come up to get him.   If Darnold was any good the Jets would have been in a great situation (although if Darnold was any good they wouldn't have been picking 2)

But he does have to fix this accuracy thing.  It's really concerning.  I heard he was still throwing behind receivers on crossing routes this week.  I mean these are 10 yard ins - he shouldn't still be doing that.

As many know I loved this kid coming out - but I have to admit I am truly worried right now.

[Jet Nut]

On 6/10/2022 at 4:49 PM, bitonti said:

What exactly are his elite traits? 

he's not elite tall, he's not elite fast. He's not elite big. He's not elite durable.

He's not elite in any physical  measurable way 

elite accurate? Not at 55%

What exactly is exit tall?  He's almost 6' 3", what would 6' 4" or taller mean?  Absolutely nothing 

How about elite big?  Hes gained weight after his rookie season, so what now?  

What was elite about Steve Young's height or weight?  Hes in the HOF

How about completion %?  Young, Elway, Allen etc all had awful comp %'s

Simms missed an entire season with a knee and then 14 games with injuries to his and and more then went on to be indestructible.  J Fields missed the end of the season, anyone concerned at this point?  ZW has had one season where he missed 5 games, doesnt make him injury prone.  

You left out arm talent interestingly

He played one season, with a horrid support group.  Stop already.

[Supersonic]

It kinda feels like people are - not TRULY - expecting Zach and the Jets to fail - but are unwilling to get on board, because the pain and sadness of continued failure is simply too much for them to endure.  I wholeheartedly understand that.  But I won't succumb to it.  I want to be happy.  I want to enjoy the positive changes with hope - not despair.  I want to be excited about the upcoming season and enjoy the thoughts of potential grandeur - not wallowing in misery about potential misfires and failure.

Here's some food for thought.  Brady and Gronk are great players, but they also have great chemistry and sharp insight into one another.  From my perspective, Zach was beginning to find that with Elijah Moore late last season.  He hasn't really had the opportunity to sync-up with Corey Davis yet.  We don't know what may develop between Zach and Garrett Wilson and either of his TE's - or Breece Hall for that matter.  Maybe accuracy will work itself out through familiarity and consistency.  Maybe not.  But to say Zach has already proven through recent OTA's that his accuracy hasn't improved is absolutely ludicrous.

[Bungaman]

Maybe because he has two new tight ends, one new rookie receiver, one WR returning from injury, one new rookie RB - it might affect his accuracy. No word if all of these new targets are running crisp correct routes, either.

[FidelioJet]

On 6/10/2022 at 4:49 PM, bitonti said:

What exactly are his elite traits? 

he's not elite tall, he's not elite fast. He's not elite big. He's not elite durable.

He's not elite in any physical  measurable way 

elite accurate? Not at 55%

elite elusiveness? not holding the ball for 3 seconds an attempt (and 5 seconds per sack) 

What exactly is so elite about Zach Wilson? 

the only elite traits he has exhibited is elite excuse making from his fans and of course his uncle, who is literally one of the elites who run the world, like Woody.  

Come on.

You don't have to like him but his natural talent is undeniable.   He wasn't good his rookie year and there's no-one that will say otherwise...but to discount the kids natural skill-set is just being blind or a troll.  Not sure which one you are.

His arm strength, release speed, release angles, pocket movement are all in-line with the best QB's in the game. And yes even his size is  in-line with many of the best QB's in the league (i.e Mahomes and Rodgers )

Zach's issues are mental.  Can he control an NFL offense, can he think quickly enough to go through his reads, can his footwork align with the pace of an NFL offense.  All of those things are massive question marks and are, frankly, not looking good right now.

But to question his skill-set is just flat out wrong.  If he can figure out the mental part of the game he's a top 5 NFL QB.  While I agree, that's unlikely to happen - his natural talent is undeniable.

This was an innacruate and unnesarily nasty post.

[jetspenguin]

I must say, as one of the biggest ZW fans on this board....
I must take accountability as it's clear now Z. Wilson is a bust.  These OTA's have shown me the following:

1. He's not accurate nor will he ever will be
2. His decision making skill set can't possibly be bette

Either way, let's get Jimmy G and win 10 games.
 

This is a joke right? Sarcasm maybe?

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[CanadaSteve]

On 6/11/2022 at 8:03 AM, FidelioJet said:

I think the biggest issue is I've heard is he's still indecisive.  That's a problem.  That was his biggest problem and if that hasn't gotten better his footwork and accuracy never will.

My suggestion?

Stop listening to OTA reports from every Tom, Dick and Beatnik chumming the waters to attract a ravenous fanbase in order to generate thousands of clicks and make a few bucks.  

Watch the last pre-season game and the first two games of the season.  We will be able to tell A LOT by how many points we do/don't put up after the additions we made to the roster.  

[FidelioJet]

10 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

This is a joke right? Sarcasm maybe?

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.
 

To be honest, I"m not really sure anymore.  

Still throwing behind guys on 10 yard ins - is REALLY worrisome.  I mean jeez, how can he get better if he can't even fix the very basic problems like throwing an accurate 10 yard down and in?

But, I know we're talking about 20 or so passes in OTA's and it's stupid to care yet. and I still love his upside.

I've been supporting this kid and I'm tired of having to defend missing throws that high school QB's would be benched for.

So, I dont' know if that was serious or not...

 

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

But, I know we're talking about 20 or so passes in OTA's and it's stupid to care yet. and I still love his upside.

 

No we're talking about 20 or so passes Connor saw in 4 practices he attended out of 9 weeks of OTAs where he threw hundreds of passes

What he got right in his report was how little it means it will cause hysteria.  So of course he put it out there

 

[FidelioJet]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No we're talking about 20 or so passes Connor saw in 4 practices he attended out of 9 weeks of OTAs where he threw hundreds of passes

What he got right in his report was how little it means it will cause hysteria.  So of course he put it out there

 

This is true and I really am going mostly off Connor's recent podcast.  It was very worrisome and I probably need to relax a bit...But if you listen to that podcast I think even you would be a bit concerned about Zach.

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is true and I really am going mostly off Connor's recent podcast.  It was very worrisome and I probably need to relax a bit...But if you listen to that podcast I think even you would be a bit concerned about Zach.

I'm concerned in that with a rookie QB who struggled like rookie QBs do, as all the other rookie QBs did, we dont know what we have so we dont have proof that he will work out.  

 

[slats]

26 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

To be honest, I"m not really sure anymore.  

Still throwing behind guys on 10 yard ins - is REALLY worrisome.  I mean jeez, how can he get better if he can't even fix the very basic problems like throwing an accurate 10 yard down and in?

But, I know we're talking about 20 or so passes in OTA's and it's stupid to care yet. and I still love his upside.

I've been supporting this kid and I'm tired of having to defend missing throws that high school QB's would be benched for.

So, I dont' know if that was serious or not...

 

I can’t get too up or down based on a handful of plays that I’m only familiar with thru the 140 character takes of others. If I’m gonna get up or down, it’ll be after I see him for myself in the preseason. 

[Sammybighead]

On 6/11/2022 at 9:25 AM, UntouchableCrew said:

You guys who take this so personally are strange to me. 

I never said I was writing him off or that he was destined to suck.

I said:

1) He was absolutely terrible last year, which he was by literally any quantifiable measure.

2) I was hopeful he'd be night and day from last year, because he needs to take a huge leap to pan out as our franchise QB and QBs usually make the biggest leap between years 1 and 2.

3) It's very discouraging that the early reports out of OTAs indicate he's had issues with accuracy and has been inconsistent in 11 on 11s. 

I stand by all of that. None of it is even controversial, IMO. 

The cries of "it's only June!" would be more meaningful if we didn't already have a September through January sample size of poor NFL play. The onus is on Zach to prove he's good.

Obviously, there's a long time to go between now and Week 1 against the Ravens. It's certainly possible Zach will improve a lot between now and then, certainly he'll get the reps. It's also possible he just had a bad day and has been killing it when the media isn't around.

But given his issues with accuracy and reading defenses last year I was hopeful that -- in shorts and shells with no real live pass rush -- he'd show up locked in to training camp with complete command of the offense having cleaned up his accuracy issues. That doesn't seem to be the case. It's not the end of the world, but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend everything is going great if it isn't. There are a plethora of homers around here happy to carry water for whatever young QB we have who isn't performing. I'm not gonna do that.

Blind faith doesn't make you a better fan, IMHO.

Well said and excellent points. Yes, your observations of zach are based in fact and should not just be dismissed. 

All I'll say is this: another fact is nobody on this board has the powers of foresight to definitively tell us what zach is right now, no matter how much they truly believe it. What I'm asking my fellow jets brethren to embrace is the situation and stop focusing on the player. We finally have a situation where we should know definitively what we have by season end in zach. We have rarely if ever been in this situation with a young qb. I'm well beyond rooting for players individually (I'll never buy a jersey again), I root for the team. And the team is in great shape. If zach stinks, we'll be in a position where we can draft a new qb or actual entice a veteran to want to come here. If he's great, all the better. 

Flipping out (positive or negative) about passes in June is only driving yourself nuts. Of course I'd love to hear he's smoking our defense daily, but right now, it's not happening. However, our overall team building situation is still looking good, and that's something we can all embrace at this point.

[bitonti]

14 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Come on.

You don't have to like him but his natural talent is undeniable.   He wasn't good his rookie year and there's no-one that will say otherwise...but to discount the kids natural skill-set is just being blind or a troll.  Not sure which one you are.

His arm strength, release speed, release angles, pocket movement are all in-line with the best QB's in the game. And yes even his size is  in-line with many of the best QB's in the league (i.e Mahomes and Rodgers )

Zach's issues are mental.  Can he control an NFL offense, can he think quickly enough to go through his reads, can his footwork align with the pace of an NFL offense.  All of those things are massive question marks and are, frankly, not looking good right now.

But to question his skill-set is just flat out wrong.  If he can figure out the mental part of the game he's a top 5 NFL QB.  While I agree, that's unlikely to happen - his natural talent is undeniable.

This was an innacruate and unnesarily nasty post.

The only skill that ZW has that can be proven to be elite is arm strength. Proven with numbers. He threw a 60 mph ball last year. 

Every other trait he has is average or below 

[bitonti]

16 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

What exactly is exit tall?  He's almost 6' 3", what would 6' 4" or taller mean?  Absolutely nothing 

How about elite big?  Hes gained weight after his rookie season, so what now?  

What was elite about Steve Young's height or weight?  Hes in the HOF

How about completion %?  Young, Elway, Allen etc all had awful comp %'s

Simms missed an entire season with a knee and then 14 games with injuries to his and and more then went on to be indestructible.  J Fields missed the end of the season, anyone concerned at this point?  ZW has had one season where he missed 5 games, doesnt make him injury prone.  

You left out arm talent interestingly

He played one season, with a horrid support group.  Stop already.

Both Steve Young and John Elway ran outstanding 40s 

ZW didn't run at all 

I'm not saying that ZW has to be elite everywhere. It's that, except for the arm strength, he's elite nowhere 

[Jet Nut]

13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Both Steve Young and John Elway ran outstanding 40s 

ZW didn't run at all 

I'm not saying that ZW has to be elite everywhere. It's that, except for the arm strength, he's elite nowhere 

Steve Young was undersized, had an arm that made Pennington look like a cannon.  After 4 seasons with the loaded 49rs maxed out at 53.7 completion percentage. Through in his USFL experience.  
Elway had a 47% comp in his first season, didn’t get above the 50’s comp% until year 9.  

Not insinuating in any way that these weren’t great QBs just less than one full season doesn’t give a window into what he will or won’t become 

[Hal N of Provo]

 

[Hal N of Provo]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

The only skill that ZW has that can be proven to be elite is arm strength. Proven with numbers. He threw a 60 mph ball last year. 

Every other trait he has is average or below 

I didn’t know this so I looked it up.  A thread on Reddit said Zach had 59.99mph on a throw and that it was the fastest throw in the NFL for the season at that point.  
 

Mahomes at the combine has the fastest throw at 60 mph and fastest game throw is Josh Allen at 62mph in a 2018 game.  
 

That’s really random non-primary internet data, but better than I’d have expected.  

[Jetsfan80]

28 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

 

 

Credit where its due:  Nice looking, professional play.  Stepped up in the pocket nicely.  Granted, that's easier to do when wearing the red shirt, but that was a confident-looking throw.