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On 6/9/2022 at 10:16 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

I mean…did you see what Houston was able to get in the deal for Watson?  

Honestly, how good do you think either of these players would have been on the Jets? Poor talent, poor depth, poor coaching, poor drafting - does anyone really think either player would have been considered a winner? Do you think the Watson trade would have been worth the same 3 picks?

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On 6/10/2022 at 4:16 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

I mean…did you see what Houston was able to get in the deal for Watson?  

Shows the rarity of bad QBs suddenly turning it around. Why pony up 3 firsts (plus) for a FQB when you can just wait a year or two for any stiff to become Josh Allen v2.0?

And the Browns were around middle of the pack in terms of QB play and they still ponied in spite of the off the field stuff. Such is the importance and difficulty of finding a FQB.

If our current QB fails Jets need to try a multi-prong approach. No more drafting a “QB of the future” every three years and then “protect his confidence” by surrounding him with trash as “competition.” I want a drafted rookie and a vet FA with upside while also trying to swing for fences on a Matt Stafford/Russ Wilson. All of these can — and should — be pursued in parallel.

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22 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

Honestly, how good do you think either of these players would have been on the Jets? Poor talent, poor depth, poor coaching, poor drafting - does anyone really think either player would have been considered a winner? Do you think the Watson trade would have been worth the same 3 picks?


Yes, I still think Watson would have been very good here and could have potentially been traded for more than Adams got moved for.  Because QBs are not held back by circumstances at the level many Jets fans believe.

And I dunno if you’ve been paying attention, but the Texans are a trash organization.  They moved Hopkins for peanuts and even AFTER that Watson had a top tier season.  

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:


Yes, I still think Watson would have been very good here and could have potentially been traded for more than Adams got moved for.  Because QBs are not held back by circumstances at the level many Jets fans believe.

And I dunno if you’ve been paying attention, but the Texans are a trash organization.  They moved Hopkins for peanuts and even AFTER that Watson had a top tier season.  

Yes, but Watson had some good/great receivers and a pretty damn good offensive coach for a while. I think a lot of fans think that a potentially grate QB can come into any org and win it all - quite frankly, it is hard to say how good/bad Watson or Maholmes would have been had they come here. I have seen too many potentially good QBs ruined by the Jets - Sanchez was never the same after the beating he took by the Ravens and then he tried to do too much until he was just ruined. Had he walked into a situation as good as KC (good team good coach) - who knows what he was capable of? I don't think Maholmes talent (at all), but who knows how good.

Transitioning into the NFL is not easy - get going down a bad path, and you just free-fall IMO...

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22 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

Yes, but Watson had some good/great receivers and a pretty damn good offensive coach for a while. I think a lot of fans think that a potentially grate QB can come into any org and win it all - quite frankly, it is hard to say how good/bad Watson or Maholmes would have been had they come here. I have seen too many potentially good QBs ruined by the Jets - Sanchez was never the same after the beating he took by the Ravens and then he tried to do too much until he was just ruined. Had he walked into a situation as good as KC (good team good coach) - who knows what he was capable of? I don't think Maholmes talent (at all), but who knows how good.

Transitioning into the NFL is not easy - get going down a bad path, and you just free-fall IMO...

 

Not hard for me to say.  Mahomes would have been a top 5 QB here and Watson would have been top 12 or so.  Because they are both excellent QB's and aren't hindered greatly by a bad system or bad/mediocre weapons.  Mahomes wouldn't have won a SB or an MVP here probably, but he'd still be elite. 

It's as if people learned nothing from Sam Darnold.  Trash QB's are trash QB's everywhere, even when their RB is Christian McCaffrey and they have good WR's.  Conversely, good QB's are good everywhere.

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26 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

Yes, but Watson had some good/great receivers and a pretty damn good offensive coach for a while. I think a lot of fans think that a potentially grate QB can come into any org and win it all - quite frankly, it is hard to say how good/bad Watson or Maholmes would have been had they come here. I have seen too many potentially good QBs ruined by the Jets - Sanchez was never the same after the beating he took by the Ravens and then he tried to do too much until he was just ruined. Had he walked into a situation as good as KC (good team good coach) - who knows what he was capable of? I don't think Maholmes talent (at all), but who knows how good.

Transitioning into the NFL is not easy - get going down a bad path, and you just free-fall IMO...

The problem with this approach is it never leads to any conclusions. Good QB? Maybe it’s his surroundings. Bad QB? Same thing. GMs don’t have a way to evaluate players under laboratory conditions with all variables controlled and nor do we.

My simple evaluation model has been pretty durn accurate — good football players play good football. Yes, it missed the Josh Allen turnaround but screamed “move on” for dozens of failed QBs over the years. If you judge any model by it’s failings, they all fail. I’ll stick with it until someone demonstrates a more accurate one.

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4 minutes ago, jgb said:

The problem with this approach is it never leads to any conclusions. Good QB? Maybe it’s his surroundings. Bad QB? Same thing.

My simple evaluation model has been pretty durn accurate — good football players play good football. Yes, it missed the Josh Allen turnaround but screamed “move on” for dozens of failed QBs over the years. If you judge any model by it’s failings, they all fail. I’ll stick with it until someone demonstrates a more accurate one.

 

People here certainly have a blindspot for good QB's who were thrust into bad situations and still succeeded.  Like, Matthew Stafford's entire career in Detroit. 

The easy response to that is always "HE HAD MEGATRON or HE DIDN'T WIN TEH PLAYOFF GAMES", while ignoring that he was still, statistically, a top 10 or 12 QB basically his entire career and long after Calvin Johnson retired. 

His success with the Rams, thus, was no surprise whatsoever.  Having a good team around you merely takes a very good QB and helps him look great.  He was still a very good QB that anyone would want to build around.

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

People here certainly have a blindspot for good QB's who were thrust into bad situations and still succeeded.  Like, Matthew Stafford's entire career in Detroit. 

The easy response to that is always "HE HAD MEGATRON or HE DIDN'T WIN TEH PLAYOFF GAMES", while ignoring that he was still, statistically, a top 10 or 12 QB basically his entire career and long after Calvin Johnson retired. 

His success with the Rams, thus, was no surprise whatsoever.  Having a good team around you merely takes a very good QB and helps him look great.  He was still a very good QB that anyone would want to build around.

Or my favorite “How many games did Watson win last year???” This is said by the same crew who excuse our QB’s performance on supporting cast.

And that’s the problem. It is an untestable hypothesis. Probably by design by its purveyors.

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11 minutes ago, jgb said:

Or my favorite “How many games did Watson win last year???” This is said by the same crew who excuse our QB’s performance on supporting cast.

And that’s the problem. It is an untestable hypothesis. Probably by design by its purveyors.

He had 6 times as many allegations of sexual misconduct  than he had wins. HAHA, maybe if he focused on football more than his aggressive genitals? He would,.,, wut?  HAHA.. madness

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5 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

He had 6 times as many allegations of sexual misconduct  than he had wins. HAHA, maybe if he focused on football more than his aggressive genitals? He would,.,, wut?  HAHA.. madness

He should’ve taken advice from Charlie Sheen when asked why he used the services of call girls when he could get any number of girls he wanted without effort. His response: “I don’t pay them to sleep with me, I pay them to leave afterward.”

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

He should’ve taken advice from Charlie Sheen when asked why he used the services of call girls when he could get any number of girls he wanted without effort. His response: “I don’t pay them to sleep with me, I pay them to leave afterward.”

WINNING!!!!  

My less than clear point is I wonder how much of that bad season may have been contributed to his inability to convey his needs. I guess. 

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10 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

WINNING!!!!  

My less than clear point is I wonder how much of that bad season may have been contributed to his inability to convey his needs. I guess. 


He played with anticipation and quick release. Driving the ball and delivering on target again and again.

Oh, you meant football.

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The footage of him working the phones for an hour to trade up for JJ is amazing. Real effort and aggression to get what he wants - great balance when you consider how disciplined he has been in free agency. 

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2 hours ago, Larz said:

C.J. Mosley$17,500,000

Are you attempting to pin Mosley on Douglas now?

Lawson missed his only season here with a fluke injury. Not productive, of course, but it's not the same as someone who plays but plays badly and further cost the team multiple 1st rounders for the privilege.

Davis also with the injuries, but it could've been worse, e.g. Golladay, whose cap # is just north of $21MM this year (and again next year), who put up about the same yards, and no TDs, in 5 more starts / 50% more snaps. 

JFM is fine; not an extension I'd have handed out, let alone at his peak value following a couple really good weeks. Weeks/months earlier or later would've been far less. He did the same thing with Ryan Griffin in '19, and waited too long on Berrios as well, which probably doubled his contract extension cost.

Given enough time, GMs all make signings they liked and signings they regretted, but Adams was an all-time great trade.

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